Report Lying Friend?

[AlleyWay]

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[Goro]

The irony is that club involvement is a really minor EC. He won't get the traction that he think it will give him.

And if he makes it to the interview phase, and gets asked about these, his dishonesty will also likely trip the BS detector.

 

[GreenDuck12]

Personally, I wouldn't engage with your friend about this any further. That could lead to a back and forth that you don't want to get into. It may also cause your friend to take preemptive action against you. Your choices are: 1. do nothing knowing that it won't impact your application 2. contact amcas or 3. contact the schools directly.

 

[deleted859689]

Get better “friends.” Both of you.

 

[AlleyWay]

The irony is that club involvement is a really minor EC. He won't get the traction that he think it will give him.

And if he makes it to the interview phase, and gets asked about these, his dishonesty will also likely trip the BS detector.

Yea, he is honestly a terrific applicant and he has other very strong activities. I just don't understand why he would lie about these smaller activities at the cost of what I thought was a very close friendship. He told me that it wasn't personal, but he had to do everything he could to maximize his chances of making Stanford or Harvard to compete with the big shots. I think there is just a strong emotional component to this for me, especially as it is so fresh...Thanks for your reassurance.

 

[AlleyWay]

Personally, I wouldn't engage with your friend about this any further. That could lead to a back and forth that you don't want to get into. It may also cause your friend to take preemptive action against you. Your choices are: 1. do nothing knowing that it won't impact your application 2. contact amcas or 3. contact the schools directly.

I think I'll most likely let it go if it doesn't seem like it'll impact my application. Just scared because I have been burned before when other people have copied my work or when several people claim credit for the same activity.

 

[AlleyWay]

Get better “friends.” Both of you.

Are you suggesting I should not report it? Because that's fine. I was just worried for my own application because I have gotten burned for other people taking credit for my work (I am not sure if he copy-pasted my descriptions or hours). I'm not sure you can pass judgement on whether we were good friends given that you really don't know our dynamics or situation, but thanks for your input.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

I would not let anyone jeopardize my application in ANY way after the four years of hard work I put into it. The way it sounds, it may appear that your friend *****ed you by providing information that is contradictory to your app. Very small chance schools would notice, but again there is a chance and if it's really big discrepancys may even get you blacked-balled from AMCAS (from what I hear at least).

I would report it to AMCAS and let them deal with it. Send an email so that you have hard evidence that you did your due diligence in case any school asks about it. It helps that he listed you as a reference. Sorry that this happened to you buddy

 

[Goro]

Are you suggesting I should not report it? Because that's fine. I was just worried for my own application because I have gotten burned for other people taking credit for my work (I am not sure if he copy-pasted my descriptions or hours). I'm not sure you can pass judgement on whether we were good friends given that you really don't know our dynamics or situation, but thanks for your input.

As you apparently have a track record of this, plus you used friend in the title of the post, instead of "friend", I suggest for starters that you:
a) do not share any application materials with any other premed
B) do not share any school work with a fellow student
C) be a little more cynical (or realistic) at people's motives

 

[deleted859689]

Are you suggesting I should not report it? Because that's fine. I was just worried for my own application because I have gotten burned for other people taking credit for my work (I am not sure if he copy-pasted my descriptions or hours). I'm not sure you can pass judgement on whether we were good friends given that you really don't know our dynamics or situation, but thanks for your input.

I think that #1 comes first and you should report him. To further elaborate on my comment would have to go into our own personal definition of “friends”, and to what this person’s definition of a friend is. There’s a reason why I avoided drama groups aka “friend groups” in college.

 

[AlleyWay]

As you apparently have a track record of this, plus you used friend in the title of the post, instead of "friend", I suggest for starters that you:
a) do not share any application materials with any other premed
B) do not share any school work with a fellow student
C) be a little more cynical (or realistic) at people's motives

Learned the school work lesson back in middle school haha, but definitely traumatized by it. Probably should not have shared application materials but did appreciate having people go over it, though definitely should have shared it with people who made medical school already, that was my mistake in thinking that people couldn't copy applications/essays since people are so different. Yea, very recently "friend," I've always been too naive and have some growing up and maturing to do beyond academics and tests. I don't feel like he is a bad person, but honestly, people are harder to deal with then classes. Thanks for all the advice and lessons guys, really appreciate it.

 

[Tyrese]

Remember, in the end-all-be-all, your number one advocate is YOURSELF! When it truly comes down to it, you're the most reliable person you know. Everyone else is interested in fulfilling their own self-interests (like your "friend"). Keep this in the back of your mind, most people aren't truly altruistic like in media/TV. Although, there are authentic people out there, they are a dime a dozen. Many acquaintances would betray you if there was a greater benefit for themselves.

I'm not saying to be cynical of others, but I am saying to be careful and aware of human social tendencies. Your "friend" basically used you as a stepping stone towards their med school application (while burning you in the process).

Best of luck OP!

 

[BatmanDO9]

Just wanted to ask for advice on an unconventional situation. So my (now former) best friend misrepresented himself on his primary application. While typically I would let it go, the problem is his lies affect my application. My friend is older than me and switched into the MD path late - due to this, he was unable to access student opportunities such as club involvement, student grants, and leadership after he graduated. I offered to let him help me with administrative and volunteering tasks if he really wanted to get some more volunteering experience, and he gladly accepted. He didn't perform a very good job through the year, saying that he had real jobs and couldn't commit to these activities which I understood. I told him I didn't feel very comfortable with one of the activities in particular, and I explicitly asked him to not include it in his application, and if he wanted to, to please discuss it with me. He agreed not to add it to his activities list.

My first hint should have been when I asked him to look over my primary before I submitted while he told me he was too "embarrassed" to show me his. Anyways, recently we were working on our secondaries together (which he also refuses to show me), and I happened to see his primary up on his screen. To my surprise, 25-33% of our activities were the same, including the one I asked him not to include. Ironically, he listed me as the contact for that activity. Basically, he took credit for work I did (for example, if I was President, he would put co-President, etc.). I am upset on the betrayal front, but I am also worried for my application. I represented myself as the sole leader/founder for many of these activities (which I was), but now, his application implies that maybe I wasn't giving credit to another leader despite the fact that he really wasn't officially or unofficially doing the work. Am I in the right to ask him to email all the schools corrections (at least, on the leadership part though I'm a bit upset since he wasn't a good volunteer in general) or withdraw his application? And if he refuses, to notify schools myself? What would be the right action here? Thank you so much! Sorry for the complicated situation...He is on SDN religiously, so he will be able to see this post and any replies.

don’t snitch.... you don’t want to be the kind of person who snitches. The Universe has a way of getting even, eventually it will come back around to your friend, don’t **** them over

 

[DrStephennmnm]

don’t snitch.... you don’t want to be the kind of person who snitches. The Universe has a way of getting even, eventually it will come back around to your friend, don’t **** them over

OP I think we found your friend

 

[proudofmykids]

Before doing anything, think hard about whether you can Indisputably prove that you are authentically the single president and founder. Otherwise, it would be your word against his which would not cast either of you in good light, casting the doubt of truth on both of you.

first I would Suggest you end all communication with this ex friend.

If you can indisputably prove it, out together a basic package of info stating the facts of authenticity of your claims of your positions and his lack of truth about his claimed position and duties. Also include that you shared your app with him who you thought was a friend only to learn that he misrepresented himself regarding this EC.

if you can put this info package together, I suggest that you submit it to all your schools after you submit secondaries as supplemental info, with a simplified statement similar to the following:

“Regarding my XYZ EC in my application, I would like to indicate that you might receive discrepant and false info from another candidate Name, a former close friend of mine. In Name’s application he makes false claims about his title and involvement related to this EC. I mention this only because I didn’t want you to think I was fabricating my own claims about my role in this EC. I submit the attached info to substantiate my claim and in fact you’ll see that Name included my name as the point of contact. “

You also have the choice of contacting Harvard and Stanford in case they aren’t in your list which would have included them (wait until after primaries submitted so you know they have a file for him).

if you are able to put together this package of info of proof, you need to consider whether he is also capable of putting together a similar package which could cast doubt about yours. This is why I indicated it must be indisputable.

if you can create indisputable proof, I’d say he is screwed. If not, I’d say you have the problem you originally worried about, the discrepancy could be identified by common schools applied to and your claim of sole presidency would on the surface less believable. In this case, you could still send the heartfelt letter (the quote above minus the last sentence) but do add :
“For credibility to my claim, you can see Name used you as a reference in his application for his EC.”

good luck!

 

[Goro]

Before doing anything, think hard about whether you can Indisputably prove that you are authentically the single president and founder. Otherwise, it would be your word against his which would not cast either of you in good light, casting the doubt of truth on both of you.

first in would
Suggest you end all communication with this ex friend.

If you can indisputably prove it, out together a basic package of info stating the facts of authenticity of your claims of your positions and his lack of truth about his claimed position and duties. Also include that you shared your app with him who you thought was a friend only to learn that he misrepresented himself regarding this EC.

if you can put this info package together, I suggest that you submit it to all your schools after you submit secondaries as supplemental info, with a simplified statement similar to the following:

“Regarding my XYZ EC in my application, I would like to indicate that you might receive discrepant and false info from another candidate Name, a former close friend of mine. In Name’s application he makes false claims about his title and involvement related to this EC. I mention this only because I didn’t want you to think I was fabricating my own claims about my role in this EC. I submit the attached info to substantiate my claim and in fact you’ll see that Name included my name as the point of contact. “

You also have the choice of contacting Harvard and Stanford in case they aren’t in your list which would have included them (wait until after primaries submitted so you know they have a file for him).

if you are able to put together this package of info of proof, you need to consider whether he is also capable of putting together a similar package which could cast doubt about yours. This is why I indicated it must be indisputable.

if you can create indisputable proof, I’d say he is screwed. If not, I’d say you have the problem you originally worried about, the discrepancy could be identified by common schools applied to and your claim of sole presidency would in the surface is less believable. In this case, while you could still send the heartfelt letter (the quote above minus the last sentence) but do add :
“For credibility to my claim, you can see Name used you as a reference in his application for his EC.”

good luck.

In addition to the wise advice above, it would help to get some faculty involved on your side. Your "friend" may have violated your school's honor code. Don't get mad, get even.

 

[readmypostsMD]

I feel like the school’s will probably not notice. Odds are like 3% that they notice

If they do notice, they’ll probably write it off some minor mix-up and that you both had ethical intentions. Odds that they don’t think this way are like 20%

That gives this whole thingy a 0.6% chance of impacting you negatively

call me Einstein baby

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Before doing anything, think hard about whether you can Indisputably prove that you are authentically the single president and founder. Otherwise, it would be your word against his which would not cast either of you in good light, casting the doubt of truth on both of you.

first in would
Suggest you end all communication with this ex friend.

If you can indisputably prove it, out together a basic package of info stating the facts of authenticity of your claims of your positions and his lack of truth about his claimed position and duties. Also include that you shared your app with him who you thought was a friend only to learn that he misrepresented himself regarding this EC.

if you can put this info package together, I suggest that you submit it to all your schools after you submit secondaries as supplemental info, with a simplified statement similar to the following:

“Regarding my XYZ EC in my application, I would like to indicate that you might receive discrepant and false info from another candidate Name, a former close friend of mine. In Name’s application he makes false claims about his title and involvement related to this EC. I mention this only because I didn’t want you to think I was fabricating my own claims about my role in this EC. I submit the attached info to substantiate my claim and in fact you’ll see that Name included my name as the point of contact. “

You also have the choice of contacting Harvard and Stanford in case they aren’t in your list which would have included them (wait until after primaries submitted so you know they have a file for him).

if you are able to put together this package of info of proof, you need to consider whether he is also capable of putting together a similar package which could cast doubt about yours. This is why I indicated it must be indisputable.

if you can create indisputable proof, I’d say he is screwed. If not, I’d say you have the problem you originally worried about, the discrepancy could be identified by common schools applied to and your claim of sole presidency would in the surface is less believable. In this case, while you could still send the heartfelt letter (the quote above minus the last sentence) but do add :
“For credibility to my claim, you can see Name used you as a reference in his application for his EC.”

good luck.

The only concern I would have with OP emailing each school individually (or worse posting this information in secondarys) is that it might make OP look unprofessional and like a child, even though he is clearly in the right. I think he should focus as little attention on this as possible while at least doing his part in notifying someone, which is why I think he should first start by emailing AMCAS instead. Then, if AMCAS responds telling OP to contact individual schools, OP can reference this when he does contact schools. Imo this looks like OP did his due diligence before going to the extreme of contacting schools. I do agree tho that he needs indisputable proof. It is a good thing though that he was listed as a reference for one activity (which I think would count as proof)

 

[queenofcanines]

OP, I guess it depends on what kind of activity it is. For example: if someone stated they were the co-director of an on-campus club, schools will not really care because literally anyone can make a club on campus. But if it's a bigger thing like being the lead researcher on a published project or founder of a nonprofit that is very different. So maybe some more specifications on your situation could help us give you a better idea of how to approach the situation. If it is like the latter examples, I am sure that there is documentation that your "friend" would be able to provide to verify their position to schools.

 

[wysdoc]

I feel like the school’s will probably not notice. Odds are like 3% that they notice

If they do notice, they’ll probably write it off some minor mix-up and that you both had ethical intentions. Odds that they don’t think this way are like 20%

That gives this whole thingy a 0.6% chance of impacting you negatively

call me Einstein baby

You might be surprised what they check on...
In a taped interview the Dell Medical School admissions dean this week said that one applicant claimed on his app that he had founded a particular charitable club and was its president. She said, "Hey, I actually know the person who started this club, quite well, and this guy isn't it!"
She did not say whether she contacted the applicant about his falsehood, but the repercussion was that he was not offered admission.

 

[Goro]

You might be surprised what they check on...
In a taped interview the Dell Medical School admissions dean this week, she said that one applicant claimed on his app that he had founded a particular charitable club and was its president. She said, "Hey, I actually know the person who started this club, quite well, and this guy isn't it!"
She did not say whether she contacted the applicant about his falsehood, but the repercussion was that he was not offered admission.

It is highly probably that TMDAS was notified, and that guy's medical caree ris now over. One can't rule out AMCAS being notified either.

 

[Talldoctor96]

My personal advice (and this is just what I would do) is to do nothing. This is not what I think is the virtuous thing to do, but what I WOULD DO.

Here is my take: sounds like you had a messy friend fall out, “ex best friend” is a pretty strong thing to say. Messaging Med schools about this has huge implications and I would be worried this would just become a MESS. His or her actions truly are not going to hurt you, and it’s not worth the chaotic emotional mess this would cause. This cycle is emotionally draining enough, in my opinion this is just something you let go. Again what I would do, nothing more.

 

[BatmanDO9]

My personal advice (and this is just what I would do) is to do nothing. This is not what I think is the virtuous thing to do, but what I WOULD DO.

Here is my take: sounds like you had a messy friend fall out, “ex best friend” is a pretty strong thing to say. Messaging Med schools about this has huge implications and I would be worried this would just become a MESS. His or her actions truly are not going to hurt you, and it’s not worth the chaotic emotional mess this would cause. This cycle is emotionally draining enough, in my opinion this is just something you let go. Again what I would do, nothing more.

I guess this is a more PC way of saying what I tried to say in my previous comment.... no offense but if I was on an admissions committee and someone contacted me about a friend that lied on there application it would hurt you as well. It’s not a good look

 

[Talldoctor96]

I guess this is a more PC way of saying what I tried to say in my previous comment.... no offense but if I was on an admissions committee and someone contacted me about a friend that lied on there application it would hurt you as well. It’s not a good look

Exactly.

 

[GreenDuck12]

The irony here is how many schools have MMI scenarios probing how applicants would respond to colleagues doing something dishonest and are looking for folks who would report them. I don’t disagree with this take, I just find it ironic.

 

[Goro]

The irony here is how many schools have MMI scenarios probing how applicants would respond to colleagues doing something dishonest and are looking for folks who would report them. I don’t disagree with this take, I just find it ironic.

Yeah, I hate those style of questions. They simply ask for candidates to lie.

You can see from the responses here in this thread that there are plenty of people who are OK with dishonesty.

 

[Talldoctor96]

Yeah, I hate those style of questions. They simply ask for candidates to lie.

You can see from the responses here in this thread that there are plenty of people who are OK with dishonesty.

To be fair, I think there’s a difference between “being okay with dishonesty” and “not emailing 30 Med schools reporting something that seems arguably arbitrary (which “position” someone held in a club they created) to report that a friend, that’s no longer your friend, who wrote something you briefly saw while scrolling through something you did not have their consent to read.”

 

[DoctHouse]

Nah don't snitch, just let it go. I doubt it'll come back and bite you in the rear so if I were you I would just forget about all of it and move on from this 'friend'.

 

[candbgirl]

OP does this person know you saw his application?

 

[proudofmykids]

To be fair, I think there’s a difference between “being okay with dishonesty” and “not emailing 30 Med schools reporting something that seems arguably arbitrary (which “position” someone held in a club they created) to report that a friend, that’s no longer your friend, who wrote something you briefly saw while scrolling through something you did not have their consent to read.”

I think you are ignoring the subtlety of the real issue Which was not to report a lying friend. The real issue was protecting their own application which was contradicted by the friend’s application.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

OP seems to have deleted his original post. I think he gave in and decided to let his friend get away with it

 

[wysdoc]

OP seems to have deleted his original post. I think he gave in and decided to let his friend get away with it

Or friend reacted badly to recognizing his story on SDN and made a scene.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Or friend reacted badly to recognizing his story on SDN and made a scene.

In either case he gave in to his friend's wishes at OPs expense