Reason for waitlist

[RedandBlack7]

Hey, I just wanted to get some people's opinion about my situation. I applied over this past cycle to 10 schools (UMDNJs, Drexel, NYMC, temple, SUNYs, etc.) and I received 3 interviews (2 waitlists to drexel and UMDNJ NJMS and one upcoming interview at NYMC). So as of right now I am pretty much looking at no acceptances, barring any miracle.

Here are my stats:

Currently a senior, graduating in May with a 3.65-3.7 (3.7-3.75 science gpa) and Cell Bio and Neuroscience major and Psych minor.
MCAT: 12, 7V, 12 Q
Experience: I have worked as an ER scribe for a year now, I am doing an honors thesis for my major, I shadowed a few doctors, I worked as a lab assistant for 1-2 years, treasurer of my fraternity, random community service events throughout college, etc.


I'm assuming that the reason I am being waitlisted and received no acceptances is because of my 7 in verbal, but I just wanted to see if other people thought differently. My plan is to continue working at the ER and retake my mcat and maybe do some more shadowing over the year.

Thanks for the input!

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[NickNaylor]

I would guess the average GPA/MCAT doesn't help, and the fact that you did "random" community service. What does that mean? I'd try and do something that's a little more consistent and regular.

 

[Adaggiote]

Hey, I just wanted to get some people's opinion about my situation. I applied over this past cycle to 10 schools (UMDNJs, Drexel, NYMC, temple, SUNYs, etc.) and I received 3 interviews (2 waitlists to drexel and UMDNJ NJMS and one upcoming interview at NYMC). So as of right now I am pretty much looking at no acceptances, barring any miracle.

Here are my stats:

Currently a senior, graduating in May with a 3.65-3.7 (3.7-3.75 science gpa) and Cell Bio and Neuroscience major and Psych minor.
MCAT: 12, 7V, 12 Q
Experience: I have worked as an ER scribe for a year now, I am doing an honors thesis for my major, I shadowed a few doctors, I worked as a lab assistant for 1-2 years, treasurer of my fraternity, random community service events throughout college, etc.


I'm assuming that the reason I am being waitlisted and received no acceptances is because of my 7 in verbal, but I just wanted to see if other people thought differently. My plan is to continue working at the ER and retake my mcat and maybe do some more shadowing over the year.

Thanks for the input!

What is wrong with you??? You applied to too many upper-tier schools. Try again.

 

[RedandBlack7]

What is wrong with you??? You applied to too many upper-tier schools. Try again.

Is that supposed to be a joke? Where should I have applied?

 

[raltima07]

Your 7 verbal might have been the cause of concern for many a schools

 

[Geneticist]

Here are a couple of things that could have done you in:

7 VR, lack of significant non-clinical experience, bad LoR, poor interview skills, too cookie-cutter (normal: nothing unique), etc...

Don't lose hope, though. Nail the interview you have coming up and/or wish upon a star that you get pulled off the waitlist at one of those two schools.

 

[anfleisch]

I agree that none of your ECs seems like you were too involved, into it just by the way you describe it on here. For instance when you say lab assistant for 1-2 years, it sounds to me like you were washing dishes. And you don't have any clinical volunteering and just shadowed a few docs. So if you are really doing something worthwhile as an ER scribe, then that is your only major thing and it is your job and no an EC during college. If I am wrong, you might just not be describing your experiences well.

And of course a 7 will hurt your chances.

 

[0919mmk]

What is wrong with you??? You applied to too many upper-tier schools. Try again.

I assume this guy is joking, because those are not out of your reach at all, and frankly I dont think anybody would call them upper tier. Having said that, I think those are great schools for you to apply to (I'm applying to that same group of schools this summer, and did in 2009).

I definitely think its just your verbal score. I humbly disagree with Cole, in that I think your GPA is right in line with the average for matriculants to those schools, perhaps slightly under if at all (dont have the MSAR in front of me). So yeah, retake the MCAT and nail the verbal- pretty simple I'd say.

 

[NickNaylor]

I assume this guy is joking, because those are not out of your reach at all, and frankly I dont think anybody would call them upper tier. Having said that, I think those are great schools for you to apply to (I'm applying to that same group of schools this summer, and did in 2009).

I definitely think its just your verbal score. I humbly disagree with Cole, in that I think your GPA is right in line with the average for matriculants to those schools, perhaps slightly under if at all (dont have the MSAR in front of me). So yeah, retake the MCAT and nail the verbal- pretty simple I'd say.

Exactly, I said average. You don't want to be the average.

 

[RedandBlack7]

I agree that none of your ECs seems like you were too involved, into it just by the way you describe it on here. For instance when you say lab assistant for 1-2 years, it sounds to me like you were washing dishes. And you don't have any clinical volunteering and just shadowed a few docs. So if you are really doing something worthwhile as an ER scribe, then that is your only major thing and it is your job and no an EC during college. If I am wrong, you might just not be describing your experiences well.

And of course a 7 will hurt your chances.

I just did not describe them well. Obviously I made it sound better in my application and interviews, and I did not want to write an essay here for people to read. But I did assist in projects and did alot more than wash dishes. Also, I am in a fraternity and was on the exec board as a treasurer. This year, I'm finishing up an honors thesis, and I've been working as an ER scribe, and I think I've gained alot more from that job than shadowing ever really gave me.

Also during my interview with my health professions office, the guy said my letters were good and he was going to write me a good letter and recommend me. I'm just concerned with what I could do to improve my application. Obviously I will retake the MCAT and try to do better than a 7 in verbal, but it seems kind of late to get any real volunteering or other experiences in before June when applications are submitted.

 

[RedandBlack7]

Here are a couple of things that could have done you in:

7 VR, lack of significant non-clinical experience, bad LoR, poor interview skills, too cookie-cutter (normal: nothing unique), etc...

Don't lose hope, though. Nail the interview you have coming up and/or wish upon a star that you get pulled off the waitlist at one of those two schools.

What do you recommend that I can do from now until June to make me more unique? I thought as an ER scribe for a year, and a treasurer, and with an honors thesis, I'd seem somewhat unique although those things are fairly common among applicants. I would love to get more experiences in but I am very busy until April with my honors thesis and then the application for next cycle is already open in May, so it seems hard to do any significant changes to my application aside from raising my MCAT

 

[Adaggiote]

I assume this guy is joking, because those are not out of your reach at all, and frankly I dont think anybody would call them upper tier. Having said that, I think those are great schools for you to apply to (I'm applying to that same group of schools this summer, and did in 2009).

I definitely think its just your verbal score. I humbly disagree with Cole, in that I think your GPA is right in line with the average for matriculants to those schools, perhaps slightly under if at all (dont have the MSAR in front of me). So yeah, retake the MCAT and nail the verbal- pretty simple I'd say.

Of course I was joking!!

His Mcat scores are not equally balanced. In fact, his low verbal scores presents the applicant as one who cannot effectively communicate, and as a prospective doctor...hmm.

 

[dragon529]

You have ER scribe for clinical exp, but you should get a consistent non-medical volunteering gig just to offer adcoms another perspective of you. Study hard for the MCAT (esp the verbal) and nail that sucker. Be well prepared for the upcoming NYMC interview and send LOI/update letters to the 2 schools that waitlisted you. Statistically speaking, you should get 1 acceptance out of every 3 interviews. Don't lose hope yet cuz all you need is that 1 acceptance.

 

[Musclemass]

...
7 VR, lack of significant non-clinical experience, bad LoR, poor interview skills, too cookie-cutter (normal: nothing unique), etc...

I suspect at least three of these comments are spot-on.

OP, what were you thinking to apply with a 7VR? Were you doing MUCH better on practice tests but then bombed when you took it? Because if not, it was probably also a mistake to not postpone taking it until you did better on the practice verbals.

I don't think it would be a good idea to reapply next cycle if there is little substantive improvement to your story. I think you'd be better off spending a solid year doing something interesting, to be less bland/common (that will result in a distinctive LOR) AND to retake the MCAT. You can afford to lose a few points on the science sections if the result is a better VR score.

You've made a few tactical errors, be thoughtful about how you proceed. Good luck.

 

[RedandBlack7]

I suspect at least three of these comments are spot-on.

OP, what were you thinking to apply with a 7VR? Were you doing MUCH better on practice tests but then bombed when you took it? Because if not, it was probably also a mistake to not postpone taking it until you did better on the practice verbals.

I don't think it would be a good idea to reapply next cycle if there is little substantive improvement to your story. I think you'd be better off spending a solid year doing something interesting, to be less bland/common (that will result in a distinctive LOR) AND to retake the MCAT. You can afford to lose a few points on the science sections if the result is a better VR score.

You've made a few tactical errors, be thoughtful about how you proceed. Good luck.

I was getting mostly 9's on the practice tests so I must have just messed up on that one section. I heard success stories from other people with similiar scores so I thought that I would apply and hope for the best. I received 3 interviews so my application could not have been a complete failure. I am just debating whether or not to re-apply and add on a new (and obviously better) mcat score, along with applying to some DO schools. I don't know if taking another 2 years off is what I really want ot do.

 

[missturtle]

Don't beat yourself up, be positive a lot people get in after being waitlisted and your application is not as horrible as some people made it seem. Good luck!

 

[Astarael]

Based on the fact that you got interviews, I would say that part of the problem is your interviewing technique. You got 2 waitlists from 2 interviews, which tells me those schools saw something worthwhile in your application but were neither awed nor bored by you when you were interviewing. So you could work on that. Probably the reason why you didn't get interviews other places was the 7VR.

It seems like if you bump that MCAT a bit you'll be in a good place to reapply this year, but make sure you apply to a broad range of schools. I don't know the stats for most of the places you applied, but 10 is probably not going to be enough for a reapplicant-at least not enough to have a comfortable margin of error.

 

[RedandBlack7]

Based on the fact that you got interviews, I would say that part of the problem is your interviewing technique. You got 2 waitlists from 2 interviews, which tells me those schools saw something worthwhile in your application but were neither awed nor bored by you when you were interviewing. So you could work on that. Probably the reason why you didn't get interviews other places was the 7VR.

It seems like if you bump that MCAT a bit you'll be in a good place to reapply this year, but make sure you apply to a broad range of schools. I don't know the stats for most of the places you applied, but 10 is probably not going to be enough for a reapplicant-at least not enough to have a comfortable margin of error.

So being a reapplicant to schools puts you at a disadvantage as compared to if I just applied next year for the first time with the same stats but an improved MCAT?

 

[Suncrusher]

SDN fear of reapplicant status is exaggerated

 

[startswithb]

SDN fear of reapplicant status is exaggerated

+1.

I was actually surprised the number of people in the general public who know that it can often take several tries to get into med school. Everytime I mention I am a reapplicant I hear it, from a local newscaster, professors, and even the ED security guard!!

 

[Astarael]

So being a reapplicant to schools puts you at a disadvantage as compared to if I just applied next year for the first time with the same stats but an improved MCAT?

That's actually a kind of complicated question to answer. Suncrusher and startswithb correctly pointed out that being a reapplicant has more of a negative connotation here on SDN than it does in the real world. Here's the logic I used to come up with that comment in my last post: you've already applied to 10 schools and your application was deemed good enough for a couple waitlist spots, which means that it was good but not stellar. Given that your application will change a fair amount between now and next year, you could consider yourself safe to apply like a first time applicant. Or you could consider the fact that you want this to be the last time you apply, and make sure to apply to enough schools that at least several of them will be a good fit.

Usually when you are a reapplicant, you have to change something. Not because you have a worse chance than a first time applicant, but because you already know that something about your application wasn't working. So you change your MCAT, or your personal statement, or your letters, or the schools you apply to. A smart person identifies where the weaknesses were in the first application and then changes all of them. That's all I really meant by that comment.

That being said, there is a specific case in which you must change something about your application as a reapplicant. That case is when you apply to a school you applied to before. Even if it was just bad luck that you didn't get in the first time (for example, they liked you but just didn't have room for you), if you haven't changed something by the time the second application goes in, you have really poor chances of getting accepted.

 

[Musclemass]

SDN fear of reapplicant status is exaggerated

SDN denials of reality are also frequently encountered.

 

[RedandBlack7]

That's actually a kind of complicated question to answer. Suncrusher and startswithb correctly pointed out that being a reapplicant has more of a negative connotation here on SDN than it does in the real world. Here's the logic I used to come up with that comment in my last post: you've already applied to 10 schools and your application was deemed good enough for a couple waitlist spots, which means that it was good but not stellar. Given that your application will change a fair amount between now and next year, you could consider yourself safe to apply like a first time applicant. Or you could consider the fact that you want this to be the last time you apply, and make sure to apply to enough schools that at least several of them will be a good fit.

Usually when you are a reapplicant, you have to change something. Not because you have a worse chance than a first time applicant, but because you already know that something about your application wasn't working. So you change your MCAT, or your personal statement, or your letters, or the schools you apply to. A smart person identifies where the weaknesses were in the first application and then changes all of them. That's all I really meant by that comment.

That being said, there is a specific case in which you must change something about your application as a reapplicant. That case is when you apply to a school you applied to before. Even if it was just bad luck that you didn't get in the first time (for example, they liked you but just didn't have room for you), if you haven't changed something by the time the second application goes in, you have really poor chances of getting accepted.

Yeah I understand what you're saying and agree completely. I just don't think I have much time to change anything really except my MCAT. If I had known I was going to get waitlisted back in November or December, I would have had time to do other EC things. But now, It's already the middle of February and I am very busy with my classes and honors thesis so it's hard to really find time to do something really amazing or unique. I hopefully plan on submitting my application again in June and studying hard for the mcat and then take it sometime in July-August. Hopefully I will get a good score and then can just add that on to my application.

Either way, I'm meeting with the dean from one the schools that waitlisted me next month so he can obviously shed more light on what weaknesses I had.

 

[Suncrusher]

baleted

 

[Musclemass]

So being a reapplicant to schools puts you at a disadvantage as compared to if I just applied next year for the first time with the same stats but an improved MCAT?

Schools like to see reapplicants who have spent the intervening time to improve their stories - new activities, stronger citations, better interview performance and prep in general. I saw a stat somewhere, I forget where, that said that other than when people have first taken the MCAT with obviously inadequate preparation, the likelihood of getting a higher score on a retake is about the same as for getting a lower score.

There are no doubt many factors you can improve. The more you can do, the better your chances. If all you do is retake the MCAT and then reapply, you're treating the whole thing as a roll of the dice, which it partially is but it's one for which you can somewhat influence the outcome.

 

[wanderer]

It hurts, but isn't the end of the world.

BTW, a lot of interviewers hardly know ANYTHING about the app process. A lot of them don't realize what's necessary to get in, especially at schools other than their own.