Rant time (grades)

[kat.medu123]

I got a B+ in biochem this semester and will probably get a B+ or A- in physics 1. This semester has been the absolute worst considering I got A's in ochem 1 and 2 and only got a B+ in a science course from freshman year. At the start of this semester I had a 3.91 gpa now it's going to drop. How should I explain to adcoms about this when I apply? I'm currently a junior. I probably sound very neurotic, but this semester has been an absolute **** show and I think my mental health has gone bad but don't know if that's a reasonable excuse.

Update: Got an A- in physics :')

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[jamaica jan sun princess]

How you'll explain this to adcoms? Are you seriously still going to apply with THREE B+s on your transcript? Just transfer to trade school right now.

Just kidding. It sounds like your GPA will still be very competitive after factoring in some B+s. I've always heard that 3.7+ is competitive, and yours will.be in the 3.8x after this semester. If it makes you feel any better, my transcript has Cs and Ws on it and I still received interviews.

 

[Bwesternn]

Ah yes the neuroticism is high in this one.

1) An A- and B+, or B+ and B+ are not going to sink you, and the reality is that you won't even HAVE to explain this to adcoms.
2) Take a breath.

Enjoy your break!

 

[kat.medu123]

Ah yes the neuroticism is high in this one.

1) An A- and B+, or B+ and B+ are not going to sink you, and the reality is that you won't even HAVE to explain this to adcoms.
2) Take a breath.

Enjoy your break!

Thank you and I hope so 🥺

 

[gyngyn]

How should I explain to adcoms about this when I apply?

Please don't.
It makes you sound like a perfectionist, something we prefer to avoid.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

I got a B+ in biochem this semester and will probably get a B+ or A- in physics 1. This semester has been the absolute worst considering I got A's in ochem 1 and 2 and only got a B+ in a science course from freshman year. At the start of this semester I had a 3.91 gpa now it's going to drop. How should I explain to adcoms about this when I apply? I'm currently a junior. I probably sound very neurotic, but this semester has been an absolute **** show and I think my mental health has gone bad but don't know if that's a reasonable excuse.

I got in with a failing grade my final semester and then next semester passed the class with a C. Thankfully that single issue didn’t define my application. Try to step back and see the whole picture that your GPA tells. It seems like you generally perform very well.

Mental health, like any illness, is a valid excuse if you can also explain how you sought treatment and made an action plan for the next time you’re struggling. If you broke your leg and had to take time off for doctors appointments and surgery, that’s fine. If you broke your leg and laid in bed for the whole semester waiting for it to heal on its own without telling anyone about it, people would wonder about your judgement and might even question if you broke your leg at all.

Edit: since my analogy is not perfect, just wanted to clarify that it can take time realize you’re struggling with mental health and it’s a huge step to identify mental health issues in one’s self. The best thing to do for your application is to find treatment that works for you ASAP. Thought maybe my original post could be interpreted as it being “too late” because the semester is over. It’s never too late but earlier treatment can help you perform your best for the rest of school.

 

[kat.medu123]

I got in with a failing grade my final semester and then next semester passed the class with a C. Thankfully that single issue didn’t define my application. Try to step back and see the whole picture that your GPA tells. It seems like you generally perform very well.

Mental health, like any illness, is a valid excuse if you can also explain how you sought treatment and made an action plan for the next time you’re struggling. If you broke your leg and had to take time off for doctors appointments and surgery, that’s fine. If you broke your leg and laid in bed for the whole semester waiting for it to heal on its own without telling anyone about it, people would wonder about your judgement and might even question if you broke your leg at all.

Edit: since my analogy is not perfect, just wanted to clarify that it can take time realize you’re struggling with mental health and it’s a huge step to identify mental health issues in one’s self. The best thing to do for your application is to find treatment that works for you ASAP. Thought maybe my original post could be interpreted as it being “too late” because the semester is over. It’s never too late but earlier treatment can help you perform your best for the rest of school.

Thank you for the message. I've really been neglecting my mental health for so long and I've been hiding it because I was worried people would just say "you're not fit to be pre-med if you can't handle this". I can, but I think I hit a breaking point because of all the pressure to be perfect.

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

Thank you for the message. I've really been neglecting my mental health for so long and I've been hiding it because I was worried people would just say "you're not fit to be pre-med if you can't handle this". I can, but I think I hit a breaking point because of all the pressure to be perfect.

That's valid, I hear stigmatizing comments about mental health from my classmates and other healthcare professionals. But also have many classmates who are open about having ADHD, depression and anxiety. Also have a friend at school who is on the autism spectrum and I have a mental illness not listed.

This all goes to say, many people with mental illness are perfectly fit for the profession. It takes all types. I've always believed that having a neurodiverse mind can be an advantage in some ways. My mental illness doesn't define me as a person but I know that certain traits I have are related to or intensified by it. Some of those traits have helped me in medical school.

I recommend figuring this out as quickly as possible. Your grades are still above average and you want to keep it that way, plus have a plan for if you start having mental health issues in the future. Options could be a psychiatrist, a counselor, a psychologist, a life coach, a therapist, a religious leader or a mentor who you know has gone through some of the same things. If you're a social person, support groups can work nicely. I haven't seen one for pre-meds specifically but you may be able to find one for people coping with stress or any other things you're going through right now. A lot are available online which makes them easier to drop in to. Last some people find self help type workbooks helpful. These can be found on amazon or some libraries. A lot of them can help you be more conscious of your thoughts, why they might be distressing and how you can reframe or cope.

 

[stickgirl390]

But also have many classmates who are open about having ADHD, depression and anxiety.

I would argue that the vast majority (if not all) of medical students have ADHD, depression, anxiety, or a combination. Extremely common in this field, which is why so many recommend therapy early on and often in the process.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I would argue that the vast majority (if not all) of medical students have ADHD, depression, anxiety, or a combination. Extremely common in this field, which is why so many recommend therapy early on and often in the process.

I’m pretty sure med school selects for mental illness and for ASD.

 

[stickgirl390]

I’m pretty sure med school selects for mental illness and for ASD.

Hijacking thread for a quick second:

I was thinking “oh I wish I was in the club like @Goro @gyngyn and @Matthew9Thirtyfive by having my profile pic be a cat” and then my idiot self realized I’ve been a cat this WHOLE time!

Ok, back to your regularly schedule program

 

[Damson]

in the club too

 

[allseasons]

I got a B+ in biochem this semester and will probably get a B+ or A- in physics 1. This semester has been the absolute worst considering I got A's in ochem 1 and 2 and only got a B+ in a science course from freshman year. At the start of this semester I had a 3.91 gpa now it's going to drop. How should I explain to adcoms about this when I apply? I'm currently a junior. I probably sound very neurotic, but this semester has been an absolute **** show and I think my mental health has gone bad but don't know if that's a reasonable excuse.

Bruh I kind of freaked out when I got my first and only A-, which "ruined" my 4.0. However, I had the self-awareness not to post it online lol. Please don't try to explain this, it will not come off well.

 

[Goro]

I got a B+ in biochem this semester and will probably get a B+ or A- in physics 1. This semester has been the absolute worst considering I got A's in ochem 1 and 2 and only got a B+ in a science course from freshman year. At the start of this semester I had a 3.91 gpa now it's going to drop. How should I explain to adcoms about this when I apply? I'm currently a junior. I probably sound very neurotic, but this semester has been an absolute **** show and I think my mental health has gone bad but don't know if that's a reasonable excuse.

OP, your grades are not a measurement of your worth as a human being, nor do they define you as a person.

 

[lacrossegirl420]

current MS1 here. you're not being neurotic. for several top schools, 3.8x is very low (e.g. NYU, UPenn). as long as the rest of your app is good though I think you'll be fine. if you're not aiming for top schools, 3.8x is fine.
no need to explain anything to ad coms

 

[Mr.Smile12]

As Aaron Rodgers says, R. E. L. A. X. Admissions offices are not confessionals.

And may a stream of cat/kitten memes attacking Christmas trees help your mood. Otherwise, talk to a professional who can really tell you if you have a mental health issue that requires real treatment.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

current MS1 here. you're not being neurotic. for several top schools, 3.8x is very low (e.g. NYU, UPenn). as long as the rest of your app is good though I think you'll be fine. if you're not aiming for top schools, 3.8x is fine.
no need to explain anything to ad coms

This is ludicrous. There is not a med school where a 3.8x is “very low.”

 

[Sleepingdoc]

-

 

[KnightDoc]

This is ludicrous. There is not a med school where a 3.8x is “very low.”

Not even one where the median is 3.95, the 25%-ile is 3.90, and the 10%-ile is 3.81? I respectfully disagree! 10%-ile is, by definition, "very low" for all schools (below 90% of successful applicants), regardless of what the absolute value of the number happens to be.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Not even one where the median is 3.95, the 25%-ile is 3.90, and the 10%-ile is 3.81? I respectfully disagree! 10%-ile is, by definition, "very low" for all schools (below 90% of successful applicants), regardless of what the absolute value of the number happens to be.

I haven’t had access to the MSAR for years now, but even if those are the actual stats, then still no. A 3.8x is still not very low, because at the very extremes of the range, you are going to have a significant crowding of GPAs that will make it look like a 3.81 is a very low GPA for that school. But at those GPA levels, your returns for another hundredth of a point diminishes. So while at a school with a 10th%ile GPA of 3.6, a GPA of 3.61 would be on the lower end, when all your accepted GPAs are in the 3.8x and 3.9x range (and 4.0), that same principle doesn’t really apply. No one is getting rejected from Harvard for having a 3.81.

 

[CuriousMDStudent]

I remember being in your exact shoes, OP. The answer. You don't explain it to adcoms. A B+ is not something you explain. That's just sound over the top.

I understand your frustration. With the average to get in being like a 3.7. Anything less than an A- is considered weak now. Just take a break during winter break and try to do better next semester.

I remember that stress in college of needing to get an A on everything. Man.

 

[KnightDoc]

I haven’t had access to the MSAR for years now, but even if those are the actual stats, then still no. A 3.8x is still not very low, because at the very extremes of the range, you are going to have a significant crowding of GPAs that will make it look like a 3.81 is a very low GPA for that school. But at those GPA levels, your returns for another hundredth of a point diminishes. So while at a school with a 10th%ile GPA of 3.6, a GPA of 3.61 would be on the lower end, when all your accepted GPAs are in the 3.8x and 3.9x range (and 4.0), that same principle doesn’t really apply. No one is getting rejected from Harvard for having a 3.81.

Those are, in fact, the numbers at NYU. Penn has very similar numbers. I didn't check every school, but Harvard's 10%-ile is 3.78.

It might simply be semantics but, while no one might be rejected at NYU for having a 3.81, it turns out only around 13 out of 135 applicants are accepted with that GPA or below. Is it really nothing more than a coincidence that 90% of its successful applicants happen to have GPAs above that number?

It is probably worth keeping in mind that the bunching at these top schools is at 4.0, not 3.8 or even 3.9. The MEDIAN is 3.95 -- half of all accepted applicants are above that, the 25%-ile is 3.90, the 75%-ile is 3.99, and the 90%-ile is actually 4.0. As a result, 3.81 IS a significant deviation from the vast majority of successful candidates.

Believe it or not, the difference between a 3.81 and a 3.95 at a tippy top school (or 3.78 and 3.94 at Harvard), is exactly the same as the difference between a 3.44 and a 3.76 at your school. Is that also insignificant, in the eyes of your administration? If so, why is it so difficult to be successful with a GPA below 3.6? At a school like NYU, the relevant number is 3.9, not 3.6, and those few Bs spread over an entire UG transcript actually represents the difference between being at the median and the very bottom of the class.

 

[allseasons]

Those are, in fact, the numbers at NYU. Penn has very similar numbers. I didn't check every school, but Harvard's 10%-ile is 3.78.

It might simply be semantics but, while no one might be rejected at NYU for having a 3.81, it turns out only around 13 out of 135 applicants are accepted with that GPA or below. Is it really nothing more than a coincidence that 90% of its successful applicants happen to have GPAs above that number?

It is probably worth keeping in mind that the bunching at these top schools is at 4.0, not 3.8 or even 3.9. The MEDIAN is 3.95 -- half of all accepted applicants are above that, the 25%-ile is 3.90, the 75%-ile is 3.99, and the 90%-ile is actually 4.0. As a result, 3.81 IS a significant deviation from the vast majority of successful candidates.

Believe it or not, the difference between a 3.81 and a 3.95 at a tippy top school (or 3.78 and 3.94 at Harvard), is exactly the same as the difference between a 3.44 and a 3.76 at your school. Is that also insignificant, in the eyes of your administration? If so, why is it so difficult to be successful with a GPA below 3.6? At a school like NYU, the relevant number is 3.9, not 3.6, and those few Bs spread over an entire UG transcript actually represents the difference between being at the median and the very bottom of the class.

Yea, I agree with you. The average GPA is now 3.81 for matriculants (no doubt the inflation was driven by pass/fail, but this is the relevant number for now). A 3.9+ GPA is now what marks the "doesn't make a difference", not 3.8+.
On a side note, from observing my friends' outcomes and my own, I think the "doesn't make a difference" for the MCAT has shifted from a 518+ to a 520+.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yea, I agree with you. The average GPA is now 3.81 for matriculants (no doubt the inflation was driven by pass/fail, but this is the relevant number for now). A 3.9+ GPA is now what marks the "doesn't make a difference", not 3.8+.
On a side note, from observing my friends' outcomes and my own, I think the "doesn't make a difference" for the MCAT has shifted from a 518+ to a 520+.

Everything you're saying is true. But the point I was trying to make really only applies to the top schools, which are probably also the schools you are talking about.

@Matthew9Thirtyfive's points are definitely valid at most schools. My whole point was that there are, in fact, schools at which 3.8x is "very low," even if that doesn't apply to the vast majority of schools. At most schools, the "doesn't make a difference" for the MCAT is still well below 520+. Didn't someone in the Duke thread post that number was something like 512?

 

[allseasons]

Everything you're saying is true. But the point I was trying to make really only applies to the top schools, which are probably also the schools you are talking about.

@Matthew9Thirtyfive's points are definitely valid at most schools. My whole point was that there are, in fact, schools at which 3.8x is "very low," even if that doesn't apply to the vast majority of schools. At most schools, the "doesn't make a difference" for the MCAT is still well below 520+. Didn't someone in the Duke thread post that number was something like 512?

That was me, actually haha.
And yea, definitely agreed on all points. I was only talking about top schools, and even then only most, not all (as Duke claims otherwise; Pitt and cclcm are other exceptions).

 

[KnightDoc]

That was me, actually haha.
And yea, definitely agreed on all points. I was only talking about top schools, and even then only most, not all (as Duke claims otherwise; Pitt and cclcm are other exceptions).

Yeah, I just found it. The actual number was "above 510"!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Those are, in fact, the numbers at NYU. Penn has very similar numbers. I didn't check every school, but Harvard's 10%-ile is 3.78.

It might simply be semantics but, while no one might be rejected at NYU for having a 3.81, it turns out only around 13 out of 135 applicants are accepted with that GPA or below. Is it really nothing more than a coincidence that 90% of its successful applicants happen to have GPAs above that number?

It is probably worth keeping in mind that the bunching at these top schools is at 4.0, not 3.8 or even 3.9. The MEDIAN is 3.95 -- half of all accepted applicants are above that, the 25%-ile is 3.90, the 75%-ile is 3.99, and the 90%-ile is actually 4.0. As a result, 3.81 IS a significant deviation from the vast majority of successful candidates.

Believe it or not, the difference between a 3.81 and a 3.95 at a tippy top school (or 3.78 and 3.94 at Harvard), is exactly the same as the difference between a 3.44 and a 3.76 at your school. Is that also insignificant, in the eyes of your administration? If so, why is it so difficult to be successful with a GPA below 3.6? At a school like NYU, the relevant number is 3.9, not 3.6, and those few Bs spread over an entire UG transcript actually represents the difference between being at the median and the very bottom of the class.

Yes I have a math degree. I know what a median is. Again, you are not getting rejected at nyu for having a 3.81. Maybe having a 3.81 and a mediocre app otherwise or a 3.81 and a low mcat.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes I have a math degree. I know what a median is. Again, you are not getting rejected at nyu for having a 3.81. Maybe having a 3.81 and a mediocre app otherwise or a 3.81 and a low mcat.

You might not be getting rejected, but you're also not being accepted!

The numbers tell the story. Let's face it -- 3.8, 3.9, 4.0 are all very excellent GPAs. How can it be that such a small percentage of its 3.8 GPA applicants among the 10,000 people applying have acceptable applications as compared to its 3.9 and 4.0 applicants? The only thing sub par for many of them is the missing 0.15 in their GPA, plus the missing MCAT points below 522 that NYU seems to care about so much!

Only 25% of their admitted applicants have a GPA at or below 3.90, and only 10% at or below 3.81. No matter how you slice it, 3.81 is a "very low" GPA for them, and you really don't get into diminishing returns for 0.01 increments in GPA until you are around 3.95. Certainly not 3.81, even though that might be typical at most schools.

 

[deleted1114112]

My friend got into a T5 this cycle with a C- on their transcript because during an online final all of their answers got shifted one question down after they went back to the beginning to change an answer (or so they claim)...they got like a 23% on it. No way to prove what happened and the professor wouldn't take excuses so there ya have it. Anyways your MCAT is probably more important past a 3.8. Merry Christmas.

 

[allseasons]

My friend got into a T5 this cycle with a C- on their transcript because during an online final all of their answers got shifted one question down after they went back to the beginning to change an answer (or so they claim)...they got like a 23% on it. No way to prove what happened and the professor wouldn't take excuses so there ya have it. Anyways your MCAT is probably more important past a 3.8. Merry Christmas.

what site was used?
tbh there's a pretty easy way to prove it, but I would estimate only about 60% or so of professors I have had would be willing to consider it after initially complaining without pursuing further action.

 

[deleted1114112]

what site was used?
tbh there's a pretty easy way to prove it, but I would estimate only about 60% or so of professors I have had would be willing to consider it after initially complaining without pursuing further action.

I have no idea, I was not in the class. I was just hearing an earful for like a week straight and he showed me the professors email response which was more entertaining for me than anything. I assume they weren't revealing the whole story (maybe caught cheating, maybe they actually just did not study and failed it, idk) but just a C- on transcript with no IA from what I saw and know lol. It was an upper-level course known to be easy which made the whole situation even more funny.

 

[allseasons]

I have no idea, I was not in the class. I was just hearing an earful for like a week straight and he showed me the professors email response which was more entertaining for me than anything. I assume they weren't revealing the whole story (maybe caught cheating, maybe they actually just did not study and failed it, idk) but just a C- on transcript with no IA from what I saw and know lol. It was an upper-level course known to be easy which made the whole situation even more funny.

yea, cause I imagine any reasonable person can tell if the answers shifted down:

The Actual Answers: A B C D A B C D
Your Answers: D A B C D A B C

LOL

 

[kat.medu123]

This is ludicrous. There is not a med school where a 3.8x is “very low.”

Yeah when I read that I was like... seriously? I'm sure there are many many people with that gpa that got into a top school. And a 3.8x isn't even low... Besides, my ultimate goal isn't to get into Harvard. I'm fine with any med school in the end

 

[kat.medu123]

OP, your grades are not a measurement of your worth as a human being, nor do they define you as a person.

Thank you! Needed that. My whole life ever since middle school has been defined by my grades. I feel like the only way I can be accepted by others is only through my intellectual abilities. My mind is so messed up

 

[kat.medu123]

I remember being in your exact shoes, OP. The answer. You don't explain it to adcoms. A B+ is not something you explain. That's just sound over the top.

I understand your frustration. With the average to get in being like a 3.7. Anything less than an A- is considered weak now. Just take a break during winter break and try to do better next semester.

I remember that stress in college of needing to get an A on everything. Man.

Thank you :')