Reality Check: Low GPA, decent PCAT

[sudenga]

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Hello,

I'm wondering what my chances of getting into pharmacy school actually look like. When I first started school I didn't care about doing well and I didn't know I'd eventually want to become a pharmacist (I was young and stupid). I've received C's in organic chemistry, biochemistry, and physics. Here's my standing: Overall GPA: 2.8, Prereq GPA: 3.1 (giving myself the low end; not counting liberal arts and general electives, and some schools don't require some classes where I've received C's), and last 60 units: 3.5. There were two quarters where I stopped going to certain classes and received two F's: one in the history of China and the other in the Physics I.

PCAT scores as of September 2012 tests:
Verbal - 78
Biology - 77 (expected much better)
Reading - 32 (spent all my time on the difficult passage, severely cutting time on the rest of the section)
Quantitative - 82
Chemistry - 97
Composite - 85

I'm waiting for my official results to turn in applications and these will be the scores sent. I don't think it's necessary to retake, but I'm open to opinions. I'm applying to 11 schools where I feel I have the best chances of getting in. I believe I have an even chance of getting in where the interview will make or break me. What do all of you think? Thank you in advance.

 

[successful89]

what materials did you use to study?

 

[thefarthestside]

If you have experience in pharmacy and other extracurricular activities I think you'll have a chance of getting an interview.

 

[sudenga]

If you have experience in pharmacy and other extracurricular activities I think you'll have a chance of getting an interview.

I've been volunteering at an out-patient pharmacy for a little over a month now and will continue to volunteer until the end of summer. I also have a national technician's license and I'm currently applying for the state license. I'm getting strong recommendation letters from two professors and the head pharmacist as well. I'll have an additional letter from another professor but I think he just uses a template for each student regardless of how well they performed in his class, so I'm not sure if I should even ask him for this letter.

 

[sudenga]

what materials did you use to study?

I think this should be separated. And so, it is. I apologize for the double post.

I went through entire the Dr. Collins packet and used some of the Kaplan book, along with the official practice tests. My Kaplan book wasn't recent though and I should have updated it. The official practice tests were the most useful. I neglected to use them for efficient time use and that brought my score much lower than I expected it to be, especially in quantitative and reading comprehension. I'd say the most important aspect of the Dr. Collins packet is the shortcuts they give. It really helps in the quantitative section.

For verbal, a lot of it was being comfortable with the format of analogies, but vocabulary plays the largest role. You can Google websites that give good tips on how to solve analogies. Being comfortable with the format allowed me to instantly eliminate some of the choices. I'd recommend practicing as many examples as you can. I have a limited vocabulary and managed to do alright.

The biology section I expected to do so much better; I didn't think I'd get anything below the 90's. I was scoring 95-98% on each of the practice tests and just finished all of my biology courses this last year. I can't say this for sure, but I think a more recent edition of Kaplan would have been sufficient. There were very specific genetics problems on the test that I only would have known if I had taken genetics, which I haven't. There were also specific questions in microbiology and physiology that I didn't expect needed to be brushed up on.

I thought the chemistry was easy: 90% gen-chem and the basics of o-chem. My professor at the beginning of this quarter gave us ALEKS courses that helped tremendously with specifics. The Dr. Collins packet had a decent review and the practice tests were useful. Polish your knowledge of bonding.

Reading comprehension was a total failure. All study guides give you advice on time management and state that if there are difficult problems, skip them and come back later; I needed to use this here. One of the passages was very difficult and took up most of my time. Had I skipped these 6-8 questions, I could have more than doubled my score. None of the other passages were even close to this hard. I only left myself 5 minutes per passage for the rest of the section. I was speed reading and didn't get to fully analyze the question; I just picked an answer and moved on.

The quantitative material is not hard, they just take a lot of time. For material, the official practice tests are just about exactly what they are on the exam. However, again, the most important factor is time management. I had about 10 questions left in my final 3 minutes. I had to choose random answers and then go back and do the questions that didn't require that much time. Dr. Collins had tips to do problems much faster but the section was just so different from the material they emphasize in the packet. Take the practice tests multiple times. Even if you know the exact answers, being able to compute them fast enough is key. Try to fully do the problems while timing yourself and find shortcuts so that you become faster.

General advice: time yourself. When the clock's running down and you know you're not at the pace you want, you tend to panic. Well, at least I do. Avoid this by timing yourself when taking practice test. Skip time consuming and difficult questions and come back later. Sometimes answering the easier questions will give you a confidence boost. Either way, having sufficient time for the easy questions is far more productive than wasting time on difficult questions. Also, pick up a detailed study guide for biology. The more detailed the book, the better off you are. Utilize the practice tests. They're official and nothing comes closer to the actual test. Though, this doesn't apply to the biology section. This goes without saying but I'll say it anyway-- study. Confidence can carry you a long way. I only studied for a week and even that caused immense improvements. This forum is a perfect example showing the longer you study, the better you perform.

This advice may not seem that valid because I only received a decent score, but I learned all of this while taking the test. I feel that if I had known these key points when I was studying for the test, it could have made a huge difference. I hope this helps. Good luck on your test.

I didn't proofread this. I hope it makes sense.

 

[jerbearox]

I think this should be separated. And so, it is. I apologize for the double post.

I went through entire the Dr. Collins packet and used some of the Kaplan book, along with the official practice tests. My Kaplan book wasn't recent though and I should have updated it. The official practice tests were the most useful. I neglected to use them for efficient time use and that brought my score much lower than I expected it to be, especially in quantitative and reading comprehension. I'd say the most important aspect of the Dr. Collins packet is the shortcuts they give. It really helps in the quantitative section.

For verbal, a lot of it was being comfortable with the format of analogies, but vocabulary plays the largest role. You can Google websites that give good tips on how to solve analogies. Being comfortable with the format allowed me to instantly eliminate some of the choices. I'd recommend practicing as many examples as you can. I have a limited vocabulary and managed to do alright.

The biology section I expected to do so much better; I didn't think I'd get anything below the 90's. I was scoring 95-98% on each of the practice tests and just finished all of my biology courses this last year. I can't say this for sure, but I think a more recent edition of Kaplan would have been sufficient. There were very specific genetics problems on the test that I only would have known if I had taken genetics, which I haven't. There were also specific questions in microbiology and physiology that I didn't expect needed to be brushed up on.

I thought the chemistry was easy: 90% gen-chem and the basics of o-chem. My professor at the beginning of this quarter gave us ALEKS courses that helped tremendously with specifics. The Dr. Collins packet had a decent review and the practice tests were useful. Polish your knowledge of bonding.

Reading comprehension was a total failure. All study guides give you advice on time management and state that if there are difficult problems, skip them and come back later; I needed to use this here. One of the passages was very difficult and took up most of my time. Had I skipped these 6-8 questions, I could have more than doubled my score. None of the other passages were even close to this hard. I only left myself 5 minutes per passage for the rest of the section. I was speed reading and didn't get to fully analyze the question; I just picked an answer and moved on.

The quantitative material is not hard, they just take a lot of time. For material, the official practice tests are just about exactly what they are on the exam. However, again, the most important factor is time management. I had about 10 questions left in my final 3 minutes. I had to choose random answers and then go back and do the questions that didn't require that much time. Dr. Collins had tips to do problems much faster but the section was just so different from the material they emphasize in the packet. Take the practice tests multiple times. Even if you know the exact answers, being able to compute them fast enough is key. Try to fully do the problems while timing yourself and find shortcuts so that you become faster.

General advice: time yourself. When the clock's running down and you know you're not at the pace you want, you tend to panic. Well, at least I do. Avoid this by timing yourself when taking practice test. Skip time consuming and difficult questions and come back later. Sometimes answering the easier questions will give you a confidence boost. Either way, having sufficient time for the easy questions is far more productive than wasting time on difficult questions. Also, pick up a detailed study guide for biology. The more detailed the book, the better off you are. Utilize the practice tests. They're official and nothing comes closer to the actual test. Though, this doesn't apply to the biology section. This goes without saying but I'll say it anyway-- study. Confidence can carry you a long way. I only studied for a week and even that caused immense improvements. This forum is a perfect example showing the longer you study, the better you perform.

This advice may not seem that valid because I only received a decent score, but I learned all of this while taking the test. I feel that if I had known these key points when I was studying for the test, it could have made a huge difference. I hope this helps. Good luck on your test.

I didn't proofread this. I hope it makes sense.

another tip, dont wear the ear plugs that they give you! after getting defeated in reading comp and going straight into the math section you can literally hear your heart pounding!

 

[syl0sim]

I thought ear plugs helped ...?
Towards the end of math section 5 minutes left and I ran out of time so was frantically clicking and speed-calculating in my head at the same time. After I clicked my last answer I realized how annoying it would have been for people around me if they weren't wearing their ear plugs!
So my point is, it certainly depends on people 🙂. But be aware that the testing room will not be dead silent . There will be people clicking, typing, hyperventilating (yes ......I had one next to me) etc!

 

[sudenga]

I was asking questions during the AACP Virtual Pharmacy School Fair and I asked three places what their average GPA and PCAT scores were, and they said their average GPA was around 3.05-3.1 and their average PCAT composite was 57-58. Some of the schools also said their program only looks at the composite score and not the subsections. This gave me a lot of confidence. Good luck to all of us.

 

[jerbearox]

I was asking questions during the AACP Virtual Pharmacy School Fair and I asked three places what their average GPA and PCAT scores were, and they said their average GPA was around 3.05-3.1 and their average PCAT composite was 57-58. Some of the schools also said their program only looks at the composite score and not the subsections. This gave me a lot of confidence. Good luck to all of us.

what school is this? i'm applying with a 2.73overall/2.77science and a 2.8/2.8 after the academic update but with a 92 pcat.

 

[Faultroll]

I was asking questions during the AACP Virtual Pharmacy School Fair and I asked three places what their average GPA and PCAT scores were, and they said their average GPA was around 3.05-3.1 and their average PCAT composite was 57-58. Some of the schools also said their program only looks at the composite score and not the subsections. This gave me a lot of confidence. Good luck to all of us.

Yea, which schools? =)

 

[88888888]

I was asking questions during the AACP Virtual Pharmacy School Fair and I asked three places what their average GPA and PCAT scores were, and they said their average GPA was around 3.05-3.1 and their average PCAT composite was 57-58. Some of the schools also said their program only looks at the composite score and not the subsections. This gave me a lot of confidence. Good luck to all of us.

which schools?

 

[AlPacino]

Hello,

I'm wondering what my chances of getting into pharmacy school actually look like. When I first started school I didn't care about doing well and I didn't know I'd eventually want to become a pharmacist (I was young and stupid). I've received C's in organic chemistry, biochemistry, and physics. Here's my standing: Overall GPA: 2.8, Prereq GPA: 3.1 (giving myself the low end; not counting liberal arts and general electives, and some schools don't require some classes where I've received C's), and last 60 units: 3.5. There were two quarters where I stopped going to certain classes and received two F's: one in the history of China and the other in the Physics I.

PCAT scores as of September 2012 tests:
Verbal - 78
Biology - 77 (expected much better)
Reading - 32 (spent all my time on the difficult passage, severely cutting time on the rest of the section)
Quantitative - 82
Chemistry - 97
Composite - 85

I'm waiting for my official results to turn in applications and these will be the scores sent. I don't think it's necessary to retake, but I'm open to opinions. I'm applying to 11 schools where I feel I have the best chances of getting in. I believe I have an even chance of getting in where the interview will make or break me. What do all of you think? Thank you in advance.

With a 85 composite you will get some interviews. Ive yet to meet anybody with a 80+ PCAT that did not receive an interview.

 

[88888888]

With a 85 composite you will get some interviews. Ive yet to meet anybody with a 80+ PCAT that did not receive an interview.

Even with a 2.8?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using SDN Mobile

 

[AlPacino]

Even with a 2.8?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using SDN Mobile

If you have a 2.8SGPA and a 85+ PCAT, your going to get accepted somewhere.

 

[88888888]

If you have a 2.8SGPA and a 85+ PCAT, your going to get accepted somewhere.

Lol o

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile

 

[PlayRufioPlease]

Hey Sudenga,

Don't give up hope!
I have a 74 PCAT and 2.8 GPA and received a couple interview invitations (4). Similar to you my last 60 or so units I have a higher gpa of 3.80+
I have not attended any interviews yet.
I have a bachelor's in Biology and work experience in a pharmacy setting.
Keep your head up and apply early! Do not procrastinate!

 

[Sugoi Travis]

Even with a 2.8?

Sent from my SGH-T989 using SDN Mobile

Granted it is a lower-than-average GPA, but let's not be so hasty to rule out the fact that TS could be going to a university with a very competitive and rigorous science curriculum; he or she would be competing against some of the brightest students in a potentially curved class. An 85 on the PCAT is quite impressive and shows that he/she can recall a lot of information and apply concepts to a high degree.

 

[sudenga]

Just as an update, I applied to many schools where I had the requirements and they didn't give preference to in-state applicants. Out of the twelve I finished applications for, I received interviews for ten of them and attended three before getting accepted by my first interview. I'll be canceling the rest of the interviews I'd scheduled. The only places I didn't hear from were St. John Fisher college and West Coast University. Keep your heads up and work to supplement your application. I believe having a strong personal statement and PCAT played a large role in my success. Good luck.

 

[Wallace12]

Congratulations!!! Thanks for your story and updating everyone! I'm taking the pcat this summer and shooting for 80+.

 

[Skrumpy]

Congratulations!!! Thanks for your story and updating everyone! I'm taking the pcat this summer and shooting for 80+.

Ya congrats to the OP.. hope you've learned your lessons in undergrad and apply that to Pharm school!

BTW that is a good number to shoot for I think Wallace12. Even top schools I've looked at were only around 75-80% composite range so IMO an 80+ would be competitive.

 

[Wallace12]

I'm obviously expecting a 99% comp Skrumpy, but you know... Haha yeah my state school was 68% avg last year and my gpa is under their avg so I'd like to kill it. I'll be using Dr Collins and taking the pcat this summer

 

[Skrumpy]

I'm obviously expecting a 99% comp Skrumpy, but you know... Haha yeah my state school was 68% avg last year and my gpa is under their avg so I'd like to kill it. I'll be using Dr Collins and taking the pcat this summer

Aim for the sky! If you have time I suggest you check out the Princeton Review - Cracking the PCAT. It has a ton of additional useful information (time saving tips, drills, etc) aside from the academics (which you have Dr. Collins for) that will really help you the day of the exam. It's only $15.99 brand new so I'm sure you could find it for dirt cheap somewhere else. It's worth every penny IMO. Good luck to you on the exam!

 

[Wallace12]

Nice I might need to pick that up. I'm taking 2 classes during July when I take the pcat, but I might be dropping one of them so I can focus more on the test.

 

[pbmason]

Just as an update, I applied to many schools where I had the requirements and they didn't give preference to in-state applicants. Out of the twelve I finished applications for, I received interviews for ten of them and attended three before getting accepted by my first interview. I'll be canceling the rest of the interviews I'd scheduled. The only places I didn't hear from were St. John Fisher college and West Coast University. Keep your heads up and work to supplement your application. I believe having a strong personal statement and PCAT played a large role in my success. Good luck.

What schools did you apply to?

 

[sudenga]

I don't want to list specific schools because you should apply to any school you want to go to as long as you meet the requirements, and I don't want you to limit yourself to my list. If your GPA is low, really work on your PCAT to show you do have an understanding of the material and are competent. On your personal statement, talk about how you've learned from your mistakes--which I imagine you have--and how they've strengthened you. Also, sell your personality. I believe this part is why I received so many interviews. I even received interview invites from schools that I sent applications to and didn't finish their supplemental; they called asking if I was still interested. Remember though, information you include in your personal statement should always be backed up.

Apply early. Hound your professors to finish your LOR. Write and revise your personal statement multiple times. Have many people from many areas of expertise critique your personal statement for content and grammar. Most of all, stay positive. Having a negative attitude can lead to bad decisions, such as procrastination. Also, make sure you save enough money for applications, supplementals, and traveling. If you haven't traveled before, it can be very expensive. Book your flights, hotels, and rental cars early. Practice for your interviews until you are comfortable. Don't sound rehearsed and robotic. Be yourself during the interviews. I know it's difficult, but try not to be nervous. I was nervous for my first interview, but I managed to pull it together and I was accepted in the end. I wasn't nervous for the other two interviews and there was a noticeable difference in my presentation and the interviews were phenomenal. Find the school that best fits your needs and don't be afraid to ask the questions to gain this information. If anyone has anymore questions, just let me know.

 

[Wallace12]

Did you apply to mostly private schools, for the purpose of not favoring in state applicants? I am trying to make my list of schools to apply to and most are private or >25% accepted are out of state.

And I am having some trouble with planning/writing my PS. Mainly how to start it. How did you go about writing it? I'm planning on starting that pretty soon, I want to have everything finished and apply early this cycle.

 

[North Side]

In my opinion people with below 3.0 GPA's should not be allowed in pharmacy school. It lowers the overall quality of our profession. I would not want myself in pharmacy school if I had below a 3.0. That's not to say I am against retaking and proving that you do belong and are (smart/motivated/have enough time and emotion stability) to become a quality pharmacist to service others. Keep on working hard my man.

 

[sudenga]

I applied mostly to private schools for that reason. However, the school I’ll be attending in the Fall was private and listed as favoring state residents; so, don’t be discouraged. As for the PS, essentially you want to cover the following (in any order you see fit):

Your good qualities
Why you want to be a pharmacist
How you have prepared to become one (both academic and non-academic)
Short and long term goals
What you plan to contribute in the field and to the community
Any special circumstances

In my case, I started my PS with my life experiences, how they’ve shaped the person I am today, and how they lead me to pharmacy. I described how I came from an underprivileged family with unspecialized parents and because we couldn’t afford a doctor, my parents would consult pharmacist instead. I tied in empathy for those struggling and how I’ve acquired a humbled mentality on the basis of my background. Additionally, I talked about how becoming a pharmacist would solve the specialization issue my parents faced. If you have negative aspects you wish to discuss—such as transcripts—you want to address what you’ve learned from the past. Originally I wrote a long explanation of why it happened, but I scrapped it. Instead, I acknowledged my mistake and explained how I carry the experience as motivation to continuously improve myself. If you have a valid reason, maybe you should input why, but I didn’t have one. I continued with how my newfound motivation was utilized with studying for the PCAT, and how it aided my placement. I was simply trying to emphasize strong subject fundamentals. I also reaffirmed why pharmacy was the proper profession to fulfill my desires in life by relating my principles to my field experience (through volunteering). I closed with how I wanted to mentor students at the professional level as well as those entering secondary school because in my experience, I had trouble gathering information on available professions in middle and high school, and as such, I was lost in my early collegiate years.

If anyone has any further advice, feel free to chime in.

 

[sudenga]

In my opinion people with below 3.0 GPA's should not be allowed in pharmacy school. It lowers the overall quality of our profession. I would not want myself in pharmacy school if I had below a 3.0. That's not to say I am against retaking and proving that you do belong and are (smart/motivated/have enough time and emotion stability) to become a quality pharmacist to service others. Keep on working hard my man.

When some of us entered college we still had some growing up to do. I appreciate that they take the time to judge us on more current terms and take the PCAT into consideration as some gauge on fundamentals. Also, there are students with high GPA’s that don’t do well on the PCAT even though it directly tests basics. Should the PCAT be mandatory and the cutoff be 70+ or 80+, too? Some states, such as CA, don’t even require the PCAT as a part of their recruiting process. These students don’t even have to take the time to refresh their basics but are considered fully capable. I know a student who was accepted to UCSF that was afraid to take the PCAT. I may not have known the subject to the same level as top GPA students when I took my pre-reqs, such as gen-chem and o-chem, but I’ve more than made up for that now and my knowledge base is currently much heftier than theirs. Along with the rigors of pharmacy school, there are also licensing tests at the end of pharmacy school to ensure a professional is at the proper level. If someone wasn’t meant to be a pharmacist, they more than likely won’t be. Judging someone’s capability is more than just overall GPA.

 

[htxwn]

I have a 3.0X GPA and a 97 composite on my PCAT. I interviewed with 4 of 5 schools and got accepted into 3 including my first choice (one school is still pending). Just do everything you can to position yourself favorably among the other candidates.

 

[Member9123]

htxwn,
If you don't mind me asking, who did you receive your LORs from? I am taking the PCAT in July and my GPA has slipped after this semester. I am hoping with a high PCAT my application will still be in competitive shape. I do have some experience and I am volunteering at a pharmacy this semester so that leaves LORs as my main concern.

 

[htxwn]

htxwn,
If you don't mind me asking, who did you receive your LORs from? I am taking the PCAT in July and my GPA has slipped after this semester. I am hoping with a high PCAT my application will still be in competitive shape. I do have some experience and I am volunteering at a pharmacy this semester so that leaves LORs as my main concern.

I got one from my bio professor, one from a pharmacist-in-charge at the hospital at which I volunteered and one from a volunteer coordinator.

 

[Member9123]

Ok thank-you!

 

[561966]

Thanks a lot for this elaborate advice

 

[Wayfaring_Stranger]

Hi! I'm new to SDN and I am looking for a reality check on my chances of getting into pharmacy school. My GPA and PCAT scores aren't very good to begin with. I also attended a UC school for my undergrad if that counts for anything. I don't have much pharmacy experience (only volunteered at a pharmacy for the summer back home since I don't have a car in college).

Here are my stats:

GPA: ~3.1
PCAT composite: 78
PCAT Chemistry: 93

I'm going to get a letter of rec from my science professor, PI from research, employer, and possibly the pharmacist I volunteered for.

Is there any chance I could get into a California school? How about out of state? If so, which schools would I have a shot at?

Thanks!! 🙂

 

[MybuttsHadouken]

Hi! I'm new to SDN and I am looking for a reality check on my chances of getting into pharmacy school. My GPA and PCAT scores aren't very good to begin with. I also attended a UC school for my undergrad if that counts for anything. I don't have much pharmacy experience (only volunteered at a pharmacy for the summer back home since I don't have a car in college).

Here are my stats:

GPA: ~3.1
PCAT composite: 78
PCAT Chemistry: 93

I'm going to get a letter of rec from my science professor, PI from research, employer, and possibly the pharmacist I volunteered for.

Is there any chance I could get into a California school? How about out of state? If so, which schools would I have a shot at?

Thanks!! 🙂

gpa a little below average but still good chance overall. You got this!

 

[Wayfaring_Stranger]

gpa a little below average but still good chance overall. You got this!

Thank you for your reply! I appreciate the encouraging words!!!

 

[pharmgirl0630]

I took the PCAT today and got 66th percentile for my composite :/

Chemistry- 95%
Quantitative Ability- 89%
Biology- 63%

I didn't extremely low in verbal and reading which is what brought down my composite.

My GPA is ~ 3.4/3.5. Science GPA is ~3.1/3.2

I've been a pharm tech for over a year, secretary of a club and a member of 2 other clubs, a orientation leader, and have worked in a lab for over 4 years. Starting my senior year for a BS in Biological Sciences in the fall..

What are my chances of getting accepted?