Recommendation Letter Question

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smc285

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  1. Pre-Medical
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I had asked one of my science professors for a recommendation letter and sent her a request through Interfolio. She responded by that she doesn't use Interfolio and that she will upload the letter when a school asks her for it. How does this work? I am applying both TMDSAS and AMCAS.
 
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Did you ask your prehealth advisors about the etiquette of asking for a LOR?
Yes, they told me to ask through Interfolio. Is there a problem?
 
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You met with this science professor first and asked how experienced she was with writing letters for medical school?
Nope. I was a TA for her class along with several other TA's who are pre-med. I'm assuming she must've submitted letters for pre-med students for this past cycle. I had asked to meet her, but she said she won't be available till the end of the semester.
 
Submitting letters through AMCAS is pretty similar to the process using Interfolio. I liked using Interfolio because I could have my letters all together and submit early as possible. You never know with professors, you could be wrapping up secondaries and they still haven't written your letter yet.
 
You can explain the schools use a central service to access the letters and Interfolio is an ideal one. AMCAS's letter service is still going to be like Interfolio's as opposed to a specific school if she's her only experience has been writing letters for students applying to MS/PhD programs.
 
She responded by that she doesn't use Interfolio and that she will upload the letter when a school asks her for it.

Clarifying question: did you get a hint of animosity when she said this to you? Dossier services have been considered best practice for graduate school admissions at least since I first started college in 2013... it would be bizarre that she wouldn't be familiar with this if she has presumably written for other students in the past.

The way you phrased it makes me wonder if she has had experiences with her letters being manipulated in some way. The other aspect that comes to mind is that she is planning on writing an outwardly negative or "fair and balanced" evaluation (which functionally, is the same thing) and she doesn't want you to know that she would do that. (I am getting the vibe that, in other words, she is trying to enforce—irrationally—that you have waived your right to see the letter).

My two cents, which someone out there will inevitably disagree with, is that the entire procedure, from asking a professor for an LOR to having the letter delivered, should be a very positive and encouraging process.

Just my opinion, but if you're not hearing some degree of some derivative of: "Oh my goodness, I can't believe you're at this point! Congratulations! I would be so pleased to write you a letter and support you through this next season of your life!" ...I would have reservations about pushing them to write, or using that letter if they already have.

I think, to get to the point where LORs matter (i.e., you got to the point of interviewing and you're being considered holistically), a lot of things have to go right. And to be shot down over a negative or lukewarm LOR is a fate so demoralizing I genuinely cannot even imagine occupying that emotional space. I would also consider such a behavior on the part of a professor to be unprofessional, considering what one has to do to apply to medical school these days.

I'm aware that everyone has different personalities and people are entitled to having a bad day, which is why I ask whether this was a pattern, a one-off, or something else.
 
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Clarifying question: did you get a hint of animosity when she said this to you? Dossier services have been considered best practice for graduate school admissions at least since I first started college in 2013... it would be bizarre that she wouldn't be familiar with this if she has presumably written for other students in the past.

The way you phrased it makes me wonder if she has had experiences with her letters being manipulated in some way. The other aspect that comes to mind is that she is planning on writing an outwardly negative or "fair and balanced" evaluation (which functionally, is the same thing) and she doesn't want you to know that she would do that. (I am getting the vibe that, in other words, she is trying to enforce—irrationally—that you have waived your right to see the letter).

My two cents, which someone out there will inevitably disagree with, is that the entire procedure, from asking a professor for an LOR to having the letter delivered, should be a very positive and encouraging process.

Just my opinion, but if you're not hearing some degree of some derivative of: "Oh my goodness, I can't believe you're at this point! Congratulations! I would be so pleased to write you a letter and support you through this next season of your life!" ...I would have reservations about pushing them to write, or using that letter if they already have.

I think, to get to the point where LORs matter (i.e., you got to the point of interviewing and you're being considered holistically), a lot of things have to go right. And to be shot down over a negative or lukewarm LOR is a fate so demoralizing I genuinely cannot even imagine occupying that emotional space. I would also consider such a behavior on the part of a professor to be unprofessional, considering what one has to do to apply to medical school these days.

I'm aware that everyone has different personalities and people are entitled to having a bad day, which is why I ask whether this was a pattern, a one-off, or something else.
Hi, thank you so much for this response! I’m not really sure if she has any reservations. She did respond to my email pretty quickly and said “of course” when I’d asked her for a rec letter. She made me fill out a questionnaire with everything about me, where i see myself, why I’m applying, etc. she did tell me that she was planning on having me as a teaching assistant for next semester as well. I am having second thoughts based on your response. I’m planning on asking another professor but the only problem is that she doesn’t really remember me since she teaches 700 students each semester and it’s been a year since I have taken her class, however, she did agree to write a letter a week after I’d asked her and asked me to fill out a form. Just curious though, wouldnt it be a little suspicious if I don’t get a rec letter from the professor I was a teaching assistant for?
 
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Hi, thank you so much for this response! I’m not really sure if she has any reservations. She did respond to my email pretty quickly and said “of course” when I’d asked her for a rec letter. She made me fill out a questionnaire with everything about me, where i see myself, why I’m applying, etc. she did tell me that she was planning on having me as a teaching assistant for next semester as well. I am having second thoughts based on your response. I’m planning on asking another professor but the only problem is that she doesn’t really remember me since she teaches 700 students each semester and it’s been a year since I have taken her class, however, she did agree to write a letter a week after I’d asked her and asked me to fill out a form. Just curious though, wouldnt it be a little suspicious if I don’t get a rec letter from the professor I was a teaching assistant for?
I find it valuable to have a face-to-face conversation with the professor where you can ask questions about how strong your letter will be (given that you sent a questionnaire beforehand). You still haven't spoken with the professor?
 
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Hi, thank you so much for this response! I’m not really sure if she has any reservations. She did respond to my email pretty quickly and said “of course” when I’d asked her for a rec letter. She made me fill out a questionnaire with everything about me, where i see myself, why I’m applying, etc. she did tell me that she was planning on having me as a teaching assistant for next semester as well. I am having second thoughts based on your response. I’m planning on asking another professor but the only problem is that she doesn’t really remember me since she teaches 700 students each semester and it’s been a year since I have taken her class, however, she did agree to write a letter a week after I’d asked her and asked me to fill out a form. Just curious though, wouldnt it be a little suspicious if I don’t get a rec letter from the professor I was a teaching assistant for?

Usually the only letter that would brew suspicion with its absence would be a PI letter, since usually they tend to become the informal career advisors/mentors and are widely perceived to be the most friendly individual to the student... so if you performed research for over a year and did not get one from them, it usually sparks some curiosity. All of this to say, it's totally OK to get a letter from some other professor.

Yeah, it will be hard to get a response out of a professor whose class you're no longer taking and who probably does not remember you. It is sometimes hard to get a response out of them even when you're still a student and just asking a class-relevant question. I would ask you to consider really working your course history for hard science professors you had a good relationship with. Hopefully you were a student that sits up front, participates in class, attends office hours as a habit.

With LORs, I genuinely believe it can be a numbers game. I asked way more people than I ultimately needed, and had to take each opportunity seriously as if I were going to use their letter. There are so many ways this can go wrong: they could not reply at all; they could agree and not follow through; they could agree, submit, and forget to format their letter with proper headings or inadequate signatures; they could date it improperly; they could struggle to submit; in your case, they could have some abstract grievance with the process itself. Assume everyone that agrees will have some issue along the way and prepare yourself to be helpful and patient—but persistent. If a recommender e-mailed me, I would get buzzed on 3 different devices and respond within the minute. It was that important to me. That said, you gather more than you need because you can assume some will be lost to follow-up. Just like in real life medicine!

The point is, you're going to want to start building your dossier. Your milestones will be having enough letters to apply, and then having an excess of letters so you can pick and choose which will be strongest (or if you did this strategically, asking each of your letter writers to emphasize different qualities about you so that you can get even more strategic about which letters you want to assign to which schools). But it truly is mission critical for you to at least meet the letter requirement on a procedural level first and foremost.
 
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I find it valuable to have a face-to-face conversation with the professor where you can ask questions about how strong your letter will be (given that you sent a questionnaire beforehand). You still haven't spoken with the professor?
I had asked about meeting in person when I emailed about the rec letter but she said she won’t be able to meet till the end of the semester.
 
I had asked about meeting in person when I emailed about the rec letter but she said she won’t be able to meet till the end of the semester.
Is there another professor whom you would trust with an LOR who could meet you much sooner?
 
Usually the only letter that would brew suspicion with its absence would be a PI letter, since usually they tend to become the informal career advisors/mentors and are widely perceived to be the most friendly individual to the student... so if you performed research for over a year and did not get one from them, it usually sparks some curiosity. All of this to say, it's totally OK to get a letter from some other professor.

Yeah, it will be hard to get a response out of a professor whose class you're no longer taking and who probably does not remember you. It is sometimes hard to get a response out of them even when you're still a student and just asking a class-relevant question. I would ask you to consider really working your course history for hard science professors you had a good relationship with. Hopefully you were a student that sits up front, participates in class, attends office hours as a habit.

With LORs, I genuinely believe it can be a numbers game. I asked way more people than I ultimately needed, and had to take each opportunity seriously as if I were going to use their letter. There are so many ways this can go wrong: they could not reply at all; they could agree and not follow through; they could agree, submit, and forget to format their letter with proper headings or inadequate signatures; they could date it improperly; they could struggle to submit; in your case, they could have some abstract grievance with the process itself. Assume everyone that agrees will have some issue along the way and prepare yourself to be helpful and patient—but persistent. If a recommender e-mailed me, I would get buzzed on 3 different devices and respond within the minute. It was that important to me. That said, you gather more than you need because you can assume some will be lost to follow-up. Just like in real life medicine!

The point is, you're going to want to start building your dossier. Your milestones will be having enough letters to apply, and then having an excess of letters so you can pick and choose which will be strongest (or if you did this strategically, asking each of your letter writers to emphasize different qualities about you so that you can get even more strategic about which letters you want to assign to which schools). But it truly is mission critical for you to at least meet the letter requirement on a procedural level first and foremost.
Yes, I did do those things you mentioned about (going to office hours/participating in class especially since seats were assigned and we couldn’t choose where to sit). In my situation, would it better to ask the biochem or genetics professor?

Additionally, in regards to the PI, I was planning on asking the PI who I had worked with for 10 weeks over the summer rather than the one I had worked with for more than 1.5 years. This is because I feel like the summer PI was able to monitor my work more closely and I was able to publish an abstract and a poster. With the PI I had worked for 1.5 years, I feel like she would write me a good letter but I feel like I didn’t get much output from it in terms of pubs and posters. She also has many undergraduate research assistants and many different projects she works on. With my project specifically, I only meet her once a week. Would this be considered bad if I ask the PI I’d worked with over the summer rather than the one I’d worked with 1.5 years?
 
I had asked about meeting in person when I emailed about the rec letter but she said she won’t be able to meet till the end of the semester.
if it doesn’t feel almost effortless to secure a letter of rec, it may be time to look elsewhere for one. it just would make me wonder if they can write good things about me if they are putting me through the wringer to agree to write me one
 
Is there another professor whom you would trust with an LOR who could meet you much sooner?
The only other science professors I can think of asking are biochem and bio lab professors. With the biochem prof, it’s been about a year since I have taken the class and she teaches about 800 students a semester so I doubt she remembers me. However, I have emailed her and she responded a week letter asking me to fill out a form by end of March. For the bio lab professor, I took the class last semester and I went to her office hours a couple times but again I doubt she remembers me since our lab classes are TA led. Another concern I have with the bio lab professor is that I already have a PI writing me a rec letter (not from university) so I am worried they might be considered similar.
 
if it doesn’t feel almost effortless to secure a letter of rec, it may be time to look elsewhere for one. it just would make me wonder if they can write good things about me if they are putting me through the wringer to agree to write me one
Yes, that makes sense! I’d just thought she would write me a good letter since she wanted me as a teaching assistant again next semester. However, I am having second thoughts based on everyone’s responses.
 
Yes, that makes sense! I’d just thought she would write me a good letter since she wanted me as a teaching assistant again next semester. However, I am having second thoughts based on everyone’s responses.
She may not be ready or comfortable to writing you a letter. Professors are busy, but most understand the importance of recommendation letters. Just because you are having second thoughts doesn't mean you still can't ask, "What can I do to get the strongest letter of recommendation from you?"
 
Yes, I did do those things you mentioned about (going to office hours/participating in class especially since seats were assigned and we couldn’t choose where to sit). In my situation, would it better to ask the biochem or genetics professor?

Additionally, in regards to the PI, I was planning on asking the PI who I had worked with for 10 weeks over the summer rather than the one I had worked with for more than 1.5 years. This is because I feel like the summer PI was able to monitor my work more closely and I was able to publish an abstract and a poster. With the PI I had worked for 1.5 years, I feel like she would write me a good letter but I feel like I didn’t get much output from it in terms of pubs and posters. She also has many undergraduate research assistants and many different projects she works on. With my project specifically, I only meet her once a week. Would this be considered bad if I ask the PI I’d worked with over the summer rather than the one I’d worked with 1.5 years?

If it were me, this would not be an "and/or" situation, it would be a "both/and" situation. Ask everyone you can.

The nightmare fuel scenario is getting to application time, trying to prepare your essays, study/sit for the MCAT, SJTs, the committee letter process (if your school participates), all while running around campus (or furiously putting out emails to everyone you've ever met) trying to desperately secure any letter. I hope you realize that, without the number of letters you need, you will not have a completed application at virtually any MD school (though, I don't have experience with TMDSAS but can assume they evaluate similarly to AMCAS).

Without a complete application, you can send in the most compelling fantastic essays on the planet, a 12 PREview and 8Q CASPer, a 4.3 and 529...but nobody would know, because you never truly "submitted" and the file never goes into the queue of students to be screened/reviewed.

If you're applying this year, you need to be freaking out. Professors are busy and will not take kindly to emails in April and May that basically say "this is an emergency and I need you to drop everything and turn over this letter in 48 hours." You often have to give them at least a month, minimum 2 weeks.

To summarize: ask everyone you can think of, literally right now. Not everyone will say yes, but even fewer will actually submit.

The broader community will call me neurotic and intense, but my experience has been that nobody cares about my career (and the sensitive periods that move my outcomes) as much as I do. Assume that even those that genuinely mean well are somewhat disjointed/removed from the salience of the process unless you have a cabal of science professor family friends lying around.

You might find instead that most are pretty unaffected and cavalier about it, often because they are approached very often about letters from students past and present pretty much constantly. It is an unpaid half hour of work that can quickly mount to become a full-time volunteer job for them if they do not draw professional boundaries. Don't take it personally. Do take it into consideration.

The goal is not to make you feel more anxious... paradoxically, I'm trying to put you at ease. This process is very mentally taxing when it's all actually happening to you. You may find that with every loose end you have to tie, your patience wears thinner for every impersonal inconvenience, every snag, every question you might have as you go through.

If I could describe the application process now that I've experienced the full breadth of it, it is very much a "hurry up and wait" process. You're in the hurry up phase. Thank me later when your schools send you an A in October vs other applicants hoping and praying for interviews in January and February (g bless).
 
If it were me, this would not be an "and/or" situation, it would be a "both/and" situation. Ask everyone you can.

The nightmare fuel scenario is getting to application time, trying to prepare your essays, study/sit for the MCAT, SJTs, the committee letter process (if your school participates), all while running around campus (or furiously putting out emails to everyone you've ever met) trying to desperately secure any letter. I hope you realize that, without the number of letters you need, you will not have a completed application at virtually any MD school (though, I don't have experience with TMDSAS but can assume they evaluate similarly to AMCAS).

Without a complete application, you can send in the most compelling fantastic essays on the planet, a 12 PREview and 8Q CASPer, a 4.3 and 529...but nobody would know, because you never truly "submitted" and the file never goes into the queue of students to be screened/reviewed.

If you're applying this year, you need to be freaking out. Professors are busy and will not take kindly to emails in April and May that basically say "this is an emergency and I need you to drop everything and turn over this letter in 48 hours." You often have to give them at least a month, minimum 2 weeks.

To summarize: ask everyone you can think of, literally right now. Not everyone will say yes, but even fewer will actually submit.

The broader community will call me neurotic and intense, but my experience has been that nobody cares about my career (and the sensitive periods that move my outcomes) as much as I do. Assume that even those that genuinely mean well are somewhat disjointed/removed from the salience of the process unless you have a cabal of science professor family friends lying around.

You might find instead that most are pretty unaffected and cavalier about it, often because they are approached very often about letters from students past and present pretty much constantly. It is an unpaid half hour of work that can quickly mount to become a full-time volunteer job for them if they do not draw professional boundaries. Don't take it personally. Do take it into consideration.

The goal is not to make you feel more anxious... paradoxically, I'm trying to put you at ease. This process is very mentally taxing when it's all actually happening to you. You may find that with every loose end you have to tie, your patience wears thinner for every impersonal inconvenience, every snag, every question you might have as you go through.

If I could describe the application process now that I've experienced the full breadth of it, it is very much a "hurry up and wait" process. You're in the hurry up phase. Thank me later when your schools send you an A in October vs other applicants hoping and praying for interviews in January and February (g bless).
Thank you for this! I will try and ask everyone I can and then go from there. I really appreciate your in depth feedback!
 
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