Regret over DO?

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Instatewaiter said:
as I said I looked at hopkins and MGH first. Neither had an easy to find resident list. 3rd on ceftazidime's list was UCSF. Easy website. You are more than welcome to look through MGH and hopkins' websites for yourself.
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Everyone should also remember that these department listings are rarely accurate. I've often seen DO's listed as MD's on departmental websites.
 
tkim said:
I can't believe you actually counted all those residency slots, but whatever.

I'm finding it a little disappointing you guys are ****ting over this guy's med school location in this thread. I mean, can you people get any more desperate with a manuver like that?

There some programs that will not take DO's. It may not seem fair or nice, but there it is. Most often it's the old school, well-established specialties with old, old white men who probably got into a fistfight with a DO many years ago and made a point never to take one in when they became chairman.

Many old guard think DO's are inferior. This may never change, but old white men do eventually die off and get replaced by slightly younger old white men who probably learned to hate just as much. It's okay, they probably wouldn't take the dude from State U as well.

Why you guys are even talking about this is a mystery.
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I know this is a bit off the main point but I know many "old white men" who do not hate. My point- skin color has nothing to do with this argument since stupidity transcends skin color.
 
Hallm_7 said:
Also, people seem to think the AMA is the MD version of the AOA. That's not true. The AMA represents all physicians, both MD and DO. Osteopathic schools get the same vote in the med student section as do MD schools. The AOA is essentially only for DOs. The AMA does not accredit allopathic schools as that falls to the LCME.
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This is a great point. There are plenty of DOs in leadership positions in the AMA, a group which welcomes all physicians and med students into the group.

The AOA's discriminatory attitude toward MDs is ridiculous and many DOs are fed up with their rhetoric and BS PR. We are not bone doctors, and we dont hate MDs, there is NO need for a separation between these groups anymore. The tone from the AOA is absurd, and I would encourage all DOs and DO students to at least consider the AMA as their representation. DOs need to work together WITH MDs, not seperate from them.

There is no time for this non-sense while DNPs, DCs, NDs, Dx, Dz, Dy vow for each of your jobs!!!! We need to stop idealizing ourselves, and ban together (MERGE in my opinion): or both our job markets are gong to be seriously affected.

Where Dr X did residency wont mean jack ____ when someone with a 2 yr education in Doctorate XYZ starts doing your job for half the price. WORK TOGEHTER - WORK TOGETHER -WORK TOGETHER!

In regards to this forum, I cannot believe there is a debate about how many DOs are in slots at Hospital X. Who gives a ____. This is like my ____ is bigger than your ____. It means absolutely nothing.
Why dont we compare tier 3 MD schools and there placement as well, again, it means absolutely nothing!

There are pros and cons to the DO, but this debate over who got placed where for PGY1 is just one persons extrapolation of a web pages match list. IT MEANS NOTHING!

CAN YOU CLOSE THIS RIDICULOUS THREAD ALREADY :idea:
 
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exactly. why are DO and MDs bickering when people in Pharmacy board think MDs are idiots and don't understand pharmocology? we need to unite against the invasion to our practice right by the midlevels.
 
Handy388 said:
exactly. why are DO and MDs bickering when people in Pharmacy board think MDs are idiots and don't understand pharmocology? we need to unite against the invasion to our practice right by the midlevels.
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Actually, it's not so much that those doctors are idiots it's that they don't take those courses like medicinal chemistry and therapeatics 1,2,3..etc..liek they do in pharmacy school. Those pharmacists are saying they're are idiots b/c one they don't know that physicians are not taught or two (which is the MOST probable case)they think doctors are stupid just liek doctors think pharmacists don't know anything and so the animosity has continued..
What they have to learn is to work WITH each other instead of downplaying the other's profession
 
fj4288 said:
Actually, it's not so much that those doctors are idiots it's that they don't take those courses like medicinal chemistry and therapeatics 1,2,3..etc..liek they do in pharmacy school. Those pharmacists are saying they're are idiots b/c one they don't know that physicians are not taught or two (which is the MOST probable case)they think doctors are stupid just liek doctors think pharmacists don't know anything and so the animosity has continued..
What they have to learn is to work WITH each other instead of downplaying the other's profession
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no, I like to think that physicians learn principles of chemical therapy through clincial practice. though physicians may not take formal classes, they are still well-versed in the clincial impact of drugs.

Head to the pharm board, you can see a lot of animosity toward medicine and a lot of posts hinting that pharmD should be able to regulate what physicians prescribe.
 
Instatewaiter said:
as I said I looked at hopkins and MGH first. Neither had an easy to find resident list. 3rd on ceftazidime's list was UCSF. Easy website. You are more than welcome to look through MGH and hopkins' websites for yourself.
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Hopkins' isn't too hard to navigate. Just google each residency individually. Here are a few where they listed their residents:


Anesthesia: 1/24 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/anesthesiology/Education/residency/Match_result08.cfm
EM: 2/12 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/emergencymedicine/residency/people/pgy1.html
IM (Bayview): 2/20 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/medicine/residency/currentresidents.html
PM&R: 6/17
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Rehab/Education/Residency_Program/roster.html

So Hopkins clearly isn't "closed" to D.O.'s although D.O.'s may find it hard to match specific programs there. But I bet a lot of M.D. grads would find it hard to match there too.
 
DO2Be2013 said:
Hopkins' isn't too hard to navigate. Just google each residency individually. Here are a few where they listed their residents:


Anesthesia: 1/24 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/anesthesiology/Education/residency/Match_result08.cfm
EM: 2/12 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/emergencymedicine/residency/people/pgy1.html
IM (Bayview): 2/20 (PGY-1)
http://www.hopkinsbayview.org/medicine/residency/currentresidents.html
PM&R: 6/17
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Rehab/Education/Residency_Program/roster.html

So Hopkins clearly isn't "closed" to D.O.'s although D.O.'s may find it hard to match specific programs there. But I bet a lot of M.D. grads would find it hard to match there too.
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Im a DO and matched at Hopkins for Anesthesiology this year. Its important to apply where you want to go and not let the presence or absence of DOs detour you from going for what you want.
 
Handy388 said:
no, I like to think that physicians learn principles of chemical therapy through clincial practice. though physicians may not take formal classes, they are still well-versed in the clincial impact of drugs.

Head to the pharm board, you can see a lot of animosity toward medicine and a lot of posts hinting that pharmD should be able to regulate what physicians prescribe.
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I don't think that is actually a bad idea. In some countries the prescription has to get secondary approval by the pharmacist. I trust the people that took all of those courses and live the life of pharm a lot more.
 
MossPoh said:
I don't think that is actually a bad idea. In some countries the prescription has to get secondary approval by the pharmacist. I trust the people that took all of those courses and live the life of pharm a lot more.
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I guess we can't agree on this issue. I trust medicinal decision made by a veteran of the hospital floor more than a pharmD who is not as clincially trained.
 
Are DO's really doctors?










































(just kidding)
 
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MossPoh said:
I don't think that is actually a bad idea. In some countries the prescription has to get secondary approval by the pharmacist. I trust the people that took all of those courses and live the life of pharm a lot more.
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Don't endocrinologists and anesthesiologists have a fair amount of pharmaceutical knowledge, just to name a couple of specialties? Maybe pathologists, too, I'm not sure. For that matter, I've met family practice docs who can rattle off all kinds of drugs, but maybe their scope of knowledge is more limited. But how can a pharmD know everything? There's too much.

Regarding who "knows the most", I guess I would pick a PhD physiologist or biochemist over a pharmD, not to take away from pharmD training but they're simply not at the same level.
 
Handy388 said:
exactly. why are DO and MDs bickering when people in Pharmacy board think MDs are idiots and don't understand pharmocology? we need to unite against the invasion to our practice right by the midlevels.
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any debate that your schooling focuses more on diagnosing and ours is based on the optimizing of drug therapy. Its not until you are out in the field that you will learn this stuff, and even then its more focused to your specific setting of practice.

Handy388 said:
no, I like to think that physicians learn principles of chemical therapy through clincial practice. though physicians may not take formal classes, they are still well-versed in the clincial impact of drugs.

Head to the pharm board, you can see a lot of animosity toward medicine and a lot of posts hinting that pharmD should be able to regulate what physicians prescribe.
Click to expand...

Have you ever dealt with a stupid PCP? This is what we complain about on our message board, doctors that don't have a clue about why they pick one drug over another. Unfortunately a few bad apples ruins the bunch and send us talking about the horror stories that we encounter. Can you tell me the difference between xopenex and albuterol? why would one pick xopenex?

Handy388 said:
I guess we can't agree on this issue. I trust medicinal decision made by a veteran of the hospital floor more than a pharmD who is not as clincially trained.
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I am pretty sure we are clinically trained. I would know better then you. and the pharmds on rounds will certainly know their drugs better then you will, maybe you will learn something if you weren't so narrow minded. Our job is to save your ass, and we do it thanklessly.
 
Sure they know a lot but there is a common theme where you can't be a master of multiple things. If you study one area hard it WILL take away from another. A person who has the job of studying pharmaceuticals will generally be better than a person that has other responsibilities. My dad has the same prescribing power as the anesthesiologist, internist or whoever else yet he is a radiologist. He hasn't had to look at much of that stuff since the 1960s. While he knows that he can prescribe drugs and may even know what stuff to prescribe, he would never do it himself because he has the knowledge that it isn't his expertise. Not all physicians are so aware nor do they have the time to debate potential reactions with the laundry list of medications many patients have. God only knows how many times I've seen a patient with 20+ medications on their chart. You have to know enough to say you don't know. There are varying degrees of expertise within the pharm people even. I just don't think a couple of pharmacology courses and years of prescribing the same group of drugs makes someone an expert. Are there exceptions? Of course. Most physicians don't prescribe a wide range of drugs and many patients don't have 3 pages of medications, but some do. Those are the cases where I trust a pharmD over a physician any day.

I didn't think it mattered much until I experienced it while in Germany. I went to the doctor and he gave his general recommendations and best course of action but then I went to the pharmacy and the pharmacist asked me a variety of questions and decided what would be best for me based on my needs. It was a great experience over all. The pharmacist discussed possible side effects, made sure I didn't leave off any medications, and gave the number in case I had any more questions. Did the pharmacist diagnose me, do any procedures or any of that? Nope...That was the doctor's job. The breadth of knowledge is just too large to know everything. If it were possible, we wouldn't have all the specialities we have.
 
Quiksilver said:
I don't think there is any debate that your schooling focuses more on diagnosing and ours is based on the optimizing of drug therapy. Its not until you are out in the field that you will learn this stuff, and even then its more focused to your specific setting of practice.



Have you ever dealt with a stupid PCP? This is what we complain about on our message board, doctors that don't have a clue about why they pick one drug over another. Unfortunately a few bad apples ruins the bunch and send us talking about the horror stories that we encounter. Can you tell me the difference between xopenex and albuterol? why would one pick xopenex?



I am pretty sure we are clinically trained. I would know better then you. and the pharmds on rounds will certainly know their drugs better then you will, maybe you will learn something if you weren't so narrow minded. Our job is to save your ass, and we do it thanklessly.
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While you jack off the fact that because xopenex is more B-specific it doesn't cause the same side effects as albuterol. I can promise you, from the clinical side of things, there is HARDLY a discernible difference between the two.

If your example was meant to stump, try a harder one next time.
 
Buckeye(OH) said:
While you jack off the fact that because xopenex is more B-specific it doesn't cause the same side effects as albuterol. I can promise you, from the clinical side of things, there is HARDLY a discernible difference between the two.

If your example was meant to stump, try a harder one next time.
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except that clinically albuterol is favored (in both inpatient and outpatient; I know because I work in both), at least thats what doctors prescribe.

I bring it up because, yeah its a stereo specific isomer of racemic albuterol which theoretically lowers adverse reactions and you can go to a higher dose. but heres the kicker; it costs many fold higher then the regular stuff and that raises copays. Besides the fact that its a rescue therapy and only should be used as such, does that warrent a 40 dollar copay every few weeks (it does not last a whole month if patient uses it to control instead of rescue)

So what do you do?

and you likely should use other agents for long term asthma control (ie inhaled corticos, LABA, and leukotriene modifiers).


tkim said:
A little self-important, are we?
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not at all, if I wanted a big ego, I would have went to med school.... I kid I kid. sorry to offend but to be honest our work is under appreciated and the errors we do correct often go without doctors even knowing. I'm not complaining or crying; rather to raise awareness. I can't stand dealing with doctors that don't appreciate our value.

Buckeye(OH) said:
Word, I suck at counting. I sure am glad you are good at it...and make 100k to do so.
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ohhhh you... So original! I haven't heard that one before. Why do you have a vendetta against me? Obviously you are insecure about something. I come here and say hug a pharmacist, appreciate what I do and you go on a turf battle. How mature... Have you been outside the classroom yet?
 
Quiksilver said:
except that clinically albuterol is favored (in both inpatient and outpatient; I know because I work in both), at least thats what doctors prescribe.

I bring it up because, yeah its a stereo specific isomer of racemic albuterol which theoretically lowers adverse reactions and you can go to a higher dose. but heres the kicker; it costs many fold higher then the regular stuff and that raises copays. Besides the fact that its a rescue therapy and only should be used as such, does that warrent a 40 dollar copay every few weeks (it does not last a whole month if patient uses it to control instead of rescue)

So what do you do?

and you likely should use other agents for long term asthma control (ie inhaled corticos, LABA, and leukotriene modifiers).




not at all, if I wanted a big ego, I would have went to med school.... I kid I kid. sorry to offend but to be honest our work is under appreciated and the errors we do correct often go without doctors even knowing. I'm not complaining or crying; rather to raise awareness. I can't stand dealing with doctors that don't appreciate our value.



ohhhh you... So original! I haven't heard that one before. Why do you have a vendetta against me? Obviously you are insecure about something. I come here and say hug a pharmacist, appreciate what I do and you go on a turf battle. How mature... Have you been outside the classroom yet?
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👍👍 PharmD's have a rough job and they work hard at it. Why does everyone need to put down others? I think we all knew the difference with xopenex & albuterol....not all know the expense of things. That doesn't mean you need to continue this useless argument. Just be good at what you do

In regards the classroom comment, that is rediculous.
 
Quiksilver said:
except that clinically albuterol is favored (in both inpatient and outpatient; I know because I work in both), at least thats what doctors prescribe.

I bring it up because, yeah its a stereo specific isomer of racemic albuterol which theoretically lowers adverse reactions and you can go to a higher dose. but heres the kicker; it costs many fold higher then the regular stuff and that raises copays. Besides the fact that its a rescue therapy and only should be used as such, does that warrent a 40 dollar copay every few weeks (it does not last a whole month if patient uses it to control instead of rescue)
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I'd much rather you just rang up these tampons, cigarettes and People magazine with my Z-Pak...and be quick about it. I'll ask a doctor about the important stuff. Thanks.
 
Hmmm, I'd much rather you just rang up these tampons, cigarettes and People magazine with my Z-Pak...and be quick about it. I'll ask a doctor about the important stuff. Thanks.
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rofl

In regards to the OP's question: regret over DO? No. Regret over med-school in general? Yes. I'm wasting the best years of my life diving into a quarter million dollars of debt, all to go into a field that will see reimbursement likely decrease over the coming decade.

All my friends are buying houses, having kids and starting families while I see 20-25 patients a day with either DM, HTN, CAD, COPD/Bronchitis, or some combination of those. f my life.
 
FlaMedic said:
Hmmm, I'd much rather you just rang up these tampons, cigarettes and People magazine with my Z-Pak...and be quick about it. I'll ask a doctor about the important stuff. Thanks.
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A smoker who reads People magazine and is on her period? Keep me far, far away from this person.
 
FlaMedic said:
Hmmm, I'd much rather you just rang up these tampons, cigarettes and People magazine with my Z-Pak...and be quick about it. I'll ask a doctor about the important stuff. Thanks.
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great have fun with your sub-par mcat...and science gpa ringing up 300,000 dollars in DO student loans and finishing at almost 40 and starting residency...just dont ask for a bailout....sorry had to reply to this ridiculous post as im going to give a lecture to med students tomorrow

sorry but this all is a stupid argument...i work with a transplant program..ask those surgeons if im useful or not since they hired me

quicksilver stop posting in here please
 
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bigpharmD said:
great have fun with your sub-par mcat...and science gpa ringing up 300,000 dollars in DO student loans and finishing at almost 40 and starting residency...just dont ask for a bailout....sorry had to reply to this ridiculous post as im going to give a lecture to med students tomorrow

sorry but this all is a stupid argument...i work with a transplant program..ask those surgeons if im useful or not since they hired me

quicksilver stop posting in here please
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Have fun with my MCAT? Not sure how. I already took it and got accepted. Im in-state tuition and National Guard ASR program so I'll actually graduate with about 40K in the bank and 0K debt.

Oh, and I'll be 38 when I'm a doctor, and you'll still be well...a Pharmacist.
 
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