Reapplication feedback

[PickaGodnPray]

While I am still waiting to hear back from a few schools this cycle (please Umich I am begging you), I am currently coming to terms that I will most likely need to reapply if this is the path for me. I am somewhat lost in terms of what could be wrong with my application and areas I can improve. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

My first application I received 3 interviews (Wayne, Umich, Oakland) which all turned from WL to R. This cycle I have only received an interview from MSU which has led to a WL which will most likely turn to a R. From the feedback given to me from each program, my interviews went very well and each program struggled to find anything that I could have improved upon, with only Umich saying that my MCAT "could be higher, but that shouldn't have been the issue". Additionally, my writing materials are good-strong based upon the same feedback and I had countless MD friends and advisors read over them.

I have applied to ~25 schools this cycle (I cannot afford to apply to more) with ~50% of the schools with stats below my averages, 40% at my average, and 10% slightly above. Schools were a mix of DO and MD. For out of state schools I tried to target those that were more OOS friendly as well. A few interviewers relayed that I was a "great fit for the program" so I know school mission statement/fit isn't the issue for all of them.

ORM, Michigan resident, non-traditional (3 years out of undergrad)

STATS: cGPA 3.85 sGPA 3.78 MCAT 512 (128, 126, 129, 129)

Extracurriculars:
XC and Track (4 years of college)
Weightlifting (3 years post college 6x a week 1-2 hours)
Basic science research in neurodevelopmental disorders (Throughout undergrad 4/hours a week, over the summer full time, post college 4 years full time. 5 publications, 2 first author.)
AED pre-health club (general member first two years, executive board member third year)
Hospital volunteering in various departments (500 hours over 5 years)
Hospice volunteering (500 hours over 3 years)
EMT volunteer in ER and paramedic trucks (300 hours over 1 year)
Camp counselor for neuro-atypical summer camp (250 over 3 years)
TA for intro to neuroscience (200 hours)
Shadowing neurologist, cardiologist, urologist in Denmark (50 hours over two summers)
Botany research in China (500 hours in one summer)
Community educational outreach for neuroscience (25 hours)

Why medicine/school:
My personal statement focuses on how my many injuries playing sports led me to the ER countless times and brought about the idea of pursuing medicine. While participating in extracurriculars, I found a passion within my patient interactions for advocating for individuals with developmental disorders through medical treatment, accessibility training, and scientific research. My aim as a physician is to provide treatment to patients with these disabilities to allow them to obtain the highest quality of life possible, while actively participating in new research and advocating for increased accessibility to improve the quality of life these patients can obtain in the future.

Thank you in advance!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Goro]

The Rs at this point suggest interview skills to me. No Adcom member or admissions Dean will be truthful about these things.

Your ECs look great, but perhaps you really didn't articulate "why Medicine?" in the interview.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I'll agree you got dinged... probably low interview or fit scores compared to those who got A's at final deliberation. I also may need a little help connecting the dots (not having your entire application). Sounds like you put your chips on neurodivergent patients. How did you leverage hospice, EMT, and botany research (well-rounded interest in medicine)? I say this because I'm left wondering, what happens if you can't get into your desired specialty? Why not a BHT? Why no DO schools with IIs? Any acknowledgement of holistic assessment of patients as people, not illnesses?

We will see with MSU MD... hope this works for you. You did not get re-interviewed so I'm skeptical how much you fit their mission or culture.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

The Rs at this point suggest interview skills to me. No Adcom member or admissions Dean will be truthful about these things.

Your ECs look great, but perhaps you really didn't articulate "why Medicine?" in the interview.

Is there a reason a member of the admissions board who scheduled a feedback meeting with me wouldn’t be honest about the feedback? I also don’t think it’s interview skills when about half of the interviewers have given me their personal email and asked for me to reach out to do research with them “when I got accepted”. Maybe they’re just being nice but from the professional development at my school and current work they believed my interview skills in practice were strong and I felt it translated pretty much 1:1 during the actual interview.
I do think my “why medicine” could be more concise and strong. My typical answer is “I was the son of two nurses that was constantly in the ER for sports related injuries, so I spent a large part of my developing years surrounded by the medical field. Each time I was in the hospital, I was amazed by the physicians ability to empathetically connect with me and treat me not as just someone with a broken ankle, but as a human with fears and worries about playing soccer again. I wanted to be able to provide that same care to others which is what has led me to the initial pursuit of medicine, which has only been strengthened by my interactions and experiences with patients I have been lucky to serve through hospice, hospital, and EMS settings.”

 

[PickaGodnPray]

I'll agree you got dinged... probably low interview or fit scores compared to those who got A's at final deliberation. I also may need a little help connecting the dots (not having your entire application). Sounds like you put your chips on neurodivergent patients. How did you leverage hospice, EMT, and botany research (well-rounded interest in medicine)? I say this because I'm left wondering, what happens if you can't get into your desired specialty? Why not a BHT? Why no DO schools with IIs? Any acknowledgement of holistic assessment of patients as people, not illnesses?

We will see with MSU MD... hope this works for you. You did not get re-interviewed so I'm skeptical how much you fit their mission or culture.

It’s definitely a wide scope of interests, with my main one being the research that I have been doing the past 4 years in neuroscience. I started in botany research and realized I didn’t like it as much as what I was learning in my neuro class, hence the switch. I started hospice more recently when it was impossible to volunteer in hospital settings due to the COVID as I missed patient interactions and being able to genuinely connect with those in these difficult treatment settings. As for EMT, I have realised I am limited in my ability to provide care outside of the emotional aspect to the patients I have served, leading me to want to expand my healthcare education to take on a greater role in a care team and better serve the health of my community.
I applied to only a few DO (I think 3) of which two were out of state with no ties and one (MSU) which my friend who attends currently criticized my application for having too much research and not enough patient care, so he didn’t think I was a good fit for DO in general.
No for BHT due to medicine being the only field that will allow me to combine my passions for empathetic patient care, innovative research, and health education within the community. I believe I relayed that well in my primary, but could be mistaken.
As for holistic view of patients, I focus an entire most meaningful essay towards that with the summer camp, discussing my passion for promoting accessibility and inclusion towards others and not viewing them solely as a stigmatized disorder.

When you say re-interviewed for MSU, what do you mean? I typically assumed after being put on the waitlist I would just get radio silence until May.

 

[Goro]

Is there a reason a member of the admissions board who scheduled a feedback meeting with me wouldn’t be honest about the feedback?

Do you think this person will tell you that you were, say, immature, scary, or looked bored or distracted?

I also don’t think it’s interview skills when about half of the interviewers have given me their personal email and asked for me to reach out to do research with them “when I got accepted”.

Interviewers are trained to be polite. They may also have no say in the final vote of the Adcom.

I do think my “why medicine” could be more concise and strong. My typical answer is “I was the son of two nurses that was constantly in the ER for sports related injuries, so I spent a large part of my developing years surrounded by the medical field. Each time I was in the hospital, I was amazed by the physicians ability to empathetically connect with me and treat me not as just someone with a broken ankle, but as a human with fears and worries about playing soccer again. I wanted to be able to provide that same care to others which is what has led me to the initial pursuit of medicine, which has only been strengthened by my interactions and experiences with patients I have been lucky to serve through hospice, hospital, and EMS settings.”

I wasn't there, so I can't judge this. But the fact that you got rapid rejections, as opposed to going into wait list limbo, says something.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

Do you think this person will tell you that you were, say, immature, scary, or looked bored or distracted?

Interviewers are trained to be polite. They may also have no say in the final vote of the Adcom.

I wasn't there, so I can't judge this. But the fact that you got rapid rejections, as opposed to going into wait list limbo, says something.

Rapid rejections? I was waitlisted after each interview and wasn’t rejected until the week before their classes actually started…
Guess I can’t say what’s going on in adcoms heads, but I know the energy I had going into the interviews was matched positively by my interviewers. The final vote is very much up to the admissions team which the interviewer could be fully removed from.
As for the feedback, when the admissions team members discussed my application and interview they said I scored exceptionally high in each interview station. If they offered the feedback appointment I just don’t know why they would lie about that while looking at my file, but maybe I’m too optimistic about how this whole thing works.

Thanks again for your perspective, I appreciate the insight.

 

[PeteytheFish]

I know of a candidate who ticked all the boxes on paper - they looked totally right for medical school in terms of activities and metrics. They interviewed very well, too. However, the way they talked about one experience on their application ended up being pretty unprofessional and rubbed the interviewer and committee the wrong way. Given an opportunity to correct this in the interview, the applicant didn't, and clearly failed to notice that they had been indiscreet on their application. The applicant was outright rejected despite otherwise being a good fit. The school this person applied to offers feedback, but I can promise you that they're not going to tell the candidate outright to be more professional. They're going to point them in the direction to figure that part out on their own, because otherwise there's no saying whether the lesson will actually be learned.

I'm not saying that this is your problem, but rejections like yours sometimes indicate that there's an issue somewhere in the application that needs to be addressed. The applicant comes across as unlikeable, or unprofessional, or immature, or lacking self-awareness. Choose an adjective.

Give your whole application to someone who does not know you and ask them to read it with a critical eye. Maybe they'll spot the problem.

 

[Goro]

Rapid rejections? I was waitlisted after each interview and wasn’t rejected until the week before their classes actually started…

Ahh, my apologies. I misinterpreted what you wrote.

Guess I can’t say what’s going on in adcoms heads, but I know the energy I had going into the interviews was matched positively by my interviewers. The final vote is very much up to the admissions team which the interviewer could be fully removed from.

It might be that you were right on the fence, but with so many good candidates to choose from, it just wasn't enough. This process is very much like an Olympic sport, where 0.1 sec may differentiate a medal winner from a non-medal winner.

If you get shut out, trying shadowing a DO and LOR from one. (assuming that you haven't done this.)

 

[PickaGodnPray]

Ahh, my apologies. I misinterpreted what you wrote.


It might be that you were right on the fence, but with so many good candidates to choose from, it just wasn't enough. This process is very much like an Olympic sport, where 0.1 sec may differentiate a medal winner from a non-medal winner.

If you get shut out, trying shadowing a DO and LOR from one. (assuming that you haven't done this.)

I haven’t gotten a LOR from one, I’ll definitely reach out to the ones I previously shadowed.

Thanks again!

 

[chilly_md]

If they offered the feedback appointment I just don’t know why they would lie about that while looking at my file, but maybe I’m too optimistic about how this whole thing works.

Feedback meetings are often of little use. State schools sometimes do a better job at this, which are the ones you met with, but they still prefer not to be forthcoming for liability reasons. University of Michigan is very competitive even as an IS resident. I would not believe their comment that your lower MCAT score was not an issue.

Good clinical experience, but a lack of non-clinical volunteering in the community to the underserved. Wayne State and Oakland are big on this with their proximity to Detroit.

When you say re-interviewed for MSU, what do you mean? I typically assumed after being put on the waitlist I would just get radio silence until May.

Mr. Smile likely meant no interviews from Oakland, Wayne or Michigan again. They did not want to give a 2nd chance or were expecting more significant changes in your primary compared to the year before.

Where did you apply both cycles?