2022 Match Game

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CurbYourExpectations said:
So almost all of the spots from that list must have filled, because 8 spots weren't included in the soap from programs likely opting not to participate. Or maybe GynGyn means of the programs that were participating.
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These were participating programs.
 
CurbYourExpectations said:
Hey, sorry she didn't match and understandably it is a stressful time. There is a current oversupply of residency spots in the US for RadOnc and a lot of people are actively pushing to curb further continued over supply and correct spots. Can't say for sure why she didn't get interviews, but there is also a movement to prevent further oversupply by not interviewing those without experience in the field. Hope things work out for her and judging from her accomplishments, they will.
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Words from a med student:

She didn’t edit her personal statements enough to tailor her wants and needs into rad onc. The rad oncs got pickier this year. But I still have a hard time fathoming it.
 
gyngyn said:
I'm hoping someone here can answer a question I have regarding this year's SOAP.
I have a student who didn't match in plastics. She had a strong application, a year of productive research and Step scores in excess of 260.
She decided to change her focus and noticed a boatload of open positions at well-recognized universities in your specialty.
She didn't get a single interview in radiation oncology in this year's SOAP.
Can someone explain this to me?
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this didnt get enough attention. this is very very very interesting.

sorry for your student, but this should make us somewhat optimistic. im pleasantly surprised
 
jondunn said:
this didnt get enough attention. this is very very very interesting.

sorry for your student, but this should make us somewhat optimistic. im pleasantly surprised
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I think this is in line with previous explanations: places in the soap know to only take people who's only other options are prison or car sales.
 
Ray D. Ayshun said:
I think this is in line with previous explanations: places in the soap know to only take people who's only other options are prison or car sales.
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Next year, I plan to tell any high stats SOAPers not to waste one of their 45 choices on rad onc. Am I wrong?
 
gyngyn said:
Next year, I plan to tell any high stats SOAPers not to waste one of their 45 choices on rad onc. Am I wrong?
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I would agree with this. There's the inherent uncertainty with the job market, but even worse, they'd be spending their time at a place with a terrible rep and training, with one or two exceptions here or there.
 
medgator said:
Not at all.... Rad Onc leadership is reaping what they've sowed
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They are. My sample is mid to low tier programs, and there are indeed new problems with residents not showing up and quitting
 
i am a bit confused on why people from Mayo Clinic, Stanford, Yale etc. are trying to enter what many on here seem to call a “dying speciality.” Surely these people could have had their picks?
 
voxveritatisetlucis said:
i am a bit confused on why people from Mayo Clinic, Stanford, Yale etc. are trying to enter what many on here seem to call a “dying speciality.” Surely these people could have had their picks?
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You cannot underestimate the weight of institutional culture in those environments.

Medical school being a "meritocracy" is a myth. Yes, some people are there based only on intelligence and work ethic. A lot of people are there because they know the right people and/or they know how to play the game (more likely: they were born 2 steps ahead in the game).

The influence of real-life academic "mentors" in these institutions is often overwhelmingly strong. If you're a 20-something year old kid, who went straight to medical school from undergrad, and the Endowed Professor of Tom Tomington tells you RadOnc is amazing and SDN is full of misanthropic trolls...well, most people aren't ready to buck a system which has rewarded them for respecting the hierarchy their whole life in favor of a message board.

To get into medical school, graduate, get into residency, graduate, and practice specialty medicine in America - that requires an intense mix of focus, dedication, and subservience. The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

I wouldn't form an opinion on any medical specialty based on the pedigree of the kids matching into it.
 
brushbeamscanning said:
Maybe they're being gaslit by their mentors, most places counsel in avoiding SDN/Twitter claims. I will say at least in the short term I think the job crisis in the very immediate future (1-3 years) is a bit overblown but there will be a tipping point directly after.
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It is already here if you are looking in larger FL tx metros or certain parts of Cali. Incredibly tight markets with people mentioning difficulties even this year. Very wide open in Midwest/flyover country
 
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RadsWFA1900 said:
Can anybody pull up the match from say 2013? Little compare and contrast? How many are PhDs?
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how many times can this exact post be made? we all know this.

it's supply and demand. any field will be more selective when they have more applicants.
 
salubalu said:
An FMG may be a Luka Doncic and a MD PHD may be a Greg Oden. Please let’s not shame fmgs dos and people note with 300s on step 1
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I am not shaming them at all. Just reposting Stanfords tweet. I agree that there are many excellent fmgs. Many come from
 
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salubalu said:
An FMG may be a Luka Doncic and a MD PHD may be a Greg Oden. Please let’s not shame fmgs dos and people note with 300s on step 1
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I think some of these FMGs who are capitalizing may end up looking quite smart - of course academically but I mean some may be taking the 'buy low' approach, especially if they are willing to work anywhere to maximize income potential.

time will tell
 
salubalu said:
An FMG may be a Luka Doncic and a MD PHD may be a Greg Oden. Please let’s not shame fmgs dos and people not with 300s on step 1
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There are two types of IMG/FMG.... Many that are getting into RO now I've seen lately are coming from the Caribbean, not as physicians who did well in their own country or people that went to AIMS in India or something. There is a huge difference and it's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
 
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A lot of speculation and logical contortions to say that this year’s radiation oncology crop, at Harvard or elsewhere, is as qualified as that of 2010.

It does not help that there are a few suddenly woke boomer chairs that believe every no-name foreign medical school must be graduating Srini Ramanujan’s of oncology. In my experience, DO and Caribbean schools for instance, still have hefty tuitions, so the students that attend often come from upper middle class families, but they studied too little and partied too much in college.

The question is whether top radiation oncology programs can take a medical school graduate with lesser “traditional institutionalized metrics of competency with hidden biases” and train him/her to be equally competent as his/her predecessors. Time will tell!
 
yesmaster said:
A lot of speculation and logical contortions to say that this year’s radiation oncology crop, at Harvard or elsewhere, is as qualified as that of 2010.

It does not help that there are a few suddenly woke boomer chairs that believe every no-name foreign medical school must be graduating Srini Ramanujan’s of oncology. In my experience, DO and Caribbean schools for instance, still have hefty tuitions, so the students that attend often come from upper middle class families, but they studied too little and partied too much in college.

The question is whether top radiation oncology programs can take a medical school graduate with lesser “traditional institutionalized metrics of competency with hidden biases” and train him/her to be equally competent as his/her predecessors. Time will tell!
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I think we already know the answer to this if you strip away the utter nonsense that gets wrapped in a typical RO residency.

What are you actually doing day to day. See consult sim contour manage on treatment and send off. Memorize target volumes, dose constraints and nccn guidelines. Throw in some statistics to memorize and presto. The rad bio rad physics nowadays is a joke at most places especially the biology portion as nobody is actually actively looking at it.

So back to the question, how qualified do you need to be to competently perform this specialty. On the spectrum of physician tasks that are performed day in and day out…we really aren’t special.

Like hypofrac, not hogging true scientific talent the way we have and allowing thr more qualified students to seek out other fields we are doing everyone else in medicine and society a favor.
 
RadsWFA1900 said:
I think we already know the answer to this if you strip away the utter nonsense that gets wrapped in a typical RO residency.

What are you actually doing day to day. See consult sim contour manage on treatment and send off. Memorize target volumes, dose constraints and nccn guidelines. Throw in some statistics to memorize and presto. The rad bio rad physics nowadays is a joke at most places especially the biology portion as nobody is actually actively looking at it.
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exactly right. this is what hellpits do now anyways - the bare minimum. thats all you need. the 70 year olds have the bare minimum too.

thats the great thing about the bare minimum - at the end of the day its totally good enough.


and our colleagues dont know the diff
 
yesmaster said:
A lot of speculation and logical contortions to say that this year’s radiation oncology crop, at Harvard or elsewhere, is as qualified as that of 2010.

It does not help that there are a few suddenly woke boomer chairs that believe every no-name foreign medical school must be graduating Srini Ramanujan’s of oncology. In my experience, DO and Caribbean schools for instance, still have hefty tuitions, so the students that attend often come from upper middle class families, but they studied too little and partied too much in college.

The question is whether top radiation oncology programs can take a medical school graduate with lesser “traditional institutionalized metrics of competency with hidden biases” and train him/her to be equally competent as his/her predecessors. Time will tell!
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It is a failure of training programs that the presumption is that you need all the glossy **** to be good at this job. If you can do medical school, you can do this. But the education is so bad that these classes may struggle to complete certification.
 
RealSimulD said:
It is a failure of training programs that the presumption is that you need all the glossy **** to be good at this job. If you can do medical school, you can do this. But the education is so bad that these classes may struggle to complete certification.
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I wonder what it’s like for say surgical residents in terms of education.

I don’t think what any of my attendings did for me in residency would even qualify as teaching per se. You were just afraid to screw up so you studied on your own and they would yell at you when you did something wrong. Rinse repeat for 4 years.
 
You’re pissed that you published those retrospective reviews as a medical student 10+ years ago, I get it. But I feel like those of us who applied to radiation oncology 2005-2015, when research and publications and extra degrees were in vogue, sometimes conflate that extra, probably-extraneous-for-community-practice research stuff with a higher standard in general for applicants.

For example, we used to do 3-4 radiation oncology rotations as 4th year medical students. You can’t tell me those rotations are useless and someone who SOAPed from psychiatry is just as likely to be a good fit for radiation oncology.

Similarly, was it necessary to have a 260+ Step 1 score? No, but it’s a good indicator for someone who can independently study for clinic and boards, which may be more necessary in some residency programs than others.
 
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PGY2 is hard even if you did 4 rotations as an MS3.

i dont think its a major difference.

ive known some real ****ty residents that did 3 rotations.

anyone can learn.

a good person/doc/worker is a good person/doc/worker. that will be the determinant, not how many rottions they did
 
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