Remember when every other topic was about debt?

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Cello

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I remember in 2009, 2010, and especially 2011 that just about every other thread seemed to discuss the topic of student loan debt. Many pre-dents were reconsidering dental school as they felt the contracting economy would prevent them from earning enough to pay back their loans as dentists. I notice that the panic seems to have died down. Any opinions on why that is?

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Perhaps it's because people now accept it as an unfortunate but inevitable truth. Sure dental school is expensive AF, but I think it is silly to not become what you dream of becoming simple because you don't want to be in an enormous debt.
 
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Yeah... there seems to be a lull in the debt talk right now.

Maybe it just happens in little phases of positive feedback where everyone is chatting about.

Or maybe the chatter picks up as the typical debt load passes some significant number. We're pretty used to the $300,000+ talk at this point.

Or maybe it's just statistical noise.
 
Compared with the other professions dentistry is doing comparatively well. We complain about the prospect of corporate dentistry and a salary of "only" 100,000 a year. Freshly minted attorneys consider themselves lucky if they can find a $40,000 a year job working 50+ hours a week in a doc review dungeon.
 
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Compared with the other professions dentistry is doing comparatively well. We complain about the prospect of corporate dentistry and a salary of "only" 100,000 a year. Freshly minted attorneys consider themselves lucky if they can find a $40,000 a year job working 50+ hours a week in a doc review dungeon.
You obviously like to exaggerate things.....or have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Additionally, there was more going on from a political standpoint at that time regarding student loans, especially with the loan that takes a percentage of your salary for a period of time.
 
You obviously like to exaggerate things.....or have no idea what you are talking about.

If that's an exaggeration, it's a slight one. Law is in an unstoppable death spiral brought on by academic inflation, and the fact is that most who do not attend a top 14 law school have terrible employment prospects, and even within the top 14 it's pretty bad once you get past HYS CCN (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Chicago, Columbia, NYU).

I know because I almost applied to law school. I did quite a bit of homework about it and realized it was a terrible, terrible idea.
 
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I hear people compare it to a colonoscopy. You don't like it but at the same time it's necessary (in our case, to get the DDS lol)
 
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Allow me to introduce you to Incis0r's law of predental debt satisfaction*.

Right now everyone is in happy-go-lucky application mode. "Oh look, this is a beautiful program. It's new too- I'm so applying there! They have two brand new sim clinics!"

August-November; People get more and more happy as they get interview invites

December- the happiness journey peaks; acceptances come out, people are celebrating with family and friends over the holidays

January- Oh wait...this be expensive.

February-April (and for the next four years)- omgomgomgomgomg debt crisis debt crisis!

May- transition month; a few people come out and post really successful stories (rare) that allay the fears of those who are taking out $450K+ in loans. Every person reads their story thinks that this is them and that they'll kill it right out of the gate. That tends to quell the debt talk.

June-July: back to Happy-go-lucky mode for the next batch of applicants.

Keep 'em coming!

*Patent pending; law derived from observation of common pre-dental student behavior on the StudentDoctorNetwork forums.
 
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I think it is silly to not become what you dream of becoming simple because you don't want to be in an enormous debt.
Head on over to the Pre-Vet and Vet forums to see discussions on the harsh reality of pursuing a childhood dream in the face of a bleak financial future.
 
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Head on over to the Pre-Vet and Vet forums to see discussions on the harsh reality of pursuing a childhood dream in the face of a bleak financial future.
I thought pharmacy was bad, what's happening to vets is even worse. Makes me sad but at the same time I admire that they wanna go through that to make a difference.

As for the original question, I know I'm probably not going to be living in a mansion or anything close, but from shadowing, I enjoyed the work and I could see myself doing it day in and day out. I'm pretty sure it'll pay the bills and let me live under a roof and that's fine with me!
 
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I thought pharmacy was bad, what's happening to vets is even worse. Makes me sad but at the same time I admire that they wanna go through that to make a difference.

As for the original question, I know I'm probably not going to be living in a mansion or anything close, but from shadowing, I enjoyed the work and I could see myself doing it day in and day out. I'm pretty sure it'll pay the bills and let me live under a roof and that's fine with me!

what happens to vets now? it is still good right? ~>~ thought vet schools are hard to get into = they ensure the new graduates' prospect more.
 
I have a friend who is pre-vet. She's planning on a 4-year optional residency after 4-years of vet school (full loans @ 250K, 7%). Her desired specialty is pretty lucrative- radiology- it pays an average of 150K/yr out of school.

The income isn't bad, but she's losing four years more after vet school. In her defense though, that residency is a good investment; it will take her income from 50K (avg income right out of vet school) to 150K.
 
We learn to enjoy the cage they have built for us +pity+
 
what happens to vets now? it is still good right? ~>~ thought vet schools are hard to get into = they ensure the new graduates' prospect more.
It's like 85K income for the cost of school similar to med school. Although I didn't know of the residency thing @Incis0r was speaking of so my previous comment might be overstating it!
 
It's like 85K income for the cost of school similar to med school. Although I didn't know of the residency thing @Incis0r was speaking of so my previous comment might be overstating it!

I think you're on point; what you described is what most students (excluding those who did Army Vet HPSP or had parents pay) right out of vet school are going to face if they don't do a residency.
 
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I thought dentistry had it the worse, but at my school, the costs between dent and med are the same aside from the one time 4k purchase of dental instruments being more than med instruments. Then I think about how med students are forced to do residency and accumulate interest for an additional 3-7 years while us dental students can actually make 6 figures in that time and pay off some debt if we choose to.
However, this is a public school I'm referring to. The private school costs are just ridiculous and a whole different can of horrendous worms.
 
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Check out this quote from a grad of a vet school:

There is a huge problem with the debt ratio to salary in the veterinary world. I am partially lucky because I had a college fund that paid for all but $40,000 in vet school loans. My monthly school debt payment is $300. Unlike with a car or a house, I cannot go bankrupt and lose that debt. It will follow me until I die or pay it off. And in some states, if you default on it, you lose your license, so you lose your ability to make money.

When I got out of school, there were about 7 jobs offers for every student. Now, students send out 40 plus resumes and are lucky to find a job that they can tolerate. And there are bad jobs out there: jobs that will burn you out, jobs where bosses and staff belittle you, and jobs that have practices where you could lose your license due to the level of medicine practiced (has anyone seen Dr. Pol???). Most of the places that do practice good medicine will either not be hiring because the doctors there know the problem with jobs and they are holding onto theirs with freakish strength.

And with so many resumes coming across clinic owner's desks, you better believe that they will try to find the cheapest person that will fit the bill. Because with that many people asking about a job, there are plenty of people that could do the job or fit in...the biggest difference will be in what pay people are willing to take.

The other hidden gem that is cropping up in vet med is similar to what the lawyers are experiencing. Many of the jobs are not full time. So, kiss that benefits package goodbye! So lets break it down:

$50,000 gross:
When you take out about 30% for taxes, that leaves you:
$35,000 "take home"
Minus AVMA dues: $300
Minus PLIT dues: $394
Minus state/city association dues: $200-300
DEA: $200/yr
State license: mine is $200
State Professional Privilege Tax: $400/yr
CE: $1500
That leaves about $30,303 if your job doesn't pay benefits.

So, that means you have $2525 per month to spend on living.
Now, imagine that this income is made up of two part time jobs: this means that you have to pay for insurance, AFTER taxes are taken out.
$2525- $500 insurance- $2025 per month.

No, I take out my cost of loan payment:$300
$1725 a month. That $50,000 a year salary was just cut down to less than $21,000 per year. What happens if your student loan is $140,000 instead of $40,000? What happens when it is $240,000?

I have worked at practices where I made $38,000 and I was on call and covered emergency there. I have worked at a large referral institute and made between $15,000 and $25,000 per month but I often worked 90 plus hours a week.

Honestly, if I was facing the debt load that current students face and expected to either live alone or be the primary breadwinner in the family, I would find something else to do. And that is not to say that I don't enjoy being a vet. I love the work. But if I was facing the same costs of med students, I would go to med school and do med corp. My friend did that and after her residency, she spent 5 years in a large city, making $125,000 per year and her student loan was erased.

Vet school itself can cause PTSD in some people. I would say that doubting based on how you feel about the class load itself is completely normal, no matter where you are in class rank. However, it would be a serious mistake to think that "Oh, I won't think about this massive debt... I will just get a job and be able to pay for it because I went to vet school." Practicality has to be at the forefront of your minds. Especially once the newly accredited by the AVMA schools start pumping out the grads. Even the Banfield jobs will dry up then. Especially when they can hire a vet from UNAM, where the students don't have to pay for school.

Sorry to be such a downer, but reality can be harsh. And when established vets are talking about having to go bankrupt because they cannot find a good job (based on the practice, not just on the pay), you need to be concerned.

Thinking about this is a good idea. If you don't think about it now, the surprise later may be your downfall.

You can read more in the original thread, here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/second-thoughts-about-vet-school.886650/
 
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Allow me to introduce you to Incis0r's law of predental debt satisfaction*.

Right now everyone is in happy-go-lucky application mode. "Oh look, this is a beautiful program. It's new too- I'm so applying there! They have two brand new sim clinics!"

August-November; People get more and more happy as they get interview invites

December- the happiness journey peaks; acceptances come out, people are celebrating with family and friends over the holidays

January- Oh wait...this be expensive.

February-April (and for the next four years)- omgomgomgomgomg debt crisis debt crisis!

May- transition month; a few people come out and post really successful stories (rare) that allay the fears of those who are taking out $450K+ in loans. Every person reads their story thinks that this is them and that they'll kill it right out of the gate. That tends to quell the debt talk.

June-July: back to Happy-go-lucky mode for the next batch of applicants.

Keep 'em coming!

*Patent pending; law derived from observation of common pre-dental student behavior on the StudentDoctorNetwork forums.
:hello:
 
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