Ranking these places?

[Dukie2001]

Can you guys help me rank these places based on reputation, academic strength, teaching, residents cordiality, and fellowship placement for GI:

1) Mayo clinic MN
2) Cleveland clinic OH
3) Mayo clinic Jacksonville
4) UPENN
5) Duke
6) MGH
7) Columbia
8) Johns Hopkins
9) BW

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[mig26x]

you got to be kidding me!! LOL!!!

 

[Allygator89]

you got to be kidding me!! LOL!!!

If I remember correctly (from other posts), you are a 3rd year. Why in the world are you worrying about where to go for GI fellowship now? Yes, you want to go to a good residency, but you have to pass the interviews/application step first. If you are looking to do an externship next year, pick the place that YOU think is best, not what everyone else is telling you. People pick different residencies and rank programs that, for all intensive purposes are equal, for about a thousand different reasons.


Oh, and check out scut work.com

 

[Dukie2001]

If I remember correctly (from other posts), you are a 3rd year. Why in the world are you worrying about where to go for GI fellowship now? Yes, you want to go to a good residency, but you have to pass the interviews/application step first. If you are looking to do an externship next year, pick the place that YOU think is best, not what everyone else is telling you. People pick different residencies and rank programs that, for all intensive purposes are equal, for about a thousand different reasons.


Oh, and check out scut work.com

The reason I ask is because I know all these programs are ranked highly. I know that I should go to where I think is best, but it is kinda hard to decide if you have already gone to scutwork, freida, etc and have a hard time picking some out. I want to do away electives next year and just wanted some input from others who have done rotations, interviews, residency in those places I mentioned since I thought you guys would have a more in depth view.
Thanks for the feedback anyways.

 

[Dukie2001]

you got to be kidding me!! LOL!!!

Haha. My bad...uum...what was so funny? LOL

 

[VCMM414]

Haha. My bad...uum...what was so funny? LOL

I think mig26x responded the way he/she did was because much of the information which you seek is here on the forums already. They are a bit scattered, so you would have to do some searching. By asking such an all-encompassing question, you impress upon others that you haven't put in the time to look for the information yourself. People on this forum are generally pretty helpful, but they also lead busy lives such that few would try to tackle a question like yours. Maybe you can try breaking it up into parts.

Having said that, I'll give program reputation (which for the most part correlates with superior GI placement) a shot:

MGH=BWH=Hopkins > Penn=Duke=Columbia > Mayo MN >>>> Mayo Jacksonville = Cleveland Clinic OH

In practice though, the difference between MGH et al. and Penn/Duke etc. is pretty minimal with regards to reputation, fellowship placement, or resident quality. At that level, you need to be looking into teaching, overall atmosphere, autonomy, location etc. much more than just prestige. Some non-east coast programs you also may want to look into include UCSF, Stanford, UW, UMich, WashU, UTSW. Harvard's own Beth Israel is worth a look also.

This should get you started. Use the search function!

 

[Adcadet]

The GI freaks were all excited about GI at Mayo (Roch), and I've heard it talked about as one of the top most GI programs. But it's not like I'm paying a ton of attention to the GI world.

 

[Dukie2001]

I think mig26x responded the way he/she did was because much of the information which you seek is here on the forums already. They are a bit scattered, so you would have to do some searching. By asking such an all-encompassing question, you impress upon others that you haven't put in the time to look for the information yourself. People on this forum are generally pretty helpful, but they also lead busy lives such that few would try to tackle a question like yours. Maybe you can try breaking it up into parts.

Having said that, I'll give program reputation (which for the most part correlates with superior GI placement) a shot:

MGH=BWH=Hopkins > Penn=Duke=Columbia > Mayo MN >>>> Mayo Jacksonville = Cleveland Clinic OH

In practice though, the difference between MGH et al. and Penn/Duke etc. is pretty minimal with regards to reputation, fellowship placement, or resident quality. At that level, you need to be looking into teaching, overall atmosphere, autonomy, location etc. much more than just prestige. Some non-east coast programs you also may want to look into include UCSF, Stanford, UW, UMich, WashU, UTSW. Harvard's own Beth Israel is worth a look also.

This should get you started. Use the search function!

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have been searching around this website and others, I guess its just a bit overwhelming the first time you get around it. I appreciate your help to get me started.

 

[VCMM414]

The GI freaks were all excited about GI at Mayo (Roch), and I've heard it talked about as one of the top most GI programs. But it's not like I'm paying a ton of attention to the GI world.

Ah yes. Programs with strong GI departments should also go a long way in helping residents match into GI. Dukie2001, aside from the programs already listed, you should also look into Mount Sinai NYC and UChicago, two very strong GI programs.

 

[CJamblooze]

Can you guys help me rank these places based on reputation, academic strength, teaching, residents cordiality, and fellowship placement for GI:

1) Mayo clinic MN
2) Cleveland clinic OH
3) Mayo clinic Jacksonville
4) UPENN
5) Duke
6) MGH
7) Columbia
8) Johns Hopkins
9) BW

Ah, the "audition rotation". 'Tis a double edge sword. I was going to do an audition rotation at one of the aformentioned places. As it turns out, they will not even make my rank list! What a waste of a precious month of 4th year that would have been. Then there is the chance that you clash with the one person in the department who you work with. You stand a risk of decreasing your chances. If you are competitive enough for this A list of programs, then an away rotation will not necessarily clench it for you.

If you are concerned about matching in GI, which will be no problem if you train at anyone of the places on your list, then I would spend sometime during 4th year doing GI research and try to get a publication out of it.

If you are at Duke for medical school, then you seriously can just relax and rock that 3rd year you're in. Good luck, dude!

 

[EaglesPA]

Ah, the "audition rotation". 'Tis a double edge sword. I was going to do an audition rotation at one of the aformentioned places. As it turns out, they will not even make my rank list! What a waste of a precious month of 4th year that would have been. Then there is the chance that you clash with the one person in the department who you work with. You stand a risk of decreasing your chances. If you are competitive enough for this A list of programs, then an away rotation will not necessarily clench it for you.

If you are concerned about matching in GI, which will be no problem if you train at anyone of the places on your list, then I would spend sometime during 4th year doing GI research and try to get a publication out of it.

If you are at Duke for medical school, then you seriously can just relax and rock that 3rd year you're in. Good luck, dude!

Agreed. If you are at a "top 20" med school and applying for IM, there's no reason to do an away rotation - it can only hurt you. If you are not at a "top 20" school but still has a strong application - AOA, strong boards and good grades again I wouldn't do it. The reason to do an away rotation will be to get you an interview at a place that you may otherwise not get.
In other fields like Neurosurgery, though, it is usually expected that people will do at least one away rotation.

 

[Adcadet]

I've got to disagree with the above comments about an away rotation. Even if you can get into whatever competitive place you want, I think there's a lot to be said for seeing a different place and a different way of doing things. Plus, there's nothing like a 4-week long interview experience to really get to know the program.

 

[EaglesPA]

I've got to disagree with the above comments about an away rotation. Even if you can get into whatever competitive place you want, I think there's a lot to be said for seeing a different place and a different way of doing things. Plus, there's nothing like a 4-week long interview experience to really get to know the program.

If your goal is to get to know the program, then that's fine - but many people do an away rotation with the aim of getting a leg up when it comes to applying. For those people, I don't think it's worth it.

 

[Dukie2001]

Agreed. If you are at a "top 20" med school and applying for IM, there's no reason to do an away rotation - it can only hurt you. If you are not at a "top 20" school but still has a strong application - AOA, strong boards and good grades again I wouldn't do it. The reason to do an away rotation will be to get you an interview at a place that you may otherwise not get.
In other fields like Neurosurgery, though, it is usually expected that people will do at least one away rotation.

Here is the thing: how do you know you are competitive ENOUGH? I mean, these are top programs right? Aren't most applicants as good if not more impressive than you? Wouldn't letting a program know you be better?
Btw here is where I am standing right now. Maybe you guys can tell me how I fare off. I am currently in third year:

1) A very NOT well known med school. Definitely not "top 20"
2) AOA
3) STEP 1 249
4) 1-2 publications

I know my board scores are pretty good, but doesn't all the other thousands of applicants have good boards, AOA, publications AND "top 20" school? I'd appreciate any feedback.

 

[EaglesPA]

Here is the thing: how do you know you are competitive ENOUGH? I mean, these are top programs right? Aren't most applicants as good if not more impressive than you? Wouldn't letting a program know you be better?
Btw here is where I am standing right now. Maybe you guys can tell me how I fare off. I am currently in third year:

1) A very NOT well known med school. Definitely not "top 20"
2) AOA
3) STEP 1 249
4) 1-2 publications

I know my board scores are pretty good, but doesn't all the other thousands of applicants have good boards, AOA, publications AND "top 20" school? I'd appreciate any feedback.

Of course you can't know for sure, but with your stats, if you get Honors in your Medicine clerkships and Sub-I plus great letters of recommendation, my bet is that you'll get interviews at all or most of those places.

 

[Adcadet]

If your goal is to get to know the program, then that's fine - but many people do an away rotation with the aim of getting a leg up when it comes to applying. For those people, I don't think it's worth it.

Again, I'm not completely convinced. I'm guessing many PDs would prefer to have an applicant who looks great on paper and looks good (but not great) in real life than somebody who looks great on paper and is mostly an unknown in real life. Of course, this all depends on exactly how you quantify and value "great" and "good". I agree that if you've got a good shot already an away can be a risk in terms of helping you get ranked highly. But if you've got a good shot before going I think the chances of your performance hurting you is slim and the ability to see a different place and really get to evaluate it for a full month can be invaluable.

 

[newenglandgal07]

U.S. news and world report Best Hospitals list. dukie you could take a look at that list and see how the hospitals rank in GI. But I wouldn't necessarily say its the end all be all. Just relax and focus on 3rd year for now.

 

[Dukie2001]

U.S. news and world report Best Hospitals list. dukie you could take a look at that list and see how the hospitals rank in GI. But I wouldn't necessarily say its the end all be all. Just relax and focus on 3rd year for now.

Thanks for the advice