relationship status entering med school?

[medstyle]

Sorry for bumping this old post, but I'm having some relationship issues lately. I've been with my gf for 3 years, and lately we've been fighting a lot. The more we fight, the more I don't see myself with her. I want out of this relationship.

Yet, I am hesitant to break up with her. Even though I am the one who's going to initiate the split, I need several months to recover my feelings. After all, it is a 3 year relationship I am ending. The reason I am hesitant to break up with her is because I will be starting medical school this fall.

In a way, this is de vaju for me. Before I began college, I was in a 2-year relationship that I wanted to end. I ended that relationship before I went to college, and the split devastated me my freshmen year. I was in a whole new environment with few friends, no families, and a heavy courseload (which means I didn't have much time to socialize and make new friends).

I am hesistant to break up with my gf because I don't want this to happen to me again. I will be going to a medical school where I will know nobody, far away from my family.

Is anyone in the same shoe as I am? Nearing the end of a relationship, but don't want it to end cos' you don't want drama as you enter medical school?

if you break up with her now, you'll have plenty of time to recover. Plus, you get to meet all these new girls and stuff, which will reduce the blow of breaking up into a little prick.

Think about it: if you're gonna break up anyway and you don't like being wiht her, wouldn't it be better to get over the hard part now? Besides, the moment a new girl shows up, you'll forget about her anyway. You don't still think about that HS girl do you?

You have to have more faith in yourself in that you're going to be able to move on. The hardest part about breaking up should be you missing the other person for who they are, not because you just miss having someone around.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[KiKat37]

im in the same position........got a great boyfriend, but will be parting ways at the end of may

it really sucks cause like Karina, i cant just date anyone and it took me like 21 years to find him.....now im going to be ripped out of his arms....so sad. and mad! why can't i have it all in life? lol, we have a joke that if he's not married by the time i finish med school, or when he's 27, he has to come knocking on my door or vice versa.........he may think its half joke, but im kinda hoping we will meet again later in life....... we havent been going out for too long so the LD might be too much for us but it feels so right. goddamn it

I guess I'm kind of in a similar situation. I have been with my bf for the past two years and he is really great. But, we have already been doing the LD thing for almost a year now and I don't know if I can/want to do it for another 4 years. It's not really the distance itself because we are only 2-3 hours away right now and the distance will be the same when I start med school. But, we are both so busy that we barely see each other one weekend per month the way things are right now. And, god knows that they won't get better when med school starts! I just don't think it's gonna work with even busier schedules... But, I guess this is a sign that he is not "the" right person. A lot of people seem to make things work despite busy schedule and long distance - as long as they are right for each other. It's sad, but I feel like I should probably let it go...

 

[byeh2004]

i think my ideal wife would be an opposite field of what im working in that has completely nothing to do with medicine... like an english professor or philosophy professor, i'd really hate having a wife that is a doctor, theres just too much competition if there was

 

[maia]

i think my ideal wife would be an opposite field of what im working in that has completely nothing to do with medicine... like an english professor or philosophy professor, i'd really hate having a wife that is a doctor, theres just too much competition if there was

me too! so that my husband can help me catch up on my other interests!
i was also thinking, maybe a nurse too, so that he can take care of the babies when i'm working....
my male nursing classmates are pretty good in bathing babies and postpartum care of mommies and they're great at back rubs

 

[jdovez]

i think my ideal wife would be an opposite field of what im working in that has completely nothing to do with medicine... like an english professor or philosophy professor, i'd really hate having a wife that is a doctor, theres just too much competition if there was

Thats my theory.....my gf is a kindergarten teacher with an English degree and incredibly artsy (all things I am not). It helps to make life more interesting.

 

[leechy]

I mean, you emerge from the end of the tunnel, and you're a commodity.

It's kind of a less than healthy attitude, but hey, I've seen several family friends just have the pick of the litter after they finished up school.

I think this only applies to men. That's one of my concerns about male docs - unless they're brick-ugly, they're always going to have lovely women throwing themselves at their feet... I don't want to have to compete with that for a lifetime. My plan is to sugarmomma an impoverished grad student. ("Cheat on me, and you lose your 'stipend', buddy!")

Really though, I agree with Juniper. Relationships come and go, but you'll probably be in medicine your whole life. That's one of the reasons I'm doing medicine: if I were doing some dead-end job, AND my personal life wasn't going well (after all, most people who marry end up getting divorced, so you'll probably go through at least one rocky personal time in your life), then I would be very depressed. But this way, even though medicine is time and soul-consuming, and even though it requires some sacrifices, I'll have a profession that can keep me busy and fulfilled even while the personal aspect of life is going poorly. Yeah, I know it sounds a little cynical, but this is the 21st century. Gotta be prepared (in my case, for being a spinster or bitter divorcee ).

 

[MsEvolution]

I think we should add the "Single, because the prospect of going to med school ruined my relationship" option on this poll. Can you tell I'm bitter?

I would probably choose this one. But no bitterness here. Given the choice between med school and a particular relationship... and it IS a hard choice... it's still a clear one. Med school--no doubt about it. Med school will give you returns based on your investment--that's a guarantee. People, on the other hand, are unreliable. It may be close to perfection now, but you can't be sure that things won't change... that one day you'll look back and say--I should have chosen med school at that point!

There is ALWAYS going to be time to find another relationship. But med school is a very limited opportunity.

 

[sunnyjohn]

I think one of the biggest joy in life is to spend a lifetime with someone you truly love. True, medicine is very important for many of us. But, when you're 35 years old and an extremely sucessful doctor, will you truly be happy if you don't have that special someone to come home to? Someone whose presence melts away all your stress and problems?

entering medicine is a committment, not only in terms of time and effort but also in terms of your love life. Most would agree that the prime of your love life is when you're 21-30. Well, while many other 21-30 year olds are livign it up romatically, us future doctors are enjoying our time in the library/hospital.

Okay you just sucked all the air out of the room!!!

But you are kinda right....

I heap coals of fire on your head sdnstud!

 

[traveladdict]

My plan is to sugarmomma an impoverished grad student. ("Cheat on me, and you lose your 'stipend', buddy!")

Yes!!!! Love it.

 

[criminallyinane]

I would probably choose this one. But no bitterness here. Given the choice between med school and a particular relationship... and it IS a hard choice... it's still a clear one. Med school--no doubt about it. Med school will give you returns based on your investment--that's a guarantee. People, on the other hand, are unreliable. It may be close to perfection now, but you can't be sure that things won't change... that one day you'll look back and say--I should have chosen med school at that point!

There is ALWAYS going to be time to find another relationship. But med school is a very limited opportunity.

Word. And actually, that's why I'm not really interested in marriage or having children. I'd rather focus on my career and do something I know is beneficial than waste emotional energy and time on the complexities of an intimate relationship or raising kids. I've had my share of relationships and frankly, I'm not sure they're worth it, unless you really have found the perfect person for you. But realistically, how many people find that person? 50% of marriages end in divorce, so why play with odds that are clearly stacked against you? In this society, monogamy is so devalued and difficult to achieve; having children is stressful and getting more difficult each day, especially for women juggling a career and a family - many of whom don't enjoy raising their children because of all the stress that family life brings with it these days. (I read an article that said that something like half of all moms to young children say that parenting brings more stress than joy.)

Why deal with all that when I know my career is going to be something concrete through which I can make a difference in this world? I think my time is better served helping as many sick people as I can, rather than popping out a few of my own little replicas of myself.

And that's just how I feel.

 

[thirdunity]

I think this only applies to men. That's one of my concerns about male docs - unless they're brick-ugly, they're always going to have lovely women throwing themselves at their feet...

There's always that Pathology resident with the pet rat...

 

[thirdunity]

You know guys... maybe it's just my point of view as a 31 year old in an unravelling marriage... I did everything for this guy, I did EVERYTHING for love up until now, and I'm sick of it.

Now it's time to *become* who I want to be, not worry about who I'm going to be with. I'm not worried anymore about who I'll ever be with. I'm worried about enjoying my *life*, and having a career that's fulfilling to me.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[leechy]

Word. And actually, that's why I'm not really interested in marriage or having children. I'd rather focus on my career and do something I know is beneficial than waste emotional energy and time on the complexities of an intimate relationship or raising kids. I've had my share of relationships and frankly, I'm not sure they're worth it, unless you really have found the perfect person for you. But realistically, how many people find that person? 50% of marriages end in divorce, so why play with odds that are clearly stacked against you? In this society, monogamy is so devalued and difficult to achieve; having children is stressful and getting more difficult each day, especially for women juggling a career and a family - many of whom don't enjoy raising their children because of all the stress that family life brings with it these days. (I read an article that said that something like half of all moms to young children say that parenting brings more stress than joy.)

Why deal with all that when I know my career is going to be something concrete through which I can make a difference in this world? I think my time is better served helping as many sick people as I can, rather than popping out a few of my own little replicas of myself.
And that's just how I feel.

Wow, do we like share a brain or something? Are you my long-detached Siamese twin? Because these are almost exactly my own thoughts on this subject. People think I'm cynical when I express the above viewpoints, but I feel it's just the sad truth. And it's great to hear that someone else also dares to doubt the cult of romance in our society, which places romantic 'relationships' on this fake pedestal of unquestionable desirability.

This is incidental, but studies have found a strong inverse correlation between IQ and likelihood to marry among women, while there's a strong direct correlation between IQ and likelihood to marry among men. It all makes so much sense, given what we've discussed above. Although I'm hardly eager to get hitched, much less to propagate myself, I do sometimes resent how much easier it is for men to "have it all". I have a male acquaintance who says he doesn't want a family as of today, but doesn't think much about it because he knows he can always change his mind in twenty years. Ahhh, I can feel a bolus of resentment slide thickly down my throat as I type...

 

[thirdunity]

This is incidental, but studies have found a strong inverse correlation between IQ and likelihood to marry among women, while there's a strong direct correlation between IQ and likelihood to marry among men.

I figure that's because women with the high IQs know what they're getting into. Marriage and parenthood both benefit men more than they benefit women - I pointed out to my husband that even if I did have a child, I still can't exactly have him bear the child *for* me, and I'm still stuck with nursing. So there, I have to take time off that he doesn't. I'll still be the one stuck with the "double shifts". Forget it!! I just want a fulfilling career, and some good company.

It's no small wonder that smart women are looking before they leap.

It's time we started worrying more about who we're going to BE than who we're going to be WITH. The good ones never pick the desparate ones anyway, but the ones who are happily living their own lives. My mother of all people has pointed this out, but Gloria Steinem married late, at 66.

 

[virilep]

Word. And actually, that's why I'm not really interested in marriage or having children. I'd rather focus on my career and do something I know is beneficial than waste emotional energy and time on the complexities of an intimate relationship or raising kids. I've had my share of relationships and frankly, I'm not sure they're worth it, unless you really have found the perfect person for you. But realistically, how many people find that person? 50% of marriages end in divorce, so why play with odds that are clearly stacked against you? In this society, monogamy is so devalued and difficult to achieve; having children is stressful and getting more difficult each day, especially for women juggling a career and a family - many of whom don't enjoy raising their children because of all the stress that family life brings with it these days. (I read an article that said that something like half of all moms to young children say that parenting brings more stress than joy.)

Why deal with all that when I know my career is going to be something concrete through which I can make a difference in this world? I think my time is better served helping as many sick people as I can, rather than popping out a few of my own little replicas of myself.

And that's just how I feel.

I see where you're coming from but I do have to question it. I mean, everyone has their own beliefs about life and all that. definately, but even learning in bio for example that the sole reason of life is to reproduce and spread your genes (and pay taxes) but I just couldn't imagine not having kids. but in everyone's situation it's different. like watching movies like the notebook, titanic, and green mile..(I know i'm a guy, but i've watched em) you wonder how we're gonna look back on our lives and wish we had done certain things a certain way or not have. so when you retire at the age of 70 (assuming you last more than others because of your drive),what do you have forward to? at the end of life all you have is family and friends. in those final moments, sure we're gonna know we helped many people with their struggles, but you want someone to be there with you toward the end stage of your life and I think that's why it's important for marriage but also having kids.

whew... enough rambling. i feel like this is a couch conversation under a blanket.

ps. i all clicked the single button.... but definately by choice. gotta be selective these days ...

 

[criminallyinane]

I see where you're coming from but I do have to question it. I mean, everyone has their own beliefs about life and all that. definately, but even learning in bio for example that the sole reason of life is to reproduce and spread your genes (and pay taxes) but I just couldn't imagine not having kids. but in everyone's situation it's different. like watching movies like the notebook, titanic, and green mile..(I know i'm a guy, but i've watched em) you wonder how we're gonna look back on our lives and wish we had done certain things a certain way or not have. so when you retire at the age of 70 (assuming you last more than others because of your drive),what do you have forward to? at the end of life all you have is family and friends. in those final moments, sure we're gonna know we helped many people with their struggles, but you want someone to be there with you toward the end stage of your life and I think that's why it's important for marriage but also having kids.

whew... enough rambling. i feel like this is a couch conversation under a blanket.

ps. i all clicked the single button.... but definately by choice. gotta be selective these days ...

I'm not sure that it's a good idea to have children just so that I'm not alone at the end of my life. In fact, in most cases I think people have kids for selfish reasons -- they want little replicas of themselves and they think how fun it will be to take care of someone, but don't realize that lifetime commitment that comes with it. Once you have kids, that's it - you can never take that back. (Unless you're Andrea Yates or Scott Peterson.) You're someone's parent forf life, with all that comes with it. I would rather be on my deathbed knowing I had seen the world, traveled, helped others, etc, rather than thinking, "yay! I made three people." I know that I am in the minority which means that other people will always want to have kids, and that's great, because it means I don't have to. I don't know how the world would or wouldn't be different if I personally put more people in it, but I do know that I'm not so delusional as to think that the world is really losing something huge without them. Maybe if our society made it easier for women to balance everything, I would feel differently. But I don't want to sign up for 20 years of sacrifice when I'm not really sure that I will be a good parent, or that it's consistent with my goals in my career.

 

[medstyle]

Once you're successful, what are you going to do wiht the success? Spending money on yourself gets boring. Living a life without kids is kind of meaningless too. You know, your family is the only group of people on earth who love you. Its nice to have someone care about you in your old age.

I think alot of people who have developed social lives think family is not important. But i disagree. No friend will ever care for you as much as a parent or child, or even a sibling for that matter (of course, some guy will be like my brother sucks, blah blah blah). How can you live knowing that you don't make a significant impact on anyone? Face it, who's going to miss you when you're gone? To leave a mark on this planet, you need to start with your own family.


And successful and well off people SHOULD have children, for the sake of the rest of society. You will be in the unique position to have a child geared for success...is that not a contribution to society? If a welfare mom can pop 7 badass little gangstas, is wrong for you put out a couple empathatic, intelligent people?

Sure, humans are just a waste, blah blah blah. But everyone who is alive finds value in life, as we could die in an instant if we truly wanted. You value your lives, your child will value his.

I dunno, you guys think like career is your baby. Most people don't find fulfillment in work after some time, they just do it to make money. Honestly, i don't think i want kids now or anytime soon, but I hope to have a desire for kids some time in the future, when i am financially and emotionally prepared to have some.

 

[jdovez]

I'm not sure that it's a good idea to have children just so that I'm not alone at the end of my life. In fact, in most cases I think people have kids for selfish reasons -- they want little replicas of themselves and they think how fun it will be to take care of someone, but don't realize that lifetime commitment that comes with it. Once you have kids, that's it - you can never take that back. (Unless you're Andrea Yates or Scott Peterson.) You're someone's parent forf life, with all that comes with it. I would rather be on my deathbed knowing I had seen the world, traveled, helped others, etc, rather than thinking, "yay! I made three people." I know that I am in the minority which means that other people will always want to have kids, and that's great, because it means I don't have to. I don't know how the world would or wouldn't be different if I personally put more people in it, but I do know that I'm not so delusional as to think that the world is really losing something huge without them. Maybe if our society made it easier for women to balance everything, I would feel differently. But I don't want to sign up for 20 years of sacrifice when I'm not really sure that I will be a good parent, or that it's consistent with my goals in my career.

What are your feelings on adoption? You do not need to have a man and all the potential problems that occur with that endeavor, nor do you suffer the effects of birthing/and or nursing (depending on age of the child). Furthermore, you are not bringing in another child to the world, but are altruistically taking a child that has been brought into the world, but is in the difficult position of being outcast (potentially). You would certainly be fulfilling the same drive that pushes one with truly unselfish motivation into medicine, but doing it on an even more personal level while not being a slave to "replicating" oneself.

 

[criminallyinane]

What are your feelings on adoption? You do not need to have a man and all the potential problems that occur with that endeavor, nor do you suffer the effects of birthing/and or nursing (depending on age of the child). Furthermore, you are not bringing in another child to the world, but are altruistically taking a child that has been brought into the world, but is in the difficult position of being outcast (potentially). You would certainly be fulfilling the same drive that pushes one with truly unselfish motivation into medicine, but doing it on an even more personal level while not being a slave to "replicating" oneself.

I would love to adopt, if I ever decided that I was ready to be a mother and if I was in a good marriage. It's probably the only way I would want to have kids. My ex and I had talked a lot about adoption, but neither of us were sure we wanted kids at all, and then we broke up, so that ended that But regardless, yes, I would probably adopt.

One of my friends and I were recently talking about my desire NOT to have children, and she said, "but if you got pregnant by accident, would you be devastated?" And I said, "no, of course not, if I was married and financially stable." I am sure that if I accidentally had a kid, I would be pretty psyched once the baby was born and I would love being a mother and think, "ahhh, what would my life have been if I hadn't had this little child?" But at the same time, if I don't have the kids, then I don't know what I am missing, and I won't have that feeling of, "YES! having a replica of myself was the best thing EVER!" because I'll be fulfilled in other ways. It's just about what you want to fill your life with. If it ended up being a kid, that would be fine, that would be great - but I think my life can be great in other ways and those are the ones I am interested in pursuing at this time.

to medstyle - It seems like you want to tell people what to do and what to think, and I don't like engaging in discussions with people like that, so I'm not going to respond to the rest of your post.

 

[medstyle]

In japan, as you probably know, lots of people don't want children anymore and their population is falling. But, as I live with and hang out primarily with japanese people for the better part of a year now, as well as date a nihonjin chick, i can offer some insight about that.

I think modern japanese youth/ young adult culture has the same values that many people here have. There is no god in japan anymore. Girls have sex whenever they want, from 13 or whatever. Everyone has a very private life...for instance you don't ask a person direct questions, especially if there could be a potentially negative answer. Even if you're a parent. This leads to things like enjo kosei, which is basically teens dating much older men for high fashion gifts, money, dinner in exchange for company and sex. But in any case, this leads to a highly independant society, where people don't rely on others. However, this leads to isolation and selfishness too.

Most japanese girls don't take birth control or use contraception. When they get pregnant, they just have an abortion. In relationships guys use condoms, but BC is not common over there. Women have jobs and live with their parents, using their money solely to buy clothes, makeup, and eat out.

The guys there have no need to marry, because they can get some whenever they want. Many girls want to marry, but do not because they can't find a guy who will love them and want to marry them. Their own feelings are pretty much dependant on the guy.

Basically, japanese youth culture is about as free from relgion, conservatism, and morality as a culture can be. Through that, you have legions of selfish using guys, lonely women, abortion, materialism, and isolation.

Now, i have no problem with this. I actually like it. My girlfriend got pregnant, and we were like lets just get this over with. No one cares. She has a past, i have a past, we don't ask questions and we don't care. But what i am saying is, i don't think you guys know exactly what you're gonna miss. Japanees girls want to get married, they want someone to love them. ANYONE. They are not weak women...you'd be surprised how independant they are. However, to replace not having a guy or whatever, they find comfort in 100,000 yen purses, 40000 yen skirts, and 10000 yen skin cream.

I dunno, that seems to be ill suited to many of you as well. People all need something to do. Unless you become mother theresea and think you're helping all mankind by devoting yourself to a cause, ultimately you wind up using most of your time, energy and money contributing to yourself.

Which is fine, if thats what you want. But if avoiding selfishness is your desire, children would be the way to go. If you want to be more selfishess, through using your time for you own pursuits, spending your own money, etc. then don't have kids.

I actually don't want kids myself, but i hope one day i will. I would hate to have the same priorities i have now in 20 years.

 

[criminallyinane]

Wow medstyle, you sure know how to tell women what to do without apparently thinking that you or other men have to follow the same advice. Like I said before, I can't argue with someone like you.

 

[leechy]

I find it a smidgeon telling that the people who are flabbergasted about being hesitant to have children are male. I don't mean to sound testy, but it is sometimes hard for males to understand how much more difficult the decision is for women. Inevitably, the woman is going to be the primary caretaker for the first few years of the child's life, even if the father is very helpful. That's just the biological reality. Also, I know guilt would weigh heavily on me as I tried to balance raising children with my career. I know that working mothers can be great mothers, but I'm wary of putting myself in a position where I might be fighting feelings of guilt constantly. Motherhood exerts a tremendous hold over your psyche and your life (and that's the way it should be, of course). I'm hesitant to carry that psychological burden.

As for reproducing being the purpose of life: biologically, yes, we're here to multiply our genes as much as possible, but by some chance development in evolutionary history, we humans have developed to a point where we're consciously able to choose our own purpose of life and overthrow the darwinian one. Most people already defy the dictates of biology when they choose to have 2 kids instead of 12. What I'm saying is that the biologically dictated "purpose" of life has nothing to do with our own. As for the 'obligation' of intelligent women to reproduce - yes, it's true that the more educated / intelligent a woman is, the less likely she is to reproduce. But I'm not going to be around in 100 years, so I don't really care if there's a deterioration in the human gene pool.

I don't at all discount the joy that having a spouse and children can bring, but I just don't think it's a requirement to be happy. It may be a requirement for most people, but not for everyone.

 

[leechy]

Wow medstyle, you sure know how to tell women what to do without apparently thinking that you or other men have to follow the same advice. Like I said before, I can't argue with someone like you.

Yeah, I'm a little surprised at the implied equivalence he draws between not wanting children and selfishness/nihilism/materialism. Being childless doesn't mean you find meaning in Prada bags, anymore than being pet-less does.

 

[medstyle]

The only reasons you women mention u don't want children are:

-have a career
-make a name for yourself
-don't trouble yourself with little brats all day
-don't want to put more children into an overcrowded world

In addition, i make these inferences:

-You don't want to rely or be subservient to a man
-you rather spend your time having fun than raising kids
-why settle with a mate that isn't up to your standards

All i am saying is that those are decisions where your immediate gratifications will result in loneliness and isolation later on in life. Sure, it would be fun for me to bang waitresses until i am 45 or so, but after that, who's going to be there in my twilight years? Where does all my experience go? Some woman who only likes me for my money? Thats not intimacy.

Should i give my money, my home, my experiences to charity? Who retains my legacy? Who am i working for? Is it god? Is it the starving in africa? Is it prada? It is for me?

What do you get from not having kids? Freedom, money, a career. That is more important to you than family. Thats fine, but there is a tradeoff. I guess the disingrated family culture of this country has ruined the family unit.

It makes sense to americans: Why would you get married, only to get divorced? To manage a career and children? When you need sex, you will get it. When you need anything else, you will buy it. It's so simple, right?

That's all i am saying, you're trading freedom, money, and career for love. I don't know if that is selfish or not, but thats what you are doing. Honestly, from somone who has the first two things and hopefully the third in a few years, thats not enough to make someone happy. Traveling the world ten times over is no fun if you don't have the people you love with you.

There's no joy in a life without sharing. The question is, who is worth your sharing? Is it your friends, your companion, or your family?

I am not judging you. I am telling you that don't put up walls when you're so young. If a life without children happens, thats ok too. But don't fight the notion of having a family so strongly. It doesn't make you strong...it makes look weak. You look as the reason you find nothing in love is because you haven't experienced it. Love is an important part of life, it can be a great thing, especially for people like you, who will have the means to provie a good life to those you will love.

 

[UTCobra]

so anyone looking, I"m willing to give you 5 minutes a week with my MSI schedule... ha ha..

Thats cool, I only need 2.

 

[wends]

i agree with med style.....whats the point of having it all, career, money, whatever else you want, without someone to share your world with? the japanese trend is quite interesting.......with all the so called freedom the girls have, they're still longing to be loved. i cant be alone the rest of my life, no husband, no children......that would really suck. i dotn think a great career will substitute a family.

 

[criminallyinane]

The only reasons you women mention u don't want children are:

-have a career
-make a name for yourself
-don't trouble yourself with little brats all day
-don't want to put more children into an overcrowded world

And what reasons have you given? You don't have to give a reason because you're a boy? (I hesitate to use the term man.) "Us women" don't have to justify anything based on our gender. Your post reeks of sexism. Secondly, nobody said anything about 'brats' or disliking children. You made those up all on your own.

In addition, i make these inferences:

-You don't want to rely or be subservient to a man
-you rather spend your time having fun than raising kids
-why settle with a mate that isn't up to your standards

Having children doesn't require being subservient to a man or relying on a man. No woman has to rely on a man or be subservient. To think that is necessary for anything in life is to be a sexist. To think that women who refuse to be subservient are aberrant is sexist.

All i am saying is that those are decisions where your immediate gratifications will result in loneliness and isolation later on in life. Sure, it would be fun for me to bang waitresses until i am 45 or so, but after that, who's going to be there in my twilight years? Where does all my experience go? Some woman who only likes me for my money? Thats not intimacy.

Really? Well, you don't want kids, you said. Why can you make that decision, but when a woman does, you preach to her about how "lonely" she will be? Why do you insist that a woman who doesn't want children is more aberrant and abnormal and messed up than a man who doesn't want children? Is it because you're sexist? That seems to be a common theme here...

Should i give my money, my home, my experiences to charity? Who retains my legacy? Who am i working for? Is it god? Is it the starving in africa? Is it prada? It is for me?

It would leave a more indelible and far-flung mark on the world to give everything to charity, than to give everything to little medstyles. (I shudder to think.)

What do you get from not having kids? Freedom, money, a career. That is more important to you than family. Thats fine, but there is a tradeoff. I guess the disingrated family culture of this country has ruined the family unit.

It makes sense to americans: Why would you get married, only to get divorced? To manage a career and children? When you need sex, you will get it. When you need anything else, you will buy it. It's so simple, right?

Why do you care what I do? Why does it bother you if I don't want marriage or kids? I would dare to say that I have more morality and wits about me than more than half the child-producing population of America. So why don't you go work on them?

That's all i am saying, you're trading freedom, money, and career for love. I don't know if that is selfish or not, but thats what you are doing.

Love does not only come with marriage and kids. And it's not selfish to devote your life to service through medicine.

Honestly, from somone who has the first two things and hopefully the third in a few years, thats not enough to make someone happy. Traveling the world ten times over is no fun if you don't have the people you love with you.

Again, love is not exclusive to marriage. And I don't think anyone on this thread needs advice from you about love. To assume that you know more about that than us, just because we don't want kids, is stupid and sexist. What, you think any woman who doesn't want kids must be so undesirable, or man-hating? That's stupid.

There's no joy in a life without sharing. The question is, who is worth your sharing? Is it your friends, your companion, or your family?

I have a family. I have friends. I have had boyfriends. What's your problem?

I am not judging you. I am telling you that don't put up walls when you're so young.

::snort:: Thanks for the advice... and how old are you? Nobody has put up any walls just because they might not want children. It doesn't mean that people don't want companionship or love. And a woman can be fulfilled in other ways than motherhood. You obviously have a very limited understanding of life and womanhood if you feel otherwise.

If a life without children happens, thats ok too. But don't fight the notion of having a family so strongly. It doesn't make you strong...it makes look weak.

You're right. I'm so stupid! It takes much more strength to mindlessly follow the societal standard of getting married and having kids, than to follow your own path of having a demanding and intellectually stimulating career without creating people of your own.

You look as the reason you find nothing in love is because you haven't experienced it.

Boy, that's an obnoxious, self-righteous, misogynistic statement right there. A woman who doesn't want kids must have never been in love. You're a real piece of work. Don't make assumptions about other peoples' love lives. Not that it's any of your business, but I have been in excellent, long-term intimate relationships, so I don't need your education on what love is or how my life will change once I experience it. I presume you think that once a woman looks deeply into a man's eyes and is pulled closely into his pectorals, a transformation takes place deep within her womb, and she suddenly just *knows* that she has to have this man's babies and live happily ever after with her brood of kidlets. Forget about her life and goals, she's having his baby! Woo!

Well, you're wrong.

Love is an important part of life, it can be a great thing, especially for people like you, who will have the means to provie a good life to those you will love.

You're something, medstyle. And I don't mean that in a good way. You know NOTHING about "people like me." So shut it.

 

[thirdunity]

i agree with med style.....whats the point of having it all, career, money, whatever else you want, without someone to share your world with? the japanese trend is quite interesting.......with all the so called freedom the girls have, they're still longing to be loved. i cant be alone the rest of my life, no husband, no children......that would really suck. i dotn think a great career will substitute a family.

Yeah, but the *right* person will be with us no matter what career we have.

 

[criminallyinane]

i agree with med style.....whats the point of having it all, career, money, whatever else you want, without someone to share your world with? the japanese trend is quite interesting.......with all the so called freedom the girls have, they're still longing to be loved. i cant be alone the rest of my life, no husband, no children......that would really suck. i dotn think a great career will substitute a family.

I find it telling that in the anecdote about Japanese culture, the point was made that women are so desperate for a relationship and so sad. Why is it that we are conditioned to think that a woman can only be fulfilled through marriage and motherhood? Where do the men fall in this picture? Is the point that a man doesn't need a relationship, but as a woman, if you don't have one you will be a sad sack for the rest of your life? Why do we allow men to tell us that we need a relationship to be happy? This is one more symptom of society's inherent sexism.

 

[medstyle]

And what reasons have you given? You don't have to give a reason because you're a boy? (I hesitate to use the term man.) "Us women" don't have to justify anything based on our gender. Your post reeks of sexism. Secondly, nobody said anything about 'brats' or disliking children. You made those up all on your own.



Having children doesn't require being subservient to a man or relying on a man. No woman has to rely on a man or be subservient. To think that is necessary for anything in life is to be a sexist. To think that women who refuse to be subservient are aberrant is sexist.



Really? Well, you don't want kids, you said. Why can you make that decision, but when a woman does, you preach to her about how "lonely" she will be? Why do you insist that a woman who doesn't want children is more aberrant and abnormal and messed up than a man who doesn't want children? Is it because you're sexist? That seems to be a common theme here...



It would leave a more indelible and far-flung mark on the world to give everything to charity, than to give everything to little medstyles. (I shudder to think.)



Why do you care what I do? Why does it bother you if I don't want marriage or kids? I would dare to say that I have more morality and wits about me than more than half the child-producing population of America. So why don't you go work on them?



Love does not only come with marriage and kids. And it's not selfish to devote your life to service through medicine.



Again, love is not exclusive to marriage. And I don't think anyone on this thread needs advice from you about love. To assume that you know more about that than us, just because we don't want kids, is stupid and sexist. What, you think any woman who doesn't want kids must be so undesirable, or man-hating? That's stupid.

I have a family. I have friends. I have had boyfriends. What's your problem?


::snort:: Thanks for the advice... and how old are you? Nobody has put up any walls just because they might not want children. It doesn't mean that people don't want companionship or love. And a woman can be fulfilled in other ways than motherhood. You obviously have a very limited understanding of life and womanhood if you feel otherwise.



You're right. I'm so stupid! It takes much more strength to mindlessly follow the societal standard of getting married and having kids, than to follow your own path of having a demanding and intellectually stimulating career without creating people of your own.



Boy, that's an obnoxious, self-righteous, misogynistic statement right there. A woman who doesn't want kids must have never been in love. You're a real piece of work. Don't make assumptions about other peoples' love lives. Not that it's any of your business, but I have been in excellent, long-term intimate relationships, so I don't need your education on what love is or how my life will change once I experience it. I presume you think that once a woman looks deeply into a man's eyes and is pulled closely into his pectorals, a transformation takes place deep within her womb, and she suddenly just *knows* that she has to have this man's babies and live happily ever after with her brood of kidlets. Forget about her life and goals, she's having his baby! Woo!

Well, you're wrong.



You're something, medstyle. And I don't mean that in a good way. You know NOTHING about "people like me." So shut it.

I want to want to have children. I am 22, i don't want kids now. Definately later, not now. I think a man should want to have children too. Thats why i posted all those "rhetorical" questions. Those are questions i ask myself.

Its not "easy" to follow society and have kids. Its easier to defy society and not have children. I don't let society run my life, so i doubt it runs yours either. Besides, society says its ok these days for an obese 16 year old white girl to have 2 children with a 28 year old black man with 4 different mothers and no job. So cut the BS. I am not racist or sexist or anything, but thats reality. I was tutoring her for her GED. It was disgusting and i shouldn't have to cry like that.

Why should i give my family's and the money i earned all to charity? So most of the money can be wasted providing jobs to unmotivated 20 something jerks? So some irresponsible couple in Ghana with 10 kids get to watch their children grow up and have another 100 kids? Thats not what my money is for. My money is for my family, so they become contributors, and not enablers.

I am not telling YOU to have kids. I am just telling you that you will be missing something if you decide against having a family because you rather have a career. I am not misogynist, i am the most far flung liberal on this freaking board. I am against war, for women's rights to choose anything, and for helping poor, even at the slight expense of the rich.

Don't tell you want to become a doctor to serve others. You want to become a doctor because you want to be someone. If you want to serve, you could have been a nurse. Or you can become a doctor, move to africa, and spend your days there helping your fellow man. No, you'd rather go to the best med school you get into, then the residency of your choosing, and go on and build a reputation as a compassionate and competent physician. It HAS SELFISH parts to it. All people who have any taste for prestige have something selfish within.

Look, i know you're smart and capable. Thats why you'd be a good mother. I am saying YOU are more qualified than all those baby poppers out there.

I don't think you know real love. Any "great" relationship that is over couldn't have been so great. I am talking about the love from parents. My parents love me alot, and it helps me tremendously. Maybe if you haven't experienced that love, you don't think you need it.

So dont have a family, but when your parents are gone, and your friends have parted and new ones emerge, as is in the case of all friends, who are you left with?

You're smart and capable and independant. Don't you think you'd like some people who are just like that loving you forever? Don't you think the world could use people like that too?

 

[wends]

i think both men as well as women want to be loved and have a family...i was just using myself as an example..........im just saying that i can see medstyle's point that 40-50 years down the road, it can be lonely without kids and partner beside you....volunteering in hospitals where the old people have no one to visit them is just plain sad.

 

[criminallyinane]

How dare you say my parents don't love me. That is disgusting and rude. I am putting you on my ignore list.

 

[UDbiochem]

And successful and well off people SHOULD have children, for the sake of the rest of society. You will be in the unique position to have a child geared for success...is that not a contribution to society? If a welfare mom can pop 7 badass little gangstas, is wrong for you put out a couple empathatic, intelligent people?

Ok, this sounded really elitist and possibly racist to me. Just because you're born from a welfare mom doesn't mean you won't mean much to society.

Perhaps you didn't mean this...

 

[criminallyinane]

Ok, this sounded really elitist and possibly racist to me. Just because you're born from a welfare mom doesn't mean you won't mean much to society.

Perhaps you didn't mean this...

He apparently has problems with obese people and interracial couples procreating, so it doesn seem he is elitist (possibly racist.)

 

[Mr. Seeds]

I figure that's because women with the high IQs know what they're getting into. Marriage and parenthood both benefit men more than they benefit women - I pointed out to my husband that even if I did have a child, I still can't exactly have him bear the child *for* me, and I'm still stuck with nursing. So there, I have to take time off that he doesn't. I'll still be the one stuck with the "double shifts". Forget it!! I just want a fulfilling career, and some good company.

It's no small wonder that smart women are looking before they leap.

It's time we started worrying more about who we're going to BE than who we're going to be WITH. The good ones never pick the desparate ones anyway, but the ones who are happily living their own lives. My mother of all people has pointed this out, but Gloria Steinem married late, at 66.

That's only because she spent the prior 65 years bitterly hating men.

 

[Mr. Seeds]

I find it a smidgeon telling that the people who are flabbergasted about being hesitant to have children are male. I don't mean to sound testy, but it is sometimes hard for males to understand how much more difficult the decision is for women. Inevitably, the woman is going to be the primary caretaker for the first few years of the child's life, even if the father is very helpful. That's just the biological reality. Also, I know guilt would weigh heavily on me as I tried to balance raising children with my career. I know that working mothers can be great mothers, but I'm wary of putting myself in a position where I might be fighting feelings of guilt constantly. Motherhood exerts a tremendous hold over your psyche and your life (and that's the way it should be, of course). I'm hesitant to carry that psychological burden.

As for reproducing being the purpose of life: biologically, yes, we're here to multiply our genes as much as possible, but by some chance development in evolutionary history, we humans have developed to a point where we're consciously able to choose our own purpose of life and overthrow the darwinian one. Most people already defy the dictates of biology when they choose to have 2 kids instead of 12. What I'm saying is that the biologically dictated "purpose" of life has nothing to do with our own. As for the 'obligation' of intelligent women to reproduce - yes, it's true that the more educated / intelligent a woman is, the less likely she is to reproduce. But I'm not going to be around in 100 years, so I don't really care if there's a deterioration in the human gene pool.

I don't at all discount the joy that having a spouse and children can bring, but I just don't think it's a requirement to be happy. It may be a requirement for most people, but not for everyone.

That's a good point. Frankly I am flabbergasted that anyone wants children, ever. But I do see what you're saying about men/women's perspectives on wanting children...

 

[medstyle]

You're right, i have a problem with people who are irresponsible having children. But i am for people who are responsible and intelligent to have kids.

Like it or not, there things that are common to poor black culture, and different problems that plague poor white culture. Am I racist for knowing this? Or am i racist for saying it?

A person who is born on welfare has a much higher incidence of being a teenage parent, not finishing schools, and another contributing to crime. Do all do it? No. Do many? Of course. Do I think the bad guys are worthless? absolutely. Not every life is worth having.

How many asian families have 8 kids to a single mother wiht no job? My father has employees that deal with clients like that. You should hear them talk. It makes you wonder what the fuss about equal rights is all about anyway. What good are these people? is taking birth control or getting an abortion such a bad alternative to not creating these future drug dealers, teen parents, and car jackers?

Have you ever even talked to welfare people? I have, and it sickens me, that poverty can make someone so hurt and angry and entitled. Don't judge me till you open you bloody eyes. When i see asian kids in a perpetual welfare state, i'll retract my position. But let,s face it, there's poor white trash, there's niggaz (in the chris rock sense, of all colors), and there's the rest of society.

Anyway, I think everyone here is good and contributing members to society. If we don't have children, then the world will be lost to little "gansta's". This is not Haiti: This is United States of America. Its a great country, I think our greatest should maintain a legacy.

For those that choose to maintain childless, I am just saying you should know that kids and family offers more than creating pint sized consumers. Don't ever think that your friends will do anything more for you than be there when the sun is shining bright.

ok, i am done for this week guys, i know you'll flame this, but i am out.

 

[medstyle]

He apparently has problems with obese people and interracial couples procreating, so it doesn seem he is elitist (possibly racist.)

you fool. you are nothing but reactionist. You have no ability to synthesize information. Did you think that relationshpi was healthy?

I have a problem with a 16 year old girl woh can't take care of herself having more than one child with a promiscuous man that is 28 or so and has 4 baby "mommas".

I have a problem that she is obese from sitting at home all day watching tv and eating slop instead of being active.

I have a problem that in poor black culture it is completely acceptable to be a single mother with several baby daddies or an absent, multi momma father.

I have a problem that in poor white trash culture a man that screws you and gives you money for groceries is a "sugar daddy". That's what she called some guy, in any case.

I have a problem with trying to waste my time to help people who can't be helped and don't want to be helped, yet require the support of society to enable them to lead their parasitic and worthless lives.

Could her son become president? Certainly. will he? No way. he will become another burden to society.

I hate when the pride of young youth lead them to shoot each other, when they fight over trash, be it drugs or reputation.

I guess you'd actually have to experience life to form a real opinion about it.

 

[stinkycheese]

Wow, medstyle is sexist AND racist! Great combo! Keep up the "niggaz"-bashing, chief.

 

[v-tach]

Bummer about being a woman doc is that you are going to scare the heck out of half of the eligible male population with your smarts and your drive. Lame but true. You might want to consider those male doc's out there who can actually understand your med commitments.

It is probably true that a lot of men wouldn't be interested in a female doctor for a relationship. Personally, I'm not bothered by that, because I am quite content being single (and no, I'm not a man-hater or anything like that; I have a lot of good friends who are men, and I'm not a lesbian either). I have never been in a relationship and have never felt I was missing out on anything by not having a boyfriend--I know I'm unusual; my friends always joke that I must have been born without hormones or something! I actually consider that a blessing, with the fact that I really want to be a doctor and serve others that way (if I manage to get into a med school...)--I know I'll be really busy with my patients and honestly, I would feel guilty about not being around much if I were married and had kids, or about not being as available to my patients as I could be. I really don't feel that I will be lonely--I will make a real effort to have close friendships with other people, and another thing that really helps me is to be actively involved in my church--the right church should be like one big family. Now, that said, I know I'm kind of the exception to the general norm and most people really do want to get married and have a family, and that is a wonderful thing and should be encouraged. However, we aren't all the same (and it's a good thing too)!

 

[medstyle]

Wow, medstyle is sexist AND racist! Great combo! Keep up the "niggaz"-bashing, chief.

wow, leave it to you to miss the whole point.

i wonder what its like looking through the world with only a child's ability to analyze things. must make life incredibly simple, right and wrong, etc.

People like you should always be in low positions, because you're nothing more reactionary. Other than addressing, or even acknowledging, the problems, you kill messenger.

Good job! I must be racist! Only a racist could find problems in any culture! Only a sexist wants to get married and support his children! Especially a sexist like me, who would like to marry a doctor as well!

 

[v-tach]

The only reasons you women mention u don't want children are:

-have a career
-make a name for yourself
-don't trouble yourself with little brats all day
-don't want to put more children into an overcrowded world

In addition, i make these inferences:

-You don't want to rely or be subservient to a man
-you rather spend your time having fun than raising kids
-why settle with a mate that isn't up to your standards

All i am saying is that those are decisions where your immediate gratifications will result in loneliness and isolation later on in life. Sure, it would be fun for me to bang waitresses until i am 45 or so, but after that, who's going to be there in my twilight years? Where does all my experience go? Some woman who only likes me for my money? Thats not intimacy.

Should i give my money, my home, my experiences to charity? Who retains my legacy? Who am i working for? Is it god? Is it the starving in africa? Is it prada? It is for me?

What do you get from not having kids? Freedom, money, a career. That is more important to you than family. Thats fine, but there is a tradeoff. I guess the disingrated family culture of this country has ruined the family unit.

It makes sense to americans: Why would you get married, only to get divorced? To manage a career and children? When you need sex, you will get it. When you need anything else, you will buy it. It's so simple, right?

That's all i am saying, you're trading freedom, money, and career for love. I don't know if that is selfish or not, but thats what you are doing. Honestly, from somone who has the first two things and hopefully the third in a few years, thats not enough to make someone happy. Traveling the world ten times over is no fun if you don't have the people you love with you.

There's no joy in a life without sharing. The question is, who is worth your sharing? Is it your friends, your companion, or your family?

I am not judging you. I am telling you that don't put up walls when you're so young. If a life without children happens, thats ok too. But don't fight the notion of having a family so strongly. It doesn't make you strong...it makes look weak. You look as the reason you find nothing in love is because you haven't experienced it. Love is an important part of life, it can be a great thing, especially for people like you, who will have the means to provie a good life to those you will love.

I agree that a lot of joy comes from sharing. And that there are a lot of selfish reasons for people to not want a family. However, what bothers me is the fact that you automatically make assumptions about people, that may not be accurate. Also, you seem to think that getting married and having kids (which is a wonderful thing if you're with the right person, don't get me wrong) is the ONLY way to have a worthwhile life. There are other ways to make an impact on people's lives too. And as for your cynical view of friends, it sounds like you've had some bad experiences with people who weren't really true friends--that doesn't mean all friendships are like that. What about the people who may want a family, but the right person for them hasn't come along yet? Do you think they should mope around thinking their life is meaningless? Think about how unfair your attitude is to those people, as well as those of us who are content in our singleness but are sharing and serving others in different ways. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but I just had to disagree with some of your posts.

 

[v-tach]

Because to me it would be like dipping your pen in the company ink. Having been part of the workforce for a number of years I've developed that cliche attitude of not getting your meat where you get your bread.

Otherwise known as "Don't poop where you eat!"

 

[exigente chica]

Is it just me or does it seem like finding good people to settle with are everywhere? Seriously, I am dating a girl now, but I mean, I meet her friends and they are hot and cool. I go out and I meet chicks and the same thing.

I would stay with someone if there were no options out there, but I mean, there are so many sexy and interesting people out there...why toture yourself? I am for long distance relationsihps when the time apart is relatively small and there is a foreseeable future, but I dunno about taking on 4 years of seperation for a maybe. Or hell, even a sure thing.

I don't agree entirely with your post. There may be attractive or "hot" people everywhere but that does not mean that they are compatible with you. You seem to be very hung up on external features of a person that the internal.

 

[v-tach]

I don't agree entirely with your post. There may be attractive or "hot" people everywhere but that does not mean that they are compatible with you. You seem to be very hung up on external features of a person that the internal.

Yeah, attractiveness is nice but it only goes so far.

 

[wire]

.