Regret over DO?

[jtballin]

Hey guys.

I've recently been accepted into a DO school and had been looking forward to it immensely. However, after reading some of the responses in these two threads:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407104
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=415343

my enthusiasm for attending a DO school has waned. What I like about DO schools is their philosophy and OMM, however some of the points mentioned in the threads above especially pertaining match lists and residencies has been reconsidering attending the school and possibly reapplying for allopathic schols next year. I've done extensive shadowing work for primary care physicians and I really can't see myself doing this in the future; I'm more interested in pathology and infectious diseases.

My primary concern with attending DO schools is a lack of opportunities (compared to allopathic physicians) for pursuing further specialities or just getting more exposure to the nitty gritty details of medicine. I realize that in the real world, your degree has no bearing on how good a physician you are, that is up to each individual student to live up to their full potential. However I'm just worried that even if I give it my all that I'll somehow still be "held back" due to misconceptions regarding my degree.

Are these thoughts realistic or have I just been scared reading these threads? I'm positing this in the medical student section to because I want to know if any DO's here have ever experienced regret at attending a DO school over an MD school in regards.

Not trying to start a flame war, I just want some feedback. Thanks.

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[Buckeye(OH)]

Nope, no regrets.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

nope, no lack of opportunities, and therefore hopefully no regrets.

 

[brucecanbeatyou]

Sorry, not a medical student yet. I would expect there to be some old school residency programs that are biased against DO's, but this is offset by the fact that DO's have their own residencies.

 

[J1515]

What I like about DO schools is their philosophy and OMM,

Do not go to a DO school expecting to learn a different philosophy than an allopathic school. There is no difference. If you want to learn OMM that's another story. Go where ever you will be happiest and perform the best.

No, I have no regrets.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

1. If you re-apply MD next year and don't get in, you would also be unlikely to get into a DO school, having already blown at least one off. So any DO school that accepted you this year, you can scratch off your list forever, and maybe others, if they were to find out. Then you could end up working at Taco Bell, which matches far fewer people into competitive specialties than any DO school.

2. Every year you put this off is a year of six-figure salary you're missing out on, down the road.

3. Are you planning on being a ****ty student, and being lazy, and being an ******* on all your rotations, and then counting on your school to spoon-feed you a competitive residency? If so, you should probably go to a place like Harvard, where name-recognition will be enough to at least get your foot in the door. Their website is http://www.hms.harvard.edu/

Good luck with that.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

I would expect there to be some old school residency programs that are biased against DO's.

You never know how true this assumption is either, much of the talk about bias against the "DO degree" is somewhat limited to this site, there is no evidence (atleast in my experience/inquiries so far) about any bias specifically targetting the holders of a DO degree.

 

[countthestars]

I've done extensive shadowing work for primary care physicians and I really can't see myself doing this in the future; I'm more interested in pathology and infectious diseases.

Lucky for you path is not that competitive and do's have no trouble getting into residencies. Looking back from the Match Lists I have from my school we have matched at Cornell/New York Presbyterian, Mt Sinai Hospital in NY, NYU, Einstein/Montefiore hospitla, Yale University. The Mayo Clinic, ect ect ect

 

[Styria]

I'm more interested in pathology and infectious diseases.

My primary concern with attending DO schools is a lack of opportunities (compared to allopathic physicians) for pursuing further specialities or just getting more exposure to the nitty gritty details of medicine.

I saw a post recently that path is getting overpopulated in general (regardless of DO/MD) and making it hard to get a good job after residency. But you would have to inquire on the path residency board whether that's the case.

I'm sure you'll get exposed to just as many nitty-gritty details of medicine in your DO school, especially if you seek them out.

 

[medking]

1. If you re-apply MD next year and don't get in, you would also be unlikely to get into a DO school, having already blown at least one off. So any DO school that accepted you this year, you can scratch off your list forever, and maybe others, if they were to find out. Then you could end up working at Taco Bell, which matches far fewer people into competitive specialties than any DO school.

2. Every year you put this off is a year of six-figure salary you're missing out on, down the road.

3. Are you planning on being a ****ty student, and being lazy, and being an ******* on all your rotations, and then counting on your school to spoon-feed you a competitive residency? If so, you should probably go to a place like Harvard, where name-recognition will be enough to at least get your foot in the door. Their website is http://www.hms.harvard.edu/

Good luck with that.

In the big scheme of things and assuming most people live for a long time these days, that is nothing. You make it sound like it's such a big factor.

 

[ChiDO]

In the big scheme of things and assuming most people live for a long time these days, that is nothing. You make it sound like it's such a big factor.

4 years of undergrad debt + 4 years med school debt + 3-6 years residency interest = a TON of $$

Thus, say you postpone 2-4 years of trying to get into med school, that's 2-4 years later you will be making $$$ and everything else in your life will get pushed backed also.

Is it the most important thing to worry about? No, but should you ignore it? Only if your naive.

 

[medking]

4 years of undergrad debt + 4 years med school debt + 3-6 years residency interest = a TON of $$

Thus, say you postpone 2-4 years of trying to get into med school, that's 2-4 years later you will be making $$$ and everything else in your life will get pushed backed also.

Is it the most important thing to worry about? No, but should you ignore it? Only if your naive.

Exactly my point. Of course, it's not an issue to ignore, but I don't think it matters much for this topic. This isn't something the OP should be worried about when making his decision.

Plus, how many doctors out there are doing well, living decent lives financially? I still don't think it's that big of a deal. I think people are afraid of it because it is a lot of money to owe, but if doctors don't come out in the positive financially, I don't think people would be going into the profession as much.

Iunno, maybe it's just the doctor's I've worked with and talked to that are doing well.

 

[It'sElectric]

It actually is a bigger deal than you think. The average med student (not speaking to non-trads here) misses out on the most important period of his/her life to start saving (their twenties). As a result, we're not only behind with loads of debt, but we're way behind in regards to savings.

Here's a fairly quick/simple explanation of compound interest and the importance of early saving.

http://www.filamwords.com/investing-your-money-the-earlier-the-better/

 

[It'sElectric]

Exactly my point. Of course, it's not an issue to ignore, but I don't think it matters much for this topic. This isn't something the OP should be worried about when making his decision.

Plus, how many doctors out there are doing well, living decent lives financially? I still don't think it's that big of a deal. I think people are afraid of it because it is a lot of money to owe, but if doctors don't come out in the positive financially, I don't think people would be going into the profession as much.

Iunno, maybe it's just the doctor's I've worked with and talked to that are doing well.

In the next 10 years we very likely will see less and less people going into medicine.

 

[medking]

It actually is a bigger deal than you think. The average med student (not speaking to non-trads here) misses out on the most important period of his/her life to start saving (their twenties). As a result, we're not only behind with loads of debt, but we're way behind in regards to savings.

Here's a fairly quick/simple explanation of compound interest and the importance of early saving.

http://www.filamwords.com/investing-your-money-the-earlier-the-better/

Thanks for the info. That's good to know.

But, aren't we talking about just 1 or max 2 years (assuming the OP gets into an MD school in that time period, if he doesn't then too bad for him)? Not that big of a difference.

 

[beachblonde]

I'm pretty sure that in order to do ID, you have to do IM first, OP.

So if you want to end up like Paul Farmer, you still have to go the primary care route in the beginning. Thus saying you don't want to do primary care yet want to do ID is definitely a contradiction.

Just a thought.

 

[Red Beard]

You never know how true this assumption is either, much of the talk about bias against the "DO degree" is somewhat limited to this site, there is no evidence (atleast in my experience/inquiries so far) about any bias specifically targetting the holders of a DO degree.

On the contrary, I think this site tends to paint an overly optimistic view. Having friends who went through the match process this year, I've heard about too many cases of "we don't take DOs" to believe the "no bias" line any longer. Its still out there, especially in university programs and in community programs in highly competitive specialties.

Combine this with my diminishing belief and interest in OMM (having now done my 3rd year OMM clerkship), my ideological opposition to for-profit medical schools (which the AOA has not put forth one iota of opposition to)...I would say that if I could go back I wouldn't do it again. I would have been more geographically flexible and gone to an MD program.

 

[Saregamapadanis]

did they say it to the applicant's face--> "Oh you were a good applicant, you have excellent scores and grades as well as good recommendations, but our policy states that we don't take osteopathic candidates, so better luck elsewhere?" or something similar? If they did, can you please provide me the names of programs that state something like this? you can PM me if you like.


Or is this the applicant's explanation: "Oh i can't believe i didn't land that residency, it must be because of my DO degree"

 

[Hernandez]

I thought I regreted it once, but it turned out to be gas....

 

[MossPoh]

Exactly my point. Of course, it's not an issue to ignore, but I don't think it matters much for this topic. This isn't something the OP should be worried about when making his decision.

Plus, how many doctors out there are doing well, living decent lives financially? I still don't think it's that big of a deal. I think people are afraid of it because it is a lot of money to owe, but if doctors don't come out in the positive financially, I don't think people would be going into the profession as much.

Iunno, maybe it's just the doctor's I've worked with and talked to that are doing well.

How many docs never seem to retire? A lot. My dad is 71 and still working. He lost half his retirement with the economy. Many of the docs that look comfy are still in very high debt. One has no idea what it will be like in 30+ years. One that makes the decision saying to ignore finances is an idiot and will have some serious issues with finances in the future.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

did they say it to the applicant's face--> "Oh you were a good applicant, you have excellent scores and grades as well as good recommendations, but our policy states that we don't take osteopathic candidates, so better luck elsewhere?" or something similar? If they did, can you please provide me the names of programs that state something like this? you can PM me if you like.


Or is this the applicant's explanation: "Oh i can't believe i didn't land that residency, it must be because of my DO degree"

Dude, you don't say that to someones face. Well, maybe some programs do. I know for a fact, some programs WILL NOT take women. I will not comment here or via PM which those are.

There's discrimination. Either deal with it, or don't.

 

[tony montana]

Dude, you don't say that to someones face. Well, maybe some programs do. I know for a fact, some programs WILL NOT take women. I will not comment here or via PM which those are.

There's discrimination. Either deal with it, or don't.

Supposedly, there are indeed some programs that will say it to someone's face.

As I witnessed some of the 4th years going through this year's match I heard them talk about a few programs that would say it right out.

And as far as I know it wasn't an issue of stats, and I have no reason to believe they're lying [the 4th years].

How much does that matter? not sure, not much I think, mostly all of them matched to some MD program at the end.

The specialties I heard this happening in were: IM, ER, Anesthesia and surgery.

Can't say which programs specifically...but it's outthere...

 

[DrMom]

Dude, you don't say that to someones face. Well, maybe some programs do. I know for a fact, some programs WILL NOT take women. I will not comment here or via PM which those are.

There's discrimination. Either deal with it, or don't.

Personal anecdote, FWIW: The only time a patient has refused to be seen by me it was because I am a woman, not because I'm a DO.

I have no regrets about being a DO or being in a (good) DO residency program.

I do, however, live in a very DO-friendly part of the country, although I am occasionally (maybe 2-3 times a year) asked about my degree by at patient.

 

[SteelCity]

I regret reading this thread

 

[Saregamapadanis]

I regret reading this thread

me too.

 

[medking]

How many docs never seem to retire? A lot. My dad is 71 and still working. He lost half his retirement with the economy. Many of the docs that look comfy are still in very high debt. One has no idea what it will be like in 30+ years. One that makes the decision saying to ignore finances is an idiot and will have some serious issues with finances in the future.

See, I would totally agree with you if the OP was asking whether to pursue a degree in medicine or not.

But this is different. Like I said before, I would assume the delay would only be 1 or 2 years max. I don't think that makes a difference, and thus should not be a concern.

 

[jtballin]

thanks for the insight guys, most of it was helpful.

im actually still waiting on 2 more (md) schools to get back to me so maybe i will avoid this problem all together. I guess some of the stuff thats been said on this board has just kinda gotten stuck in my mind, and it didn't help that my own physician recommended against me going to the DO school (but he's biased...he's an md).

anyways i'll just see how things go, good luck to all you med school students!

 

[cyclohexanol]

On the contrary, I think this site tends to paint an overly optimistic view. Having friends who went through the match process this year, I've heard about too many cases of "we don't take DOs" to believe the "no bias" line any longer. Its still out there, especially in university programs and in community programs in highly competitive specialties.

Combine this with my diminishing belief and interest in OMM (having now done my 3rd year OMM clerkship), my ideological opposition to for-profit medical schools (which the AOA has not put forth one iota of opposition to)...I would say that if I could go back I wouldn't do it again. I would have been more geographically flexible and gone to an MD program.

I concur 100% and add that the AOA with its antiquated and restrictive policies is just one more reason to not choose this route.

 

[nlax30]

I concur 100% and add that the AOA with its antiquated and restrictive policies is just one more reason to not choose this route.

It's not like it's much better on the other side, go ask about what some think of the AMA.

I don't have any regrets thus far. The whole philosophy thing has already been hashed out and I went into it with a realistic understanding that there really isn't a difference. OMM can be good for what it should be used for, and I've already gotten to use on medical missions, and with family. The head of our OMM department here is terrific and very practical about what it's good for and what it's not good for.

For me location was more important and the wife and I are near our families and in a place that's good for her career. So there's just too many variables to make any sort of blanket statement here, everyone is going to prioritize these factors differently.

One aspect I am kind of enjoying is that DO is the smaller field and it can be like a small town at times in that everyone seems to know everyone else. Here in Florida there are good number of DO's and when I go to conferences and being involved at the state level I'll see the same physicians over and over again and it's been fairly easy to form some good relationships with those that are pretty well connected at the state, national, and academic levels.

 

[DrJosephKim]

I know some great DOs and they love what they do and have absolutely no regrets. The opportunities are still out there and you can achieve them. It may take a bit of extra work, but remember that success is never guaranteed if you get an MD.

 

[JaggerPlate]

It's not like it's much better on the other side, go ask about what some think of the AMA.
.

I've heard a lot of bad stuff about those guys as well.

 

[Huntr]

Ahhhhh.....I remember having those doubts too, I think it's normal.....trust me when I say that when you get out into rotations....there literally is no difference. Be happy you're going to be a doctor and be able to help many people throughout your life....all of the rest it doesn't matter.

Oh....and a bit of advice, in case you haven't noticed already....SDN is a bit biased....ha ha....stay off of here....it in no way represents the real world, I have been a member since 05 and as you can see have posted only 30+ times, this site is a joke in many ways.

 

[Bleurberry]

I don't want a thread I started to discourage you, or anyone else.
I was letting off some steam. Kinda sucks that it was dug up from 2007 anyhow.
I got into PCOM since then and it never stopped being my #1 choice.
And the person I was referring to having the debate with in that thread was laughibly out of touch with the subject matter - it was really an embarrassing situation.
But it's funny - I felt SDN more than adequately prepared me for an encounter with an attending who had a DO bias - and you feel that SDN (+ the physician) has turned you against the idea of Osteopathic Medicine. If you really pour through the threads on here and don't just cherry-pick the hot-topic ones, you'll get a pretty expansive sketch of academic medicine, MD and DO. Due diligence, and whatever choice you make will be the right one.

Hey guys.

I've recently been accepted into a DO school and had been looking forward to it immensely. However, after reading some of the responses in these two threads:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=407104
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=415343

my enthusiasm for attending a DO school has waned. What I like about DO schools is their philosophy and OMM, however some of the points mentioned in the threads above especially pertaining match lists and residencies has been reconsidering attending the school and possibly reapplying for allopathic schols next year. I've done extensive shadowing work for primary care physicians and I really can't see myself doing this in the future; I'm more interested in pathology and infectious diseases.

My primary concern with attending DO schools is a lack of opportunities (compared to allopathic physicians) for pursuing further specialities or just getting more exposure to the nitty gritty details of medicine. I realize that in the real world, your degree has no bearing on how good a physician you are, that is up to each individual student to live up to their full potential. However I'm just worried that even if I give it my all that I'll somehow still be "held back" due to misconceptions regarding my degree.

Are these thoughts realistic or have I just been scared reading these threads? I'm positing this in the medical student section to because I want to know if any DO's here have ever experienced regret at attending a DO school over an MD school in regards.

Not trying to start a flame war, I just want some feedback. Thanks.

 

[JenHeart]

I've rotated alongside many MD students and with MD preceptors. I have zero regret for pursuing the DO degree. My upperclassmen have such an impressive match list I am confident I will get the position I'm looking for next year with my DO degree

 

[schrute]

Lucky for you path is not that competitive and do's have no trouble getting into residencies. Looking back from the Match Lists I have from my school we have matched at Cornell/New York Presbyterian, Mt Sinai Hospital in NY, NYU, Einstein/Montefiore hospitla, Yale University. The Mayo Clinic, ect ect ect

Path isn't as competitive as rads, gas, etc, but all path programs are not created equal; getting in might be relatively easy, but that doesn't translate into good training.
in any case, path is more competitive than primary care, and the avg board scores are considerably higher.

 

[Peptoboy]

No regrets for me. I went into Medicine to give quality evidence based health care, service and provide for my family( $). DO or MD I think in both you can be happy, both are fully licensed Physicians!

 

[bigDinLV]

OP, take your acceptance and be thrilled to have it. You got into med school and there are plenty of people that don't. Your career will be what you make of it, not where you went to school.

I'm very happy with my decision. I'm about to graduate, matched into a great program and just bought my first house. It isn't about DO or MD. You'll be there too in a few years.

 

[CME2P]

did they say it to the applicant's face--> "Oh you were a good applicant, you have excellent scores and grades as well as good recommendations, but our policy states that we don't take osteopathic candidates, so better luck elsewhere?" or something similar?

I ran into this line of questioning exactly at I don't know how many places, but I still matched. Don't worry about this though, you do well enough and interview at enough places it doesn't matter where your from. I have friends from top MD programs that didn't match so its all about the applicant.

OP, take your acceptance and be thrilled to have it. You got into med school and there are plenty of people that don't. Your career will be what you make of it, not where you went to school.

I'm very happy with my decision. I'm about to graduate, matched into a great program and just bought my first house. It isn't about DO or MD. You'll be there too in a few years.

I agree with all of this completely!

 

[Amy B]

I thought I regreted it once, but it turned out to be gas....

 

[BeachBlondie]

Check this out:

Did you know that DOs can apply for MD residencies, but MDs can not apply for ones catering to DOs?

If--on a logical basis--you cannot figure out why, I'll be happy to explain.

(it's mostly because DOs are more attractive)

P.S.
Hey, everyone.

 

[TeamZissou]

Check this out:

Did you know that DOs can apply for MD residencies, but MDs can not apply for ones catering to DOs?

If--on a logical basis--you cannot figure out why, I'll be happy to explain.

(it's mostly because DOs are more attractive)

P.S.
Hey, everyone.

Are you sure? I thought I heard somewhere that DO residencies had a mandatory happy hour attendance requirement and such a thing would preclude MD students

 

[Old_Mil]

What I like about DO schools is their philosophy and OMM,

The more you buy into this, the less satisfied you're going to be with your DO education when you finish. There is only one valid evidence based approach to modern medicine.

 

[jbone]

Any regrets?

no.

 

[linkDO]

I regret reading this thread

checkmate

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I woke up this morning sobbing about this nightmare I had where I kept getting mail that said Buckeye, DO.

It was terrible.

 

[JonnyG]

I woke up this morning sobbing about this nightmare I had where I kept getting mail that said Buckeye, DO.

It was terrible.

you think thats bad I just realized today that the O in PCOM didnt stand for of. That was a real disappointment. I guess i should have gone to class more.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

What happened to the Idea that DO has a slightly different philosophy. I am not trolling and have a serious question. Actually I'm not going to even ask it because everything gets labeled as trolling, ill PM one of the DO's

 

[DrMom]

The philosophies used to be more different, but the MD and DO arenas of medicine have come to a common ground and now have no real difference in philosophies. The DO side may have a more formal articulation of the philosophy, but I don't think there's anything there that MDs would disagree with.

The only notable difference between MD and DO is OMM, which all DOs are trained in, but very few use routinely in practice.

 

[ladpm]

My primary concern with attending DO schools is a lack of opportunities (compared to allopathic physicians) for pursuing further specialities or just getting more exposure to the nitty gritty details of medicine. I realize that in the real world, your degree has no bearing on how good a physician you are, that is up to each individual student to live up to their full potential. However I'm just worried that even if I give it my all that I'll somehow still be "held back" due to misconceptions regarding my degree.

To answer the OP's question, being a DO does not hinder your opportunities in the future to specialize for example: 1) I met a retired DO in Chicago who was the head of ID for the advocate system 2) I talked with a DO in Kaiser West Los Angeles who is the head of pathology and his associate who is also a DO 3) I met a former chief resident at Standford, a DO, who went onto a GI fellowship

In the end, your ability to be the best doctor for your patient is not dictated on the letters at the end your name. Besides, this issue should be the least of your worries. Instead, think about how you'd want to spend one of your last summers wisely!

 

[DeLaughterDO]

No, not once.

A lot of people make a big deal out of the DO appellation, when, in my experience, the people to whom it should matter most rarely if ever even notice.

I have never once had a patient ask about the letters after my name. Never. I'm just their doctor and they are asking for help.

Of course, working in the ED, anyone who looks at me crosswise gets intubated before they have the chance to say anything