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Relationship with mentor
- Thread starter akimhaneul
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Get out of that lab. Find another lab IF you like research.
When multiple people are saying the same thing to you, the problem is not with them, it's you.
You don't need a publication nor a PI LOR to get into med school. All Adcoms want is to know that you have learned something about the scientific process.
It OK if your PI say Akim doesn't like research!" Med schools don't want students to do research like grad students, they want to train doctors. But don't use this PI for a LOR, period, because you can't guarantee that he'll say nice things about you. If a LOR writer casts doubt on your work ethic, you're dead meat.
So, to reiterate, this mess will have little effect on your med school aspirations. Just find a different supervisor to write you a LOR.
When multiple people are saying the same thing to you, the problem is not with them, it's you.
You don't need a publication nor a PI LOR to get into med school. All Adcoms want is to know that you have learned something about the scientific process.
It OK if your PI say Akim doesn't like research!" Med schools don't want students to do research like grad students, they want to train doctors. But don't use this PI for a LOR, period, because you can't guarantee that he'll say nice things about you. If a LOR writer casts doubt on your work ethic, you're dead meat.
So, to reiterate, this mess will have little effect on your med school aspirations. Just find a different supervisor to write you a LOR.
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Bump
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You need to look elsewhere and not use a LOR from this lab. Sorry but multiple negative opinions on you is a red flag
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A few questions to ask yourself: Do you like research? Do you like the research you are doing in this lab? Are you motivated to do your job? What are some ways you demonstrate your motivation/interest in your work?
You should probably try to figure out why several people in your lab get the impression that you're not motivated or interested. Often when you're doing a job that you don't really like, it shows. Whether you want it to or not.
Definitely don't ask for a LOR from anyone in this lab. It sounds like you may need a more recent LOR, if all of the ones you have so far are from more than a year ago. If you're going to stick with this job for the time being (and I'm not necessarily saying that you should), you should probably start doing some volunteering or shadowing so you can work on getting a good, recent LOR.
You should probably try to figure out why several people in your lab get the impression that you're not motivated or interested. Often when you're doing a job that you don't really like, it shows. Whether you want it to or not.
Definitely don't ask for a LOR from anyone in this lab. It sounds like you may need a more recent LOR, if all of the ones you have so far are from more than a year ago. If you're going to stick with this job for the time being (and I'm not necessarily saying that you should), you should probably start doing some volunteering or shadowing so you can work on getting a good, recent LOR.
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Ok thanks. So I was thinking about looking for another lab at NIH to work in if I do not get in to any md schools during this cycle. But I am afraid of other PIs at NIH contacting my PI to learn more about me and then him saying negative things about me. Is there anything I can do from now on to deal with this issue?
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Have you asked what you can do to improve? Have you tried to reverse their opinion of you?
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Get out of this lab.
If you like research and would like to continue, then apply for other positions and emphasize that you're looking for a supportive, collaborative environment. If you get invited to interview for a new position just state that your current environment is hostile and you haven't disclosed yet that you're applying for other positions, hence the lack of current references. Use your previous PI as a reference if he's willing and will be positive.
Is there anyone in your current lab that you get along with? When I applied for a new position I used two co-workers and a previous PI and that was fine. I was asked about it once and just said that my current PI wasn't aware I was looking elsewhere yet and I preferred to not disclose it until I had something lined up.
FYI references are different from LORs. Don't use this PI for a LOR, but as a reference he should be fine. Employers are very limited in what they can ask references, so it's mostly just confirming how long you've worked there and if you were ever chronically tardy. Personal opinions don't belong in reference checks.
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Well other PIs who may be interested in me can still contact my current PI if they want more info since NIH has a employee directory on their website....just type in my name and all the contact info and PI name comes up
But I guess I can try this.
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One of them told me months ago to increase my workload, maybe design new experiments, and just be more involved with the project in general. She said that I do not come across as enthusiastic. I guess I will talk with other 2 postdocs too.
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I disagree with this. As someone who has been in the workforce for a while, I would never say anything negative about a previous employer in an interview.
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I've been in the workforce for a while too. I would never complain about the actual employer (the PI), but some environments just aren't supportive and that's pretty common knowledge. It shouldn't be personal. A poor work environment can be due to budget issues, being overworked, competitive co-workers, etc. If it's stated then it obviously should be with tact, but there is nothing wrong with explaining that you're currently seeking an environment that's more supportive than your current one.
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Sounds like you have some motivation issues.
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I would nicely, politely ask them for constructive feedback and figure out why they are all saying this about you. Is it something you do that you are not aware of? Is it your demeanor that is giving people a sense that you don't like research even though you do? Ask with an open mind and don't be defensive. Really think about whether or not what they say have merit.
Then leave the lab. You need to find a PI and environment where people don't have such negative opinions of you. However, I don't recommend leaving immediately. Gather feedback from them and figure out what it is you should work on first. That way, you can be more aware when you transfer into a new lab and make the most out of that new lab. Otherwise, you might just end up in a similar situation even if you transfer.
Good luck!
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Did you do those things? Asking for feedback early and often is imperative, but it means nothing if you don't incorporate that feedback into what you do. Are you simply doing what you're told or are you actually acting like a full time postbac researcher? It sounds like you're not working to your full potential.
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using the word "hostile" is a terrible thing to say... ever ... unless that is followed up with an EEOC complaint and a letter from a lawyer
the appropriate way to frame it is "I liked what I was doing but it was a bad fit for me" - not many people are going to press that issue further - they really don't want to know; most normal people don't want to know the morbid details of a job
and if pressed about why, figure out an appropriate way to say whatever it is... for instance, all your co-lab partners come in a 5:30 and you are a 7:30 kind of person - okay, that's not a big deal
also, it does sound like you have motivation issues ... and motivation can be very hard, if not downright impossible, to find in a crappy work environment... not always is group think > truth
many environments are abusive because of one bad apple who everyone else is afraid of pissing off
the appropriate way to frame it is "I liked what I was doing but it was a bad fit for me" - not many people are going to press that issue further - they really don't want to know; most normal people don't want to know the morbid details of a job
and if pressed about why, figure out an appropriate way to say whatever it is... for instance, all your co-lab partners come in a 5:30 and you are a 7:30 kind of person - okay, that's not a big deal
also, it does sound like you have motivation issues ... and motivation can be very hard, if not downright impossible, to find in a crappy work environment... not always is group think > truth
many environments are abusive because of one bad apple who everyone else is afraid of pissing off
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I agree. Hostile is a very strong word and was a bad word choice on my part. I actually did have a hostile work environment that HR was consistently having to mediate, but the appropriate framing would be to avoid that word and state that it's not a good fit and be able to explain objectively why.
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Hi, OP. I wont reiterate everyone else's comments about getting out of that lab. I would, however, suggest having a Plan B outside of your current Center, your current campus (I assume you're in Bethesda, so Frederick would be a viable satellite for you), or NIH in general. Mainly for the reason you just mentioned above - prospective PIs will contact your current PI. There's even a chance people working in the prospective labs know your current PI or postdocs. Its a tighter-knit group than you'd think over there and lazy students/postbacs are the bane of every NIH PI's existence.
It would behoove you, in my opinion, to look elsewhere. There are plenty of opportunities close-by.
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tbh, based on the title of the thread alone, I thought you meant you're dating your mentor 👍
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Sounds like you don't enjoy interacting with your superiors and peers at this place, so why not look elsewhere for an environment that actually motivates you?
