Reading this site makes me nervous!

[nontradv]

Hi all,
I am new to SDN. I am currently finishing up the last of my prereqs (orgo II and phyII in the spring), and thought that I would be a sureshot given my profile, but now, after reading a few of these posts, I'm not so sure!

I anticipate entering for the 2011/2012. I will finish with a bcmp gpa somewhere around a 3.5/3.6, a total ugpa of somewhere around 3.7/3.8, and a masters gpa of 3.9. I was a fellow at a major university in the arts and have had a reasonably successful career given my young age; I will be 26 upon entering med school. My undergrad grades were solid, but I anticipate that my postbac grades will be a 4.0. I will take the mcat in June of 2010 (kaplan starts in jan!). I have worked on two major studies, have clinical experience, real life experience (including a J-O-B not related to the sciences), and will be employed again on a study after I take the MCAT.

A few questions:

1. Will an extremely high MCAT (36+) make up for my solid but not exceptional grades?

2. Will admissions committees seriously not care at all about my non-science masters, my fellowship, and career in the arts?

3. Given that I will do decently to decently well on the MCAT, within in what school ranges will I safely land? Where should I focus my search, and do I have a shot at an exceptional program?

Thanks!!

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[ArkansasRanger]

Hi all,
I am new to SDN. I am currently finishing up the last of my prereqs (orgo II and phyII in the spring), and thought that I would be a sureshot given my profile, but now, after reading a few of these posts, I'm not so sure!

I anticipate entering for the 2011/2012. I will finish with a bcmp gpa somewhere around a 3.5/3.6, a total ugpa of somewhere around 3.7/3.8, and a masters gpa of 3.9. I was a fellow at a major university in the arts and have had a reasonably successful career given my young age; I will be 26 upon entering med school. My undergrad grades were solid, but I anticipate that my postbac grades will be a 4.0. I will take the mcat in June of 2010 (kaplan starts in jan!). I have worked on two major studies, have clinical experience, real life experience (including a J-O-B not related to the sciences), and will be employed again on a study after I take the MCAT.

A few questions:

1. Will an extremely high MCAT (36+) make up for my solid but not exceptional grades?

2. Will admissions committees seriously not care at all about my non-science masters, my fellowship, and career in the arts?

3. Given that I will do decently to decently well on the MCAT, within in what school ranges will I safely land? Where should I focus my search, and do I have a shot at an exceptional program?

Thanks!!

Take everything here with a grain of salt.

With your stats you're cake. Don't sweat it.

The only way you'll screw up is if you have a total jackass personality.

You'll make it.

Good luck.

 

[beckhunter116]

I agree to take everything on here with a grain of salt, but I think it is foolhardy to think that anyone is cake--what SDN should show everyone is that there are tips to make your chances better.

1) Apply early!
2) Sell your unique background to the best of your ability.
3) Apply to a wide range of schools.
4) Do not underestimate the MCAT.

Those are probably the best tips you can get from SDN, and hopefully you can relieve some stress by realizing everyone here understands what an undertaking applying to and succeeding in med schools is. Good luck!

 

[ArmyAU]

Take everything here with a grain of salt.

With your stats you're cake. Don't sweat it.

The only way you'll screw up is if you have a total jackass personality.

You'll make it.

Good luck.

haha. Awesome.

 

[The right Path]

I felt so confident, too, before reading this site. Now, definitely not so much! I'm going for it though and channeling my energy into my best chances for success.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Don't let it bring you down, guys. After a couple months here I felt the same way too, and then I got over it. Each person is unique and in a unique position.

 

[Crelal]

One piece of advice, as a current med student:

take upper level science courses.

Seriously. There is a lot of emphasis on "diverse majors" and how great it is to have X, Y, and Z background and how you don't need to be a Biochem/Cell Bio/Bio major to get to med school.

They are right about one thing, you don't need it to get here, but it does help.

Our biochem majors will tell you they don't think their background has helped them that much. Coming with the unique experience of having a degree in social work and a second one in human bio, I can honestly say this year would have been SO MUCH harder had I not had the upper level courses.

About your questions:

your stats are okay- kill the MCAT and you should be alright.

Admissions committees will want to know two things of you: 1. Why medicine now? and 2. Can you handle a full course load of upper level science courses?

Schools to focus on depends on your situation and your IS school(s). If you are from Cali, you have to apply broadly. If you have a state school close by, that may be the best option. AAMC publishes data on schools and their applicants/interviewees/accepted/matriculated stats.

And don't get freaked out by SDN. Be confident in your abilities!

 

[QofQuimica]

I am new to SDN. I am currently finishing up the last of my prereqs (orgo II and phyII in the spring), and thought that I would be a sureshot given my profile, but now, after reading a few of these posts, I'm not so sure!

You may not see it this way right now, but your change in level of assuredness is actually a good thing. You aren't a sure shot, and neither is anyone else. Going into this process with the assumption that you will be a sure shot is a great way to help ensure that you will be a sure non-shot. That being said, you shouldn't go too far the other way and figure that you have no shot, either.

You need to understand that there is a great deal of subjectivity inherent in the medical school admissions process. People on SDN often try to explain this subjectivity objectively, which is an exercise in futility. In addition, you won't ever see the entire picture of another applicant's strength on SDN. You don't even see the entire picture of your own application's strength, since you don't ever get to read your own LORs or interview feedback. For all of these reasons, comparing yourself against other people, either on SDN or in real life, is an even bigger exercise in futility.

1. Will an extremely high MCAT (36+) make up for my solid but not exceptional grades?

Nothing makes up for anything else in medical school admissions. Your goal should be to make your entire application as strong as you possibly can before applying, not count on one stellar part of your app making up for another not-so-stellar part. To give you some perspective, however, your grades are average, not low, for allopathic medical school admissions. While no adcom is going to be wowed based on your GPA, it won't be a deal-breaker either if the rest of your app is strong.

2. Will admissions committees seriously not care at all about my non-science masters, my fellowship, and career in the arts?

I have no idea why you would come to this conclusion. Whoever, or whatever, gave you the idea that other ECs and life experience don't matter to adcoms was smoking the bad stuff. Assuming your prereqs are in order and your stats are competitive, having other strong and interesting ECs that you are passionate about can only help you. Believe me, we could easily fill our entire incoming class with students who have 3.8+ GPAs and 35+ MCAT scores if we wanted to do that. But while those kinds of stats will certainly get someone's app a look, they are neither necessary nor sufficient to gain admission to my med school.

3. Given that I will do decently to decently well on the MCAT, within in what school ranges will I safely land? Where should I focus my search, and do I have a shot at an exceptional program?

First, do not take doing well on the MCAT for granted. Until you get your actual score, or at least take some timed practice tests, this is yet another one of those things that you should not see as a "sure shot".

As for where to apply, you should focus on schools whose missions match your career goals, that are in geographical locations where you are willing to live, and that accept residents of your state. You can find out all of this information by buying or checking out a copy of the MSAR, which is put out by the AAMC every spring. For most people, including most nontrads, your state schools will be your best bet.

Take everything here with a grain of salt.

With your stats you're cake. Don't sweat it.

The only way you'll screw up is if you have a total jackass personality.

You'll make it.

Good luck.

AR, while I'm sure the OP appreciates your unreserved support, unfortunately, no one is "cake" when it comes to medical school admissions. I say this as someone who applied with a 4.0 GPA for my PhD and a 43 MCAT, and still got rejected from about 1/3 of my schools. Lest you be tempted to knock my obvious jacka** personality flaws, some of the rejections were even pre-interview.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

You may not see it this way right now, but your change in level of assuredness is actually a good thing. You aren't a sure shot, and neither is anyone else. Going into this process with the assumption that you will be a sure shot is a great way to help ensure that you will be a sure non-shot. That being said, you shouldn't go too far the other way and figure that you have no shot, either.

You need to understand that there is a great deal of subjectivity inherent in the medical school admissions process. People on SDN often try to explain this subjectivity objectively, which is an exercise in futility. In addition, you won't ever see the entire picture of another applicant's strength on SDN. You don't even see the entire picture of your own application's strength, since you don't ever get to read your own LORs or interview feedback. For all of these reasons, comparing yourself against other people, either on SDN or in real life, is an even bigger exercise in futility.


Nothing makes up for anything else in medical school admissions. Your goal should be to make your entire application as strong as you possibly can before applying, not count on one stellar part of your app making up for another not-so-stellar part. To give you some perspective, however, your grades are average, not low, for allopathic medical school admissions. While no adcom is going to be wowed based on your GPA, it won't be a deal-breaker either if the rest of your app is strong.


I have no idea why you would come to this conclusion. Whoever, or whatever, gave you the idea that other ECs and life experience don't matter to adcoms was smoking the bad stuff. Assuming your prereqs are in order and your stats are competitive, having other strong and interesting ECs that you are passionate about can only help you. Believe me, we could easily fill our entire incoming class with students who have 3.8+ GPAs and 35+ MCAT scores if we wanted to do that. But while those kinds of stats will certainly get someone's app a look, they are neither necessary nor sufficient to gain admission to my med school.


First, do not take doing well on the MCAT for granted. Until you get your actual score, or at least take some timed practice tests, this is yet another one of those things that you should not see as a "sure shot".

As for where to apply, you should focus on schools whose missions match your career goals, that are in geographical locations where you are willing to live, and that accept residents of your state. You can find out all of this information by buying or checking out a copy of the MSAR, which is put out by the AAMC every spring. For most people, including most nontrads, your state schools will be your best bet.


AR, while I'm sure the OP appreciates your unreserved support, unfortunately, no one is "cake" when it comes to medical school admissions. I say this as someone who applied with a 4.0 GPA for my PhD and a 43 MCAT, and still got rejected from about 1/3 of my schools. Lest you be tempted to knock my obvious jacka** personality flaws, some of the rejections were even pre-interview.

No, I think a lot of people get intimidated by the entire process. A little positive encouragement from me isn't going to come close to negating all the huff on SDN or what is heard or read elsewhere. Heck, it's similar to why I gave up eight years ago, but now I'm back and I'll get there. I can't give advice on getting into medical school, and neither can any other premed on here or anywhere else because we've never been there. With all the negatives and hardships that will be encountered some friendly and positive encouragement will only make ambitions last longer. It's a good thing, Q.

 

[QofQuimica]

No, I think a lot of people get intimidated by the entire process. A little positive encouragement from me isn't going to come close to negating all the huff on SDN or what is heard or read elsewhere. Heck, it's similar to why I gave up eight years ago, but now I'm back and I'll get there. I can't give advice on getting into medical school, and neither can any other premed on here or anywhere else because we've never been there. With all the negatives and hardships that will be encountered some friendly and positive encouragement will only make ambitions last longer. It's a good thing, Q.

It's understandable; the process *is* intimidating. It was intimidating to me, too, enough so that now, four years later, I'm still trying to help other people navigate it. What do you think got me interested in joining the adcom in the first place? That being said, it's important for people to understand that getting into medical school is really hard. That doesn't mean it can't be done, or that you have to be perfect to succeed. But it does mean that you should take it seriously: do your homework to educate yourself about the process; really do your best to present yourself in the most polished way possible; and understand that you will almost certainly not just coast your way into (never mind through) any medical school.

FWIW, I sincerely hope that you, the OP, and every other nontrad in this forum who wants to go to medical school gets the opportunity. I sincerely believe that nontrads add an element to each class that improves everyone's educational experience, and I make it my business to advocate to my school's adcom on behalf of competitive nontrad applicants. But advocacy can't make an uncompetitive application suddenly become a competitive one.

What I'm trying to say here is, if you're going to apply to medical school, then apply to medical school like you really mean it. Adcoms help those who help themselves.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

It's understandable; the process *is* intimidating. It was intimidating to me, too, enough so that now, four years later, I'm still trying to help other people navigate it. What do you think got me interested in joining the adcom in the first place? That being said, it's important for people to understand that getting into medical school is really hard. That doesn't mean it can't be done, or that you have to be perfect to succeed. But it does mean that you should take it seriously: do your homework to educate yourself about the process; really do your best to present yourself in the most polished way possible; and understand that you will almost certainly not just coast your way into (never mind through) any medical school.

FWIW, I sincerely hope that you, the OP, and every other nontrad in this forum who wants to go to medical school gets the opportunity. I sincerely believe that nontrads add an element to each class that improves everyone's educational experience, and I make it my business to advocate to my school's adcom on behalf of competitive nontrad applicants. But advocacy can't make an uncompetitive application suddenly become a competitive one.

What I'm trying to say here is, if you're going to apply to medical school, then apply to medical school like you really mean it. Adcoms help those who help themselves.

best reply I've ever seen here. GO Q!

 

[nontradv]

Well, I thank you all for your thoughts - very motivational to kick some major ass for the next few months!! Basically, I am under the impression that admission is a crapshoot, so I will say many prayers in the next few months!

A few more questions...

- I am planning on taking a few classes over the summer, as well as during the fall (cell molec, microbio, genetics, etc.) I know that the summer classes will factor into my science gpa before my transcripts go out, but how will the fall classes factor in? I am taking them to both ready myself a little bit more for the first year of med school and to keep boostin' that gpa!

- I have twin C's in calc I and calc II - woe is me, but what do I do about these? Retake the classes or try and explain my way out of them? Will the adcoms take into account that the 4 Cs on my transcripts were products of a 17 year old's first taste of freedom and that my most recent GPA's (grad school and post bac) are a 3.9 and a 4.0?

Sorry to be so neeeeeeedy when it comes to your advice!

 

[QofQuimica]

Well, I thank you all for your thoughts - very motivational to kick some major ass for the next few months!! Basically, I am under the impression that admission is a crapshoot, so I will say many prayers in the next few months!

It's not a crapshoot (i.e., based on chance), but it *is* highly subjective.

- I am planning on taking a few classes over the summer, as well as during the fall (cell molec, microbio, genetics, etc.) I know that the summer classes will factor into my science gpa before my transcripts go out, but how will the fall classes factor in? I am taking them to both ready myself a little bit more for the first year of med school and to keep boostin' that gpa!

You shouldn't have your summer classes factoring into your AMCAS GPA, because you are going to apply early, in June or July at the latest. Right?

In all seriousness, don't wait for your summer grades to come in before applying. Interviews and acceptances are offered on a rolling basis (i.e., as the apps are received) at most schools. AMCAS allows you to input all classes in progress, so the schools will know that you're still taking classes. Also, you can update the schools later with your summer and fall semester grades once you get them.

- I have twin C's in calc I and calc II - woe is me, but what do I do about these? Retake the classes or try and explain my way out of them? Will the adcoms take into account that the 4 Cs on my transcripts were products of a 17 year old's first taste of freedom and that my most recent GPA's (grad school and post bac) are a 3.9 and a 4.0?

Tough call. I'm inclined to say that since calculus is not a prereq and you're already taking upper level science courses, I'd leave them alone. When I say this, I'm assuming that you're only applying to allo schools. If you're applying to osteo schools also, you should give serious thought to retaking the calc classes, because AACOMAS allows grade replacement. Thus, you could significantly raise your GPA by retaking calculus in that case.

How medical schools evaluate grades varies. My school is one of the ones that does look at trends. In other words, the adcom would take into account the improvement by someone like you who had a rough freshman year but then later made good. A 4.0 postbac GPA is certainly a nice improvement in anyone's book!

In anticipation of your next question, yes, we do know what the applicants' yearly GPAs are. AMCAS gives us the overall GPAs, separate GPAs for each year of college, and also separate postbac GPAs.

Sorry to be so neeeeeeedy when it comes to your advice!

Well, consider it fair payment for AR chastising me for being too discouraging.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Well, consider it fair payment for AR chastising me for being too discouraging.

You didn't see my other reply to your other reply (*chuckling*) did you?

 

[QofQuimica]

You didn't see my other reply to your other reply (*chuckling*) did you?

Oh, I did. I just was acknowledging that maybe my first post did seem kind of discouraging, even though that wasn't my intention. False hope is a bad thing, but so is false despair.

 

[ArkansasRanger]

Oh, I did. I just was acknowledging that maybe my first post did seem kind of discouraging, even though that wasn't my intention. False hope is a bad thing, but so is false despair.

Right on! When I was in college I was infected with false despair so I gave up.