Reapplying for residency AND an unrelated (unnecessary) internship?

[futuredo32]

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I'm a DO who didn't match into a residency program this year. I am reapplying and for family reasons, I'm limited to a specific geographic region. I was planning to apply to residency programs (psychiatry in Michigan) and also to traditional rotating internship programs/transitional years. Psychiatry does not require an internship year, it's a four year residency program, but due to my geographic limitations, I want to match into something that could lead to a psychiatry residency in the future, even if it meant doing an internship year and then starting all over in a psychiatry residency.
After this year's match, the internship positions were pretty much gone in my area, so I don't want to wait until after the next match and try to scramble into an internship.
So, my question is, is it ok for me to apply to both psychiatry residency programs AND traditional internships/transitional years and use my psychiatry residency oritented personal statement? Can I tell the traditional internship/transitional year programs (at an interview) that I am applying as a back-up? I know a lot of people scramble into internship programs after failing to match, I'm just wondering if it is at all common to apply before failing to match?
Thank you.

 

[peppy]

I think a lot of places would not like to think of themselves as "the backup option" so I
would treat it like applying to two different specialties (which you know lots of people do). For the internships I would probably whip up a personal statement with something along the lines of saying that even though your ultimate goal is psychiatry that since you have been away from medicine for a year you would like to have a broad-based internship year to help you develop your general medical knowledge in order to later be a better psychiatrist.
That way they know what your ultimate goal is, but they aren't going to necessarily assume "This person won't rank us high".
Good luck with it. I hope that you get in a great program next year.

 

[futuredo32]

Thanks, Peppy. I hope you have a great PGY-1 year and hope you find an amazing PGY2-4 year program.
I'll honestly be happy to get into ANY program next year, though a great program woud be nicer.
I have another question (I feel like a news reporter asking a follow up question). During my interviews this year, I was asked where else I applied. Assuming that an internship program asked me what other programs I applied to, is it ok to tell them that I applied to psychiatry residency programs as well?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

First, let's make sure we're all talking about the same things.

A Traditional Rotating Internship (TRI) is an osteopathic 1 year internship. They are not terribly competitive, although moreso in Michigan. There are often TRI's left after the DO match. Presumably, after completing a TRI, you could try to find an OGME-2 spot in a DO psych program.

A Transitional Year is an allopathic training program. They are whoppingly competitive, as they are easier than prelim IM or prelim surgery years, and usually derm / rads / etc apply for them. I think it's fair to say that, if as a DO you were unable to match this year, you will not be getting an allopathic TY.

A TRI will NOT count as a PGY-1 in an allopathic psych residency. You will not get any credit for an osteopathic TRI from the ABPN. I have no idea if the opposite is true.

So: I think you need to decide whether you want to train in the osteopathic or allopathic GME systems. You can apply to both, but the DO match is first so you'd either have to give up trying for any DO match and stick with the allo match, or try for DO, and if that fails then fall back to the NRMP. If you plan to train DO, then a TRI might make some sense. If you plan to train in an allopathic program, a TRI is simply a job for a year.

 

[futuredo32]

First, let's make sure we're all talking about the same things.

A Traditional Rotating Internship (TRI) is an osteopathic 1 year internship. They are not terribly competitive, although moreso in Michigan. There are often TRI's left after the DO match. Presumably, after completing a TRI, you could try to find an OGME-2 spot in a DO psych program.

A Transitional Year is an allopathic training program. They are whoppingly competitive, as they are easier than prelim IM or prelim surgery years, and usually derm / rads / etc apply for them. I think it's fair to say that, if as a DO you were unable to match this year, you will not be getting an allopathic TY.

A TRI will NOT count as a PGY-1 in an allopathic psych residency. You will not get any credit for an osteopathic TRI from the ABPN. I have no idea if the opposite is true.

So: I think you need to decide whether you want to train in the osteopathic or allopathic GME systems. You can apply to both, but the DO match is first so you'd either have to give up trying for any DO match and stick with the allo match, or try for DO, and if that fails then fall back to the NRMP. If you plan to train DO, then a TRI might make some sense. If you plan to train in an allopathic program, a TRI is simply a job for a year.

Thanks APD. I thought the terms transitional year and preliminary year were interchangable and the same thing in the MD world as a TRI in the DO world. I would have wasted a ton of money for nothing.

So, then I guess I will be applying for TRI and Preliminary IM spots.
Is a preliminary IM spot kind of the same thing as as a TRI?
Also, if I do a TRI at a dually accreditted program, it could count as a PGY-1 at an allo program, correct?
After not matching this year, especially with my geographic limitations, I really don't want to take any chances and try to hold out for an allo spot. I was thinking that even if I just match into a TRI and have to apply the following year for a PGY-1 psych spot, at least I would be more competitive than not matching two years in a row.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Thanks APD. I thought the terms transitional year and preliminary year were interchangable and the same thing in the MD world as a TRI in the DO world. I would have wasted a ton of money for nothing.

So, then I guess I will be applying for TRI and Preliminary IM spots.
Is a preliminary IM spot kind of the same thing as as a TRI?
Also, if I do a TRI at a dually accreditted program, it could count as a PGY-1 at an allo program, correct?
After not matching this year, especially with my geographic limitations, I really don't want to take any chances and try to hold out for an allo spot. I was thinking that even if I just match into a TRI and have to apply the following year for a PGY-1 psych spot, at least I would be more competitive than not matching two years in a row.

A TRI is actually, in structure, most like a TY. They mix internal medicine with other fields (surgery, peds, OB, FP, etc). A prelim IM is almost 100% IM, perhaps except for an elective which you might be able to do outside of IM.

A TRI at a dual accredited program will NOT count as an allo PGY-1. This is very important to understand. There are two basic ways that a program can be dual accreditted. One is to have two programs, each basically independant, working at the same institution, with some overlap. This is the way most programs do this. MD's match into the allo program, and DO's match into the osteo program. Both may be interns on the wards, and may work with each other. But the two programs are completely seperate, and you only get credit for the one you are in.

It would be, theoretically, possible to create a single program that meets all ACGME and AOA rules, so that all residents are treated identically and you can claim credit in either system. I have no idea if it would be possible to create a single curriculum that would meet the TRI and prelim IM needs -- I expect not. But, if it was possible, then you could get credit either way.

It's not clear whether a TRI will make you more competitive for an allo psych PGY-1 spot. It's possible that PD's will see this as additional clinical experience which makes you a better candidate. However, it uses one of your years of GME funding, which could hurt you.

 

[futuredo32]

Thanks so much, APD. I had no idea how much I didn't know about allo intern years and residencies.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It turns out you can create a single program that is accreddited by both ACGME and the AOA. Univ of Conn has such a program. They have both a TRI/Prelim IM year, and an ACGME/AOA combined three year program. So, I stand corrected, they do exist.

 

[futuredo32]

It turns out you can create a single program that is accreddited by both ACGME and the AOA. Univ of Conn has such a program. They have both a TRI/Prelim IM year, and an ACGME/AOA combined three year program. So, I stand corrected, they do exist.

Thank you very much, APD.

 

[peppy]

During my interviews this year, I was asked where else I applied. Assuming that an internship program asked me what other programs I applied to, is it ok to tell them that I applied to psychiatry residency programs as well?

Personally, I wouldn't mention any psych programs. I'd just talk about other programs of the same type and emphasize that your most important goal is to stay in the same geographic area.

Even though it really isn't necessary anymore (based on Resolution 42), one way that doing an osteopathic TRI might help you is that it seemed to me last year that the allopathic psych residencies in Michigan seemed reluctant to seriously consider DOs who had not already done an internship because they aren't familiar with the whole Resolution 42 process. If you did wind up doing a TRI, I think that would reassure the Michigan allo psych programs that you won't run into any licensing problems if you match with them. That could potentially improve your chances of being considered there the next year if necessary.
That is probably the main reason that if I were you I would aim for DO psych programs and TRIs more than the allo programs.
(But of course, I am not saying that I am an expert on all this, just going by what I would do).

 

[futuredo32]

Thanks, Peppy. I definitely won't lie, but will emphasize how important geography is.
I hate even the thought of reapplying. (But I don't hate it nearly as much as the thought of going unmatched again).