Recommender will not show me the letter she compiled

[Nikki2002]

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i cannot imagine asking the profs that wrote my recommendation letters if i can read them--they would be like wtf?? I want them to be honest and frankly i have no desire to read their letters b/c it would be weird.

 

[Chinorean]

I don't think interviewers ask questions looking for "right answers". I think the best thing you could do at this point would be some mock interviews to calm your nerves a bit and figure out how to answer questions in a positive way.

That road in your avatar! It's on the way to Las Vegas!!

 

[MediMama23]

That road in your avatar! It's on the way to Las Vegas!!

From where?

 

[riceman04]

I recently wrote my Pre-med advisor letting her know that I will be utilizing Interfolio this year and although I waived my right to see the letter on the website I would appreciate if she could email it to me so that I would be adequately prepared in an interview should it come up. She remarked that since she directly quoted other professors she could not show me. The only part she could show me was the section she personally wrote. Has anybody encountered this before?

you seem a little suspicious of the people writing the letter...is there anything you need to get off your chest my Alex son...Alex son wash on wash off...practice on my classic cars and you will get over your suspicion.

Do you need a shoulder to lean on Alex son?

 

[jon0013]

👎

sorry bud your SOL...you waived your rights to view that letter a long time ago...no one knows yourself better than yourself anyways....you could try asking your professors but i doubt they would be comfortable showing you...

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

You asked your professor to write you a recommendation because you thought it would be favorable to you. According to what you said, they wrote nothing negative. So, why worry?

I'm a proponent for confidentiality. You should be prepared to answer any questions the interviewer throws at you. Even if you haven't submitted the waiver, you will eventually. In all honesty, when you do sign it, can you claim that you do not know what the LOR says? If you ask for a copy, I think not.

And to answer your question, I would be confident in not knowing what my professors specifically write about me. I would prefer a candid letter versus one that is skewed.

 

[the alchemist]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

the whole purpose of a rec waiver is so that the recommender can write their letter in complete confidence - feel free to say what they really feel w/o being afraid that u will read it. u just have 2 trust that u picked the right ppl 2 write it. some schools will even anonymously take out 'bad' letters 4 u though my alma mater isn't 1 of those - they wouldn't tell me if i had a bad letter in there hypothetically, and they also wouldn't take it out, feeling that it would mess with the LOR process. i'm not 2 keen on this last rule esp since other schools will help out their premeds by maybe not telling them who wrote a bad LOR but just taking it out and telling them 2 get another 1. i don't know how ur premed advisor wrote the composite letter without u signing a rec waiver, would never have happened at my school. either way, whether u technically signed anything or not, we theoretically rn't supposed 2 c the LORs so that the med schools feel confident that the recommenders wrote what they really feel. tough, but its part of the process so don't get hung up on it, everyone else has 2 go thru the same thing. - and i don't mean this in a mean way.

and u don't need 2 know what they wrote 2 prepare 4 the interview. part of the interview is 2 c how u respond 2 unexpected questions.

 

[thegenius]

and u don't need 2 know what they wrote 2 prepare 4 the interview. part of the interview is 2 c how u respond 2 unexpected questions.

I'm curious, are you keyboard challenged?

 

[jbrice1639]

You are all way off base!!!

no they're not...

I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake.

If you're telling medical schools you waived your right to see the letters, you can't see them and then turn in the form...that's just stupid.

I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it.

They're writing about you. You know what you've done in your college career, so nothing in the letter is going to come as a surprise. Unless, perhaps, you had a car accident and are suffering from amnesia, which you may have forgotten to tell us about.

I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be.

yes you are.

Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be.

It may not be any, as you say, skin off their noses, but they also don't have to show it to you if you're claiming that you waived your rights, regardless of when you plan to submit the form. you either waive your rights, or you don't.

How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors?

I was very confident.

I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them.

yes, you are.

My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible.

Having an advantage is good. Lying/cheating, which you would be doing, is bad.

While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

The application process is full of formalities. Get over it and follow the rules. And yes, i'm definitely full of sarcasm, but this thread is one of the most ridiculous i've seen in months...

 

[PurpleHaze]

It goes something like this in a potential interview...ADCOM: How did you enjoy XX class as a Biology major? ME: The professor was new and I didn't get as much out of it as I thought I should. ADCOM: Really? Well, Prof. YY said that you were a pleasure to have in class.
Suddenly I look like a fool for being honest about the class. And I am not upset that I "didn't get the answer" I thought I was going to get. It's the way that people disrespect me with their sarcasm instead of stating it in a calm and rational way. Things can be pointed out to me without being rude.

Your example is kind of bogus because if this was the case, you wouldn't have asked this new professor whose class you didn't get much out of to write you a recommendation.

Just chill. Most people haven't seen/read/thought much about their recommendation letters, ESPECIALLY if they know they say positive things, when they go in for interviews. I doubt any interviewer is going to directly quote one of your recommendations to you. Unless you lied somewhere on your AMCAS about something, you shouldn't have any problems answering any questions that come up during your interview, regardless of what your recommendations say.

Good luck.

 

[Depakote]

Listen, interviewers are forbidden from disclosing the contents of your letters to you by the same rules that prevent anybody but the author from showing you the letter.

The only reason you can want to see a LOR before sending it to a school is to know if the writer said something bad about you.

 

[ND2005]

Listen, interviewers are forbidden from disclosing the contents of your letters to you by the same rules that prevent anybody but the author from showing you the letter.

One of my interviewers wrote down quotes from two of my letters and read them to me.

 

[theunderdog]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

Alright dude, simmer down. I bet you 99% of the posters here have never seen a single one of their medical school recommendations. And if you said that none of your professors said anything negative, then what do you need to worry about? In response to your post, part of the interview process is being able to answer questions that you have not prepared for. And as for these recommendations and professors, I got one word for you buddy: faith. You need to have some trust and faith in the professors that you ask for recommendations. By waiving the right, you indirectly tell them that you trust them and they can trust you as well.

Plus, it's something that maybe you, me, and many others will never understand, but some professors are really clam-tight with privacy and confidentiality. When I gave my research professor a simple recommendation form with only checkboxes of "excellent, adquate, good" etc, he filled the form out and then gave it back to me sealed in an envelope.

Plus, I am speculating that professors have learned from experience to not let their students know what they wrote about them. I know dartmouth compares recommendations of different students from the same professor to know who was the better student and more motivated applicant.

So, confidentiality may not be something you understand, but you have to respect it.

Also, you need to hand in your waiver form BEFORE the recommendation is done or even written. what's the point of reading a recommendation first and then submitting the waiver?

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

Alright dude, simmer down. I bet you 99% of the posters here have never seen a single one of their medical school recommendations. And if you said that none of your professors said anything negative, then what do you need to worry about? In response to your post, part of the interview process is being able to answer questions that you have not prepared for. And as for these recommendations and professors, I got one word for you buddy: faith. You need to have some trust and faith in the professors that you ask for recommendations. By waiving the right, you indirectly tell them that you trust them and they can trust you as well.

Plus, it's something that maybe you, me, and many others will never understand, but some professors are really clam-tight with privacy and confidentiality. When I gave my research professor a simple recommendation form with only checkboxes of "excellent, adquate, good" etc, he filled the form out and then gave it back to me sealed in an envelope.

Plus, I am speculating that professors have learned from experience to not let their students know what they wrote about them. I know dartmouth compares recommendations of different students from the same professor to know who was the better student and more motivated applicant.

So, confidentiality may not be something you understand, but you have to respect it.

Also, you need to hand in your waiver form BEFORE the recommendation is done or even written. what's the point of reading a recommendation first and then submitting the waiver?

👍

 

[badlydrawnvik]

There's one professor at my school who is this nearly 70 year old guy and is so liberal that if you give him the confidentiality form he shreds it in front of you. He doesn't believe in waving your rights to see what someone rights about you. Pretty cool guy. Regardless, that's one out of every other faculty member that I've ever met. How can a professor be honest if he/she thinks you will read the letter later?

 

[med21]

I agree. It is not ethical to look at letters of recs, which are supposed to be confidential. If you had the right to look at it, then the professors wouldn't be able to be honest. The purpose of the recommendation letter is for med schools to see if you are a total whacko, and certainly you can't read those letters or else you would not submit them. I have been on many panels where I have reviewed letters of recommendations. I see negative comments all the time, and it's important for the process. If you are planning on reading them, then deciding which ones to submit, it is not ethical. Med school is an important decision for sure, but it is also a profession based on quality of character. Submit a good application, and if you are a good person, it will be reflected in your letters. Interviewers will not ask you questions on the letters, as they are confidential.

 

[the alchemist]

I'm curious, are you keyboard challenged?

no just a lazy text messager who's used 2 hanging around IT folks

 

[madi]

How can a professor be honest if he/she thinks you will read the letter later?

Very easily. If he doesn't have something nice to say, he won't agree to write the letter. And theoretically, he shouldn't be agreeing to write a letter of rec for you if he's going to write something negative anyway (or he should have the guts to stand behind his negative comments).

I actually agree with the OP's desire to see the letter, and I don't think he implied at all that he had an absolute right to see it (despite the attack he's received for doing so), just that it would have been nice and it was slightly disconcerting that the letter writer wasn't willing.

In the end, I think the idea of waiving your rights to read a letter is absurd. However, it's yet another way we sign part of our souls away in going through this process, and I agree that once you do it you're bound by it.

 

[Law2Doc]

I don't think he implied at all that he had an absolute right to see it (despite the attack he's received for doing so),

Actually in post #24 he did say he had the right to see the letter.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Actually in post #24 he did say he had the right to see the letter.

Either way, you should not be looking at your recommendation letters. It doesn't matter if you are "allowed to" or not.

 

[Law2Doc]

Either way, you should not be looking at your recommendation letters. It doesn't matter if you are "allowed to" or not.

No argument here.

 

[Bio_Engineer]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

Im totally agree with you, I dont think that seeing what recommenders wrotte on their leters would be that bad, you are not modifying them you are just reading them, actually I think its a good thing and Im gonna do that when time comes, if ADCOMS ask me why I did that I will just tell them my reassons and why I consider them valid. I know about a friend who asked the professors he must trusted to write a letter for him. In an interview, an ADCOM asked a few questions about how good was his experience with a particular profesor, my friend answered him and told him how good his experience was however he noted that the ADCOM was really surprised by that answer and when my friend asked why he was so surprised the ADCOM actually showed him the letter from that profesor, he almost dismayed in shock after reading such bad and unrealistic things about him, fortunately the ADCOM also thought so and discarded that letter. Even now my friend keeps wondering how many interviews he missed just for that bad letter and why this professor wrotte such things.

 

[Bio_Engineer]

In the end, I think the idea of waiving your rights to read a letter is absurd. However, it's yet another way we sign part of our souls away in going through this process, and I agree that once you do it you're bound by it.

One excellent point you made there. 👍

 

[Law2Doc]

Im totally agree with you, I dont think that seeing what recommenders wrotte on their leters would be that bad, you are not modifying them you are just reading them, actually I think its a good thing and Im gonna do that when time comes, if ADCOMS ask me why I did that I will just tell them my reassons and why I consider them valid. I know about a friend who asked the professors he must trusted to write a letter for him. In an interview, an ADCOM asked a few questions about how good was his experience with a particular profesor, my friend answered him and told him how good his experience was however he noted that the ADCOM was really surprised by that answer and when my friend asked why he was so surprised the ADCOM actually showed him the letter from that profesor, he almost dismayed in shock after reading such bad and unrealistic things about him, fortunately the ADCOM also thought so and discarded that letter. Even now my friend keeps wondering how many interviews he missed just for that bad letter and why this professor wrotte such things.

I don't understand the logic of your argument -- Allowing profs to be candid (even not positively so) is exactly the reason adcoms require the letters to be confidential. If a prof has a problem with you they want to know about it. There is no value to everyone applying to med school only submitting glowing LORs and discarding bad ones. The few bad ones that are sent in help the adcoms thin the herd. The fact that letters can be bad is not justification for seeing them. I understand why you would want to see them, but guess what -- not everything in this application process is the way you would want it to be. Everyone is in the same boat. You either follow the rules or you find a career path that doesn't require LORs with waivers.

 

[beetlerum]

I don't understand the logic of your argument -- Allowing profs to be candid (even not positively so) is exactly the reason adcoms require the letters to be confidential. If a prof has a problem with you they want to know about it. There is no value to everyone applying to med school only submitting glowing LORs and discarding bad ones. The few bad ones that are sent in help the adcoms thin the herd. The fact that letters can be bad is not justification for seeing them. I understand why you would want to see them, but guess what -- not everything in this application process is the way you would want it to be. Everyone is in the same boat. You either follow the rules or you find a career path that doesn't require LORs with waivers.

You are assuming that the bad recommendation was candid, but fair. I do not know why you think recs are always fair. In my experience, negative comments in recommendations have as much to do with the recommenders as they do with the applicants being recommended. I think a good argument could be made that if the recommender isn't willing to show you the comments, they should be treated with skepticism. I have know quite a few professors who believed that they should never write anything they won't show to the student, and I agree with this viewpoint. Reasonable people can disagree, but the OP doesn't deserve the self-righteous sermons telling him that he's basically a bad person for wanting to see his recs.

There is a reason that it became a legal right to see these letters. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to believe that you should have the right to see evaluations that will have such an impact on your future. It is rather sad that the policies of schools virtually force applicants to waive their rights. Regardless, you are waiving only your legal right, and the OP would be perfectly entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters.

 

[DRDARIA]

It goes something like this in a potential interview...ADCOM: How did you enjoy XX class as a Biology major? ME: The professor was new and I didn't get as much out of it as I thought I should. ADCOM: Really? Well, Prof. YY said that you were a pleasure to have in class.
Suddenly I look like a fool for being honest about the class. And I am not upset that I "didn't get the answer" I thought I was going to get. It's the way that people disrespect me with their sarcasm instead of stating it in a calm and rational way. Things can be pointed out to me without being rude.

As a bit of advice, unrelated to whether or not you see the letters, your answer to a potential question indicates a bit of a problem you can address. Never say negative things about a class or a person in an interview. You don't have to be dishonest, just find something positive about the situation. As someone who used to do interviews for applicants to the school, I can tell you that the sort of reply you gave about the class would set off a warning bell in my head, because of all the things you could have told me, you've chosen to focus on a negative aspect You don't need to be dishonest, but you can give the same information in a more positive light, i.e:
Interviewer: How did you like class XX?
You: The professor was new, so it was a little different than I expected, which kept it interesting. He put things in a different way, which made me think about them differently.

Even if the class was worthless you could say something like, "it was a class where we were really expected to do a lot of self-learning, which was good preparation for med school" or whatever. Just frame things in a positive light.

Trust me, no interviewer is going to expect you to know what is in your LORs. Sometimes they don't even have the LORs, MCATs, or GPA (otherwise known as closed file interviews). Then they just have the personal statement and your list of activities and jobs, etcetera.

BTW-- should you get into med school, be prepared to waive letters again when you apply for residency.

Good luck.

 

[Law2Doc]

Regardless, you are waiving only your legal right, and the OP would be perfectly entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters.

You lost me here. Once you waive your legal right, you waive your entitlement. The only right you ever had was the one you waived.

 

[Alex1803]

Im totally agree with you, I dont think that seeing what recommenders wrotte on their leters would be that bad, you are not modifying them you are just reading them, actually I think its a good thing and Im gonna do that when time comes, if ADCOMS ask me why I did that I will just tell them my reassons and why I consider them valid. I know about a friend who asked the professors he must trusted to write a letter for him. In an interview, an ADCOM asked a few questions about how good was his experience with a particular profesor, my friend answered him and told him how good his experience was however he noted that the ADCOM was really surprised by that answer and when my friend asked why he was so surprised the ADCOM actually showed him the letter from that profesor, he almost dismayed in shock after reading such bad and unrealistic things about him, fortunately the ADCOM also thought so and discarded that letter. Even now my friend keeps wondering how many interviews he missed just for that bad letter and why this professor wrotte such things.

Though in my defensiveness I probably didn't make it clear, a situation like your friend's is what I was referring to. I don't want to end up in that situation.

 

[Taurus]

What part of "you have waived your right to see your letter" don't you get? 🙄 This won't be the last time you ask for recommendation letters, so get used to it. Learn to pick your references wisely.

 

[austinap]

You are assuming that the bad recommendation was candid, but fair. I do not know why you think recs are always fair. In my experience, negative comments in recommendations have as much to do with the recommenders as they do with the applicants being recommended. I think a good argument could be made that if the recommender isn't willing to show you the comments, they should be treated with skepticism. I have know quite a few professors who believed that they should never write anything they won't show to the student, and I agree with this viewpoint. Reasonable people can disagree, but the OP doesn't deserve the self-righteous sermons telling him that he's basically a bad person for wanting to see his recs.

There is a reason that it became a legal right to see these letters. It seems perfectly reasonable to me to believe that you should have the right to see evaluations that will have such an impact on your future. It is rather sad that the policies of schools virtually force applicants to waive their rights. Regardless, you are waiving only your legal right, and the OP would be perfectly entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters.

I don't think its at all sad. If people got to see all of their letters, then obviously everyone would get as many as possible and sort through them to find the ones that they liked, not necessarily the ones that are most accurate. While I agree that professors should either write a positive letter or let the students know why they don't feel they can, I don't think that a student should be able to read the letters. If someone gets a bad letter, it does show a couple things. It shows that the app probably didn't know enough people in that position well enough to get positive letters, that the app has bad judgement in chosing letters, or (in a minority of cases, I'd venture) that the professor has something else going on. In most cases where a student gets a negative letter, there's probably something the student could have done to prevent it.

Aside from this, I think it gives professors the right to say what they really feel. I know with a few of my potential LORs I'm running the risk that the professor will say I'm a great student, able to use my head well, and a genuinely pleasant person, but that they don't feel I should go into medicine (I have a couple analytical chem / physics profs that really want me to go in that route). However, I'm going to ask them point blank when I ask them to write a letter if they can write me a strong letter of recommendation for medical school. If they agree to this, I respect them and trust them to follow through with their word.

A second question: what do you mean by "Regardless, you are waiving only your legal right, and the OP would be perfectly entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters."? What other right do they have other than their 'legal right?' If you waive that right, you're waiving all right to see that letter. Sure, you might get the priviledge to see that letter, but you have absolutely no right to it! I guess the op sure is entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters, but the op definately isn't entitled to actually see those letters, whether or not he believes he should be!

 

[austinap]

Though in my defensiveness I probably didn't make it clear, a situation like your friend's is what I was referring to. I don't want to end up in that situation.

I think he's the same person as bio_engineer. Can anyone check an IP on that?

 

[beetlerum]

I don't think its at all sad. If people got to see all of their letters, then obviously everyone would get as many as possible and sort through them to find the ones that they liked, not necessarily the ones that are most accurate. While I agree that professors should either write a positive letter or let the students know why they don't feel they can, I don't think that a student should be able to read the letters. If someone gets a bad letter, it does show a couple things. It shows that the app probably didn't know enough people in that position well enough to get positive letters, that the app has bad judgement in chosing letters, or (in a minority of cases, I'd venture) that the professor has something else going on. In most cases where a student gets a negative letter, there's probably something the student could have done to prevent it.

Aside from this, I think it gives professors the right to say what they really feel. I know with a few of my potential LORs I'm running the risk that the professor will say I'm a great student, able to use my head well, and a genuinely pleasant person, but that they don't feel I should go into medicine (I have a couple analytical chem / physics profs that really want me to go in that route). However, I'm going to ask them point blank when I ask them to write a letter if they can write me a strong letter of recommendation for medical school. If they agree to this, I respect them and trust them to follow through with their word.

A second question: what do you mean by "Regardless, you are waiving only your legal right, and the OP would be perfectly entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters."? What other right do they have other than their 'legal right?' If you waive that right, you're waiving all right to see that letter. Sure, you might get the priviledge to see that letter, but you have absolutely no right to it! I guess the op sure is entitled to believe that he should still be entitled to see the letters, but the op definately isn't entitled to actually see those letters, whether or not he believes he should be!

When you waive your legal right to see your recs, you loose your legal right to see them. But you might still believe that you should be able to see them, as a matter of good recommender policy, or even that you're personally entitled to see them. You are simply no longer legally entitled to see them. I'll bet there are lots of applicants who waive their legal right, because they are forced to by med schools, but still feel that really their recommenders should show them the recs (i.e. they have a non-legal right to see them). Surely you're not saying that there are no rights or entitlements except legal ones?

I understand your point about applicants choosing the best ones. There are two possible answers. First, recommenders could show you the recs after they are submitted. (This fits with what the OP wanted, which was to see his composite rec after it was done). Second, we could just accept that people will pick and choose their recs. I'm not at all convinced that this would be bad. Sure, recs would get a little better on average, but there would still be differences in rec quality (since applicants have a finite number of people they can ask, and it would be hard to avoid asking people they know well, such as thesis advisers, without raising suspicions). So an argument could be made that allowing applicants to choose recs would make them just as useful for med schools and avoid the occasional rec sabotage.

Your point about picking and choosing is obviously a valid one, though. Reasonable people can believe that recs should be secret. But the OP does not deserve to be attacked because he feels differently.

Edit: Oh, your point that people should know their recommenders well enough to judge is a good one. Yes, you should usually know if someone is going to screw you. But people are different in how they write their recs, how well they write them and how positive they are in general. I don't think applicants can judge that kind of thing. And to the degree they choose people who they believe are very positive in recs rather than the people who know them best, they are gaming the system, and I don't see why this is any better than people choosing the best recs.

When you have to submit a writing sample for something, you choose the best one. But that doesn't mean there are no differences in writing samples. Everyone has a finite number of samples, and some people will never be able to submit a great one, no matter how many they have to choose from.

 

[kirexhana]

From where?

from L.A.

 

[MediMama23]

from L.A.

Say whaaaaaa? I've never seen that road in all my years travelling to Vegas. I'll have to check that out next time.

 

[kirexhana]

It goes something like this in a potential interview...ADCOM: How did you enjoy XX class as a Biology major? ME: The professor was new and I didn't get as much out of it as I thought I should. ADCOM: Really? Well, Prof. YY said that you were a pleasure to have in class.
Suddenly I look like a fool for being honest about the class. And I am not upset that I "didn't get the answer" I thought I was going to get. It's the way that people disrespect me with their sarcasm instead of stating it in a calm and rational way. Things can be pointed out to me without being rude.

what? are you deficient or something? if you got a letter of rec from a certain professor and then got asked about his or her class during the interview, why would you say that you didn't like it, or mention that the professor was new? what kind of m0r0n would discredit their own recommender like that?

also, stop acting like you know what interviews are like until you've gone through them. it's a bit presumptuous to talk about what you haven't experienced like it's fact. (and if you're a reapplicant, maybe your whining is why you didn't get in) just my 2 cents.

 

[DoctorPardi]

The OP is obviously suffering from a mental illness better known as idiocy. Also it is very likely that this is a troll, but regardless the two often overlap.

First of all, medical schools expect the letters your writers write to be confidential. So in sending them these letters you give up your right to look at them by even entering the process. Regardless of if you turned in your waiver form to interfolio yet or not.

Second of all, no one knows what their letters say so it isn't important to be prepared for what the interviewer might ask you. Give an honest answer. If you aren't stupid you wont give a really stupid answer. Take this scenario:

You ask your genetics teacher to write you a letter.

Interviewer: So what did you think of your genetics class and/or the professor?

Good Answer: Oh I really liked the class, the teacher was nice and very helpful, include personal anecdote about him helping you here.

Idiot Answer: Oh the teacher was terrible, I mean I don't really like genetics to start with but he was horrible. I can't believe they even hired him, ehh I still made an A.

I feel confident you could "include personal anecdote here" because if you aren't stupid you would pick a letter writer who knows you and has helped you. If you chose a terrible teacher, who hated you, or you hated then of course either the letter is going to turn out all wrong, or what you say in the interview will not match what the letter says.

So long story short, stop posting it hurts my eyes.

 

[Zweihander]

I'm a little surprised that people are even worried about bad letters making their way into the files. My undergraduate school had a system wherein the Health Careers Panel would filter your recommendations (meaning, they would read them all even though you couldn't) so that nothing unacceptable or damaging made its way into your file. This way, professors could be honest and you could honour the agreement with schools regarding not seeing your recs, but were protected from submitting the letters totally blindly and potentially suffering from a professor having bad judgement or trying to screw you, etc.

Does no one else have this sort of a system? 😕

 

[MediMama23]

I'm a little surprised that people are even worried about bad letters making their way into the files. My undergraduate school had a system wherein the Health Careers Panel would filter your recommendations (meaning, they would read them all even though you couldn't) so that nothing unacceptable or damaging made its way into your file. This way, professors could be honest and you could honour the agreement with schools regarding not seeing your recs, but were protected from submitting the letters totally blindly and potentially suffering from a professor having bad judgement or trying to screw you, etc.

Does no one else have this sort of a system? 😕

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a Health Careers Panel, or a Pre-Med Advisory Committee, or a pre-med advisor, for that matter. My school has a pre-med advisor, but I'm not sure if he filters out bad letters. I haven't made it to the app stage yet.

 

[chandelantern]

I'm a little surprised that people are even worried about bad letters making their way into the files. My undergraduate school had a system wherein the Health Careers Panel would filter your recommendations (meaning, they would read them all even though you couldn't) so that nothing unacceptable or damaging made its way into your file. This way, professors could be honest and you could honour the agreement with schools regarding not seeing your recs, but were protected from submitting the letters totally blindly and potentially suffering from a professor having bad judgement or trying to screw you, etc.

Does no one else have this sort of a system? 😕

Ours will occassionally take out letters that they feel do not reflect the applicant or come from an inappropriate source, but they say this is pretty rare. Usually, all letters are included.

 

[DoctorPardi]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have a Health Careers Panel, or a Pre-Med Advisory Committee, or a pre-med advisor, for that matter. My school has a pre-med advisor, but I'm not sure if he filters out bad letters. I haven't made it to the app stage yet.

Yeah my pre-med advisor writes a committee letter of sorts. He talks to all the professors I want him to talk too, and then he puts together a letter based on my accomplishments and what my other professors have said. So I assume he will make it a good letter. That is if one of my professors for some reason was like, "yeah that kid is a real ass blah blah" he probably wouldn't put it in there lol.

 

[Dr. Pepper]

Three things:

1. When you waive your right to seeing a LOR, you WAIVE YOUR RIGHT to seeing a LOR.

2. The presumption that all LORs have to be positive is flawed because if this was the case, there would be no purpose of using it as part of an application.

3. You can most likely avoid a bad LOR by asking professors who you know and who also LIKE YOU. And in terms of the interview, it is best to have a kind word for all of your teachers. You'd be surprised how much a sincere comment can either accentuate a good LOR or disarm a bad LOR.

Best of luck,
Dr. P.

 

[Law2Doc]

When you waive your legal right to see your recs, you loose your legal right to see them. But you might still believe that you should be able to see them, as a matter of good recommender policy, or even that you're personally entitled to see them. You are simply no longer legally entitled to see them. I'll bet there are lots of applicants who waive their legal right, because they are forced to by med schools, but still feel that really their recommenders should show them the recs (i.e. they have a non-legal right to see them). Surely you're not saying that there are no rights or entitlements except legal ones?

...
When you have to submit a writing sample for something, you choose the best one. But that doesn't mean there are no differences in writing samples. Everyone has a finite number of samples, and some people will never be able to submit a great one, no matter how many they have to choose from.

You waive your legal rights to see something, that means you no longer get to see it. In this particular case, there are no other "rights" or entitlements -- there is no "moral" right to see a LOR because you are voluntarilly going into a system that requires them to be confidential. You are not obligated to apply to medical school, and not even entitled to get in even if you abide by the rules, and so morality or other non-legal rights don't come into play here. If you choose to apply to med school, you play by that set of rules, one of which includes waiving your legal rights to see such a letter. So no, you have no other rights or entitlement besides the legal ones you are waiving to see such a letter once you go down this road. You can "feel" whatever you want, but the system is set up to encourage profs to write whatever they need to without the fear of you seeing it. Some profs will feel strongly that you should not see the letter, others can choose to show you, but it is up to them -- the waiver creates a right of confidentiality to them -- their right, not yours. Profs under this system are, in fact, permitted to screw you over, and it is hoped that you are smart enough to choose one wisely who won't -- think of it as a test to get into med school, one that the majority of all applicants pass. It can be argued that a prof who chooses to screw you over is one you didn't take the time to get to know very well, and so that speaks volumes even if the adcoms discard the contents of the letter. So no, in this particular type of situation there are no other rights than that which you waived, and that of the prof NOT to have to show you the letter. While I understand why you would want to see the letter, that's just tough. The process is set up such that you don't see the letter and no one, in the interview or elsewhere, will expect you to have seen the letter.
The comparison to a writing sample isn't really applicable -- it is expected that you have seen and edited it and put your best foot forward (although lots of folks still end up with bad ones). In that component of the app you have waived nothing and would be following the rules of the process by tinkering.
This is a pretty black and white issue. You will face the same issue at the residency stage, and probably other stages of your career, so get used to it. I'm pretty surprised the thread has gone on as long as it has.

 

[HemaOncoDoc]

You waive your legal rights to see something, that means you no longer get to see it. In this particular case, there are no other "rights" or entitlements -- there is no "moral" right to see a LOR because you are voluntarilly going into a system that requires them to be confidential. You are not obligated to apply to medical school, and not even entitled to get in even if you abide by the rules, and so morality or other non-legal rights don't come into play here. If you choose to apply to med school, you play by that set of rules, one of which includes waiving your legal rights to see such a letter. So no, you have no other rights or entitlement besides the legal ones you are waiving to see such a letter once you go down this road. You can "feel" whatever you want, but the system is set up to encourage profs to write whatever they need to without the fear of you seeing it. Some profs will feel strongly that you should not see the letter, others can choose to show you, but it is up to them -- the waiver creates a right of confidentiality to them -- their right, not yours. Profs under this system are, in fact, permitted to screw you over, and it is hoped that you are smart enough to choose one wisely who won't -- think of it as a test to get into med school, one that the majority of all applicants pass. It can be argued that a prof who chooses to screw you over is one you didn't take the time to get to know very well, and so that speaks volumes even if the adcoms discard the contents of the letter. So no, in this particular type of situation there are no other rights than that which you waived, and that of the prof NOT to have to show you the letter. While I understand why you would want to see the letter, that's just tough. The process is set up such that you don't see the letter and no one, in the interview or elsewhere, will expect you to have seen the letter.
The comparison to a writing sample isn't really applicable -- it is expected that you have seen and edited it and put your best foot forward (although lots of folks still end up with bad ones). In that component of the app you have waived nothing and would be following the rules of the process by tinkering.
This is a pretty black and white issue. You will face the same issue at the residency stage, and probably other stages of your career, so get used to it. I'm pretty surprised the thread has gone on as long as it has.

It all comes down to integrity.

 

[dantt]

This situation is a bit odd. At my school, the student has to fill out the confidentiality form first, then give it to the professor who has to submit it to the letter collection directly. No shaddiness with students hiding the confidentiality form from the letter service.

 

[SoCuteMD]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

1) No, you waived your right to see the letter. It wasn't just "for the medical school's sake." If I recall correctly, that letter you signed waiving your right is a legal document designed to circumvent FERPA (Federal Educational Rights and Privacy Act - google it). Did you see that? LEGAL DOCUMENT
2) Medical schools will see that you waived your right to see the letter and you will not be asked specific questions regarding it.
3) I DID NOT WAIVE (gasp! I know!) my right to see my letters for this very reason. I figured if something was being said about me, I wanted to know that reading it was an option. Never did read it...so I guess I should have waived my right anyways.
4) This process is ALL ABOUT the formalities. Get used to it.
5) Work on your grammar before you submit your personal statement.

 

[foofish]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it.

Ummm...unless you've lied or otherwise misrepresented yourself in your application or to your recommender, there's no reason that you would need to see the LOR to match up stories. And if that's the case, then you have a much bigger problem than a recommender abiding by the rules...

 

[BozoSparky]

You are all way off base!!! I haven't submitted the Interfolio form to my recommender yet on which I declined my right to see the recommendation. I did so purely for the medical schools' sake. I do have every right to see a letter of recommendation and I know that nothing negative was written, but I need to be prepared come interview time to answer specific questions about it. I'm not insecure like you have made me out to be. Yes, I realize that if I waived my right (on a form I have not submitted) I am technically not "allowed" to see it. However, I haven't submitted the form and it should be no skin off of any recommender's nose to provide a copy to me. It is ridiculous to say how private the entire process is and those who think it is commonplace to go without seeing them are more naive than you are making me out to be. How confident would you be if you walked into an interview not knowing what was said by your professors? I'm not trying to cheat the system and I'm not lesser of an applicant by wanting to know them. My recommender would gladly have given me a copy if she didn't quote others. When applying to medical school, an already highly competitive and stressful process, it is no time to not have every advantage as possible. While I respect those who responded without an antagonistic and sarcastic response, there is no reason why a letter of recommendation needs to be so hush hush. This is a process that will affect the rest of my life and it isn't a time for formalities.

Hey Alex,
I don't think you should be worried about reading your LORs to be prepared for interviews. I do understand the desire to know what these letters say, but a confidential letter is very powerful, so feel good that you are doing the right thing. From the professor's point of view, he/she is free to write about you in the most honest way, without risking friendship, professionalism, etc. Also, by waiving your right, you show confidence in your abilities and trust in others - especially those people who you regard with respect. Finally, waiving the right takes away any likelihood of an applicant only sending the best letters...filtering, if you will. That's bad. I want to say...I really do understand wanting to know.

I was a graduate student once...and we were choosing REU students for summer projects. Looking through the letters...a lot of them were glowing. It was really difficult to get a damn thing out of them. But once in a while we got a very honest evaluation. This honest evaluation wasn't bad, just real. You know...it was very real, and I felt like I was able to understand and know the applicant as a person, not as superman. That's the only letter I really remember, and we took the dude.

Let your recommender keep it real. It will help you!

 

[notdeadyet]

Allowing profs to be candid (even not positively so) is exactly the reason adcoms require the letters to be confidential.

Exactly. I taught at a community colllege and would be asked to write LOR. Most professors think of them as just that: "Letters of Recommendation". If I honestly felt someone was a poor student and I couldn't honestly recommend him, I would refuse to write one. Very few professors have the free time and inclination to write a negative review in what is meant to be a recommendation letter. It's not worth it.

 

[notdeadyet]

Also, as an aside, I'm a little troubled by the whole argument that's popped up here about the whole confidentiality thing being more "hoops to jump through" and we can fudge the truthfullness here a bit and it will all be different in medical school.

Oh, trust me, if you're already taking a sloppy approach to right and wrong by the time you're 22, it's all going to be downhill. You might be suprised, but at 22 you're probably as ethical and righteous as you're going to get. If you're willing to cut corners and bend the rules now, you're going to do it ten fold by the time you're in your 30s. Guaranteed.

 

[fleetgoddess]

It goes something like this in a potential interview...ADCOM: How did you enjoy XX class as a Biology major? ME: The professor was new and I didn't get as much out of it as I thought I should. ADCOM: Really? Well, Prof. YY said that you were a pleasure to have in class.
Suddenly I look like a fool for being honest about the class. And I am not upset that I "didn't get the answer" I thought I was going to get. It's the way that people disrespect me with their sarcasm instead of stating it in a calm and rational way. Things can be pointed out to me without being rude.

That potential interview is so unlike any of my interviews. I talked to one of my interviewers for 30 minutes about running marathons and my favorite country music song though.