Report USMLE or not?

[JB3930]

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Hi everyone,

So its pretty simple. Comlex 1 525, Comlex 2 590, Step 1 202, Step 2 239. Applying to pediatrics. I know I have pretty solid scores for peds. However I am still questioning if I should forgoe reporting USMLE(Due to Step 1) and aim a little higher. One of the programs I am looking at has a cut off of 210 for Step 1, but I meet the cut off for COMLEX1. Is it different for DO students or is it pretty set in stone that I will not interview there? I read an old forum in 2011 that said it was a match violation if you dont report your USMLE scores but I cannot find anything like that in eras.

 

[Pugsnhugs]

It depends. If you apply on the AOA side of ERAS then you don’t report your USMLE. There isn’t an option to, only your COMLEX. however, if you apply on the ACGME side of ERAS then you are required to submit your USMLE if you took it.

Your scores are solid for peds though and I doubt a low USMLE 1 score is going to hurt you much especially as a DO applicant.

 

[Rekt]

It depends. If you apply on the AOA side of ERAS then you don’t report your USMLE. There isn’t an option to, only your COMLEX. however, if you apply on the ACGME side of ERAS then you are required to submit your USMLE if you took it.

Your scores are solid for peds though and I doubt a low USMLE 1 score is going to hurt you much especially as a DO applicant.

This is incorrect. You do not have to submit your Step scores, with that said, OP, I would submit them. They will help you and your improvement on Step 2 is an impressive increase in my opinion.

 

[doing_all_the_things]

I would also like a solid answer. I understand that having a STEP score is good even if you did below average because many programs require it. But what if you did very poorly on STEP 1 and STEP 2 but did extremely well on COMLEX 1 and 2. Is there any way for ERAS or the programs I'm applying to to know whether or not I took the STEP exams?

Is it actually going to risk my entire match to not report the score for an exam I didnt even have to take?

 

[Rekt]

I would also like a solid answer. I understand that having a STEP score is good even if you did below average because many programs require it. But what if you did very poorly on STEP 1 and STEP 2 but did extremely well on COMLEX 1 and 2. Is there any way for ERAS or the programs I'm applying to to know whether or not I took the STEP exams?

Is it actually going to risk my entire match to not report the score for an exam I didnt even have to take?

From my understanding, you're not forced to report it. But, if you're at an interview and a program asks you about Step, that becomes your own ethical dilemma

 

[Pugsnhugs]

Hi everyone,

So its pretty simple. Comlex 1 525, Comlex 2 590, Step 1 202, Step 2 239. Applying to pediatrics. I know I have pretty solid scores for peds. However I am still questioning if I should forgoe reporting USMLE(Due to Step 1) and aim a little higher. One of the programs I am looking at has a cut off of 210 for Step 1, but I meet the cut off for COMLEX1. Is it different for DO students or is it pretty set in stone that I will not interview there? I read an old forum in 2011 that said it was a match violation if you dont report your USMLE scores but I cannot find anything like that in eras.

It is required to report if you’ve taken steps if you applying on the acgme side of eras.

 

[Pugsnhugs]

This is incorrect. You do not have to submit your Step scores, with that said, OP, I would submit them. They will help you and your improvement on Step 2 is an impressive increase in my opinion.

You are incorrect

 

[doing_all_the_things]

It is required to report if you’ve taken steps if you applying on the acgme side of eras.

I understand that we are told to report that we have taken it on ERAS but is there really a way for programs or ERAS to know that we took the exam if we don't report it. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting in trouble or doing it successfully?

 

[Rekt]

I understand that we are told to report that we have taken it on ERAS but is there really a way for programs or ERAS to know that we took the exam if we don't report it. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting in trouble or doing it successfully?

No and that's where he is still incorrect. It really comes down to semantics. This has been discussed every single year.

 

[Pugsnhugs]

I understand that we are told to report that we have taken it on ERAS but is there really a way for programs or ERAS to know that we took the exam if we don't report it. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting in trouble or doing it successfully

They probably will not find out. But is it worth the risk? I looked heavily into this for myself and consequences could include losing your position if you match somewhere. Not worth it in my honest opinion

 

[doing_all_the_things]

They probably will not find out. But is it worth the risk? I looked heavily into this for myself and consequences could include losing your position if you match somewhere. Not worth it in my honest opinion

Yes but I would risk not matching anywhere with 2 very low STEP scores. I imagine you could just play dumb, especially considering my school outright told us in a lecture that reporting STEP scores as a DO student was optional even applying to ACGME programs in ERAS. Would a program really dismiss someone for omitting an optional exam score even if it was passing? What if I apply to traditionally AOA programs that switched to ACGME or does that not make a difference.

If i'm asked directly why I dont have a STEP score what could I say other than lying?

I just wish that I could have my COMLEX SCORE assessed while programs appreciating that I took and passed the STEP exams.

 

[hallowmann]

Hi everyone,

So its pretty simple. Comlex 1 525, Comlex 2 590, Step 1 202, Step 2 239. Applying to pediatrics. I know I have pretty solid scores for peds. However I am still questioning if I should forgoe reporting USMLE(Due to Step 1) and aim a little higher. One of the programs I am looking at has a cut off of 210 for Step 1, but I meet the cut off for COMLEX1. Is it different for DO students or is it pretty set in stone that I will not interview there? I read an old forum in 2011 that said it was a match violation if you dont report your USMLE scores but I cannot find anything like that in eras.

In the past it was an explicit requirement, but I believe that was no longer the case as of ~2015. In your case, depending on the specialty I probably would release scores though. I would argue that in most specialties having a low Step 1 and solid Step 2 is better than no Step at all.

As far as the cutoffs go, its variable depending on the program. Some programs will have very hard cutoffs, others just include it as a deterrent and still dip below it for interviews.

It is required to report if you’ve taken steps if you applying on the acgme side of eras.

All you've posted is an undated screenshot of an excerpt of an osteopathic.org web page (not even ERAS or NRMP). This does not verify the requirement. The only way to verify it would be to contact ERAS directly or to show it stated on the ERAS TOS.

As I said, this was a requirement in the past, but lately it seems that the wording on ERAS that implied it was required had changed.

 

[Pugsnhugs]

Yes but I would risk not matching anywhere with 2 very low STEP scores. I imagine you could just play dumb, especially considering my school outright told us in a lecture that reporting STEP scores as a DO student was optional even applying to ACGME programs in ERAS. Would a program really dismiss someone for omitting an optional exam score even if it was passing? What if I apply to traditionally AOA programs that switched to ACGME or does that not make a difference.

If i'm asked directly why I dont have a STEP score what could I say other than lying?

I just wish that I could have my COMLEX SCORE assessed while programs appreciating that I took and passed the STEP exams.

In the case they flat out ask, I would be honest and say you have it. Then say you didn’t know you had to report it because your school told you that you didn’t have to. Honest “mistake”. Not sure how many program directors will care to ask

 

[Pugsnhugs]

In the past it was an explicit requirement, but I believe that was no longer the case as of ~2015. In your case, depending on the specialty I probably would release scores though. I would argue that in most specialties having a low Step 1 and solid Step 2 is better than no Step at all.

As far as the cutoffs go, its variable depending on the program. Some programs will have very hard cutoffs, others just include it as a deterrent and still dip below it for interviews.



All you've posted is an undated screenshot of an excerpt of an osteopathic.org web page (not even ERAS or NRMP). This does not verify the requirement. The only way to verify it would be to contact ERAS directly or to show it stated on the ERAS TOS.

As I said, this was a requirement in the past, but lately it seems that the wording on ERAS that implied it was required had changed.

Okay, this is from the AOA dated today. Take it for what you will but personally I’m not risking it.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

The current wording in the ERAS User Guide is vague:

Note for D.O. Applicants: Consider whether you will apply to ACGME and/or AOA-accredited programs. The COMLEX-USA transcript can be assigned to both ACGME-accredited and AOA-accredited programs but the USMLE transcript can only be assigned to ACGME-accredited programs. If you apply to ACGME accredited programs, please be sure to request transcripts for all licensure examinations you have taken (i.e., USMLE, COMLEX-USA examinations) and assign to those programs. If you only apply to AOA accredited programs, you only need to request your COMLEX-USA transcript.

Although not completely explicit, this suggests you need to release your scores. It's unlikely any program would actually fire you over not releasing your USMLE scores. If your USMLE transcript had irregular behavior or failures on it, perhaps more concerning.

There's no "right" answer here. Personally I'd just release them -- because I think there's less worry down that road. You might get rejected from programs and then worry that if you hadn't released your scores, maybe you would have gotten an interview. But maybe not, and this is worry you have at home on your own. If you don't release them, then you might worry at the interviews themselves that someone will ask about USMLE. I would want to avoid that situation, but that's how I roll.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The current wording in the ERAS User Guide is vague:



Although not completely explicit, this suggests you need to release your scores. It's unlikely any program would actually fire you over not releasing your USMLE scores. If your USMLE transcript had irregular behavior or failures on it, perhaps more concerning.

There's no "right" answer here. Personally I'd just release them -- because I think there's less worry down that road. You might get rejected from programs and then worry that if you hadn't released your scores, maybe you would have gotten an interview. But maybe not, and this is worry you have at home on your own. If you don't release them, then you might worry at the interviews themselves that someone will ask about USMLE. I would want to avoid that situation, but that's how I roll.[/QUOTE

Better to post scores and show improvement than being quizzed about why you didn't post them. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Goro]

In the above post Angus' response got buried. Here is his sage counsel:
Better to post scores and show improvement than being quizzed about why you didn't post them. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[doing_all_the_things]

The advice to post scores seems to be predicated on doing better on STEP 2 and doing ok but below average on one of the exams. What if the situation is reversed? Say you got 30th percentile on STEP1 and 15th percentile on STEP2. Where as you were 85th percentile on both COMLEX 1 and 2. At this point would you say it might be a good idea to omit STEP scores?

 

[Angus Avagadro]

The advice to post scores seems to be predicated on doing better on STEP 2 and doing ok but below average on one of the exams. What if the situation is reversed? Say you got 30th percentile on STEP1 and 15th percentile on STEP2. Where as you were 85th percentile on both COMLEX 1 and 2. At this point would you say it might be a good idea to omit STEP scores?

In this hypothetical case, I think I would apply AOA match and to the AOA residency I desired and not worry about USMLE scores as they would not require I divulge them. If asked at interview I would tell the truth.

 

[UnoMas]

I would release it. Your Step 1 isn't the best but it's still a PASS. Your Step 2 is right around the average. I don't think you'll have any issue matching Peds. The match is already stressful enough you don't want to hide anything and have it come back and bite you in the butt

 

[JB3930]

Hey you guys thanks for the responses. I’m going to report them I am applying ACGME. There is barely any peds AOA left lol. It’s just that darn step 1! I just hope they look at my score and understand it would be higher if I just had to take the USMLE. Or that I knew better and didn’t take it at all. I couldn’t find anything on ERAS that said it is a requirement, but I understand the ethics side of it. I’m sure I’ll match, just the thought of being excluded from more programs sucks. But that is the plight of a DO student in an MD world.

 

[hallowmann]

The current wording in the ERAS User Guide is vague:



Although not completely explicit, this suggests you need to release your scores. It's unlikely any program would actually fire you over not releasing your USMLE scores. If your USMLE transcript had irregular behavior or failures on it, perhaps more concerning.

There's no "right" answer here. Personally I'd just release them -- because I think there's less worry down that road. You might get rejected from programs and then worry that if you hadn't released your scores, maybe you would have gotten an interview. But maybe not, and this is worry you have at home on your own. If you don't release them, then you might worry at the interviews themselves that someone will ask about USMLE. I would want to avoid that situation, but that's how I roll.

This seems more clear to me than anything. This wording to me implies that you should submit it, but not necessarily that there are consequences for not doing so.

In general, I agree with aProgDirector that submitting is the safest route to take. The only scenario in which it might give me pause is a case of someone doing well on COMLEX 1&2 and having a failed Step1. With low passes on the Step, its still probably better to submit the USMLE score report.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

Has anyone actually ever been kicked out of an duel AOA/ACGME residency program for not reporting USMLE? Is this just fear-mongering speculation? or does this actually happen? My understanding is that AOA programs do not require you to release USMLE scores. How will this change after the merger? Will AOA programs now be "duel AOA/ACGME" and thus require USMLE release?

Side note:
I now tell 1st and 2nd year medical students that it may be wise to just take the Comlex and shoot for a 600. Otherwise you might end up with a <525 Comlex and a <215 USMLE if you spread yourself too thin. I know some DOs who made the 700 club who just used Comlex Qbanks (and not UFAP)

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Has anyone actually ever been kicked out of an duel AOA/ACGME residency program for not reporting USMLE? Is this just fear-mongering speculation? or does this actually happen? My understanding is that AOA programs do not require you to release USMLE scores. How will this change after the merger? Will AOA programs now be "duel AOA/ACGME" and thus require USMLE release?

Side note:
I now tell 1st and 2nd year medical students that it may be wise to just take the Comlex and shoot for a 600. Otherwise you might end up with a <525 Comlex and a <215 USMLE if you spread yourself too thin by trying to master Comlex 2200 Qbanks + DO review books + UFAP. (I know some DOs who made the 700 club and never even used Uworld or FA.)

Thats terrible advice. They should be taking both. If you have to only focus on one make it Step. The only way I would focus exclusively on COMLEX is if I wanted ENT or something like that where my only shot would be a high COMLEX and a bazillion audition rotations in former AOA.

 

[UnoMas]

Has anyone actually ever been kicked out of an duel AOA/ACGME residency program for not reporting USMLE? Is this just fear-mongering speculation? or does this actually happen? My understanding is that AOA programs do not require you to release USMLE scores. How will this change after the merger? Will AOA programs now be "duel AOA/ACGME" and thus require USMLE release?

Side note:
I now tell 1st and 2nd year medical students that it may be wise to just take the Comlex and shoot for a 600. Otherwise you might end up with a <525 Comlex and a <215 USMLE if you spread yourself too thin. I know some DOs who made the 700 club who just used Comlex Qbanks (and not UFAP)

1st and 2nd years, read this post and do the exact opposite

On a serious note:
- Not using UFAP for Step 1 is a HUGE mistake. COMBANK is a **** qbank, don't waste your time on it. The only thing it's good for is probably the OMM questions. UFAP+ the Greenbook.
- The goal for an OMS-2 from here on out should be passing the COMLEX + doing well on the USMLE. A Step score of 230 looks a lot better/opens a lot more doors than a 600 COMLEX alone, generally speaking. The COMLEX is such a ****ty test there's almost no way to gauge how you are doing on your practice tests to predict your score vs. the NBMEs/UWSAs are really good at predicting Step scores, telling students to shoot for a 600 is rather silly vs. saying don't take Step 1 until you hit 230 on your practice.

Both exams test the same medical concepts with the COMLEX being easier to pass for the silly voodoo questions. You study for the USMLE + review OMT to pass the COMLEX

 

[Caffeine Matters]

1st and 2nd years, read this post and do the exact opposite

On a serious note:
- Not using UFAP for Step 1 is a HUGE mistake. COMBANK is a **** qbank, don't waste your time on it. The only thing it's good for is probably the OMM questions. UFAP+ the Greenbook.
- The goal for an OMS-2 from here on out should be passing the COMLEX + doing well on the USMLE. A Step score of 230 looks a lot better/opens a lot more doors than a 600 COMLEX alone, generally speaking. The COMLEX is such a ****ty test there's almost no way to gauge how you are doing on your practice tests to predict your score vs. the NBMEs/UWSAs are really good at predicting Step scores, telling students to shoot for a 600 is rather silly vs. saying don't take Step 1 until you hit 230 on your practice.

Both exams test the same medical concepts with the COMLEX being easier to pass for the silly voodoo questions. You study for the USMLE + review OMT to pass the COMLEX

I hear your point. It is good advice for most.

If you are scoring 230s+ on NBMEs a week before the test, then yes it is better to take both.
I know someone who ended up with a 220 Step1 and failed Comlex level 1. Her reasoning was that she tried to cram COMBANK and the greenbook the week after step, and ended up burning out. Now she has a red flag.
If you look at the data for DOs, pretty much everyone with a 600 matches into their desired specialty (excluding ortho).

In my experience, the tests were completely different. Preparing for the semantics and speed of both tests is different and requires you to switch mental gears. COMLEX is about recall and BS. USMLE is about applied reasoning. So you really have to prepare for 2 different tests, which requires more time. If you can handle it and get 230s+ then great, take both. If you only have 4 weeks of dedicated, then spreading yourself too thin could backfire.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

Thats terrible advice. They should be taking both. If you have to only focus on one make it Step. The only way I would focus exclusively on COMLEX is if I wanted ENT or something like that where my only shot would be a high COMLEX and a bazillion audition rotations in former AOA.

There is another reason why DO students score lower on average for the USMLE. It is more difficult to prepare for 2 tests.

If you look at the data here on SDN under specialty excel tables for the last cycle you will notice that there exists a bimodal trend.
There is a trend of applicants who scored ~220-240 USMLE and 550-650 Comlex. Great. They will match.
There is also a trend of people who score 200-215 USMLE and 400-525 Comlex. Not great. At risk of not matching.

Then there is the NRMP charting outcomes which show that over nearly all DO students with 600+ Comlex match into their desired specialty. (excluding ortho)

For Anesthesia, ~97% of applicants with a 600+ Comlex matched.

 

[hallowmann]

...
Then there is the NRMP charting outcomes which show that over nearly all DO students with 600+ Comlex match into their desired specialty. (excluding ortho)

For Anesthesia, ~97% of applicants with a 600+ Comlex matched.

Just to point out something that you may be missing: the NRMP charting outcomes does not tell you who took both exams. A lot (almost all) of those people with >600 COMLEX and matched into specialties likely took both exams, so you're assuming the 600 COMLEX is what carried them into the ACGME specialty of their choice, when in fact it was probably that 220/230 USMLE that accompanied it.

 

[Sardonix]

Scoring mathematics aside, even in the DO friendly midwest if you want to do anything more competitive than FM step 1 is pretty recommended so long as one is confident in passing.

For example, in my home state ALL FM programs are familiar and accepting of the COMLEX. The minute you switch over to searching IM/EM programs they all require Step. That's just the game.

 

[PathoTurnUp1865]

Is it possible to submit step 2 but not step 1 or does it automatically submit both?

 

[Sardonix]

Both UMN ER residencies. I do not think the Mayo ER program strictly requires it, but I have never talked to an ER resident who didn't have it.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

Scoring mathematics aside, even in the DO friendly midwest if you want to do anything more competitive than FM step 1 is pretty recommended so long as one is confident in passing.

For example, in my home state ALL FM programs are familiar and accepting of the COMLEX. The minute you switch over to searching IM/EM programs they all require Step. That's just the game.

You would be correct if you make a statement like "successful USMLE scores can open more doors for osteopaths". But you are spreading SDN falsehoods when you say "they all require step". Here are some facts.

For Emergency med.
Page 59 of NRMP charting outcomes shows that 434 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of NRMP SAP results shows that 484 osteopaths matched EM.
50 students matched EM with just comlex.

For Internal med.
Page 89 of charting outcomes says 748 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of SAP shows that 875 of osteopaths matched.
127 matched IM with just comlex.

I know several wonderful students who matched into their top IM or EM programs with just a comlex.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

Just to point out something that you may be missing: the NRMP charting outcomes does not tell you who took both exams. A lot (almost all) of those people with >600 COMLEX and matched into specialties likely took both exams, so you're assuming the 600 COMLEX is what carried them into the ACGME specialty of their choice, when in fact it was probably that 220/230 USMLE that accompanied it.

You are incorrect. The NRMP data actually show only data for students who took BOTH exams. It does not include data for students who took just Comlex.

For example for Family Medicine:
-page 72 shows 540 DOs taking comlex and matching, and page 74 shows those same 540 DOs taking USMLE and matching.
-According to American Academy of Family Physicians. 1,206 DOs matched into Family Medicine last year.
- Therefor 666 DOs applied to FM with just a comlex.
(Side note, is that 666 # a conspiracy? )

 

[BorntobeDO?]

You would be correct if you make a statement like "successful USMLE scores can open more doors for osteopaths". But you are spreading SDN falsehoods when you say "they all require step". Here are some facts.

For Emergency med.
Page 59 of NRMP charting outcomes shows that 434 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of NRMP SAP results shows that 484 osteopaths matched EM.
50 students matched EM with just comlex.

For Internal med.
Page 89 of charting outcomes says 748 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of SAP shows that 875 of osteopaths matched.
127 matched IM with just comlex.

I know several wonderful students who matched into their top IM or EM programs with just a comlex.

You're unintentionally supporting the argument that you need USMLE for anything but primary care very well. I am surprised at how many had USMLE and matched IM. Thats 85% that had Step in a specialty thought to be decently COMLEX friendly at the bottom. 90% that matched had USMLE for EM. I am not seeing a good argument for only taking COMLEX for anything other than FM.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

You're unintentionally supporting the argument that you need USMLE for anything but primary care very well. I am surprised at how many had USMLE and matched IM. Thats 85% that had Step in a specialty thought to be decently COMLEX friendly at the bottom. 90% that matched had USMLE for EM. I am not seeing a good argument for only taking COMLEX for anything other than FM.

Well. I agree that one should take both if you can handle it.

However, if you read my original post. You will notice my argument is that for some students, studying for both exams can make you spread yourself too thin and you might end up with a <525 comlex and <215 step. I say this because I know 2 students who had similar class rank. One student took both exams and burnt out, she failed her comlex and did ok on USMLE. The other student just took comlex, got a 600 and matched EM. So for many students, they might want to reconsider signing up for step, especially if they aren't great test takers, are in the bottom half of class rank, or feel overwhelmed by additional board resources to churn through.

I bet you that this guy in the original post at the top - if he had just studied his butt off for comlex alone, then he could have hit a 600, and be set. But now he has a 202 USMLE red flag.

If you can make good grades, and feel confident that you can take both exams, then great. What if you are not this type of student? We need to encourage these average students who fall in this "gray zone" of the bell curve to just focus on comlex first. The problem is, SDN posters tell every osteopath that they "have to take Step". Or that "All EM and IM programs require step"... This causes many struggling students to feel pressured to take on a burden that they can't handle. As a result, many average students suffer from bad advice and get a red flag with a USMLE <215

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Well. I agree that one should take both if you can handle it.

However, if you read my original post. You will notice my argument is that for some students, studying for both exams can make you spread yourself too thin and you might end up with a <525 comlex and <215 step. I say this because I know 2 students who had similar class rank. One student took both exams and burnt out, she failed her comlex and did ok on USMLE. The other student just took comlex, got a 600 and matched EM. So for many students, they might want to reconsider signing up for step, especially if they aren't great test takers, are in the bottom half of class rank, or feel overwhelmed by additional board resources to churn through.

I bet you that this guy in the original post at the top - if he had just studied his butt off for comlex alone, then he could have hit a 600, and be set. But now he has a 202 USMLE red flag.

If you can make good grades, and feel confident that you can take both exams, then great. What if you are not this type of student? We need to encourage these average students who fall in this "gray zone" of the bell curve to just focus on comlex first. The problem is, SDN posters tell every osteopath that they "have to take Step". Or that "All EM and IM programs require step"... This causes many struggling students to feel pressured to take on a burden that they can't handle. As a result, many average students suffer from bad advice and get a red flag with a USMLE <215

It doesn't work that way. Someone who can hit a 600 will not get a 202 on Step. Other than the 17-18 cycle 600 has always been 80 percentile plus, you have to know a lot more than just OMM to get that. Its not easy.

 

[Caffeine Matters]

It doesn't work that way. Someone who can hit a 600 will not get a 202 on Step. Other than the 17-18 cycle 600 has always been 80 percentile plus, you have to know a lot more than just OMM to get that. Its not easy.

I don't know. I don't think those exams are just about knowledge. A good portion of the exam is execution, mental focus, fatigue, burn-out, speed reading, recognizing the traps, taking time to become familiar with the Uworld phraseology vs BS combank phraseology... taking time to take practice NBMEs and NBOMEs on the weekends when you only have 4 weeks of dedicated. Having the time to invest in both tests leads to success. Not just the knowledge. I find that the content may be similar, but the way the exams are written are extremely different. It takes time to prepare for both testing styles.

One of the most knowledgeable docs I have ever met failed Comlex on 1st attempt. Knowledge is just the foundation. There are plenty of smart docs who struggle with test taking

 

[Sardonix]

You would be correct if you make a statement like "successful USMLE scores can open more doors for osteopaths". But you are spreading SDN falsehoods when you say "they all require step". Here are some facts.

For Emergency med.
Page 59 of NRMP charting outcomes shows that 434 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of NRMP SAP results shows that 484 osteopaths matched EM.
50 students matched EM with just comlex.

For Internal med.
Page 89 of charting outcomes says 748 osteopaths who took both exams matched.
Page 8 of SAP shows that 875 of osteopaths matched.
127 matched IM with just comlex.

I know several wonderful students who matched into their top IM or EM programs with just a comlex.

Here are some more facts using the numbers you cited:
- There is a 50/484 chance of a DO matching EM with only COMLEX. That's 10.33%.
- There is a 127/875 chance of a DO matching IM with only COMLEX. That's 14.5%.

Was I inexact with my wording? Yes, you are right, and that's my bad. But at this point I consider it to basically be a technicality. I too know people personally who matched IM without taking the USMLE. In fact, one guy I know had absolutely mediocre scores on Levels 1 and 2 but really wowed his attendings during 3rd/4th year and networked well. That doesn't change the fact that, as a general rule, 10.3% and 14.5% are terrible numbers to bank your likelihood of matching on.

Note that I have never heard an attending reassure their patient by saying, "Don't worry, there's a 14.5% chance you won't die."

I am not "spreading SDN falsehoods" I am using the internal matching data that my school emails us about. As per their advice, IM and Peds used to be reliably COMLEX friendly but given the merger they recommend taking Step 1 at a minimum so long as you're fairly confident in passing. Needless to say if you are NOT confident you can pass then you should not take the USMLE. But no one here is debating that fact.

I have no dog in this fight and I'm not walking around trying to scare people. The game is the game.

 

[Lexdiamondz]

Which state is this? My SO is applying EM right now, only has comlex, and we never encountered a state with such a requirement: weird

I mean, you aren't likely to match in either DC, NY or Boston w just a Comlex, it's not a state level requirement so much as a competitive geographic region requirement

 

[hallowmann]

You are incorrect. The NRMP data actually show only data for students who took BOTH exams. It does not include data for students who took just Comlex.

For example for Family Medicine:
-page 72 shows 540 DOs taking comlex and matching, and page 74 shows those same 540 DOs taking USMLE and matching.
-According to American Academy of Family Physicians. 1,206 DOs matched into Family Medicine last year.
- Therefor 666 DOs applied to FM with just a comlex.
(Side note, is that 666 # a conspiracy? )

I'm confused, didn't you just prove my point? So rather than most of the data in charting outcomes referring to people who take both exams, in fact all of the data does.

Please read my post again, I said, "those people with >600 COMLEX and matched into specialties likely took both exams, so you're assuming the 600 COMLEX is what carried them into the ACGME specialty of their choice, when in fact it was probably that 220/230 USMLE that accompanied it."

Also, I think you misinterpreted the AAFP data. It actually says that 701 ACGME FM positions were filled by DOs (likely including the SOAP/scramble not just the match) and then as it clearly says when you combine this number with the AOA match data, a total of 1206 DOs placed (not matched) into Family Medicine (counting both ACGME and AOA programs). The NRMP report only counts those that matched into ACGME programs.

 

[NurWollen]

OP release your USMLE scores. You're golden for peds honestly. As far as that program with a 210 cutoff, there's no way to know if it's a hard cutoff or not. Each program reports that on FREIDA and whether it's a hard cutoff is going to be completely program dependent. But overall you are in excellent shape for matching peds.

 

[Sardonix]

OP release your USMLE scores. You're golden for peds honestly. As far as that program with a 210 cutoff, there's no way to know if it's a hard cutoff or not. Each program reports that on FREIDA and whether it's a hard cutoff is going to be completely program dependent. But overall you are in excellent shape for matching peds.

This is the kind of stuff I love to see on here.