Ranking game

[echod]

Based on your past experiences, how competitive do you think the following groups of people would do on the match? Please rank. Thanks!

1. MD; multiple first author clinical pubs; almost all honors; >250 steps
2. MD; one first author clinical pub; several honors; >250 steps
3. MD; one first author clinical pub; 1-2 honors; >240 steps
4. MD/PhD; multiple first author basic sci pubs; almost all honors; >250 steps
5. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; several honors; >250 steps
6. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; no honors; >250 steps
7. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; no honors; >240 steps

Assuming that the MD/PhD does some chart review but not published in time for the match.

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[rad0nc]

4>5>6>7>1>2>3

 

[rymd]

The one with the best personality fit on interview day gets ranked 1.

 

[nothingman]

In my experience, other factors being equal:

4>5~1>2 - then for the rest, depends.

The MD/PhD with low clinical grades may be in Neuronix's well-described trap in that many non-academic programs may not see them to be a good fit given that these programs offer little to no research in residency esp in basic sciences. Thus they will either match mid-tier academic or gain few interviews in lower tier programs (and anywhere else). The MD with low clinical grades may do a bit better with a wide net at lower-ranked academic and community programs. But in these situations, mileage may vary.

So, odds of matching per se difficult to predict. All said and done the MD/PhD #6 and 7 will probably match at a better place than MD #3, but I wonder if MD #3 has a better shot of matching somewhere.

 

[Neuronix]

IMO:

4>1 generally but 1 might have an advantage if their research is directly rad onc related and 4's is not. This is program dependent.

Then 5 > 2 > 3.

NO honors is a recipe for not matching. I'd be very nervous in 6 and 7's position. As for personality fit, it doesn't help when you don't get an interview. I was surprised at the programs where I didn't even get a chance to make myself known. I was also surprised to find programs I thought were very strong in my area of research and other location specific interests had very little interest in them. Then I guess it's just a who can be the happiest/smiliest game.

 

[deleted4401]

Silly game ... but I like silly games,
4=1 > Rest
I think MD/PhD is a proxy for lots of research/publications. If MD has 10 pubs and the PhD has 10 pubs, except for a limited number of programs (wherever Dennis Hallahan works, Harvard, MDACC, a few more), they are comparable.
240 is the same as a 250 in the eyes of the ranking committee. Should have broke down as 215 vs 240.
The number of honors thing is useless in this discussion. I.e. - 1 honor in radonc would be better than 3 honors in peds, family practice, and ob-gyn, with no honors in radonc.
Should have used AOA or not AOA for these hypothetical applicants.
S

 

[deleted4401]

And I completely disagree about the personality being ranked #1. Seen it happen enough times at my own program.

 

[varsityblue]

Based on your past experiences, how competitive do you think the following groups of people would do on the match? Please rank. Thanks!

1. MD; multiple first author clinical pubs; almost all honors; >250 steps
2. MD; one first author clinical pub; several honors; >250 steps
3. MD; one first author clinical pub; 1-2 honors; >240 steps
4. MD/PhD; multiple first author basic sci pubs; almost all honors; >250 steps
5. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; several honors; >250 steps
6. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; no honors; >250 steps
7. MD/PhD; one first author basic sci pub; no honors; >240 steps

Assuming that the MD/PhD does some chart review but not published in time for the match.

I'd say 4 > 1 > 2 = 5 > 6 > 3 > 7. As far as personality goes, I do think that there's a reason mutual selection exists: people have to be comfortable where they end up.

 

[FSU2013]

SimulD -

So concerning honor's - let's say I get all honors in third year. I know there is a lot of gamesmanship that goes into planning 4th year, where you should do an away, etc - but, what does this say about the difficulty of grading at the programs at which you may do an away? I.e. are there programs that grade m4's on away rotations particularly tough and if so should they be avoided as to not blemish otherwise solid transcripts?

I realize I won't be the ideal candidate (I don't have a million pubs, a PhD or come from a big name university), but I have done well - I have some research, a strong step1 and solid clinical grades - would getting a pass on a radonc away significantly marginalize other academic accomplishments?

 

[Sheldor]

SimulD -

So concerning honor's - let's say I get all honors in third year. I know there is a lot of gamesmanship that goes into planning 4th year, where you should do an away, etc - but, what does this say about the difficulty of grading at the programs at which you may do an away? I.e. are there programs that grade m4's on away rotations particularly tough and if so should they be avoided as to not blemish otherwise solid transcripts?

I realize I won't be the ideal candidate (I don't have a million pubs, a PhD or come from a big name university), but I have done well - I have some research, a strong step1 and solid clinical grades - would getting a pass on a radonc away significantly marginalize other academic accomplishments?

As a small addendum to this question, my school does all of fourth year as pass/fail, while the other three years are graded. Is it common for rad onc aways to be graded?

 

[JumpingFrenchmn]

1 honor in radonc would be better than 3 honors in peds, family practice, and ob-gyn, with no honors in radonc. Should have used AOA or not AOA for these hypothetical applicants.
S

Ok I'm just a med student and don't mean to challenge your authoritah but I have to humbly disagree with this based on my quite limited experience. I will present 3 data points. I recently interviewed at a "top" program where they distributed one page handouts to interviewers that summarized our apps. I snuck a quick peak at mine during an interview as it was lying on the table. At the very top were all my core clerkship grades. There were NO electives even listed there (which of course includes rad onc grades). Not even my SubI made it there. Also they were listed in a non-random order with medicine and surgery at the top. I've also spoken with PDs and members of residency committees at two other "top" programs and they also emphasized the importance of clerkship grades and in particular medicine (at both) and surgery (at one). Both programs also downplayed the importance of electives as, "everyone gets honors in elective rotations." Also playing down the importance of clerkship grades but then emphasizing AOA is contradictory, as at most places, AOA is primarily based on core clerkship grades. And not every school has AOA.

That said, I would imagine, since fourth year elective grades are grossly inflated, that a non-honors rad onc rotation grade would be pretty sketchy, if that's what you meant.... and if that's all you meant, sorry for my rant

Regarding rad onc rotations though I would guess that LORs would be far more important than the grade itself.

 

[Pewl]

I'd like to point out that not every school has an "honors" ranking for electives.

The institution I work at apparently only has marginal pass, pass, and near honors for electives.

This was brought to my attention when one of the rotating med students freaked out when she saw her grade. =P

 

[deleted4401]

I have no authority ... You may be totally right. I didn't interview at the fancy places If they are looking for an honors in OB-GYN or IM or Surgery, that is acceptable. It's is arbritary as the other factors. The rad onc match still completely mystifies me...

 

[ramsesthenice]

All places are not the same but this is all published in the pd survey from aamc. In general core clerkship grades do matter and AOA has virtually no importance. Again, there is no one size fits all. I doubt programs interview people they are not interested in. At the top, this is not much of a debate. Most people interviewing at sloan or anderson have PERFECT applications in every way. Beyond that who really knows...