Request Advice with Scramble

[patch28]

So, I have put myself in a very unfortunate situation, and I need advice. I did not match into gas, but did match into a prelim year. I think this is specifically because I failed CK on my first try (211 on second) and only earned a 204 on step 1. To compound my failure, I'm almost certain that my prelim year is a surgery one. Do yall think I have ANY chance of making it into an anesthesiology position with this black mark on me? If not, am I doomed to doing a prelim GS then a prelim medicine for whatever specialty I end up having to take? Any words of wisdom or strategies for the scramble? I'm top 50% of my class, and I failed because a LOT happened during my study month, and, stupidly, I took the test anyway, believing people who said it was easier than step 1. Thank you for the help.

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[cfdavid]

So, I have put myself in a very unfortunate situation, and I need advice. I did not match into gas, but did match into a prelim year. I think this is specifically because I failed CK on my first try (211 on second) and only earned a 204 on step 1. To compound my failure, I'm almost certain that my prelim year is a surgery one. Do yall think I have ANY chance of making it into an anesthesiology position with this black mark on me? If not, am I doomed to doing a prelim GS then a prelim medicine for whatever specialty I end up having to take? Any words of wisdom or strategies for the scramble? I'm top 50% of my class, and I failed because a LOT happened during my study month, and, stupidly, I took the test anyway, believing people who said it was easier than step 1. Thank you for the help.

Hey man. First, keep in perspective that you're still going to be a physician. Second, whether you end up in gas or not, REALLY isn't the end of the world. Just keep this in mind.

Regarding matching for 2011, I THOUGHT (can others please substantiate???) that all programs were required to go categorical by 2012..... Thus, by next year, I have to think that advanced programs with be in the gross minority (if this is true what I've been told).

SO, it's going to be a serious uphill battle to land a position given that programs will know you didn't match this year. However, IF you reapply to lower-tier programs and can still get an away elective (at a lower-tier program), then go there and kick as.s.

That being said, as a word of confidence, you can do the prelim surgery, learn a ton about surgery (even if you don't want to do it), go into IM, and have a good life. It's not the end of the world.

Good luck.

 

[md2010sgu]

Uh...sorry to hear this my friend. All I can say is have your application ready to be faxed/emailed and get that phone list ready of potential places to call (placed you applied, and places that have historically not filled in the past). Then compile that list, and get ready to go at 11:30 am tomorrow, when you get the official list.

Your scores are not looking great, but who knows right? It's better to have tried to scramble and won than to have never scrambled at all!
Best of luck! WOrk hard!

 

[pgy13]

Hey man. First, keep in perspective that you're still going to be a physician. Second, whether you end up in gas or not, REALLY isn't the end of the world. Just keep this in mind.

Regarding matching for 2011, I THOUGHT (can others please substantiate???) that all programs were required to go categorical by 2012..... Thus, by next year, I have to think that advanced programs with be in the gross minority (if this is true what I've been told).

SO, it's going to be a serious uphill battle to land a position given that programs will know you didn't match this year. However, IF you reapply to lower-tier programs and can still get an away elective (at a lower-tier program), then go there and kick as.s.

That being said, as a word of confidence, you can do the prelim surgery, learn a ton about surgery (even if you don't want to do it), go into IM, and have a good life. It's not the end of the world.

Good luck.

There is no requirement that all programs be categorical, they tried to institute that but Chairs at the time had a major fit. So now it's just encouraged.

 

[cfdavid]

There is no requirement that all programs be categorical, they tried to institute that but Chairs at the time had a major fit. So now it's just encouraged.

Thanks for the confirmation/clarification. Wasn't sure, and heard lots of "rumors" during the interview season.

 

[Camel]

Well, based upon the regional statistics, there are 30 or so unfilled positions for PGY2. I don't know how many unmatched anesthesiology applicants there are, but there are 56 total positions b/w PGY1 and 2 (that seems to be a lot). Best of luck to you!

 

[darkmansaad]

I also need advice....carib student here with 99/99 on my steps, pretty good LOR's. I only got a one year program (surgery prelim that i ranked as backups to gas, big name program) and am hoping to apply for one of the pgy2 spots. Is scramble also stacked against an IMG like myself or do I just send in my ERAS apps like normal tomorrow?

And is it necessary to fax/call if I am applying via ERAS like I was instructed to?

Thanks in advance, its been a rough day. Hopefully worst case I do a surgery prelim and apply again, does anyone know if it helps to apply again from a big name (Ivy league) prelim?

 

[md2010sgu]

I also need advice....carib student here with 99/99 on my steps, pretty good LOR's. I only got a one year program (surgery prelim that i ranked as backups to gas, big name program) and am hoping to apply for one of the pgy2 spots. Is scramble also stacked against an IMG like myself or do I just send in my ERAS apps like normal tomorrow?

And is it necessary to fax/call if I am applying via ERAS like I was instructed to?

Thanks in advance, its been a rough day. Hopefully worst case I do a surgery prelim and apply again, does anyone know if it helps to apply again from a big name (Ivy league) prelim?

Damn dude... that sucks. I'm a carib myself...if I were you scramble hardcore tomorrow. In fact, I guarantee you that SUNY downstate has open spots, and if you show up to them tomorrow at their doorstep (after the list is open) they will sign you on the spot. The program coordinator said they did this for 2 people who showed up at their doorstep last year b/c they had lots of unmatched spots.

I do think though that if you were at a IV league surgery prelim place, and you impressed the hell out of everyone, you would get mad props and a good calls from big time people. Case in example... those 2 Stanford spots that suddenly opened up in Nov. 2009 were grabbed up both by IMG's!!! THey were at UCSF east bay doing surgery prelim!!!! They weren't all that stellar in terms of step 1 scores either. Take this with a grain of salt though, b/c I don't know them personally, but I know the person who told me about it knows them.

 

[ucla41]

Well, based upon the regional statistics, there are 30 or so unfilled positions for PGY2. I don't know how many unmatched anesthesiology applicants there are, but there are 56 total positions b/w PGY1 and 2 (that seems to be a lot). Best of luck to you!

gonna be a crazy day...you'd think that with 14 anesthesia ranks you'd be safe huh? its so unreal

 

[md2010sgu]

gonna be a crazy day...you'd think that with 14 anesthesia ranks you'd be safe huh? its so unreal

Dude for real!?!? You ranked 14 and didn't match?!?!!?
What programs were you ranking? Step scores?

 

[karizma098]

wow, darkmansaad

99/99 and no match?

i understand that it's tougher for IMG's to match...but seriously? did you not apply to a lot of programs? i'm at a DO school, and have friends here and at carrib schools and most of them matched with lower stats..

 

[darkmansaad]

I have no idea...its a bad dream really. I plan on sitting around and making phone calls all day, but does anyone have any other advice...seem to be quite a few open spots in the Northeast but not sure how friendly they are to IMGs...

 

[shift_roro]

I have no idea...its a bad dream really. I plan on sitting around and making phone calls all day, but does anyone have any other advice...seem to be quite a few open spots in the Northeast but not sure how friendly they are to IMGs...

At this stage, I think any unfilled program would be enthused to get a candidate with those amazing USMLE scores. Good luck!

 

[maceo]

I have no idea...its a bad dream really. I plan on sitting around and making phone calls all day, but does anyone have any other advice...seem to be quite a few open spots in the Northeast but not sure how friendly they are to IMGs...

just do medicine its only 3 years and you can have a great job being a hospitalist 7 days on and 7 days off

 

[ucla41]

Dude for real!?!? You ranked 14 and didn't match?!?!!?
What programs were you ranking? Step scores?

I had average scores....got 20+ interview offers and went on half of them...they were all solid programs...it is truly crazy...

 

[darkmansaad]

At this stage, I think any unfilled program would be enthused to get a candidate with those amazing USMLE scores. Good luck!

I really hope so...all I want is someone to look at my app at this point. Thanks for the kind words everyone, any further advice is always appreciated....

 

[RussianJoo]

wow i am really shocked to hear this stuff.. I would totally expect you guys to match... good luck in the scramble. at least there are 56 spots left.. which seems kind of weird since there were only 14 EM spots left, 6 Radiology spots, and 2 Gen. Surgery spots. I guess the popularity of anesthesia has reached it's peak last year? or did programs get too cocky and didn't rank as many people as they should have?


best of luck to you..



i would suggest making pdf copies of your applications and emailing them as attachments, and calling places, faxing is a waste of time and won't get you any results, in my opinion.

 

[Scaredshizzles]

wow i am really shocked to hear this stuff.. I would totally expect you guys to match... good luck in the scramble. at least there are 56 spots left.. which seems kind of weird since there were only 14 EM spots left, 6 Radiology spots, and 2 Gen. Surgery spots. I guess the popularity of anesthesia has reached it's peak last year? or did programs get too cocky and didn't rank as many people as they should have?


best of luck to you..



i would suggest making pdf copies of your applications and emailing them as attachments, and calling places, faxing is a waste of time and won't get you any results, in my opinion.

Very surprised by the number of unfilled spots...Mainly in the northeast, I wonder if a large sized program perhaps messed up on sending in their rank list.

 

[md2010sgu]

I had average scores....got 20+ interview offers and went on half of them...they were all solid programs...it is truly crazy...

Aww man... my thoughts go out to you... I hope things turn out good for you over the next few days. Hopefully, the MS3's reading this thread see this and realize they better interview a lot.

Let us know how things turn out

 

[Chloroform4Life]

http://www.nrmp.org/res_match/about_res/impact.html
http://www.nrmp.org/data/index.html

Dude, statistically, the average number of ROL per program have been increasing each year. I doubt anesthesia PDs are cocky enough to be decreasing their ROL compared to the rest of the medical specialties, especially with all the uncertainty revolving around the field right now.

Also, if you have 14 or more on your rank list, your chance of matching should be 99.5% from 2009 data. But this data don't mean much to you if you're that 1/200.

 

[Sapdaddy]

wow i am really shocked to hear this stuff.. I would totally expect you guys to match... good luck in the scramble. at least there are 56 spots left.. which seems kind of weird since there were only 14 EM spots left, 6 Radiology spots, and 2 Gen. Surgery spots. I guess the popularity of anesthesia has reached it's peak last year? or did programs get too cocky and didn't rank as many people as they should have?


best of luck to you..



i would suggest making pdf copies of your applications and emailing them as attachments, and calling places, faxing is a waste of time and won't get you any results, in my opinion.

some programs only rank the applicants they really liked on interview and assume that they will get a high-caliber applicant on a scramble. there are some people scrambling because they tried for only a specific tier of program or specific region and got locked out. that's why these programs got 300 decent applicants yesterday for 2 unfilled spots. from the point of view of the program, it's not a bad situation to be in.

btw, this is a strategy lifted straight from the dermatology program playbook, and it works well for some anesthesia programs. however, with this strategy the best programs on "the coasts" would be shooting themselves in the foot and the worst programs would be risking not filling their spots. but, it works for the "mid-major" residency programs as far as class size, location, and prestige.

 

[RussianJoo]

some programs only rank the applicants they really liked on interview and assume that they will get a high-caliber applicant on a scramble. there are some people scrambling because they tried for only a specific tier of program or specific region and got locked out. that's why these programs got 300 decent applicants yesterday for 2 unfilled spots. from the point of view of the program, it's not a bad situation to be in.

btw, this is a strategy lifted straight from the dermatology program playbook, and it works well for some anesthesia programs. however, with this strategy the best programs on "the coasts" would be shooting themselves in the foot and the worst programs would be risking not filling their spots. but, it works for the "mid-major" residency programs as far as class size, location, and prestige.

so why don't other specialties play this game? seems like if you wanted ENT,Ortho, Ophtho or Neurosurg you'd want to scramble into Gen Surg. cause those are surgical specialties, but at the same time Gen Surg had only 2 unfilled spots this year, wouldn't those programs want to hold out for those who didn't match into one of the competitive surgical sub-specialties?

 

[Snap]

So, I have put myself in a very unfortunate situation, and I need advice. I did not match into gas, but did match into a prelim year. I think this is specifically because I failed CK on my first try (211 on second) and only earned a 204 on step 1. To compound my failure, I'm almost certain that my prelim year is a surgery one. Do yall think I have ANY chance of making it into an anesthesiology position with this black mark on me? If not, am I doomed to doing a prelim GS then a prelim medicine for whatever specialty I end up having to take? Any words of wisdom or strategies for the scramble? I'm top 50% of my class, and I failed because a LOT happened during my study month, and, stupidly, I took the test anyway, believing people who said it was easier than step 1. Thank you for the help.

Hey man, I'm sorry to hear of your misfortune. About a year ago I was in your shoes. I passed my step exams on initial attempts but my scores were nothing to brag about. I didn't match in anesthesiology and wound up scrabbling into a surgical prelim spot. I'm guessing you've already scrambled into at least a prelim spot at the time of this post.

My advice to you is this: If you wanna be an anesthesiologist stick to your guns and work hard during your prelim year as a resident and as a salesman. You've gotta sell yourself at this point. NETWORK LIKE CRAZY. Make a form email and add the name of the current program director and that program to make each email unique and explain your situation. Email every program in the country. 1 in 10 will write back if your lucky. But be persistent! Some programs keep spots open for this reason, and for other residents that see the light and wanna convert. inquire about these positions initially, and your interest in their program for the upcoming match (2011). If you wind up having to go through the ERAS application again, email or call the program coordinators with updates regarding your application. Apply to more programs you did the first time around. Get letters of recommendation from attendings you work with as an intern. And finally, have a back up plan, pick a different specialty and interview in that, just in case.

It will make for an expensive and hectic intern year. But its worth it in the end.

Like I said I was in your shoes. I sent the emails, applied via ERAS and went on anesthesiology and internal medicine interviews. I had completed all my interviews in anesthesiology and medicine. A few of the anesthesiology programs that had out of match spots had already told me I was not selected. Then a day after i got shot down by my "best chance out of match spot" I got a phone call from a PD that I had interviewed with for a matched position. They were expanding the program by one spot, and I got it.

Hang in there, and like others had said. You're going to be an M.D. at the end of all this. It's a bad day but not the end of the world.

If you have any other Q's message me and I'll try not to ramble so much. Good luck

 

[Sapdaddy]

so why don't other specialties play this game? seems like if you wanted ENT,Ortho, Ophtho or Neurosurg you'd want to scramble into Gen Surg. cause those are surgical specialties, but at the same time Gen Surg had only 2 unfilled spots this year, wouldn't those programs want to hold out for those who didn't match into one of the competitive surgical sub-specialties?

you still might rank at least 5x more candidates than available spots, so it is likely that the spots will fill up and you want to match all the ones you rank. but you can be picky and hope for good candidates in the scramble instead of ranking everyone, including the ones you don't really like from the interview. this is assuming that your program is not in a competitive region, then you might get some good ones from the scramble who are now way more willing to relocate than before.

it's definitely a gamble, so if the match is "the flop", then the scramble is "the river". ever hope to land a flush on the river? sometimes it works, lots of times not.

 

[Chloroform4Life]

but you can be picky and hope for good candidates in the scramble instead of ranking everyone, including the ones you don't really like from the interview.

So the bottom line is to be likable in your interview, or else the PD would rather have a scrambler.

 

[Sapdaddy]

So the bottom line is to be likable in your interview, or else the PD would rather have a scrambler.

i think this is important to PD's in small programs because that PD is then more likely to work with you on any given day, so he/she cares more about personality. but every resident selection committee will behave differently (depending on who's running it) from year to year.

 

[RussianJoo]

so where any of guys able to scramble into a spot? i would think with 56 spots at least one would. especially if you're in the NYC area, there were like 4 or 5 places with in driving distance that went unfilled.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

Will the # of US seniors (or even US-IMGs) that did not match, and will be trying for the 2011 match, have significant impact on the level of competitiveness for anesthesiology in the 2011 match for the rest of us soon to be seniors vying for those spots?

 

[neutro]

so where any of guys able to scramble into a spot? i would think with 56 spots at least one would. especially if you're in the NYC area, there were like 4 or 5 places with in driving distance that went unfilled.

i scrambled into univ. toledo.

 

[RussianJoo]

i scrambled into univ. toledo.

Congrats!!

 

[wmc24]

anyone know which programs didnt fill initially?

 

[chaucer]

anyone know which programs didnt fill initially?

The program data is available on NRMP under "My Reports."

 

[neutro]

Congrats!!

thanks.

when they called me and after I accepted it, it was the greatest feeling ever...i felt weak in my knees and had to sit down.

 

[shift_roro]

anyone know which programs didnt fill initially?

Just took a look through the results, and was very surprised by some of the unfilled programs. Here are the ones for the Northeast:

(unfilled spots / total)

PGY2:
5/18 Yale
3/5 UConn
3/7 UMaryland
2/2 UMass
2/9 UMDNJ-RWJ
1/3 Downstate
1/6 Temple

PGY1:
11/15 Downstate
3/8 Buffalo
2/4 UMass

 

[neutro]

there were 26 categorical spots for anesthesia and 30 pgy2 spots when the scramble opened.
dont remember for advanced, but for categorical, there were 7 programs that offered those 26 spots...

most shocking of that was SUNY DOWNSTATE...which had 11 spots.

its not because anesthesia wasnt competitive this year, its because programs got wayyyyyyyyyyy too cocky and didnt rank that many people...and ended up paying the price of not getting filled...

5/18 unfilled at yale?! does that even make any sense otherwise?
lol...

 

[heathermed]

Just took a look through the results, and was very surprised by some of the unfilled programs. Here are the ones for the Northeast:

(unfilled spots / total)

PGY2:
5/18 Yale
3/5 UConn
3/7 UMaryland
2/2 UMass
2/9 UMDNJ-RWJ
1/3 Downstate
1/6 Temple

PGY1:
11/15 Downstate
3/8 Buffalo
2/4 UMass

How is this possible? is the program that bad??? Did something happen here that medical students should know about?

 

[neutro]

How is this possible? is the program that bad??? Did something happen here that medical students should know about?

i dont think that the program is bad...its just that they got too cocky.

 

[wmc24]

i dont think that the program is bad...its just that they got too cocky.

i think its a great program, but i didnt get an interview and attend a near by school. got 230 usmle steps and above average comlex (cant remember my exact score). i would have loved to interview there, but like i said, was rejected QUICKLY. same with another couple friends from other DO schools. i would have ranked it high on my ROL.

 

[neutro]

i think its a great program, but i didnt get an interview and attend a near by school. got 230 usmle steps and above average comlex (cant remember my exact score). i would have loved to interview there, but like i said, was rejected QUICKLY. same with another couple friends from other DO schools. i would have ranked it high on my ROL.

it is indeed a great program...and i applied there too, but got rejected...
on scramble day, they had 11 spots available, i thought of personally going there and interviewing in person on march 16...but thankfully, univ of toledo called me and offered me a job.

 

[yasha83]

Just took a look through the results, and was very surprised by some of the unfilled programs. Here are the ones for the Northeast:

(unfilled spots / total)

PGY2:
5/18 Yale
3/5 UConn
3/7 UMaryland
2/2 UMass
2/9 UMDNJ-RWJ
1/3 Downstate
1/6 Temple

PGY1:
11/15 Downstate
3/8 Buffalo
2/4 UMass

wow. just...wow.

 

[DScully]

i dont think that the program is bad...its just that they got too cocky.

I also think they got too cocky this year. When you have 11 out of 15 spots unfilled, there is something seriously wrong with your list. From what I was told, they were interviewing people from Columbia, NYU, etc. So go figure.