Ranking California residency programs?

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blessed.pod

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From my experience during externships and talking with other students...I can say that the majority of Northern California programs are much better (in terms of clinic experience, diversity of surgeries, and Didactics) than the SoCal programs.

Does anyone else agree? (don't get me wrong there are some good programs in SoCal like Scrips Mercy and Chino)
 
I think Northern California KAISER programs are the programs to go after in Norcal. Norcal Kaisers usually take everything in terms of pathology, including trauma. Scripps and Chino are also good programs too- both do Kaiser rotations for about a year and have strong rotations outside of the kaiser system. SoCal Kaiser still has a strong ortho presence in some hospitals so while it is still excellent training, it may not be AS comprehensive as the Northern Kaisers. If you go to Scripps, choose the kaiser sac track. I have heard that rotation through kaiser sac is awesome.

Other Northern CA programs are mediocre at best. Some may do a Kaiser rotation, but imo I feel like their surgical training prior to their kaiser rotation isn't that great.
 
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You might get better answers on this in attending forum or in residency/clerk reviews stick search.

Scripps Mercy is not what it was years ago. Dr Green is not going to be there forever.
Losing one attending doesn't seem like much, but for a program that takes 12 total residents and has a pretty low number of attendings to begin with for a 4/yr program, losing one of the big ones is impactful (see: West Penn losing Mendicino, Kaiser Walnut losing Hamilton and Blitz, etc)

The NoCal Kaisers are mostly adequate, but some are MUCH better than others. You can't lump them in as same/similar. Oakland (was Walnut Creek) has the best attendings and cases and is definitely the one you want if you're an elite student... typically won't be too competitive for it if not.
 
Feli said:
Kaiser Walnut losing Hamilton and Blitz, etc

The NoCal Kaisers are mostly adequate, but some are MUCH better than others. You can't lump them in as same/similar. Oakland (was Walnut Creek) has the best attendings and cases and is definitely the one you want if you're an elite student... typically won't be too competitive for it if not.
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Kaiser walnut also recently lost schuberth (retirement)
 
iridocyclitiss said:
Kaiser walnut also recently lost schuberth (retirement)
Click to expand...
Yeah, that may not be the worst thing... good surgeon and thinker, but you just can't act and treat ppl the way Schu and Rush and etc do anymore (unless you want basically no friends and to know the CMO or chief of surgery on first-name basis and not in a good way). If most new attendings had that arrogance and abrasiveness, they'd be in real trouble. It's a different era, though.

...they have trained and picked up some other good docs, though. Patel is very good. One of my classmates is big there now, and they've actually gained more than they've lost. Hamilton and Schuberth were monsters in different ways, though. I can't believe Hamilton left such a nice place for a hole in Texas, but who knows, lol.

I would say that's probably a definite top 5 or 10 program yearly, could argue as top DPM residency... esp with Grant residency now unfortunately out of the mix. Kaiser's main weakness is same as most others: inbreeding, but they are more diverse and better depth chart of teachers than many other top programs. I think when you get to that level of Kaiser Oak, Inova, UPMC, Swedish, former Grant, etc all are fantastic.... kinda just depends what the student wants for training type/emphasis.
 
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Feli said:
I would say that's probably a definite top 5 or 10 program yearly, could argue as top DPM residency... esp with Grant residency now unfortunately out of the mix. Kaiser's main weakness is same as most others: inbreeding, but they are more diverse and better depth chart of teachers than many other top programs. I think when you get to that level of Kaiser Oak, Inova, UPMC, Swedish, former Grant, etc all are fantastic.... kinda just depends what the student wants for training type/emphasis.
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Absolutely agree with you there. Oakland is excellent. And absolutely agree, kaisers favor their residents which is good and bad. Definitely a weakness, but the pro is definitely their volume. But like those programs you mentioned they all have great volume.
 
I know a lot of Chino residents and Grant residents have ended up at associate mills anyways


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Feli said:
You might get better answers on this in attending forum or in residency/clerk reviews stick search.

Scripps Mercy is not what it was years ago. Dr Green is not going to be there forever.
Losing one attending doesn't seem like much, but for a program that takes 12 total residents and has a pretty low number of attendings to begin with for a 4/yr program, losing one of the big ones is impactful (see: West Penn losing Mendicino, Kaiser Walnut losing Hamilton and Blitz, etc)

The NoCal Kaisers are mostly adequate, but some are MUCH better than others. You can't lump them in as same/similar. Oakland (was Walnut Creek) has the best attendings and cases and is definitely the one you want if you're an elite student... typically won't be too competitive for it if not.
Click to expand...
thats crazy to think that 1 attending can change the vibes of a program. I hear Scott and White lost one of its top attending to the new Texas school.
 
blessed.pod said:
is that a good or bad thing? lol

at least they find jobs after, right?
Click to expand...

You’re having a hard time understanding if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that someone found a job for 120k after 7 years post grad and 300k additional debt? At least they found a job?

Okie dokie…
 
Pronation said:
You’re having a hard time understanding if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that someone found a job for 120k after 7 years post grad and 300k additional debt? At least they found a job?

Okie dokie…
Click to expand...
stop roasting the pod students, I don't want another thread locked lol. Unless its on their terrible total toenail replacement technique. Then by all means, send them to your total toenail fellowship nail jail for remediation.


blessed.pod said:
is that a good or bad thing? lol

at least they find jobs after, right?
Click to expand...
Sarcastic for sure. If you go to the attending forum and read a few of the job offer ones, you'll be surprised at how scary some of these offers are...

@Feli made a post a while back listing off how to get a good job and it consisted of good residency training and LUCK. I know my seniors all found great jobs, but they had to sift through a lot of terrible offers and hope that their application was picked out of 100's of others.
 
Feli said:
You might get better answers on this in attending forum or in residency/clerk reviews stick search.

Scripps Mercy is not what it was years ago. Dr Green is not going to be there forever.
Losing one attending doesn't seem like much, but for a program that takes 12 total residents and has a pretty low number of attendings to begin with for a 4/yr program, losing one of the big ones is impactful (see: West Penn losing Mendicino, Kaiser Walnut losing Hamilton and Blitz, etc)

The NoCal Kaisers are mostly adequate, but some are MUCH better than others. You can't lump them in as same/similar. Oakland (was Walnut Creek) has the best attendings and cases and is definitely the one you want if you're an elite student... typically won't be too competitive for it if not.
Click to expand...
blessed.pod said:
thats crazy to think that 1 attending can change the vibes of a program. I hear Scott and White lost one of its top attending to the new Texas school.
Click to expand...

Agree with Feli's sentiments on Kaiser programs. Thoroughly discussed that connections matter (the most) and Bay has the attendings most prominent nationally. All KP in Nor Cal has similar case volume and trauma load. North Bay is a sleeper and Danny Choung gives residents more hands-on experience on TARs (very high volume) than probably any program in the country. Good balance of old and young attendings. Santa Clara has the best "lifestyle"/"work-life balance" and changes there (Weinraub --> Derner) will be a net positive for resident cut time.

Disagree with negative changes at Scripps post Dr. Green. Case volume is constantly increasing with access to the 3 largest systems (Scripps - Sharp - Kaiser) in SD. Level 1 trauma center with no ortho residents. Although retired, Green still does academics (biomechanics, and his case vol was never crazy).

Scott and White losing Shibuya takes it from a solid program to a middling one.
 
I know a few residents at Scripps and would also disagree with Feli’s assessment that it’s gone downhill since Green left. I still think you get really really good training based on what they tell me especially if you do the Kaiser Sacramento track.

If you’re looking at Cal programs in general, might as well take a look at Legacy, Swedish and Franciscan. I’d say those 3 programs are better than anything in Socal. I’d put them up there with Kaiser Oakland based on the pathology they see and the volume they get.

I think over the years, certain programs have gone down hill so it’s important to keep up to date. For example a couple years ago I’d have ranked UPMC as a great program but with them losing their ortho rotation and Burns, I wouldn’t consider it a top tier program anymore. So just always keep that in mind when people are telling you about programs ie attendings come and go which change the quality of training you’re getting sometimes for better but sometimes for worse
 
Feli said:
Yeah, that may not be the worst thing... good surgeon and thinker, but you just can't act and treat ppl the way Schu and Rush and etc do anymore (unless you want basically no friends and to know the CMO or chief of surgery on first-name basis and not in a good way). If most new attendings had that arrogance and abrasiveness, they'd be in real trouble. It's a different era, though.

...they have trained and picked up some other good docs, though. Patel is very good. One of my classmates is big there now, and they've actually gained more than they've lost. Hamilton and Schuberth were monsters in different ways, though. I can't believe Hamilton left such a nice place for a hole in Texas, but who knows, lol.

I would say that's probably a definite top 5 or 10 program yearly, could argue as top DPM residency... esp with Grant residency now unfortunately out of the mix. Kaiser's main weakness is same as most others: inbreeding, but they are more diverse and better depth chart of teachers than many other top programs. I think when you get to that level of Kaiser Oak, Inova, UPMC, Swedish, former Grant, etc all are fantastic.... kinda just depends what the student wants for training type/emphasis.
Click to expand...
Hamilton lives in New Braunfels and drives to South Texas lol...
 
GandhiCut said:
Agree with Feli's sentiments on Kaiser programs. Thoroughly discussed that connections matter (the most) and Bay has the attendings most prominent nationally. All KP in Nor Cal has similar case volume and trauma load. North Bay is a sleeper and Danny Choung gives residents more hands-on experience on TARs (very high volume) than probably any program in the country. Good balance of old and young attendings. Santa Clara has the best "lifestyle"/"work-life balance" and changes there (Weinraub --> Derner) will be a net positive for resident cut time.
Click to expand...

Kaiser has all these prominent DPMs who are pretty smart and do a ton of volume. Only to make 275-280K salary with no productivity bonuses. Sounds idiotic.
 
Retrograde_Nail said:
Kaiser has all these prominent DPMs who are pretty smart and do a ton of volume. Only to make 275-280K salary with no productivity bonuses. Sounds idiotic.
Click to expand...

I’m sure administrators also know that if any of these DPMs put in their notice that they can easily and immediately replace them.
 
GreenHousePub said:
Also the programs at LA Downtown Medical Center and West Covina are shutting down. I don't think they are taking anymore residents.
Click to expand...
Is there confirmation on this? They are still on the CASPR list of programs...
 
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