Reporting a Cheater?

[owlegrad]

I am sorry it saddens you that I'm a pharm student because of my reasoning skills ...

It's alright, I will get over it.

And you guys are ridiculous I will guarantee you have cheated at some point in your life or heard a test question that was coming up. Regardless, cheaters eventually get no where. I just honestly think you are just upset because a kid could honestly get an A on something in 2 hrs that might've took you 2 days.I just think it's so funny that you guys care so much about someone cheating on a test, it's hilarious...

It's funny that you think everyone has cheated and that cheaters eventually get no where. So everyone gets nowhere?

What did I say that gave you the idea that I am upset about cheaters or that I even care? I get the feeling you are baiting me, because you are not even following the conversation. Cheating I don't care about so much, not understanding what cheating is bothers me, only because I would hope for a higher level of understanding from a pharmacy student. Cheating is wrong, but in the grand scheme of things - meh, it's not very high on my list of things I hate. Not understanding what cheating is or rationalizing it - that bothers me because it points to a larger problem (you can't really think it's only cheating if you get caught?). I am going to hold off on the name calling though, that wasn't nice of me.

On that note, congrats on the admission! I remember what an excitting time it is. Good luck!

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[rxlea]

I am sorry it saddens you that I'm a pharm student because of my reasoning skills but then we are both going for the same degree so apparently my reasoning skills seem to be intact and yes c/o 2015 but I don't plan on not going to pharm school... And you guys are ridiculous I will guarantee you have cheated at some point in your life or heard a test question that was coming up. Regardless, cheaters eventually get no where. I just honestly think you are just upset because a kid could honestly get an A on something in 2 hrs that might've took you 2 days. I just think it's so funny that you guys care so much about someone cheating on a test, it's hilarious...

This is the point of contention. Getting an A and getting an honest A are two different things... but in the world where everyone deserves A's, I guess it doesn't matter what one does to get there. Perhaps it's a generational difference. I am not sure. The point is cheating happens and I don't go around looking for it, but if I see someone cheating through an entire test, yes, I will say something. Furthermore, when a cheater cannot even admit to his/her own fault or admit that they didn't actually earn their grade, then it reflects that person's lack of integrity. I've seen it happen, BTW- a student adamantly denying cheating when there was hardcore evidence to the contrary.

And I am not quite sure what is so hilarious. I mean, are you laughing out loud like you would at a South Park episode? Because, that would be weird...

EDIT: and, yes, congrats on the acceptance

 

[IrunDaily]

Fair enough, both of you. Not baiting either. I know what cheating is, it angers me as well. I just take pride in the fact that I know the material enough to do well and they won't but would I ever judge a person or take their consequences into my hands? No, so I suppose I was just seeing if that's what you guys were saying you would do to the girl who had her notebook underneath her test.

 

[owlegrad]

Furthermore, when a cheater cannot even admit to his/her own fault or admit that they didn't actually earn their grade, then it reflects that person's lack of integrity. I've seen it happen, BTW- a student adamantly denying cheating when there was hardcore evidence to the contrary.

I hate to turn this into an echo chamber, but I agree with you 100% on this rxlea. It is very reveling I think when someone cannot even admit that something is cheating or can't own up to it (this is not directed at IrunDaily, it is meant in general). I can't really put it into words, but somehow it is much worse to me to try to rationalize unethical behavior than it is to just own up to it. Everyone makes mistakes, fails to live up to their own standards, etc. I have very little problem with that. But to outright deny the truth or twist it in nonsensical ways, well that just grinds my gears.

EDIT: and, yes, congrats on the acceptance

Do I detect the smallest hint of you being disingenuous?

 

[owlegrad]

Fair enough, both of you. Not baiting either. I know what cheating is, it angers me as well. I just take pride in the fact that I know the material enough to do well and they won't but would I ever judge a person or take their consequences into my hands? No, so I suppose I was just seeing if that's what you guys were saying you would do to the girl who had her notebook underneath her test.

Well that is pretty blatant, but I still wouldn't report. Thankfully all of my tests, exams, quizzes, etc. are carefully proctored and I would never need to. I do sign an honor statement to the effect that I would report cheating, so I guess I am a liar to boot.

The crux of my argument is that it is none of my business what other people do. I also do not believe the school has the power to force me to turn someone in either (obviously they disagree). That's one thing I do appreciate about my school - they don't make it easy to cheat, so I don't have to worry about it. If someone successfully cheated here I might go so far as to say they earned it. It wouldn't be easy.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I have seen people who turned in alleged cheaters get in trouble themselves.

I have seen people get in trouble because someone mistakenly or maliciously snitched them on when they weren't doing anything wrong.

Not all professors appreciate students who turn in alleged cheaters. I have had courses where "no tattling" was the rule.

Personally, I am not usually paying attention to what other people are doing. If two people were talking near me during an exam and it was disturbing my concentration, I would ask the professor to ask them to be quiet. That's about the extent of my involvement in what other people are doing.

In terms of "unfair advantage" or whatever people are complaining about on this thread... here are my thoughts. I do my best and I earn the grade that I earn. If someone cheats and gets two extra points - oh well. It's not like those two points were subtracted from my grade.

I'm not the classroom police or the local snitch. If the professors proctoring the exam aren't proactive enough to look around the room and be aware of what people are doing, it's not my job to scan the room for them. I'm there to take my exam, do my best and go home. That's it.

MYOB, I say.

 

[rxlea]

I have seen people who turned in alleged cheaters get in trouble themselves.

I have seen people get in trouble because someone mistakenly or maliciously snitched them on when they weren't doing anything wrong.

Not all professors appreciate students who turn in alleged cheaters. I have had courses where "no tattling" was the rule.

Personally, I am not usually paying attention to what other people are doing. If two people were talking near me during an exam and it was disturbing my concentration, I would ask the professor to ask them to be quiet. That's about the extent of my involvement in what other people are doing.

In terms of "unfair advantage" or whatever people are complaining about on this thread... here are my thoughts. I do my best and I earn the grade that I earn. If someone cheats and gets two extra points - oh well. It's not like those two points were subtracted from my grade.

I'm not the classroom police or the local snitch. If the professors proctoring the exam aren't proactive enough to look around the room and be aware of what people are doing, it's not my job to scan the room for them. I'm there to take my exam, do my best and go home. That's it.

MYOB, I say.

I was waiting for your post.

 

[SHC1984]

I'm quite suprised that NOBODY who has posted has EVER looked at ANYONE's papers, tests, etc. Everyone has that class where it's a divide and conquer to get the thing done. This is UNLESS you honestly are so anal about a class that matters not in highschool that you would actually REPORT a kid for cheating. Seriously guys, let's use a little common sense, unless it's affecting a curve or something who cares? People do what they got to do to pass and eventually whether they learned anything or not will turn up. People reporting are honestly just P/O'd that they had to study for a week to get the same grade as a kid who didn't. You see someone cheating and you are gonna tell? In basketball when a Ref misses a foul does it make the player who fouled a cheater? Nope, because the ref missed it and the game goes on. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it then does it make a sound? If a prof misses a cheater does it make the kid a cheater because the PROF didn't see it? Who knows, but I won't be the immature kid telling because they got a good grade, BECAUSE MY GRADE IS UNAFFECTED BY IT. I'm done.

I am just curious for those of you that think it is okay to cheat and steal.

If you witness a MURDER, will you turn the murder in? Or will you just look at it and say, "well it doesn't really effect me" and go on with your life?

I am just curious.

Cheaters suck b/c they are fake. They are not really A students but they want to the grade of an A student so they cheat their way to it. Just like fake Louis Vuitton bags suck. If you can't afford the real thing then buy a cheaper brand. I hate people that like to fake things out. Either you are that good and you earn things the HONEST way OR you don't get it. If you really are a C student then hell be a C student. If you really can't afford to buy a Louis Vuitton then carry a Coach bag. All I am saying is QUIT faking it! Cheaters/fake people suck. No matter how much you fake it you are NOT REAL, so you suck.

The End.

 

[SHC1984]

I have seen people who turned in alleged cheaters get in trouble themselves.

I have seen people get in trouble because someone mistakenly or maliciously snitched them on when they weren't doing anything wrong.

Not all professors appreciate students who turn in alleged cheaters. I have had courses where "no tattling" was the rule.

Personally, I am not usually paying attention to what other people are doing. If two people were talking near me during an exam and it was disturbing my concentration, I would ask the professor to ask them to be quiet. That's about the extent of my involvement in what other people are doing.

In terms of "unfair advantage" or whatever people are complaining about on this thread... here are my thoughts. I do my best and I earn the grade that I earn. If someone cheats and gets two extra points - oh well. It's not like those two points were subtracted from my grade.

I'm not the classroom police or the local snitch. If the professors proctoring the exam aren't proactive enough to look around the room and be aware of what people are doing, it's not my job to scan the room for them. I'm there to take my exam, do my best and go home. That's it.

MYOB, I say.

If that was the case, I would just send an annoymous email to the professor stating that I saw that person cheating. I will email the professor and tell him what I saw. I will use a annoymous email address. I usually prefer to stay annoymous in that kind of situation anyways.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I am just curious for those of you that think it is okay to cheat and steal.

If you witness a MURDER, will you turn the murder in? Or will you just look at it and say, "well it doesn't really effect me" and go on with your life?

I am just curious.

Cheaters suck b/c they are fake. They are not really A students but they want to the grade of an A student so they cheat their way to it. Just like fake Louis Vuitton bags suck. If you can't afford the real thing then buy a cheaper brand. I hate people that like to fake things out. Either you are that good and you earn things the HONEST way OR you don't get it. If you really are a C student then hell be a C student. If you really can't afford to buy a Louis Vuitton then carry a Coach bag. All I am saying is QUIT faking it! Cheaters/fake people suck. No matter how much you fake it you are NOT REAL, so you suck.

The End.

Are you KIDDING me? There is no comparision between cheating and stealing and MURDER, for god's sake. Are they REALLY all the same to you?

PS: I don't care if people carry fake Louis Vuitton bags.

 

[SHC1984]

Are you KIDDING me? There is no comparision between cheating and stealing and MURDER, for god's sake. Are they REALLY all the same to you?

PS: I don't care if people carry fake Louis Vuitton bags.

They are obviously NOT the same actions, but I would say that murders, theives and cheaters all have these things in common.

1) they are okay with breaking the rules

2) they are okay with hurting other people

3) they only care about themselves and will do ANYTHING (breaking rules or not) to get whatever they want.

4) they do not feel guilty about what they do, again they are OKAY with breaking the rules

5) they do not have morals

Even though the actions are different, they have very very very similar thoughts under their actions. When people steal, they think who cares about the rules I WANT the item NOW! When people cheat, they think who cares about the rules I WANT the A for free NOW! When people kill, they think who cares about the rules, I want that person I don't like dead NOW!

Again the actions are NOT the same, but the feelings are the same. The feelings are I don't give a damn...I just want things MY WAY, I don't care if I hurt someone or break the rules. I don't care about rules, I don't care about morals.

Thats how I see it.

 

[owlegrad]

Many people who witness true crimes (i.e. not cheaters but true criminals) never come forward. Why should they? Testifying in court is inconvenient and possibly dangerous (melodramatic perhaps, but I would worry about my safety in this situation). Does that make them a bad person?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I think if people get caught cheating, they should pay whatever consequences the school applies. But in general, someone else cheating on an exam does not hurt me. I do not think it is my responsibility to patrol the classroom for people cheating.

On the other hand, someone stealing my car hurts me financially. Someone breaking into my house and stealing my stuff hurts me emotionally and financially. The person who murdered my daughter hurt me and my husband and everyone who knew our daughter.

THAT is the difference. Stealing and murder deprive other people of their property and/or life. There are VICTIMS. So yes, I would call the police if I saw someone stealing or committing murder. Crimes like that hurt the victims and the community as a whole. They are not the same as cheating on a test in school. Not even close.

 

[Filler]

I am just curious for those of you that think it is okay to cheat and steal.

If you witness a MURDER, will you turn the murder in? Or will you just look at it and say, "well it doesn't really effect me" and go on with your life?

I am just curious.

Cheaters suck b/c they are fake.They are not really A students but they want to the grade of an A student so they cheat their way to it. Just like fake Louis Vuitton bags suck. If you can't afford the real thing then buy a cheaper brand. I hate people that like to fake things out. Either you are that good and you earn things the HONEST way OR you don't get it. If you really are a C student then hell be a C student. If you really can't afford to buy a Louis Vuitton then carry a Coach bag. All I am saying is QUIT faking it! Cheaters/fake people suck. No matter how much you fake it you are NOT REAL, so you suck.

The End.

LOL, wait a second, didn't you state a couple weeks ago that you gave a pharmacy school your credit card # so they could charge you for your deposit, but then you ended up calling the credit card company to tell them you "lost" your card so you could get out of paying?

 

[SHC1984]

I think if people get caught cheating, they should pay whatever consequences the school applies. But in general, someone else cheating on an exam does not hurt me. I do not think it is my responsibility to patrol the classroom for people cheating.

On the other hand, someone stealing my car hurts me financially. Someone breaking into my house and stealing my stuff hurts me emotionally and financially. The person who murdered my daughter hurt me and my husband and everyone who knew our daughter.

THAT is the difference. Stealing and murder deprive other people of their property and/or life. There are VICTIMS. So yes, I would call the police if I saw someone stealing or committing murder. Crimes like that hurt the victims and the community as a whole. They are not the same as cheating on a test in school. Not even close.

I would say ALL classes have some sort of curve to it. NO professor will give 100% of the students A(s). If a person cheated and made an A and bumped your grade down to a B. That doesn't hurt you? I think that is just as bad as stealing something from me IMO.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I would say ALL classes have some sort of curve to it. NO professor will give 100% of the students A(s). If a person cheated and made an A and bumped your grade down to a B. That doesn't hurt you? I think that is just as bad as stealing something from me IMO.

I have never had a class where anyone got their grade lowered by a "curve." Never. And it's not like people could cheat to the point that everyone in the class made 100%.

But even if it happened, getting a lower grade < having your car stolen <<<< being murdered/having a loved one murdered. If you think getting a lower grade (a B! Horrors!) is just as bad as being the victim of a crime, you're delusional and have obviously never been a crime victim. I have. Twice. I'll take the B, thanks.

 

[SHC1984]

LOL, wait a second, didn't you state a couple weeks ago that you gave a pharmacy school your credit card # so they could charge you for your deposit, but then you ended up calling the credit card company to tell them you "lost" your card so you could get out of paying?

That was with a pharmacy school that I really did not want to attend, but put a deposit just in case the school of my choice accepted me. I was okay with them charging me and they had 2 months to charge me. If they FORGOT to charge me, that is their lost. I changed my card b/c once I attend another school I would not want them (a school I do not even attend) to decide to charge me a year or two down the road. They most likely would NOT b/c I am almost positive that they just forgot to charge me, but I did it just in case.

That has nothing to do with pretending to being someone that you are NOT which is my POINT in this discussion. Cheaters are not really A students, so why in the hell would you want to "pretend" or "fake" it? If I personally am too stupid to keep my A(s), I would not try to "fake" it b/c it is just something I am NOT. All my Louis Vuitton bags are real b/c I don't see the point of faking it. Why in the world would people want to be someone they are NOT, is my point of this discussion. Either you are that good and you EARN your A(s) and your things or you are NOT. If you are NOT, then be content with your C(s). Why can't people do that? LOL...

 

[SHC1984]

I have never had a class where anyone got their grade lowered by a "curve." Never. And it's not like people could cheat to the point that everyone in the class made 100%.

But even if it happened, getting a lower grade < having your car stolen <<<< being murdered/having a loved one murdered.

In college if TOO many people made A(s) professor will curve up...meaning a 90-93 are now B+ and you now need a 94 or 95 for a A- and a 96 and up for a solid A.

If you were one of those that made a 90 you would have gotten a B+...if the average of the class is too high professor WILL curve up. That happens all the time. Maybe you just didn't notice?

If I work my ass off for a 93 and someone cheated and made a 100 and bump the curve up to a 93 being a B+ I would be piss.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

In college if TOO many people made A(s) professor will curve up...meaning a 90-93 are now B+ and you now need a 94 or 95 for a A- and a 96 and up for a solid A.

If you were one of those that made a 90 you would have gotten a B+...if the average of the class is too high professor WILL curve up. That happens all the time. Maybe you just didn't notice?

If I work my ass off for a 93 and someone cheated and made a 100 and bump the curve up to a 93 being a B+ I would be piss.

I have never seen this. And I've attended about five different colleges (working now on my third degree). I have also taught college courses. The grading scale on the syllabus is the one that is used for the class. Perhaps this happens sometimes, but I don't think it happens ALL the time.

But even if it does happen, well... I still don't think it's the end of the world. I'll just repost what I said before:

But even if it happened, getting a lower grade < having your car stolen <<<< being murdered/having a loved one murdered. If you think getting a lower grade (a B! Horrors!) is just as bad as being the victim of a crime, you're delusional and have obviously never been a crime victim. I have. Twice. I'll take the B, thanks.

 

[owlegrad]

I have never seen this. And I've attended about five different colleges (working now on my third degree). I have also taught college courses. The grading scale on the syllabus is the one that is used for the class. Perhaps this happens sometimes, but I don't think it happens ALL the time.

But even if it does happen, well... I still don't think it's the end of the world. I'll just repost what I said before:

We obviously do not attend schools of the same caliber as SHC, because I have never been in a class where a curse was used to lower anyone's grade. (EDIT: I meant curve, but I like it this way so I am not going to change it) I have only seen curves that raise the class averages, not lower it. I do not mean to say it never happens, only that I have never seen it.

 

[SHC1984]

That doesn't happen A LOT b/c most of the time a class don't have insanely high averages. A biology class with 200 people will most likely never be at a 90. This usually happens with upper level classes in which the class size is smaller. My biochemistry class had a curve like that....b/c the class was full of very smart people that do very well. So the class is curved and if there are a bunch of 96 and 97 etc and you ended up with a 90 and that was the LOWEST grade in the class...then you do NOT have an A. If people cheat in that class it woud affect your grade.

Honestly curving up and down don't happen a lot b/c MOST of the time the class is NORMAL with a 70 being the average. Have ANY of your guys ever had a class in which the average was 90+ and EVERYONE ENDED UP WITH AN A? I doubt it...b/c that most likely won't ever happen and if it does then I am sure the professor will curve up. Giving B+ to people with low 90s.

I think I rather have someone steal $100 out of my purse then to get a B+ instead of an A. And if I had a solid 4.0 I would rather have someone steal $1000+ out of my purse than to LOSE my 4.0 and get a 3.9+ something....but then again I might care about my grade a little bit more than some other people.

 

[owlegrad]

That doesn't happen A LOT b/c most of the time a class don't have insanely high averages. A biology class with 200 people will most likely never be at a 90. This usually happens with upper level classes in which the class size is smaller. My biochemistry class had a curve like that....b/c the class was full of very smart people that do very well. So the class is curved and if there are a bunch of 96 and 97 etc and you ended up with a 90 and that was the LOWEST grade in the class...then you do NOT have an A. If people cheat in that class it would affect your grade.

Honestly curving up and down don't happen a lot b/c MOST of the time the class is NORMAL with a 70 being the average. Have ANY of your guys ever had a class in which the average was 90+ and EVERYONE ENDED UP WITH AN A? I doubt it...b/c that most likely won't ever happen and if it does then I am sure the professor will curve up. Giving B+ to people with low 90s.

I think I rather have someone steal $100 out of my purse then to get a B+ instead of an A. And if I had a solid 4.0 I would rather have someone steal $1000+ out of my purse than to LOSE my 4.0 and get a 3.9+ something....but then again I might care about my grade a little bit more than some other people.

Are you sure that's called curving up? I mean I know I shouldn't argue with an asian about this, but I thought curving up meant giving out points to raise people's grades. That is how I have always heard curving up used. What you are saying makes sense (raising the threshold for an A) but that is not how I have heard that phrase used. Would curving down mean giving out A's at a lower threshold? I have never heard of curving down, so I am just curious.

 

[SHC1984]

Are you sure that's called curving up? I mean I know I shouldn't argue with an asian about this, but I thought curving up meant giving out points to raise people's grades. That is how I have always heard curving up used. What you are saying makes sense (raising the threshold for an A) but that is not how I have heard that phrase used. Would curving down mean giving out A's at a lower threshold? I have never heard of curving down, so I am just curious.

I am not 100% sure of the phrase. Maybe it's curving down for raising the threshold for an A and curving up for lowering it.

The point is a professor can only give out so many A(s). No professor can give the ENTIRE class an A no matter what, some people will be getting B, C and F. That will happen. If for some odd reason everyone made 90 and up then the curve will be changed. I think that is a good thing. Keeps grade inflation from occuring. An A is only valuble b/c very few people have it. If everyone got it, it would be worthless and no point in obtaining. Essentially you are in competition with other people. You will always be in competition with other people. LIFE IS A COMPETITION.

 

[owlegrad]

I am not 100% sure of the phrase. Maybe it's curving down for raising the threshold for an A and curving up for lowering it.

The point is a professor can only give out so many A(s). No professor can give the ENTIRE class an A no matter what, some people will be getting B, C and F. That will happen. If for some odd reason everyone made 90 and up then the curve will be changed.I think that is a good thing. Keeps grade inflation from occuring. An A is only valuble b/c very few people have it. If everyone got it, it would be worthless and no point in obtaining. Essentially you are in competition with other people. You will always be in competition with other people. LIFE IS A COMPETITION.

This I agree with completely. Grade inflation is terrible. And I do not consider myself a competitive type of person, but you are right - if you have any ambitions at all you come bet that you will be competing with other people for what you want. That's life.

 

[SHC1984]

This I agree with completely. Grade inflation is terrible. And I do not consider myself a competitive type of person, but you are right - if you have any ambitions at all you come bet that you will be competing with other people for what you want. That's life.

Yeah, pretty much and competition really makes life FUN. I think life would be very boring without competition. That's why I hate a socalist society and prefer pure capitalism...this is getting off topic though. LOL....


Point is don't be a cheater. Be who you REALLY are...don't fake anything.

 

[owlegrad]

Yeah, pretty much and competition really makes life FUN. I think life would be very boring without competition. That's why I hate a socalist society and prefer pure capitalism...this is getting off topic though. LOL....


Point is don't be a cheater. Be who you REALLY are...don't fake anything.

But what if what you really are is a fake? Oh no a paradox!

 

[All4MyDaughter]

SHC, your arguments don't make sense. First you said that "virtually ALL" classes have some sort of curve and if the average of a class is "too high" the professor will "curve up" and it "happens all the time." But when called on that ridonkulousness, you admit that "honestly curving up and down don't happen a lot" because blah blah blah. It seems obvious to me that you are just backpedaling to try to obscure the fact that you equated cheating on a test to murdering someone.

It's obvious that we just have different values and perhaps that's because you are from a wealthy family or something. I'm not sure. You'd rather lose 1000 bucks than get a 3.9 instead of a 4.0? Really? It actually upsets you that people carry designer knock-off bags? If these are the worst problems you have, then you should feel very fortunate to have such an easy life.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Should've called them to make sure. This was dishonest of you -- not very moral. Preaching about having morals would be a little hypocritical of you, but we're all guilty of hypocrisy at one point or another..

I've had classes where the bar was set higher than 90 for A's, so people did end up getting B's. It happens, and if someone cheated to get that A, it definitely affects me. The fact that "worse things could happen" is besides the point; I was affected by their cheating, and minding my own business could negatively affect me.

Was the bar set higher than 90 after the class was in progress because of a high class average? Or was it set higher than 90 from the beginning? I've had classes where the syllabus specified that an A was 93+ (or whatever) but I've never had the grading scale changed in the MIDDLE of a class. When I taught college, we were not permitted to modify the syllabus substantially after it was distributed during the first week of class.

I definitely think that anyone who is HARMED by someone else's cheating has a right to be mad. I just think that A) the majority of the time, cheating doesn't hurt others that much (outside of the exceptions that have been described) and B) it's ridiculous to equate cheating to stealing and murder (which is my major issue with SHC's argument).

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Agreed on SHC's argument.

For the class, it was understood that only a certain percentage of students could make A's. I really don't know too much about the rest of the grading scheme (this was years ago), but the TA told me this at the end of the semester: I got bumped down to a B because of a regrading issue, and he said that I would've gotten an A and bumped someone else down if he had regraded the assignment (which he promised to do). I don't mind that he didn't, but some of the people in there used old assignments from their friends that had previously taken the class, which the professor said would qualify as academic dishonesty. This definitely harmed me and is the point I'm proving, that sometimes not "tattling" on cheaters can affect you.

That being said, I agree with your philosophy. I'm a laid-back guy, so I didn't argue with the TA or tattle on people. That's just my nature. I really don't care if other people cheat. I mind my own business, and if I had really wanted that A, I shouldn't have had to rely on a regrade anyway.

Policy in that class has changed since then; since so many people cheated (I did not, btw) they started scanning the assignments and using some sort of matching system to identify the percentage of similar words to previous assignments. Pretty risky to cheat now.

Gotcha. At least in that scenario, you knew that there were only a limited number of A's and that there would be some "monkeying" with the distribution (for lack of a better word). Now that I think about it, I had a class like that in high school. The grades were fit to a "modified curve" where the class average was intended to be approximately 85. The majority of the class got B's with a few A's and a few C's for the bottom performers. It worked out to about 80% B, 10% A and C each. But no one's grade was lowered. It was just known that only the top 10% of students would receive an A. We all knew that the traditional grading scale (90/80/70/60) didn't apply. And it was all disclosed upfront.

As far as the scenario where the prof decides that "too many people are earning A's" and moves the grading scale during the middle of the course, I'm very skeptical that it happens often. Most colleges and universities have policies about modifying syllabus terms midsemester. Stuff like that generally has to be disclosed upfront so students aren't dealing with a moving target.

 

[SHC1984]

SHC, your arguments don't make sense. First you said that "virtually ALL" classes have some sort of curve and if the average of a class is "too high" the professor will "curve up" and it "happens all the time." But when called on that ridonkulousness, you admit that "honestly curving up and down don't happen a lot" because blah blah blah. It seems obvious to me that you are just backpedaling to try to obscure the fact that you equated cheating on a test to murdering someone.

It's obvious that we just have different values and perhaps that's because you are from a wealthy family or something. I'm not sure. You'd rather lose 1000 bucks than get a 3.9 instead of a 4.0? Really? It actually upsets you that people carry designer knock-off bags? If these are the worst problems you have, then you should feel very fortunate to have such an easy life.

I mean I am positive that ALL professors will NOT give out A(s) to all or most of the class...so if that happens that everyone or most people in a class makes A then the professor will curve the grades accordingly. That will happen all the time b/c again, do you know of a class in which the professor gives out A to most of the people in class? Almost ALL classes can only have a selected few students with A(s).

I mean that doesn't happen often b/c most classes don't have the majority of the students making A(s), but if that does happen the professors will correct the problem by changing the grading scale. I am sure 100% of the time professors can't give the entire class A(s), so 100% of the time they will change the grades accordingly, but it doesn't happen a lot b/c most classes don't have a lot of people making A(s). If that makes more sense.

To counter your argument, even if you made straight A(s) and the people that cheated didn't affect your grade. They are still de-valuing your work. If you work hard to make A(s), you deserve to be the very FEW people with the honor of showing that you have straight A(s). The people that fake their way to getting A(s) are de-valuing YOUR WORK by getting the same honor as you without the knowledge/work to show for it. The handbag argument was just an example to clarify my point. If you spent $1500 on a bag, you would not want someone spending $50 on a fake to show that they have the "same" bag as you. It is de-valuing YOUR item. You spent the money, you deserve to be the few that is carrying that item. Same with the grades. If you work for your A(s) you deserve to be the few with the honor/privilege to say that you got all A(s). People faking that is de-valuing your work.

Cheating is just as bad as stealing and WORST in some cases, I rather have people steal some of the stuff that I have then to bump my grades down. I only have ONE B+ my entire time in pharmacy school... and YES I will pay someone $1000 if they can change my grade and make it an A, that way I can have a solid 4.0 instead of 3.97! That has nothing to do with how wealthy you are brought up, it just important to me that I do well in school.

I agree in some cases murder is worst, if the murder happen to someone you know personally and care about a lot, that is a lot worst than losing money or a grade. But stealing and cheating I would argue that cheating is sometimes worst than stealing.

 

[Farmacist2011]

I swear some people are delusional about grades. I've made a ton of As in my life and when I get one, I'm happy for about 10 seconds and then I move on. Once that class is over, I never think about it again. If I had an A, I don't care if 1 other person had an A or half the class. Honestly I wouldn't even ask the professor cause I could care less. God, I can't even imagine someone feeling like they have so much "honor" for getting an A in school.

 

[R2pharmD2]

I mean I am positive that ALL professors will NOT give out A(s) to all or most of the class...so if that happens that everyone or most people in a class makes A then the professor will curve the grades accordingly. That will happen all the time b/c again, do you know of a class in which the professor gives out A to most of the people in class? Almost ALL classes can only have a selected few students with A(s).

False. I've been in plenty of classes where professors have said, and I quote (more or less), "If every single person gets better than a 90%, I'll give you all A's". That typically doesn't happen, but it does occasionally. I took a class where the professor chose who got in, and since it was a small class where he hand picked a group of generally outstanding students, most of the class did in fact get A's.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

False. I've been in plenty of classes where professors have said, and I quote (more or less), "If every single person gets better than a 90%, I'll give you all A's". That typically doesn't happen, but it does occasionally. I took a class where the professor chose who got in, and since it was a small class where he hand picked a group of generally outstanding students, most of the class did in fact get A's.

Yes, me too. In a number of my Honors seminar classes, I would bet that almost everyone earned an A. Some of them were hard as hell, but like you said - they are handpicked small groups of students and everyone works their ass off. In classes like that, the grades won't follow a normal distribution. Same thing in my graduate program. Most people earned As and a few got Bs. The program (education) was mainly focused on collaboration and group learning instead of rote memorization and test taking. Probably the people who earned the lower grades were the ones with poor written and verbal communication skills.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I swear some people are delusional about grades. I've made a ton of As in my life and when I get one, I'm happy for about 10 seconds and then I move on. Once that class is over, I never think about it again. If I had an A, I don't care if 1 other person had an A or half the class. Honestly I wouldn't even ask the professor cause I could care less. God, I can't even imagine someone feeling like they have so much "honor" for getting an A in school.

I also am not that focused on grades and being better than other people. I want to do well in school for myself, not because grades are some kind of status symbol (like a $1500 purse or something ). I don't care what other people's grades are and I never ask. I worry about myself and let other people worry about themselves.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I agree in some cases murder is worst

Only in SOME cases?!? You need help.