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Remember "I Failed Organic Chemistry" - I was Wrong...

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by MedicalSonata, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. MedicalSonata

    MedicalSonata Friendly Pre-Med, PM me!
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    Crap..

    A lot of you guys know I kept posting about failing Organic Chemistry? Well - I didn't. I made a C-...which now I think makes me even more angry than if I had just failed it..

    Isn't it true you have to make at least a C in all pre-reqs? Does a C- count!? Do I really have to retake the entire class because I was about 1 pt away from a C?

    Also - this was reeaaly bad semester. I ended up with a 2.65 GPA. I made B+ in Microbiology and a B in it's lab...but I made a B- in a 6 credit, non-pre-req course...which coupled with my C- in Organic Chemistry caused the GPA.

    I'm taking classes that are more up my alley next semester - 16 credits, and I plan to make no less than a B+ in any of them (mostly A's I'm hoping - I was a transfer to my college and obviously wasn't ready for the rigors of a top school from a CC. Now that I know how to study, I think I can do much better)

    Is it hopeless?
     
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  3. aliDO

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    you're going to have to retake because you do need a C. But, I think a C- is definitely better than failing! If you are having a hard time don't overload your schedule, it will only hurt you. Retake Orgo when you have a chance and get an A (it is general thought they a retake needs to be two letter grades higher to show significant improvement).
     
  4. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me
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    Go talk with the professor. Hopefully you saved your exams and/or assignments. Many professors will work with you if you TRULY are only 1 or 2 points away. I had my professor go through some of my exams and he miraculously found a few points to throw me up to the next level. The grade change took a few weeks to show up, but it did happen. Don't be whiny about it though. Just email him/her and ask if you could schedule appointment to discuss your grade. Maybe state your case and provide evidence in a polite manner. If he/she lets you schedule an appointment then bring all of your stuff and be as humble as possible. Now is not time to be the desperate and whiny premed. Don't make excuses as to why you didn't do as well, in fact, take all responsibility for it. This only applies if you are REALLY only a couple of points away from the next grade. If you are like 10 points off then it is a no go. 5 or less? You could probably milk it.

    There are worse things in life though. You would need to get a C or higher. If you worked double time and pushed yourself to get the A on the second go around then AMCAS would show it as a B/B- I think (averages it) and AACOMAS would show it as an A.
     
  5. aliDO

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    If he/she thought he/she failed then the professor probably already pumped the grade some. But I guess it is worth a shot. Anyway, it's not over yet by a long shot, so don't give up!
     
  6. ILikeFood

    ILikeFood NSU Class of 2013
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    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=7493968


    9 threads. 9 ****ing threads.
     
  7. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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  8. MedicalSonata

    MedicalSonata Friendly Pre-Med, PM me!
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  9. engineeredout

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    It is rather excessive to say the least.

    You had two options:

    #1) Post an update in one of the threads you've already created.

    #2) Post in the what are my chances/what should I do thread since thats really where this should be anyway.
     
  10. aliDO

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    I can't say that I blame him. Nothing ever gets answered in the "what are my chances thread" that people automatically post to it (hardly, at least). Plus, is it really THAT annoying? Just don't read it. There are post on the front page from yesterday, so it's not like he or she is taking up precious space.
     
  11. Eudjinn

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    if you can't pull better grades in orgo it is because of one of two reasons:

    1) you aren't working hard enough
    2) you suck at school

    usually, it's the first one. if you hate orgo as much as you say you do, you will loathe many parts of med school biochemistry so take that for what it's worth. do you "hate" it because you hate it or because your grades in it suck?

    now i may be coming off harsh, but i got a D in orgo 1 the first time around. why? because i didn't work hard enough; i gave up mentally before i even tried to understand. i took it over and got an A- because i worked hard and refused to give up until i understood and i went from "HATING" orgo with a passion to loving orgo.

    my point: quit your whining, quit the neurotic premed starting of 50 threads on the same subject, own up to one of my aforementioned reasons for doing poorly, take it over and kick its ass. if you can't handle orgo, you definitely cannot handle medical school.

    stop worrying, stop complaining, stop analyzing, stop planning, stop freaking out and wallowing in your own self pity. SIT ON YOUR BEHIND AND STUDY (and get used to it if your dream is medical school). get the best grades that you can and sort out where your chances are best once the dust settles.
     
    #10 Eudjinn, Dec 17, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2008
  12. I am not sure about this. I pulled C's in Orgo 1 and Orgo 2, I got an A in biochem. They were both really hard classes, the avg for my biochem was a 60%. I just could not stand orgo. Granted, I could have worked harder, but I hated it so I didn't.

    Getting an A- in Orgo is great, but I would sure hope you would get and A- the second time around. When the adcoms ask about my C's in orgo, I will look them in the eye and say "I'm just glad it's over"
     
    #11 123165, Dec 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 17, 2008
  13. MedicalSonata

    MedicalSonata Friendly Pre-Med, PM me!
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    1. It's not a thread on the same subject...I got a C- in Organic Chemistry. NEW subject.

    2. I really do hate organic chemistry. I hate it so much, not because of my grades. I'd hate it with an A. It's completely boring, and seems like such an honest waste of time. I'm not going to be a pharmacist. I'm not going into research. I just want to be a doctor, and I'm never going to be doodling cyclohexane to figure out what's wrong with my patients.
     
  14. circulus vitios

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    http://www.thechemblog.com/?p=973
     
  15. Semicolon

    Semicolon OMS II
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  16. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    wow, that was well written. read that whole thing MedicalSonata, it might give you a little motivation or at least help you see the big picture.
     
  17. Eudjinn

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    In that case, unfortunately, you are going to have to jump through the same hoops and endure the same tortures that may or may not always be relevant to what you will be doing in your future career. Orgo is sort of like a rite of passage.
     
  18. spicedmanna

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    Pardon my crassness, but as I read your, "poor me" posts, sift through what appears to be a predilection toward laziness, and blah, blah, blah, all I can think of is, "get off your lazy butt and get to work!" Obviously you have no idea that medical school is filled with work much more onerous, gratuitous, and tedious than basic organic chemistry, as to make it seem like kindergarten play in comparison. If you approach medical school similarly, you are going to create for yourself a world of hurt, if you indeed even make it that far. Sir, you need to get your stuff together now before considering pursing such a difficult path as medicine. You will be tested each step of the way. Not only will your academic ability be tested, but so will your character. Right now, you are not impressing me with it. A great many of us found organic to be trying and maybe even a bit as you do, but we moved on and did what we had to go to get what we wanted. You will be jumping through a lot of hoops in this process, some much more stupid and difficult than organic chemistry, so I say to you, "suck it up and get used to it." People of great character don't complain too much, they simply take a deep breath and take action.

    Congratulations for not failing organic chemistry. Despite that, however, you would do well to retake organic chemistry and get an A. If you left it at a C-, I would seriously question your drive. Barring irreconcilable issues, you should make every effort to do well in your premedical coursework, particularly your prerequisite classes. If it's within your ability, I'd recommend retaking it. Not only that, I challenge you to appreciate it.
     
  19. PunkmedGirl

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    :idea: Its the same topic of discussion and same subject.:rolleyes:
     
  20. ILikeFood

    ILikeFood NSU Class of 2013
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    Your threads carry the same basic theme: "Help, I screwed up [class/semester], what are my options? And is it hopeless/should I give up now?" Don't your threads touch upon your dislike of organic and the options you should consider if you do poorly? Don't they ask whether this terrible, horrible semester has forever ruined your chances of medical school? Tell me, haven't those questions been answered? I think the worst part about it is after everyone's advice, to say that you'd rather not retake a C- in as important a prerequisite as Organic Chemistry is mindboggling. A C- is a 1.7 gpa. You're a premed, and you're saying you'd rather let the C- sit then try again. Why don't you stop hyperventilating and post again when you have a problem other than laziness.

    I am not the thread nazi. I just don't like it when someone rephrases the same question over and over again in different threads, is given many helpful opinions from many people in pre-allo and pre-osteo, then turns around and starts a new thread asking the same thing.


    You want to be a doctor? So does every premed in the country, and the people with crappy jobs that I meet on the street. You know, the ones who tell you, "Yeah, I wanted to be a doctor, but...[excuses, excuses]." How is a C- going to make your application stand out next to the premed with an A or B or even C in Organic Chemistry I? That is the mentality you should have.

    And get an A in Ochem before you say you'd "hate it with an A." A person with an A in Ochem has a far better understanding and appreciation of it than you do.
     
    #19 ILikeFood, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  21. engineeredout

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    1. So instead of it being a thread on you freaking out about how you're going to fail organic chemistry and have to retake it, its a thread on how you almost did fail organic chemistry but ended up passing with such a poor grade you have to retake it anyway. Gotcha :thumbup:

    2. Man this is why I hate premeds. Back when I took orgo it was before I decided to go to med school, I was taking it as a chemical engineering major. I remember sitting in the lecture hall with 500 people, 495 of which were premeds and then there was the occasional chem engineering major and/or pure chemistry major who wasn't interested in med school. I noticed a common theme among the premeds. They bitch. They bitch and they bitch and they bitch. I'm sitting there thinking to myself that organic was not the hardest class I've taken up to that point, nor will it be. To me, the key to orgo was doing problems. A lot of problems. Every problem that the textbook had. Practice the mechanisms of reactions, look at the problems, read the lectures. ORGANIC IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE, and really is a serious foundation for upper level science/engineering courses.

    The same premeds also bitched that:

    • I don't need physics to be a doctor
    • I don't need calculus to be a doctor (requirement for premeds here)
    • Most of this biology is so useless
    • Why do I need to know how to write?
    • Why do we have to take the mcat? It doesn't prove anything
    GET OVER IT. Sooner you accept that you need organic chemistry and that you should look at it from the point of view that it doesn't have to be that bad the better off you'll be. Stop bitching, retake it, learn it, love it.
     
    #20 engineeredout, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  22. Meh, I don't know. What exactly is it a serious foundation for? Unless it is chemical engineering I would disagree. In fact, unless you are a chemistry major of some sort I still disagree. I do however agree that you have to suck it up and do it. Like I said before, I got C's in my Orgo classes, and have done just fine in my upper level classes.

    Then again, I am not complaining about orgo. I hated it, and if I would have liked it I would have studied more. In retrospect I should have studied more even though I hated it. Alas, I didn't, and I don't think it has hurt me or shows anything of my academic drive. I challenge an adcom to bring it up, and I know that they will.

    Either way, the drama has to go OP. Your options for any class consist of the following

    [] Retake the class
    [] Do better next time
     
  23. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    First semester has a lot of foundational material that most people take for granted after they have learned it, I feel. Check out circulus vitios' link (a few posts earlier) to the chem blog, I totally agree with what it says. The material it covers is not the primary focus, it is the ability to learn it.
     
  24. Bacchus

    Administrator Moderator Physician 10+ Year Member

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    Don't try to get a C. Retake the course. By trying to get and take a C your GPA is still going to suck. In the future don't take 6 credit courses that you aren't going to do well in. There is no way to recover from them if you do poorly for that semester's GPA.
     
  25. I think that this rationale could be used to explain many things, perhaps they could keep semester 1 and eliminate semester 2. I am sure they could come up with something more tailor made for pre-professional students that taught critical thinking skills. In fact my physiology class was completely essay, no multiple choice at all. I learned a lot about critical thinking in that class. Perhaps they could focus on a little more of how organic pertains to biochemistry in semester 2.

    This would have to be a specific class of course, because pre-med kiddos aren't the only ones in organic. I can honestly say that nothing I learned in semester 2 prepped me for biochem, and the stuff from semester one could have been learned in biochem.

    I am not advocating removing organic chemistry, but perhaps 2 semesters of it is overkill. This is more of a rant than anything I guess. If you want to be a doctor, you take organic and that is all there is to it. I am not sure what changing the requirements would do other than increase the applicant pool, but I am not even sure it would do that. I don't know of many people that opted out of medical school because of o-chem. Or really that got C's in organic and because of this didn't get into medical school. It is usually quite a few bad grades that keep people out, which is a totally different problem than not liking organic and doing poorly in it.

    Perhaps that is why they call the MCAT the equalizer. I am going to know the organic on the MCAT like the back of my hand. Not because I like it, or because it teaches me how to think critically, but because it is on the MCAT.
     
  26. Chocolate Bear

    Chocolate Bear Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
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    I'd love to hear how the curriculum was arranged in your ochem classes, because I couldn't disagree more with all of the above--not just the bolded part.
     
  27. I want to stress what I meant.

    The material that pertained to Biochem could have been learned in biochem. I do not mean that organic could have been learned in biochem. I went into organic already knowing how to draw compounds from gen chem. Thinking back, I would like to relax the statement about Organic I and it's pertinence to biochem, as teaching how to draw compounds and learning resonance in biochemistry would not be a very good idea due to time constraints. In fact, looking back I am forgetting a lot of the foundation that I learned in Organic I (not forgetting the material, but forgetting that I learned it in Orgo I). I don't think removing organic I as a pre-req for biochem is a good idea either. However, I still believe that Orgo II was unneeded for biochemistry. I sent you a pm about the curriculum.
     
    #26 123165, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2008
  28. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    I know plenty..O-chem is the gauntlet at my undergrad (and I know Im not alone on this one). About 1/6 of my class dropped out of the science program altogether and another portion changed from pre-physician to something else because of how they did/their will was broken---granted many of them did poorly in other req's sophomore year as well, o-chem seemed to be the deal-breaker.

    Yea this is what I was getting at earlier :thumbup:. Sem II is a little grueling, but so is med-school :shrug:. If nothing else it forces work ethic.
     
  29. It may be the deal breaker, as I would call it the biggest weed-out course of them all. However, I stand by my point that I don't know anyone who decided not to apply to medical school because of organic chemistry alone. Usually it goes along with not doing well in other pre-reqs, like you said.

    I agree though, it definitely forces work ethic, which is essential for medical school.

    Maybe I am just speaking about how organic applied to me. I feel that I have an outstanding work ethic, there was just something about organic that I could not get motivated for.

    In my microbiology class, we had to memorize all that stupid taxonomy crap of the proteobacteria, bacteria, archaea, etc. I thought it was a waste of time, but put in the hours to learn it. Organic was just a different story for me. Looking back, I should have put more time in, but at the time I was very frustrated.


    I guess, we all have those classes though. I could probably argue that a lot of the pre-reqs are silly. However, you have to learn them, and organic requires a ton of work just like medical school.
    In my case, I know that when it comes time for medical school I will put the work in to get the job done, just because I know what is at stake. I hope there won't be a class like organic chemistry where the whole time I am screaming "Why do I need to know this!". But I am guessing there probably will be.

    I give in. Keep o-chem, but I still hate it, and I am still glad it's over.
     
    #28 123165, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 18, 2008
  30. . double post
     
  31. Dissected

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    there always is :D


    aaaaamen!
     
  32. Eudjinn

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    it's ok to dislike orgo, not everyone will be in love with it. this is normal. however, you admit that you could have worked harder and done better.

    Regarding bolded text: if this is the case, why did you not take it over and improve your score? I sure hope you do not say what you intend to say to adcoms because you are basically admitting defeat with this statement (while you might be hoping to receive sympathy from them, which you will not get). They will see your comment as a sign of weakness and lack of drive to excel in your studies. Medical school is 50x harder than organic and if you got a crappy board score and were applying to residency and you were asked why your score is low you would say "I'm glad it's over"?

    Point is: having this attitude in front of someone who will or will not admit you to medical schol (where just merely passing and being glad it's over is not something to be proud of--how would you feel if your surgeon told you he was last in his class?) is a bad idea. You have to make the most of what you are studying and learn as much as you can. If you keep waiting for everything bad to "end" life will pass you by without you ever having lived it.
     
  33. Honestly, I am through with this topic. I am currently a TA for organic lab, and very well received by students. I have learned the material. While I have considered retaking organic, I have ultimately decided that two C's is ok with me. Retaking it would not be to learn the material, it would be for the grade. If I don't get it, then I will reconsider.

    I cannot believe you are extrapolating that life will have passed me and I will never have lived it. Honestly, you don't know much about me or my history, or even the other courses I was taking at the time. If a surgeon told me he was last in his class and was a damn fine surgeon, I don't think I would say a thing.

    And I never said that I was proud of my C's in organic either. I merely said I was ok with them. Speaking of sympathy from adcoms, I was never asking for their sympathy. I am going to approach the situation with honesty and without excuses.

    I am not sure what you are getting at, other than rephrasing what I have already admitted, and giving it a negative connotation while shaking your finger.

    Not to mention, if I am in an interview, then I already know my grades are good enough to be accepted. I could come up with some story to make my grade look better, but that would be bs and they would know it. I believe integrity will win this game.
     
  34. MossPoh

    MossPoh Textures intrigue me
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    Even if you retake the course and get an A the gpa change still isn't going to be that much of an improvement. The science gpa would change just as much by taking another science course to fulfill the science requirements AND getting an A in that class. If you could somehow get it bumped to a C (not probable) then you can just move on and focus on getting A's in other science classes. If that C really does hinder the OP in the future then they can retake. Honestly, one C is not that much of an issue. I have several Cs and several drops and still got multiple interview invites and multiple acceptances.
     
  35. Not true. This is the pre-osteo forum. Retaking the class with an A would replace the original C, where taking another class would just be an average of the two scores.

    I agree with your advice though, as long as the OP does not have too many C's
     
  36. Eudjinn

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    You are right, I do not know anything about you nor do I claim to. I realize that I gave you a hypothetical situation about the surgeon, but I think if this were a real life situation you would have a different opinion. A "damn fine surgeon" usually does not come from the bottom of his class. I never implied you were proud of your grades in Orgo. My referral was to medical school grades, not yours. Approaching the situation with honesty and integrity is 100% the right thing to do and I commend you on understanding this. However, the phrase you said you would use to adcoms was not a correct representation of this attitude. Had you said "I will tell the adcom that I found the material challenging among a heavy course load and did my best/did not do as good as I could have done" or something along those lines, I would not have even commented on your post. I was never shaking my finger at you. I have better things to do than to judge people on the internet. I was bluntly trying to tell you that saying what you planned to say to an adcom is a terrible idea and stating my reasons behind it. You are free to do as you like, obviously.

    Just like you thought I made assumptions about you, you have made assumptions about my intent. I suggest we drop this. I have nothing against you and I am only on here to take a break from work and to help out pre-meds like I was once helped; paying it forward.

    I wish you good luck in your application process.
     
  37. engineeredout

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    An OH group shows up as a broad peak around the 3000 cm-1 range on IR, and C=O is a sharp peak at around 1700.


    Bam I just reviewed all the organic you need for the mcat.
     
  38. Sorry, I probably overreacted. I appreciate the advice and see where it looked like I would take a lack-luster approach to answering adcom questions. I agree that we should drop it. We are all here killing time and just trying to help out. Have happy holidays and cheers.
     
  39. Eudjinn

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    likewise. happy holidays!
     

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