Ranking for podiatric medical school.

[Dr_Feelgood]

So why the fall from grace (if such a fall has taken or is taking place)?

Two reasons, one is my guess, like many schools they are not being as selective as the once where. Therefore, the educaiton is not at fault the students are.

The second reason which is straight from the mouth of a Temple grad is depending on the students luck, they can have very few opportunities outside of the Temple system. Depending on yoru rotation schedule, a student may only have 2 months of external rotations before CRIP. Therefore, you are not exposed to outside influences. In this area, the program is letting down the students.

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[Dr_Feelgood]

From the pods I have talked too, Temple has not/is not falling from grace. The majority of advice I have heard is that Des Moines is outstanding for your first two years and will more than likely put you well above your other school peers in the basic sciences. Temple has a strong slant on podiatric surgery and has strong residency connections and would be a solid chance from that perspective. The other schools (Scholl, Ohio, Barry, etc.) are okay and produce successful doctors but in general temple and des moines seem to have a stronger rep. The docs I have talked to, wouldn't/couldn't comment on AZPOD b/c it was so new but things seem to be fine. They also said the only schools that would avoid are Cali and NY.

Thats mostly what I hear from the Pods I talk with in my area. I will just now be applying to schools this coming up cycle and will hopefully have my personal experience to input but I thought for now I would share the advice I have been receiving. I also wanted to defend Temple a little since it seems like the students from that school do not frequent the board anymore.

This is what I have been told also. The reasoning behind it has always been that Temple and NYCPM have extremely busy clinics. They only issue is that you need to get outside of the schools influence at times to learn new prospectives on podiatry. This is where Scholl, AZPOD and DMU have a major advantage. If everyone at your school loves procedure A, and you interview at a program that loves B; you had better be on top of your literature review to defend your opinion.

I think it is funny that it is always okay to pick on Barry, OCPM, NYCPM, and CCPM but when Temple, is brought to the mattress, people are less harsh. My opinion is no school is above criticism b/c no school is perfect. I am more impressed w/ schools that are always looking to improve themselves more than the "reputation" they have. CCPM has done major work and I bet they will greatly improve their program. And I hate to beat a dead horse but Scholl and DMU are very critical of their own flaws. They even list strategic plans on the websites. I don't see the same things come out of "the Harvard of podiatry." Maybe b/c their feces has no malodor.

 

[Dmayor22]

You are right. All schools have their faults. Feelgood, you are much more involved with people who would be able to actually talk about these matters with actualy info behind their statements. Do you make the comments about Temple not admitting their flaws bc you have had discussions with other people in the profession or is it more from students?

I feel this board is a tremendous tool and valuable resource but at times(aka almost always) dominated by DMU students with a few students from other schools sprinkled throughout conversation so other schools do not always get a fair shake on the board.

With that being said, I would love to hear comments from people who have been doing externships or current residents what you think of your peers from other schools that you have been working along side of?

 

[NatCh]

From the pods I have talked too, Temple has not/is not falling from grace. The majority of advice I have heard is that Des Moines is outstanding for your first two years and will more than likely put you well above your other school peers in the basic sciences. Temple has a strong slant on podiatric surgery and has strong residency connections and would be a solid chance from that perspective. The other schools (Scholl, Ohio, Barry, etc.) are okay and produce successful doctors but in general temple and des moines seem to have a stronger rep. The docs I have talked to, wouldn't/couldn't comment on AZPOD b/c it was so new but things seem to be fine. They also said the only schools that would avoid are Cali and NY.

Thats mostly what I hear from the Pods I talk with in my area. I will just now be applying to schools this coming up cycle and will hopefully have my personal experience to input but I thought for now I would share the advice I have been receiving. I also wanted to defend Temple a little since it seems like the students from that school do not frequent the board anymore.

Interesting, when I was in school CCPM was in the so-called top-tier. Out here in the western US the majority of the podiatrists I meet are graduates of the CA school. I'm sure that's because people who lived out west prior to school wanted to stay in the west for school, then wanted to practice out west. Could it possibly have gone downhill so far? I have met some outstanding docs who went to CCPM.

It would seem to me that if you wanted to practice in a certain region then you may want to go to a school in that region just for the connections you could make.

Nat

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Fewer Temple students talking up their school on SDN perhaps?

That's because we have more important things to do.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Two reasons, one is my guess, like many schools they are not being as selective as the once where. Therefore, the educaiton is not at fault the students are.

This was true in past years but Last year and this years incoming class have much higher entrance stats. In fact, the class of 2011 has the highest entrance stats ever. 36% of the applicants were rejected and the class had no problem being filled with qualified students. So in the past bad students could have created a bad view of Temple but that is changing. I wouldn't throw in the towel on Temple yet. Talking with upper classmen, the opportunities are Huge at Temple for great residencies and clinical experience. THe didactic learning is strong also.
The main point when trying to rank Podiatry schools is everyone ranks schools on different standards and says they re the best because of this and ignores other things where others are better. It's kind of silly sometimes but if it helps your ego, then oK. I'm not saying that you shouldn't look at advantages and disadvantages of each school but everyone has different qualities they want out of a school so things can become arbitrary.

 

[DrNdogg]

Interesting, when I was in school CCPM was in the so-called top-tier. Out here in the western US the majority of the podiatrists I meet are graduates of the CA school. I'm sure that's because people who lived out west prior to school wanted to stay in the west for school, then wanted to practice out west. Could it possibly have gone downhill so far? I have met some outstanding docs who went to CCPM.

It would seem to me that if you wanted to practice in a certain region then you may want to go to a school in that region just for the connections you could make.

Nat

The reason CCPM (now called CSPM) went downhill for a while was because of a great uncertainty with the school. It fell into financial trouble and we lost the campus. Since then, we have merged with Samuel Merritt College, hired new profs, and gotten some of the good ones back. Our board passing rate is steadily climbing back to where it originally was, and standards for incoming students are on the rise. When I applied two years ago, the previous years average MCAT score was 18 and the GPA was a 3.0. Last years average incoming MCAT score was 25 and the GPA was 3.2. Now, I don't know where that "ranks" us but things are getting better all the time.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

In terms of rankings, what does it matter seeing as there's less than 10 of them?

 

[Ralph Ralph]

From what I have seen (DMU, Scholl, OCPM), OCPM definately stood out. Everything is new there, the campus is beautiful, students are excited, staff is very qualified to be there. The only thing I worry about is the weather. But, for all you pre-pods out there, you should take heart that OCPM just moved it's campus and made a lot of new changes that went into effect this year. So, many of the students on here don't know much about the new OCPM. I'm opting for OCPM as it seems to be the nicest school I've visited so far. Good luck school hunting!!!

 

[SportDPM]

I know that 36% of the applicants were rejected at temple, but how good is that? At dmu for the 2011 class there was around 300 who applied and only 59 got in. If my california math works, that is around 80% of the applicants who got rejected. I guess it is a good start, hopefully the applicant pool for podiatry around the united states keeps increasing.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The reason CCPM (now called CSPM) went downhill for a while was because of a great uncertainty with the school. It fell into financial trouble and we lost the campus. Since then, we have merged with Samuel Merritt College, hired new profs, and gotten some of the good ones back. Our board passing rate is steadily climbing back to where it originally was, and standards for incoming students are on the rise. When I applied two years ago, the previous years average MCAT score was 18 and the GPA was a 3.0. Last years average incoming MCAT score was 25 and the GPA was 3.2. Now, I don't know where that "ranks" us but things are getting better all the time.

They are stable and are making good changes (at least on paper)

 

[NatCh]

They are stable and are making good changes (at least on paper)

Wow, such changes! Is the school still in San Francisco?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

So in the past bad students could have created a bad view of Temple but that is changing. I wouldn't throw in the towel on Temple yet. Talking with upper classmen, the opportunities are Huge at Temple for great residencies and clinical experience. THe didactic learning is strong also.

I would hope that changes are being made. Really, Scholl and Temple have some of the coolest opportunities to bring more equality to podiatry. If they could/would fully integrate the programs w/ the MDs, which would be huge. I'm not trying to bash DMU, AZPOD, or Western, but integrating with the DO programs is like being buddying up with fat kid in the popular group; no matter what he is still the fat kid. Being tested and treated as equals with the MDs would be big.

As for the residency opportunities, everyone has equal opportunities if you are a good student and a hard worker. I have not seen as many Temple grads in the newer "power" programs. It may just be the recent classes or the school may have there big programs. I think that this maybe one area that is directly effected by the programs structure which severely limits the ability of Temple students to visit programs around the country. The school has close ties to regional programs but they need to adapt to the times and allow students more freedom.

The main point when trying to rank Podiatry schools is everyone ranks schools on different standards and says they re the best because of this and ignores other things where others are better. It's kind of silly sometimes but if it helps your ego, then oK. I'm not saying that you shouldn't look at advantages and disadvantages of each school but everyone has different qualities they want out of a school so things can become arbitrary.

I'm not sure if you were referring to my ego, but FYI my ego is fine. I think that when you rank schools or discuss this topic, it is important for pre-pods, present students, alumni, and the administrators to read. I don't think that all parties involved are aware of some of the issues that the students have with certain programs. The topic does not need to be attack and defend your school, but more of a constructive criticism of the programs and updates from current students on how the school maybe improving in those weak areas.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Wow, such changes! Is the school still in San Francisco?

No it is still in the ghetto of Oakland.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

I know that 36% of the applicants were rejected at temple, but how good is that? At dmu for the 2011 class there was around 300 who applied and only 59 got in. If my california math works, that is around 80% of the applicants who got rejected. I guess it is a good start, hopefully the applicant pool for podiatry around the united states keeps increasing.

You are leaving out a big variable in your math. You forgot about the people who chose to go elsewhere and weren't rejected at DMU. That changes everything so the 80% rejection number isn't correct.

 

[jonwill]

The reason CCPM (now called CSPM) went downhill for a while was because of a great uncertainty with the school. It fell into financial trouble and we lost the campus. Since then, we have merged with Samuel Merritt College, hired new profs, and gotten some of the good ones back. Our board passing rate is steadily climbing back to where it originally was, and standards for incoming students are on the rise. When I applied two years ago, the previous years average MCAT score was 18 and the GPA was a 3.0. Last years average incoming MCAT score was 25 and the GPA was 3.2. Now, I don't know where that "ranks" us but things are getting better all the time.

That is great news. I am from the west and interviewed at CCPM but they were having some serious issues. They had switched campuses twice in two years and the program had been put on probation. It sounds like they are bouncing back nicely.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

I would hope that changes are being made. Really, Scholl and Temple have some of the coolest opportunities to bring more equality to podiatry. If they could/would fully integrate the programs w/ the MDs, which would be huge. I'm not trying to bash DMU, AZPOD, or Western, but integrating with the DO programs is like being buddying up with fat kid in the popular group; no matter what he is still the fat kid. Being tested and treated as equals with the MDs would be big.

As for the residency opportunities, everyone has equal opportunities if you are a good student and a hard worker. I have not seen as many Temple grads in the newer "power" programs. It may just be the recent classes or the school may have there big programs. I think that this maybe one area that is directly effected by the programs structure which severely limits the ability of Temple students to visit programs around the country. The school has close ties to regional programs but they need to adapt to the times and allow students more freedom.





I'm not sure if you were referring to my ego, but FYI my ego is fine. I think that when you rank schools or discuss this topic, it is important for pre-pods, present students, alumni, and the administrators to read. I don't think that all parties involved are aware of some of the issues that the students have with certain programs. The topic does not need to be attack and defend your school, but more of a constructive criticism of the programs and updates from current students on how the school maybe improving in those weak areas.

I see what you're saying and I wasn't refering to your ego. It was in general for all those who are more interested in the ranking of their school so they can say I am the best rather than looking at the qualities of the school. Lots of people say their school is #1 just because they go there and that makes them feel good.

As for the residencies I know that a lot of people at Temple pick east coast residencies to apply because they are already from the east coast. The majority of Temple students seem to come from the east coast. I am one of the odd balls from the west coast. We have students at many fine programs out here and elswhere in the country.

Temple isn't perfect but has a lot of great qualities and opportunities. There are always improvements to be made. We may not take classes with the MDs but talking to my professors who teach the MDs they say they basically teach the same stuff to them as us. It might be modified here or their if it pertains to the boards. My teachers from the MD program actually speak highly of the podiatry program because they say the school is doing a lot to make things better for us, much more than the med school does for their students. I only responded earlier because not many temple students frequent the boards so I thought I would chime in so that pre-pods don't get the wrong idea about temple.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

I see what you're saying and I wasn't refering to your ego. It was in general for all those who are more interested in the ranking of their school so they can say I am the best rather than looking at the qualities of the school. Lots of people say their school is #1 just because they go there and that makes them feel good.

As for the residencies I know that a lot of people at Temple pick east coast residencies to apply because they are already from the east coast. The majority of Temple students seem to come from the east coast. I am one of the odd balls from the west coast. We have students at many fine programs out here and elswhere in the country.

Temple isn't perfect but has a lot of great qualities and opportunities. There are always improvements to be made. We may not take classes with the MDs but talking to my professors who teach the MDs they say they basically teach the same stuff to them as us. It might be modified here or their if it pertains to the boards. My teachers from the MD program actually speak highly of the podiatry program because they say the school is doing a lot to make things better for us, much more than the med school does for their students. I only responded earlier because not many temple students frequent the boards so I thought I would chime in so that pre-pods don't get the wrong idea about temple.

I am glad you defend your school and I wish I would see more Temple students on SDN.

Have you ever asked why you cannot take classes with the MD students? Why that is not a goal for the school? I don't care if you take harder tests while sitting over a tank of angry sharks, until you are side by side taking the classes and tests together, it is the only way the world is guaranteed that there is true parity. I just wonder if the administrators have ever said or students have ever asked why not fully integrate.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

You are leaving out a big variable in your math. You forgot about the people who chose to go elsewhere and weren't rejected at DMU. That changes everything so the 80% rejection number isn't correct.

This is true. You must take all students interviewed and divide it by all of the students that were accepted. But I would guess that it is still fairly high (compared to other DPM programs).

 

[SportDPM]

You are right, I forgot to include the total number of applicants accepted. If I remember correctly from Dr. Y's first intro to Pod lecture, it was around 80 that were accepted and 59 are in the class now. So close to 70% of the applicants were rejected. I wonder what the national average is for podiatry?

I hope with vision 2015 there could be a national television awareness campaign on what podiatry actually encompasses. I only found out about podiatry school during my senior year of college. I know there are tons of pre-med students who if they would have known about podiatry would have at least considered it as an option. That is all I did, and then fell in love with being able to know my specialty and not settling for family practice if I was a DO/MD. I am not a great standardized test taking person and would have probably ended up in that field.

 

[oncogene]

You are right, I forgot to include the total number of applicants accepted. If I remember correctly from Dr. Y's first intro to Pod lecture, it was around 80 that were accepted and 59 are in the class now. So close to 70% of the applicants were rejected. I wonder what the national average is for podiatry?

I hope with vision 2015 there could be a national television awareness campaign on what podiatry actually encompasses. I only found out about podiatry school during my senior year of college. I know there are tons of pre-med students who if they would have known about podiatry would have at least considered it as an option. That is all I did, and then fell in love with being able to know my specialty and not settling for family practice if I was a DO/MD. I am not a great standardized test taking person and would have probably ended up in that field.

I agree we need a a national PR campaign similar to what the ADA did in the 1980s.It would be huge on many levels.

 

[JackieTreehorn]

Where does Barry come in? I am from the Sunshine state and was thinking about coming back home for professional school. Not back with the 'rents obviously, but close enough to where I grew up.

 

[DrNdogg]

No it is still in the ghetto of Oakland.

Our didactic courses are taught in Oakland and about half of our clinics in 2nd year are in Oakland, but the majority of our clinics in 3rd and 4th year are outside of Oakland.

 

[Feli]

Where does Barry come in? I am from the Sunshine state and was thinking about coming back home for professional school. Not back with the 'rents obviously, but close enough to where I grew up.

Barry's pretty good IMO, but of course I'm biased.

As I see it, here's the main strengths:
-affiliation with a major university (dual degrees like MPH or MBA, gym, cafeterias, bookstore, health center, counseling, athletic training, good sports teams, intramurals, library, etc etc etc)
-scholarships are awarded to most incoming students, and Barry will match or exceed any scholarship that another pod school offers to a prospective student
-all major basic sciences faculty are full-time, have a campus office, and are very easy to contact or consult with
-clinical faculty are also quite accessible and friendly in my experience... diverse group with alumni of Scholl, Cali, OCPM, Barry, etc
-numerous and diverse clinical and hospital rotations are available for students, and all are here in Miami area... no need to do "cores" elsewhere
-patient population is extremely diverse since Miami is a cultural melting pot
-fourth year has 5 or 6 externship months (depending if you want a month off) and 2 home months which are all before CRIPS
-weather is good (duh)... can go to the beach while other schools might be in a blizzard

Here's the primary weaknesses:
-student talent and effort is less than impressive in some cases (this varies year to year), but of course they are trying to attract good students with scholarships, improving program, etc
-board pass rate is sometimes average or below (again... student talent and effort)
-podiatric journal reading might not be stressed as much as it could be (again, the program is aware of this and making it mandatory in some classes)
-some facilities are dated, but all are quite adequate and new facilities are under construction

I think Barry is a fine choice and you can learn a lot as a pod student - both clinically and in basic sciences. I came here because my parents retired nearby, I got a scholarship, it's a beautiful campus with a lot of resources,; the fact it's a Catholic university appealed to me. The only thing you have to be aware of is that you might have to work hard to distinguish yourself and avoid being lumped into the "Barry has a lot of subpar students" reputation that seems to be prevalent. The way to do that is to just study hard and keep up on the literature. Top students here go above and beyond and learn partially in a self directed manner just like anywhere else. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Good grads come from here just like any other school, and most of the upperclassmen who I respect as good students said they felt just fine about their knowledge base on externships in comparison to externs from other pod schools. They also stated that their clinical skills seemed a bit stronger. I won't really know for sure until I do externships myself, though...

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Our didactic courses are taught in Oakland and about half of our clinics in 2nd year are in Oakland, but the majority of our clinics in 3rd and 4th year are outside of Oakland.

The question read "where is the school." I realize that you work at various Kaiser hospitals in the area.

 

[Ralph Ralph]

Oh if you want to take classes with MD's and if that is your goal, you are in the wrong program, ha ha. Sounds like you wanted to be in general practice somewhere. I've seen some people drop out of podiatry school to go to a general medicine school.... just an option for you, I've seen it done. There's no need to struggle to be like the general medicine students..... we're not them. Podiatry is different, so embrace it, love it, cherish it, and quit whining about not being treated like other professions that aren't yours. Or change career paths.

 

[prettypod]

General medicine?? MD students in OUR classes?? They're not good enough, we're in PODIATRY school, let's act like we're proud, who wants to be in their classes anyway? Oh yeah, my uncle who's an MD wanted to.. not me though, that's why I'm in podiatry school.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Oh if you want to take classes with MD's and if that is your goal, you are in the wrong program, ha ha. Sounds like you wanted to be in general practice somewhere. I've seen some people drop out of podiatry school to go to a general medicine school.... just an option for you, I've seen it done. There's no need to struggle to be like the general medicine students..... we're not them. Podiatry is different, so embrace it, love it, cherish it, and quit whining about not being treated like other professions that aren't yours. Or change career paths.

Thanks for the career advice. I'll take that to heart.

General medicine?? MD students in OUR classes?? They're not good enough, we're in PODIATRY school, let's act like we're proud, who wants to be in their classes anyway? Oh yeah, my uncle who's an MD wanted to.. not me though, that's why I'm in podiatry school.

I'm not sure if either of you are aware that DOs and DPMs are currently taking courses together at 2 soon to be 3 of the podiatry schools. That the basic science education is the same material as DO and MD programs. And finally, that being proud to be a podiatrist is much different than being educated. Podiatry has come a very long way by merging with general medical schools and if they are to continue advancing and achieving they do need to merge with MD schools. That is my take on the future of podiatry but what do I know, I guess I'm going to have to go back to a MD or DO program.

 

[prettypod]

Yeah, it sounds like it, hey even after you get your DPM you could still go to an MD program! Podiatry is exceptional and I like the fact of being separated from other professions, as we will be the foot and ankle specialists, not the Medical Doctors. It seems silly to merge one career path with another just because they have something in common. Maybe airline mechanics and pilots should go to the same school or share classes?

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

Yeah, it sounds like it, hey even after you get your DPM you could still go to an MD program! Podiatry is exceptional and I like the fact of being separated from other professions, as we will be the foot and ankle specialists, not the Medical Doctors. It seems silly to merge one career path with another just because they have something in common. Maybe airline mechanics and pilots should go to the same school or share classes?

Where are you in your education? I feel the complete opposite. A neurologist is a master of the nervous system but they don't only study that one subject. To separate yourself is to lose sight of what medicine is all about. There is not one pathology that will only affect the foot. Even an ingrown nail will have systemic effects. Onychomycosis can spread to the fingernails or lead to tinea pedis which can lead to a bacterial infection and back to systemic effects. The drugs you prescribe affect the whole body. The anesthesia you use in surgeon whole body.

Podiatry does not just have something in common with MDs it has everything in common when it comes to the care of our patients. The only differences is podiatrist cannot change specialties later in life without going back to school MDs/DOs only need to reenter the residency pool.

 

[bdaddyjolley]

Where are you in your education? I feel the complete opposite. A neurologist is a master of the nervous system but they don't only study that one subject. To separate yourself is to lose sight of what medicine is all about. There is not one pathology that will only affect the foot. Even an ingrown nail will have systemic effects. Onychomycosis can spread to the fingernails or lead to tinea pedis which can lead to a bacterial infection and back to systemic effects. The drugs you prescribe affect the whole body. The anesthesia you use in surgeon whole body.

Podiatry does not just have something in common with MDs it has everything in common when it comes to the care of our patients. The only differences is podiatrist cannot change specialties later in life without going back to school MDs/DOs only need to reenter the residency pool.

But you can still get all that training without having to be in the same classes as those students in the MD or DO programs. I think integration is great but to be a great podiatrist and know the whole body doesn't mean you have to sit next to the MD student. That also enlarges the class size.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

But you can still get all that training without having to be in the same classes as those students in the MD or DO programs. I think integration is great but to be a great podiatrist and know the whole body doesn't mean you have to sit next to the MD student. That also enlarges the class size.

Come on the Temple class is already 100, I don't think that they are too worried about this.

 

[Feli]

Come on the Temple class is already 100, I don't think that they are too worried about this.

This is getting rediculous.

NY always takes 100+, Ohio has 130 incoming, Temple 100?, and I know Barry has roughly 80 or 85 new students. That's 400+ right there, and that's only half of the pod the schools. I'd estimate Scholl took about 100, Cali 50 or 60, DMU maybe 50, and AZ maybe 40?... to bring the national size of 2011 to 700 students or so... plus the 5yr people who have been, or will get, added in. I'm no math major, but that's got to be almost double the number of currently approved CASPR residency positions.

The national DPM graduating class last year (2007) was only around 330 or so, wasn't it? I sure hope some of the less selective schools that accept nearly anyone will have a pretty good attrition rate over the next 4yrs, or there will be some subpar grads and just won't be enough residencies (like in the 1990s). That would really be detrimental.

I was thinking how nice it must have been for the '07 grads to have less competition and some quality scramble spots, but I'm still definitely glad that I'm graduating in '09 before it could get even worse.

 

[jonwill]

This is getting rediculous.

NY always takes 100+, Ohio has 130 incoming, Temple 100, and I know Barry has roughly 80 or 85 new students. That's 400+ right there, and that's only half of the pod the schools. I'd estimate Scholl took about 100, Cali 50 or 60, DMU maybe 50, and AZ maybe 40?... to bring the national size of 2011 to 700 students or so... plus the 5yr people who have been or will get added in. I'm no math major, but that's got to be almost double the number of currently approved CASPR residency positions.

The national DPM graduating class last year (2007) was only around 330 or so, wasn't it? I sure hope some of the less selective schools that accept nearly anyone will have a pretty good attrition rate over the next 4yrs, or there will be some subpar grads and just won't be enough residencies (like in the 1990s). That would really be detrimental.

Your forgetting about the new program at Western.

 

[Feli]

Your forgetting about the new program at Western.

That's right ^

Oh well, I guess some things are certainly out of our control.

Happy Labor Day... I'm surprised you haven't got paged in for a BBQ fork-induced navicular fx or somethin

 

[jonwill]

I think integration is great but to be a great podiatrist and know the whole body doesn't mean you have to sit next to the MD student.

While technically this may be true, when the program is integrated, the student is guaranteed a rigorous and well-rounded medical education. You need look no further than the board pass rates to see this. Technically, I could open a school in my garage and make it just as rigorous. Realistically, it isn't the case.

But this isn't the only reason it is important that all schools integrate with MD/DO programs. Financially, it is huge. Notice that the schools integrated with these programs are much more selective in the students they take. The other schools largely take anyone who can take out a loan because they are tuition driven. Not taking every living, breathing soul means they can't pay the bills. Integrating with medical schools eases financial stress and allows programs to take only the truly qualified students. It would raise the quality of our students and graduates across the board. I think you'll see a huge difference in attrition rates if and when this happens.

 

[Ralph Ralph]

I just decide on OCPM, and the decision was an easy one. I visited several schools, but OCPM stood out. Brand new school, brand new equipment/lab supplies. All the students were happy to be there and the staff was helpful and friendly. It's a beautiful campus too. I want to go to the best school, and OCPM has taken the lead in that regard. The whole "tier" system has definately changed.... I think it's awesome that they're striving to maintain high levels of technology and education through such drastic changes... I can't wait to be immersed into that environment.

 

[oncogene]

This is getting rediculous.

NY always takes 100+, Ohio has 130 incoming, Temple 100?, and I know Barry has roughly 80 or 85 new students. That's 400+ right there, and that's only half of the pod the schools. I'd estimate Scholl took about 100, Cali 50 or 60, DMU maybe 50, and AZ maybe 40?... to bring the national size of 2011 to 700 students or so... plus the 5yr people who have been, or will get, added in. I'm no math major, but that's got to be almost double the number of currently approved CASPR residency positions.

The national DPM graduating class last year (2007) was only around 330 or so, wasn't it? I sure hope some of the less selective schools that accept nearly anyone will have a pretty good attrition rate over the next 4yrs, or there will be some subpar grads and just won't be enough residencies (like in the 1990s). That would really be detrimental.

I was thinking how nice it must have been for the '07 grads to have less competition and some quality scramble spots, but I'm still definitely glad that I'm graduating in '09 before it could get even worse.

Just the other day our dean was asked this question. He basically said that all of the residency programs have the funding and power to add at least one spot at any give time. Secondly, he said that they will be looking to the class 0f 2010 after boards to start getting an idea about what needs to be done to address this issue.

 

[jonwill]

I just decide on OCPM, and the decision was an easy one. I visited several schools, but OCPM stood out. Brand new school, brand new equipment/lab supplies. All the students were happy to be there and the staff was helpful and friendly. It's a beautiful campus too. I want to go to the best school, and OCPM has taken the lead in that regard. The whole "tier" system has definately changed.... I think it's awesome that they're striving to maintain high levels of technology and education through such drastic changes... I can't wait to be immersed into that environment.

I'm glad you're excited about OCPM but you have to realize that even with their new facilities and technology, OCPM is merely catching up with some of the other schools. Whether the program has improved academically remains to be seen.

 

[krabmas]

I'm glad you're excited about OCPM but you have to realize that even with their new facilities and technology, OCPM is merely catching up with some of the other schools. Whether the program has improved academically remains to be seen.

I agree with jonwill. If the school stays solo and continues to admit 100 or so students the board pass rate will stay the same and so will the education.

And - NYCPM does not always take 100+ students, my class of 2007 started with about 90 including the 5 yearers. They like to take about 100 and yes it is for the money.

This is the reason that there is a ranking system, or that people want there to be a ranking system. If you are looking for the best education possible then you want to go to one of the top schools.

And like everyone else agrees, anyone can get a good education at any school, but not everyone will get a good education at any school.

 

[dpmgrad]

Have you ever asked why you cannot take classes with the MD students? Why that is not a goal for the school? I don't care if you take harder tests while sitting over a tank of angry sharks, until you are side by side taking the classes and tests together, it is the only way the world is guaranteed that there is true parity. I just wonder if the administrators have ever said or students have ever asked why not fully integrate.

The major reason why students do not take classes with MD students is that the two schools are located on different campuses. The second reason is that Temple MD program had converted their curriculum to an organ based system approach and Temple DPM program is still the traditional basic science approach. Unless, Temple DPM does a major overhaul of their basic science curriculum to an organ based system approach (which would not be a bad idea for TUSPM), it is virtually impossible for TUSPM students to sit in the same basic science classes as TUSM students. The other interesting thing is that the Temple Dental students (whom are located on the same campus as the MD students) do not sit in the same basic science classes at Temple, unlike schools such as Columbia University. TUSPM has been making some efforts in trying to standardizing the basic science courses at level of the MD school with the help of the MD school faculty. One of the major changes that TUSPM institute since I had graduated was the Fundamentals of Podiatric Practice course, which is mirrored after the MD course. In this course, TUSPM students get to practice doing full H&Ps on simulated patients and go up to Temple University Hospital doing H&Ps along with MD students. Unfortunately, integration between DPM and MD schools may take a long time to occur due to many factors, such as politics, location of campuses (applies to TUSPM), etc... I agree with you that it would be awesome to see TUSPM and Scholl to fully integrate their basic science classes with the MD students.

 

[Dr_Feelgood]

The major reason why students do not take classes with MD students is that the two schools are located on different campuses. The second reason is that Temple MD program had converted their curriculum to an organ based system approach and Temple DPM program is still the traditional basic science approach. Unless, Temple DPM does a major overhaul of their basic science curriculum to an organ based system approach (which would not be a bad idea for TUSPM), it is virtually impossible for TUSPM students to sit in the same basic science classes as TUSM students. The other interesting thing is that the Temple Dental students (whom are located on the same campus as the MD students) do not sit in the same basic science classes at Temple, unlike schools such as Columbia University. TUSPM has been making some efforts in trying to standardizing the basic science courses at level of the MD school with the help of the MD school faculty. One of the major changes that TUSPM institute since I had graduated was the Fundamentals of Podiatric Practice course, which is mirrored after the MD course. In this course, TUSPM students get to practice doing full H&Ps on simulated patients and go up to Temple University Hospital doing H&Ps along with MD students. Unfortunately, integration between DPM and MD schools may take a long time to occur due to many factors, such as politics. I agree with you that it would be awesome to see TUSPM and Scholl to fully integrate their basic science classes with the MD students.

I would have to say if they were going to go through the major overhaul to a system based courses, they might as well integrate. If you are going to go, go all the way. If the podiatry program showed the medical school and administration how much money would be saved, it would be an easy sell. Plus the medical school could build new facilities to accommodate all of the students. Another win win.

 

[dpmgrad]

Come on the Temple class is already 100, I don't think that they are too worried about this.

Actually, TUSPM does NOT have 100 student in their incoming class. They are aiming somewhere between 80 - 90 students per year as per the clinical dean at TUSPM. They have about 90 students for the current first year class.

 

[dpmgrad]

I would have to say if they were going to go through the major overhaul to a system based courses, they might as well integrate. If you are going to go, go all the way. If the podiatry program showed the medical school and administration how much money would be saved, it would be an easy sell. Plus the medical school could build new facilities to accommodate all of the students. Another win win.

The sad part about this is that Temple Medical School new building is already near completion. To my knowledge, TUSPM was not factored into the design of the new building.

 

[JEWmongous]

I thought its opening in may 2009?

 

[dpmgrad]

I thought its opening in may 2009?

You are correct in that it is anticipated to open in May 2009. However, with much of the structural elements up already, there is no way for Temple Medical School to expand the building to accomodate TUSPM.

 

[JEWmongous]

If the temple pod school would merge with the med school, wouldn't it make sense for MD and DPM students to take the same (for the most part) basic science classes together, labs, etc? In other words, I would imagine sharing the facility instead of a special area/rooms for the DPM students. Furthermore, would there be enough room in the new lecture halls for 100 more students on top of the pretty large Temple MD class?

 

[dpmgrad]

If the temple pod school would merge with the med school, wouldn't it make sense for MD and DPM students to take the same (for the most part) basic science classes together, labs, etc? In other words, I would imagine sharing the facility instead of a special area/rooms for the DPM students. Furthermore, would there be enough room in the new lecture halls for 100 more students on top of the pretty large Temple MD class?

Well, DPM students will always need special rooms for the DPM specific courses, such as orthotic casting labs, surgical clinical labs for cadaver surgery course, etc.... I agree that if the DPM school were to merge with MD school, the MD and DPM students will be sharing the same basic science classes together. As for lecture halls, I am sure that Temple can always build larger lecture halls to accomodate both DPM and MD students. However, if you noticed that the Temple Dental School and Temple Medical School are on the same campus and yet Dental and Medical students do not sit in the same basic science courses.

 

[whiskers]

I'm glad you're excited about OCPM but you have to realize that even with their new facilities and technology, OCPM is merely catching up with some of the other schools. Whether the program has improved academically remains to be seen.

Jonwill, Thanks for the update!!! But do you know if OHIO has caught up with any of the LPN schools yet???

I heard about the technology update, but I wonder if they have plenty of photocopy machines and printers for the students to use though!! Better reproduction quality for them ohio generated "study aids" is an important component of the "education process" from what I hear!

BTW, in 10 years, who will have more students, Ohio podiatry University or Ohio State Univeristy?

 

[OSUDDS]

Jonwill, Thanks for the update!!! But do you know if OCPM has caught up with the LPN schools yet???

I heard about the technology update, but I wonder if they have plenty of photocopy machines and printers for the students to use though!! Better reproduction quality for them ohio generated study aids is an important component of the education process from what I hear!

i wish we got copies of old tests. im at ocpm now and i havent seen a one.