Reapplicant, should I apply DO?

[LouiseBelcher95]

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[deleted1077312]

Do you want to be a DO?

 

[LouiseBelcher95]

Do you want to be a DO?

I'm certainly not opposed to it, I like the philosophy behind it! I just had a less than ideal experience at my DO interview when I applied 2 cycles ago. My main worry is that it would be hard for me to match into the competitive specialties I'm interested in as a DO.

 

[Natremia]

I'm certainly not opposed to it, I like the philosophy behind it! I just had a less than ideal experience at my DO interview when I applied 2 cycles ago. My main worry is that it would be hard for me to match into the competitive specialties I'm interested in as a DO.

There’s no philosophy and no difference: it’s all marketing

Being a DO certainly has drawbacks and when people say “no one cares” they either are purposely obfuscating or merely naive. DO schools have done a masterful job peddling the former.

It’s hard for you to truly know what field you want to go into now as a pre-med. Being a DO will 100% limit you so you need to really soul search. If you want anything surgical, derm, prestigious IM etc it’s a poor choice

I won’t even touch in the horrendous clinical years. Maybe another time.

Good luck dude

 

[Dave1980]

Hi everyone,

I graduated college in 2017 and applied to DO and MD schools in summer 2019 after working in a research lab for two years. It was a stupid thing to do with my stats but I was out of school, didn't have an advisor and was just winging it, truthfully. I had taken the MCAT twice at that point, 501 and then 504, and my undergrad GPA was 3.19. Again, I know, I was naive. Unsurprisingly I got no MD interviews and one DO interview. I got waitlisted at the DO school.

Since then, I worked full time with an eye surgeon for a year doing lots of hands on work with patients, finished the first of two years of a rigorous Master of Science in Medical Physiology program with a 4.0 and retook the MCAT, this time: 517. CASPer 3rd quartile. I have a strong letter from my grad committee along with a research letter and a physician letter.

I applied this cycle only to MD schools, on the advice of my advisor. I submitted most of my secondaries close to or over a month ago and have gotten no IIs and one flat out rejection. Should I consider applying to DO schools at this point as well? Am I just overreacting? I guess I'm just worried schools won't be able to look past my undergrad GPA and first two MCAT scores. Thanks in advance!

If its not too late I'd throw in some DO applications ASAP since you are only at best an average MD applicant (hopefully you targeted lower tier schools).

Although my understanding is that if you don't have a letter from a DO you are DOA (parden the pun).

Best of luck. I'd find a DO to shadow in anticipation of needing to go through another application cycle.

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone,

I graduated college in 2017 and applied to DO and MD schools in summer 2019 after working in a research lab for two years. It was a stupid thing to do with my stats but I was out of school, didn't have an advisor and was just winging it, truthfully. I had taken the MCAT twice at that point, 501 and then 504, and my undergrad GPA was 3.19. Again, I know, I was naive. Unsurprisingly I got no MD interviews and one DO interview. I got waitlisted at the DO school.

Since then, I worked full time with an eye surgeon for a year doing lots of hands on work with patients, finished the first of two years of a rigorous Master of Science in Medical Physiology program with a 4.0 and retook the MCAT, this time: 517. CASPer 3rd quartile. I have a strong letter from my grad committee along with a research letter and a physician letter.

I applied this cycle only to MD schools, on the advice of my advisor. I submitted most of my secondaries close to or over a month ago and have gotten no IIs and one flat out rejection. Should I consider applying to DO schools at this point as well? Am I just overreacting? I guess I'm just worried schools won't be able to look past my undergrad GPA and first two MCAT scores. Thanks in advance!

As a reinventor, you have to have DO schools on your list. Beggars can't be choosy.

What was your MD schools list? It's still early in the cycle, and there are MD schools that reward reinvention.

Lacking a DO LOR will NOT hurt you; having one will always help.

it would be hard for me to match into the competitive specialties I'm interested in as a DO.

At this point, your job is to get into med school, not into an uber residency. And a FYI, the people who make it into Derm, IR, surgical subspecialties, Ortho, are generally consistently at the top of their pack all the way through their academic careers.

 

[LouiseBelcher95]

As a reinventor, you have to have DO schools on your list. Beggars can't be choosy.

What was your MD schools list? It's still early in the cycle, and there are MD schools that reward reinvention.

Lacking a DO LOR will NOT hurt you; having one will always help.

it would be hard for me to match into the competitive specialties I'm interested in as a DO.

At this point, your job is to get into med school, not into an uber residency. And a FYI, the people who make it into Derm, IR, surgical subspecialties, Ortho, are generally consistently at the top of their pack all the way through their academic careers.

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

FWIW, I’m a NY resident

Here's my MD school list

Albany
Georgetown
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Downstate
Stonybrook
Buffalo
Rochester
Vermont
Wake Forest
Brown
Oregon HSU
Michigan
VCU
Dartmouth
Cincinnati
Tufts
Tulane
GW
Kaiser Permanente
Rush
Drexel
Wright State
Central Michigan

 

[Natremia]

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

FWIW, I’m a NY resident

Here's my MD school list

Albany
Georgetown
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Downstate
Stonybrook
Buffalo
Rochester
Vermont
Wake Forest
Brown
Oregon HSU
Michigan
VCU
Dartmouth
Cincinnati
Tufts
Tulane
GW
Kaiser Permanente
Rush
Drexel
Wright State
Central Michigan

Also goro, who bizarrely disliked my comment, is a phd lecturer. He knows absolutely 0 about clinical medicine and being a physician. I’m a DO and a senior resident applying for fellowship right now. So, anything he says about a career as a physician/ DO is about as relevant as your next door neighbor

But, as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water…”

That aside: I stand by my earlier comment— if you’re even remotely interested in those fields you should NOT go to a DO school.

 

[Dave1980]

Lacking a DO LOR will NOT hurt you; having one will always help.

Learn something new everyday!

 

[Goro]

Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it!

FWIW, I’m a NY resident

Here's my MD school list

Albany
Georgetown
SUNY Upstate
SUNY Downstate
Stonybrook
Buffalo
Rochester
Vermont
Wake Forest
Brown
Oregon HSU
Michigan
VCU
Dartmouth
Cincinnati
Tufts
Tulane
GW
Kaiser Permanente
Rush
Drexel
Wright State
Central Michigan

CMU, BROWN, Wright State, Kaiser, Cinci, U MI, Oregon were all donations.

The other schools do reward reinvention, so you have a chance with them.

Do avoid the advice of self hating DOs. They are indeed a thing.

 

[jhmmd]

You should not comment on what you don’t know. And this topic you are clueless

Not self hating. It’s called reality.
While you try and line your pockets with more apps from naive pre meds: disgusting.

I’ve sat on residency selection committees for 2 different medical specialities. You don’t even know how rounds work.

Please try to avoid straw man arguments and stick to the facts.

 

[Dave1980]

Lol, what…

Being an actual physician and being involved in the process, especially as a DO == facts for this thread

Random PhD peripherally attacking me out of nowhere (ie you conveniently ignoring that, whoever you are) == straw man

Kick rocks, bud.

EDIT: you’re a bloody pre med. DEFINITELY kick rocks.

why are you so mad? please tell me who hurt you?

 

[Goro]

why are you so mad? please tell me who hurt you?

As I said, self-hating DOs are a thing.

One also doesn't need to be a chicken to know something about eggs.

 

[wook]

Also goro, who bizarrely disliked my comment, is a phd lecturer. He knows absolutely 0 about clinical medicine and being a physician. I’m a DO and a senior resident applying for fellowship right now. So, anything he says about a career as a physician/ DO is about as relevant as your next door neighbor

But, as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water…”

That aside: I stand by my earlier comment— if you’re even remotely interested in those fields you should NOT go to a DO school.

Respectfully disagree.

Most of the specialties don't care if you're DO or MD. You will generally have the same opportunities and pay as any other physician. Most of the attendings don't even know who is DO or MD when we work together.

Go DO if you want to be a DO. Go MD if you want to be an MD. Both are licensed physicians in the US and do the exact same jobs.


Thanks.


Wook

 

[deleted1102547]

"According to the National Resident Matching Program, allopathic seniors preferred the specialties of radiology, neurological surgery, orthopedic surgery, and plastic surgery. They least preferred to match with a residency in pathology, family medicine, or internal medicine.

On the other hand, osteopathic medical seniors preferred family medicine, pathology, physical medicine and rehabilitation, and psychiatry more than other specialties. They were less likely to apply for a residency in otolaryngology, plastic surgery, radiation oncology, and orthopedic surgery.

Overall, 91.8% of US allopathic seniors matched with their preferred specialty. 82.6% of US osteopathic seniors paired with their preferred specialty.

As of 2019, MD students could only match with programs that were accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and DO students could match with residencies that are accredited by either the ACGME or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA). However, this is all about to change. In July of 2020, the accreditation councils will merge to form a single GME Accreditation system, allowing MD and DO students to apply to any residencies.

The purpose of this merger is to create a more consistent method of evaluating residencies. It will affect both current and future DO students, who no longer will have a safe haven of residencies that only DO students can apply to. That means that allopathic students will have more opportunities open to them, perhaps at the expense of weaker DO students.

When choosing between DO and MD, you should consider what you want your future specialty to be, as your chances of matching with your desired program can increase depending on if you go to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Being a DO does not make you any worse or better of a doctor. Your residency and your action will determine that, not what letters follow your name."

 

[LindaAccepted]

I'm certainly not opposed to it, I like the philosophy behind it! I just had a less than ideal experience at my DO interview when I applied 2 cycles ago. My main worry is that it would be hard for me to match into the competitive specialties I'm interested in as a DO.

If you're not opposed, I'd also encourage you to apply DO almost as an insurance policy. It's too early for you to panic about your MD apps, but if you wait until you know for sure, it will be too late to apply this cycle to DO programs.

 

[LaughingGas10]

"According to the National Resident Matching Program, allopathic seniors preferred the specialties of radiology, neurological surgery, orthopedic surgery, and plastic surgery. They least preferred to match with a residency in pathology, family medicine, or internal medicine.

On the other hand, osteopathic medical seniors preferred family medicine, pathology, physical medicine and rehabilitation, and psychiatry more than other specialties. They were less likely to apply for a residency in otolaryngology, plastic surgery, radiation oncology, and orthopedic surgery.

Overall, 91.8% of US allopathic seniors matched with their preferred specialty. 82.6% of US osteopathic seniors paired with their preferred specialty.

As of 2019, MD students could only match with programs that were accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and DO students could match with residencies that are accredited by either the ACGME or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA). However, this is all about to change. In July of 2020, the accreditation councils will merge to form a single GME Accreditation system, allowing MD and DO students to apply to any residencies.

The purpose of this merger is to create a more consistent method of evaluating residencies. It will affect both current and future DO students, who no longer will have a safe haven of residencies that only DO students can apply to. That means that allopathic students will have more opportunities open to them, perhaps at the expense of weaker DO students.

When choosing between DO and MD, you should consider what you want your future specialty to be, as your chances of matching with your desired program can increase depending on if you go to an allopathic or osteopathic medical school. Being a DO does not make you any worse or better of a doctor. Your residency and your action will determine that, not what letters follow your name."

Traditionally it has been hard for DO's to match into the 6 most competitive specialties-- ENT, Opthalmology, Radiation Oncology, Dermatology, Neurosurgery, and Orthopedics. This may be the real reason why we dont have many osteopathic medical seniors applying for these residencies and not because of lack of interest. These specialties are preferred and competitive for a reason, having said that, some of the very fancy internal medicine fellowships (cardiology, gastroenterology) are starting to give these specialties a run for their money, and are extremely competitive and am finding some high powered applicants now applying more to some of the highly competitive internal medicine residencies in hopes of landing a coveted fellowship in the future.

see page 30 https://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/MRM-Results_and-Data_2021.pdf

Having said that, I do know several Do's in all of these highly competitive specialties (certainly a lower percentage than MDs) , so nothing is impossible. In general most Do graduates will have very little difficulty matching into primary care/ psychiatry/ neurology/pathology. OB/gyn, ER, Internal medicine are also obtainable in mid level residencies (outside of the big names---harvard/yale/columbia/JHU etc). Highly competitive residency programs often select students from the ‘big name’ medical schools for prestige factor. As there are no ‘big name’ DO schools, this becomes a disadvantage for DO students.. However, some DO schools have their own residencies in competitive specialties, where there is a higher likelihood of being preferred, if you are a DO.

 

[Goro]

Hi everyone,

I graduated college in 2017 and applied to DO and MD schools in summer 2019 after working in a research lab for two years. It was a stupid thing to do with my stats but I was out of school, didn't have an advisor and was just winging it, truthfully. I had taken the MCAT twice at that point, 501 and then 504, and my undergrad GPA was 3.19. Again, I know, I was naive. Unsurprisingly I got no MD interviews and one DO interview. I got waitlisted at the DO school.

Since then, I worked full time with an eye surgeon for a year doing lots of hands on work with patients, finished the first of two years of a rigorous Master of Science in Medical Physiology program with a 4.0 and retook the MCAT, this time: 517. CASPer 3rd quartile. I have a strong letter from my grad committee along with a research letter and a physician letter.

I applied this cycle only to MD schools, on the advice of my advisor. I submitted most of my secondaries close to or over a month ago and have gotten no IIs and one flat out rejection. Should I consider applying to DO schools at this point as well? Am I just overreacting? I guess I'm just worried schools won't be able to look past my undergrad GPA and first two MCAT scores. Thanks in advance!

As a reinventor, beggars can't be choosy. You have to have DO schools on your list. Start getting your apps n NOW!!

 

[TeddyBoomBoom]

….

One also doesn't need to be a chicken to know something about eggs.

^^^ 😆 nicely done

 

[LouiseBelcher95]

As a reinventor, beggars can't be choosy. You have to have DO schools on your list. Start getting your apps n NOW!!

Thank you for the advice everyone! Happy to report I've been accepted to one of my top choice MD schools Best of luck to all other applicants!

 

[DOcSto]

Thank you for the advice everyone! Happy to report I've been accepted to one of my top choice MD schools Best of luck to all other applicants!

Congrats! However, let this be a lesson to you to not be neurotic over things you can't control and let things play out. Only saying this because you started this thread just over 2 months ago. Go kick *** in school next year!

 

[Goro]

Thank you for the advice everyone! Happy to report I've been accepted to one of my top choice MD schools Best of luck to all other applicants!

Congrats!

Now go read this

• Goro's Guide to Success in Medical School (2019 edition)

 

[Bulliedinschool2doc]

Also goro, who bizarrely disliked my comment, is a phd lecturer. He knows absolutely 0 about clinical medicine and being a physician. I’m a DO and a senior resident applying for fellowship right now. So, anything he says about a career as a physician/ DO is about as relevant as your next door neighbor

But, as the saying goes, “You can lead a horse to water…”

That aside: I stand by my earlier comment— if you’re even remotely interested in those fields you should NOT go to a DO school.

Then why didn't you go MD? there are people who never graduate high school let alone have the opportunity to be a doctor.

 

[Osteosaur]

Well if you don't mind having an uphill battle for competitive specialties do it.

I had trouble getting into MD with ~3.6/515 and it took three tries before I just went DO.

Apply both. Hope that they overlook your spotty past record. Some schools might and some schools might not. If not then you still have DO in your back pocket.

Right now you have done the very best you can and an awesome job remediating. If you don't get MD this time what more can you do? Another masters? Grind for a 520 over another year? You'd probably apply DO or change careers.