Reasoning for Certain Residencies having a bias against DOs?

[PA_dud3]

Is there a certain reason why certain PDs choose to overlook even well-qualified DOs for their residencies/fellowships? I know there are some highly competitive residencies that have never had any DO residents, but I have never really heard of a reason.

Speaking with all of the MDs I have shadowed/worked under, they have been really supportive of their DO colleagues. Is it an academic thing that stems from the past stigma? I just don't see how you could just sidestep a large part of the medical community when in a lot of cases there are DO students who are equally as competitive as MDs. Just curious as to why this occurs, and I apologize if there isn't a clear answer. Not trying to start any controversial discussions, either.

Best,

Dd3.

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[deleted480308]

Is there a certain reason why certain PDs choose to overlook even well-qualified DOs for their residencies/fellowships? I know there are some highly competitive residencies that have never had any DO residents, but I have never really heard of a reason.

Speaking with all of the MDs I have shadowed/worked under, they have been really supportive of their DO colleagues. Is it an academic thing that stems from the past stigma? I just don't see how you could just sidestep a large part of the medical community when in a lot of cases there are DO students who are equally as competitive as MDs. Just curious as to why this occurs, and I apologize if there isn't a clear answer. Not trying to start any controversial discussions, either.

Best,

Dd3.

They don’t have to bother with us to still have an overabundance of qualified applicants. It’s just another method of narrowing the field

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Because I believe they can just filter all DO students out and never even see one DO student app. If they run out of qualified MD students, then maybe they might remove the filter and fall on a more qualified DO, or if a DO has really good contacts to advocate for them or if they really shined on audition, maybe they might look at their app.

Edit: Also some PDs are super old school bias physicians that just would rather have any average MD over any superstar DO.

 

[Goro]

They don’t have to bother with us to still have an overabundance of qualified applicants. It’s just another method of narrowing the field

That's one
2) They're worried about elitist candidates saying "there are DO's there??? What's wrong with THAT program???!!!" This ignores the fact that MDs do this to each other as well
3) They're worried about the poor clinical training offered at some DO schools, and tar the entire graduate population with the same brush.
EDIT 4) The mentality of the bias against the "cult of Still" has largely dissipated, due to the retirement of older, more prejudiced PDs.

 

[PA_dud3]

That's one
2) They're worried about elitist candidates saying "there are DO's there??? What's wrong with THAT program???!!!" This ignores the fact that MDs do this to each other as well
3) They're worried about the poor clinical training offered at some DO schools, and tar the entire graduate population with the same brush.

Do you think with the merger this will eventually fade or do you expect it to linger indefinitely? Are there many DO programs who refuse to take MDs after the merger?

 

[Goro]

Do you think with the merger this will eventually fade or do you expect it to linger indefinitely? Are there many DO programs who refuse to take MDs after the merger?

We are seeing evidence already that the merger is having positive benefits for DOs. You probably haven't been on SDN long enough to remember the world is ending posts.

I know of several former AOA residencies that are requiring a sky high USMLE score but an avg. COMLEX score as a means of stacking the deck for DOs. Quite ruthless and ingenious of them, honestly.

 

[deleted947265]

We are seeing evidence already that the merger is having positive benefits for DOs. You probably haven't been on SDN long enough to remember the world is ending posts.

When you've seen one SDN doomsday post, you've seen em' all.

 

[PA_dud3]

I had my fair share of doom and gloom when I was active in the PharmD forums. Some of it was probably warranted but my goodness, haha.

Thanks to everyone for all your help with my questions!

 

[zNoodlez]

I had my fair share of doom and gloom when I was active in the PharmD forums. Some of it was probably warranted but my goodness, haha.

Thanks to everyone for all your help with my questions!

The doom and gloom over in PharmD is based on facts and data. Doom and gloom here is just based on personal speculations.

 

[PA_dud3]

The doom and gloom over in PharmD is based on facts and data. Doom and gloom here is just based on personal speculations.

The main reason I got out of that mess, too, haha

 

[diesel2202]

That's one
2) They're worried about elitist candidates saying "there are DO's there??? What's wrong with THAT program???!!!" This ignores the fact that MDs do this to each other as well
3) They're worried about the poor clinical training offered at some DO schools, and tar the entire graduate population with the same brush.
EDIT 4) The mentality of the bias against the "cult of Still" has largely dissipated, due to the retirement of older, more prejudiced PDs.

DO students are just as guilty as #2. Majority of DOs or IMGs and it's viewed as a bottom of the barrel program. Also, the clinical training received on the DO side is definitely questioned by some programs/specialties.
These PDs are familiar with getting apps from students who have solid step scores, some sort of research, recognized letter writer, etc. So if they get an app from a DO who only took comlex (with averages bouncing all over the place), no research, no known letter writers and questionable rotations, why would they roll the dice. Of the students I know who matched at larger and more well-known programs, majority had applications that mirrored our MD counterparts. Auditions and networking have played a role as well. Unfortunately, resources and opportunities to build similar CVs are definitely not as abundant on the DO side.

 

[Goro]

DO students are just as guilty as #2. Majority of DOs or IMGs and it's viewed as a bottom of the barrel program. Also, the clinical training received on the DO side is definitely questioned by some programs/specialties.
So if they get an app from a DO who only took comlex (with averages bouncing all over the place), no research, no known letter writers and questionable rotations, why would they roll the dice.


Of the students I know who matched at larger and more well-known programs, majority had applications that mirrored our MD counterparts. Auditions and networking have played a role as well. Unfortunately, resources and opportunities to build similar CVs are definitely not as abundant on the DO side.

The items in bolded I already discussed, of the text in purple, this assumes that all DO students apply like this. Over 75% of my students take USMLE, and 'Ive seen similar for other programs. We only encourage our weakest students to take only COMLEX. I acknowledge that there are True Believers who tell students that COMLEX is all you need and is just as good at Step, but students know better.

I would like to redirect you back to the OP's very first sentence: Is there a certain reason why certain PDs choose to overlook even well-qualified DOs for their residencies/fellowships?

 

[nimbus]

Edit: Also some PDs are super old school bias physicians that just would rather have any average MD over any superstar DO.

And there are programs that have their pick of superstar MD candidates. Both average MD and average and superstar DO’s are SOL.

 

[ciestar]

We are seeing evidence already that the merger is having positive benefits for DOs. You probably haven't been on SDN long enough to remember the world is ending posts.

I know of several former AOA residencies that are requiring a sky high USMLE score but an avg. COMLEX score as a means of stacking the deck for DOs. Quite ruthless and ingenious of them, honestly.

Or they require an OMM elective. I encountered that one.

 

[Goro]

Or they require an OMM elective. I encountered that one.

Ahh! Forgot about that one!

 

[harrislakers123]

1. SOME Older PDs may have bias based on previously legitimate concerns that are long outdated (65+). This happens on both sides.
2. Regional Bias (applicants getting screened regardless of MD/DO status, but DO students attributing it to ‘DO bias’)
3. Poor applications (DO applicants that have relatively underwhelming apps for program or specialty they are aiming for but attribute lack of success to ‘DO bias’)

My take is that once an application looks the same between a MD and DO that both are successful. The REAL ‘issue’ is, a DO has to work harder to get to the same place (harder to get research/LORs/Network, OMM, two licensing exams USMLE + COMLEX).