really? 5% asians with 3.8+/36+ dont get into med school each year?

[typicalpremed]

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https://www.aamc.org/download/157598/data/table25-a-mcatgpa-grid-asian-0810.pdf.pdf

LURED! actually happen to be one of them 😳 made a new acc just to hide my shame

 

[flatearth22]

Most of them probably applied late in the cycle and/or not broadly enough.

 

[gravitywave]

congrats for beating the odds. for the record, your unfortunate situation has nothing to do with being asian, so you can leave that part out. it has everything to do a failure to sell yourself as good for medicine.

not to be too harsh: you still could come off a waitlist. i'm not just saying that; it does happen, especially for people such as yourself.

 

[paul411]

https://www.aamc.org/download/157598/data/table25-a-mcatgpa-grid-asian-0810.pdf.pdf

LURED! actually happen to be one of them 😳 made a new acc just to hide my shame

So... is this an "Ask me Anything" kind of thread? If so, what do you think went wrong?

 

[CodeBlu]

AMA.... SDN goes reddit styles.

What was your clinical experience like?

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

 

[flatearth22]

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

I would pay to see such an interview

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

I would pay to see such an interview

Dude, you should see the number of Chinese/Indian kids fresh off the boat at my state school that can't speak any English to save their life. No disrespect is meant, but I would find it hard to be an environment where I couldn't at least communicate with others around me. A lot of them do research, and probably excel in their classes, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of these individuals went to an interview with a translator. I think medical schools would be turned off by someone that couldn't communicate with their patients or understand the rigorous material that medical schools present.

 

[Cannon]

Perhaps they got better offers or into other, non-MD, programs. Well, the ones that aren't OP. I didn't check, does that list include PhD/MD acceptances?

 

[flatearth22]

Dude, you should see the number of Chinese/Indian kids fresh off the boat at my state school that can't speak any English to save their life. No disrespect is meant, but I would find it hard to be an environment where I couldn't at least communicate with others around me. A lot of them do research, and probably excel in their classes, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of these individuals went to an interview with a translator. I think medical schools would be turned off by someone that couldn't communicate with their patients or understand the rigorous material that medical schools present.

You would think those guys would get screened off from interviews based on their VR, and writing portions of the MCAT.... not to mention their PS and LOR's and secondaries.

 

[typicalpremed]

So... is this an "Ask me Anything" kind of thread? If so, what do you think went wrong?

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

pretty much sumz it up right thar

 

[SeminoleVesicle]

You would think those guys would get screened off from interviews based on their VR, and writing portions of the MCAT.... not to mention their PS and LOR's and secondaries.

Yeah, you're right. I'll change my original answer to this question...

 

[DISCOSTEW]

You would think those guys would get screened off from interviews based on their VR, and writing portions of the MCAT.... not to mention their PS and LOR's and secondaries.

outsourced

 

[flatearth22]

pretty much sumz it up right thar

Don't worry brother. Working in your parents' sweat shop will be a good gap year activity.

 

[paul411]

Don't worry brother. Working in your parents' sweat shop will be a good gap year activity.

Builds character and dexterity.

 

[Myuu]

Great. Now, it's racial stereotypes time. This is just what SDN needs.

 

[paul411]

pretty much sumz it up right thar

Wait... r u seriousry?

 

[Whatyousay]

Just like the people with 3.8-4.0 GPAs and 39-45 MCATs that get rejected every year (according to AAMC)?

 

[MSU2009]

Great. Now, it's racial stereotypes time. This is just what SDN needs.

You should really check out the Meharry thread if you haven't already.

Spoiler: The mere thought of black students there terrified a user.

 

[NickNaylor]

Yeah, you're right. I'll change my original answer to this question...

This picture cracks me up every time.

 

[PlacentaSac]

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

I agree with this 100%, I would just add (5) a poorly written application

 

[music2doc]

From my interactions with admissions personnel, I'd guess there are many reasons -- student app didn't match interviewed individual (i.e., didn't quite "fit," holes & loose ends, etc.); lack of maturity or similar revealed at interview time; lacked interpersonal skills; lacked self-awareness; over or underconfident; poor communication (verbal and/or writing) skills; lack of ECs; lack of empathy or emotional attachment or sensitivity; lack of decisiveness/clarity in opinion; lack of understanding of human diversity; uninformed and immature; interests or other aspects of person simply do not appear to fit with medicine; etc.

At a recent meeting with some admissions personnel, I got to observe some of these things with our pre-med team. The faculty/staff on our team got a really good glimpse at what causes students not to get accepted even with high scores. I think I did as well. Much of the above comes from that meeting. I think it only makes sense that medical schools care about more than raw scores.

 

[jpkotor]

better than the aggregated acceptance rate for that MCAT/GPA combo

https://www.aamc.org/download/157450/data/table24-mcatgpagridall2008-10.pdf.pdf

 

[Mithril]

They applied to Harvard and only Harvard because their parents forced them to.

 

[pfaction]

Wait... r u seriousry?

he b super cereal

 

[phltz]

It's hard to guess from these charts what's going on with the individuals who have those stats and don't get in. Several possibilities spring to mind.

1) Interviewer asks "So why do you want to be a doctor?" and the say "I don't, I'm just applying to med school because my parents are making me."
2) No ECs, no volunteering, no clinical experience, no sign of self-awareness.
3) Painfully shy, can't maintain a reasonable conversation.
4) Only applied to the top 5 schools in the country.
5) Are discovered to have lied about something on their application/have some sort of institutional action.

It's a pretty small fraction of the high-stat applicants that fail to get in anywhere. It's not hard to see how some of them may have screwed up somehow.

 

[WorldChanger36]

I really doubt race is anything more then a coincidence here. We are all awhere that if any race is going to get the short end of the stick it is going to be Blacks and Hispanics. We even came up with a system to compensate for that: URM status and URM friendly schools. Honestly I have never met an Asian applicant that did not get into med school on the first or second try but I do know one Hispanic guy who is having trouble but I think it has to do with his accent and trouble with English, more then his race but you never know.

 

[MedicinaeDoctor]

I really doubt race is anything more then a coincidence here. We are all awhere that if any race is going to get the short end of the stick it is going to be Blacks and Hispanics. We even came up with a system to compensate for that: URM status and URM friendly schools. Honestly I have never met an Asian applicant that did not get into med school on the first or second try but I do know one Hispanic guy who is having trouble but I think it has to do with his accent and trouble with English, more then his race but you never know.

lolz

 

[kpcrew]

I really doubt race is anything more then a coincidence here. We are all awhere that if any race is going to get the short end of the stick it is going to be Blacks and Hispanics. We even came up with a system to compensate for that: URM status and URM friendly schools. Honestly I have never met an Asian applicant that did not get into med school on the first or second try but I do know one Hispanic guy who is having trouble but I think it has to do with his accent and trouble with English, more then his race but you never know.

Huh. I was always under the impression that the color of my skin determined what kind of applicant I'm competing against, even though I may have nothing in common with them besides that color.

 

[paul411]

Huh. I was always under the impression that the color of my skin determined what kind of applicant I'm competing against, even though I may have nothing in common with them besides that color.

Yes.

 

[eli20]

(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish

I'm guessing it was #3

Really? Cause I'd be pretty damn impressed with someone who doesn't speak any English scoring a 36 MCAT...

 

[music2doc]

Really? Cause I'd be pretty damn impressed with someone who doesn't speak any English scoring a 36 MCAT...

Sure, but it still doesn't make the person useful as a healthcare provider. The MCAT is a test of academic preparedness and potential. It is meant as a gatekeeper to medical school. A good VR may help to lessen the initial concerns about a candidate's ability to communicate due to cultural or lingual barriers, but if the person's writing (e.g., PS), LORs, or interview indicate otherwise, no one is going to trust the MCAT over a human being's assessment.

The MCAT, like any exam, is flawed in certain ways. I know a testing researcher who can consistently get 75-90% on multiple choice exams on topics he does not know in languages he cannot read by simply identifying common patterns in how the test is written and exploiting them. It's ridiculous, but he can do it. Even if a person does not explicitly understand those patterns, it is possible that a rare individual might actually develop the intuitive understanding of the MCAT to be able to pull something similar off (although likely to a much lesser degree).

The MCAT is meant to give evidence for or against an applicant's preparedness. If other evidence is conclusively to the contrary, the MCAT's predictions are irrelevant. It is like saying "The AAMC Practice Tests and MCAT Estimator both said I should get a 36 on the MCAT but I ended up with a 32. Obviously, the 32 is a poor representation of my ability, so I'm going to apply to Harvard Med and tell them I really got a 36!" Oh how laughter would ensue...

 

[Web MD]

I'm tired of seeing these. If someone would be kind enough to point me to the white acceptance rant thread so I can participate I'd appreciate it

 

[Whatyousay]

I'm tired of seeing these. If someone would be kind enough to point me to the white acceptance rant thread so I can participate I'd appreciate it

White people are the silent majority.

 

[Web MD]

I still feel discriminated against

 

[Whatyousay]

I still feel discriminated against

The Man is keeping you down.

 

[dinosaurs]

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

Lolll. I'm guessing that #3 is actually not likely to be a main reason, since people with English skills that poor would likely be international students, who would have a MUCH harder time getting interviews, if they could at all.

 

[Web MD]

Don't have to be bad at English to have a terrible personality and bomb interviews

 

[Frazier]

rice is yum

 

[Web MD]

4. It was 4 like half of all pre-meds

 

[Whatyousay]

How could the Asians do so well on the MCAT without speaking a lick of Engrish?
Both the science sections still require decent levels of Engrish comprehension.

Iseewhatyoudidthere.

 

[LizzyM]

lack of maturity or similar revealed at interview time;

lacked interpersonal skills;

lacked self-awareness;

over or underconfident;

poor verbal communication skills (including heavy accents)

lack of empathy or emotional attachment or sensitivity;

lack of decisiveness/clarity in opinion;

lack of understanding of human diversity;

uninformed and immature;

interests or other aspects of person simply do not appear to fit with medicine; etc.

This would pretty much be my list.... One can do very well in written assignments and yet speak unintelligible English. Some of these folks are fine with book-learning and formal conversation as taught in school but aren't comfortable in a one-on-one conversation with colloquial English despite 4 years of college in North America.

 

[flatearth22]

This would pretty much be my list.... One can do very well in written assignments and yet speak unintelligible English. Some of these folks are fine with book-learning and formal conversation as taught in school but aren't comfortable in a one-on-one conversation with colloquial English despite 4 years of college in North America.

But those guys would make great pathologists and radiologists!

 

[Shizz]

or:

(5) got a boner during interview

 

[flatearth22]

or:

(5) got a boner during interview

inb4 rule 34 of the internet

 

[JESSFALLING]

This would pretty much be my list.... One can do very well in written assignments and yet speak unintelligible English. Some of these folks are fine with book-learning and formal conversation as taught in school but aren't comfortable in a one-on-one conversation with colloquial English despite 4 years of college in North America.

I agree with this from personal experience (n=1). I have never had an Asian doctor that I've liked...and it isn't because they weren't well educated.

 

[flatearth22]

I agree with this from personal experience (n=1). I have never had an Asian doctor that I've liked...and it isn't because they weren't well educated.

Doesn't matter if you liked them. Their superior intelligence and clinical skills saved your life.

 

[music2doc]

This would pretty much be my list.... One can do very well in written assignments and yet speak unintelligible English. Some of these folks are fine with book-learning and formal conversation as taught in school but aren't comfortable in a one-on-one conversation with colloquial English despite 4 years of college in North America.

Maybe it was you I was paraphrasing.... j/k. Pretty sure you're not at that school.


But yes, this is true. Oh, and radiologists and pathologists still have to be able to engage in conversation with other providers effectively. Our ED docs, for instance, are on the phone all the time w/ those guys discussing complex pts and one would expect you want to develop a relationship as well, which requires the ability to be conversational and informal as well. No one wants to work with a robot. Not to mention the simple fact that you must get through med school and residency first and no pt wants to be treated by a med student who cannot approach things sensitively or who lacks the ability to communicate effectively (and therefore no resident or attending wants to supervise such an individual).

 

[CuttingCorneas]

I think it's possible that 49 Asians across the entire United States didn't get accepted.

(1) Could be community college graduates
(2) Lacked extracurriculars
(3) Did not speak a lick of Engrish/couldn't write coherently in Engrish
(4) Poor interviewing skills

I'm guessing it was #3

But isn't the eternal language of the violin or piano good enough?

 

[NickNaylor]

I agree with this from personal experience (n=1). I have never had an Asian doctor that I've liked...and it isn't because they weren't well educated.

My PCP is Asian, went to UTSW, and is a hilarious guy that provides good care.

I'm sure that somewhere in the world there are decent Asian doctors. 🙄