Research Expectations of Clinical Faculty at “Big Name” Institutions

[KdotLB]

Hello everyone,

Question that is not specialty specific and so I thought it would be best to post here instead of a physician/resident forum. Feel free to redirect to another locale if necessary.

Obviously the “research track” academicians at places like Harvard, Yale, JHU, Duke, etc are focused on research bc they have funding, whether it be translational, clinical, or bench. What about the more clinician track physicians at these institutions? The bedside education type. Do they have expectations, formal or informal, as to how much research output they have? Do they typically have any protected time for this or is their protected time for research trending downward currently? Does this expectation decrease if you leave the “top tier” and look at a more mid level academic institution?

I’m sure this can be specialty specific, but is there a generalization across specialties that can be made?


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[SpecializedSurgeon]

Probably less specialty specific and more institution specific.

Most places will expect some research out of everyone, but others will just make sure it fits with whatever track you are on. My institution (a “big name”) has specific tracks for those of us that mainly teach at bedside vs mainly do research and a couple of steps in between. As long as you excel in the part that dominates your track (eg if you are an educator, your teaching scores must be high) then you are doing what they expect and this eventually eligible for promotion. That said, the researchers are expected to teach some, and the clinicians are expected to contribute some research.

Protected time is fake for everyone, just to comment on that.

 

[sloop]

I’m a resident at one of the institutions on your list and I can tell you that at my institution there are several different promotion pathways for faculty. One of them is your typical clinician scientist track, which obviously requires research. The others include education and program building roles, etc. The one that on its face would appear to involve the least research is something like “Clinician of Distinction” but in practice people who get promoted on this path basically have to write about whatever excellent work they are doing (this is part of how they distinguish themselves).

This said, at my institution, there is some basic level of research required for an associate professor position and more research is required for promotion, but if you were just cool with chilling out without being promoted, as long as you can support your own salary (which is usually clinical and most people can) you won’t be fired. You just won’t be promoted.

 

[IlDestriero]

We have several tracks.
One is tenure track, generally hard core researchers with little or no clinical time and high publication requirements.
One is essentially an adjunct position, though it’s not really. They have no research or education requirements, but are expected to carry out the clinical mission. This is a newer track and it’s not clear to me what the deal is. They’re not real faculty, can’t vote in the faculty senate, etc. they also have different benefits. They’re like pseudo faculty. I don’t know anyone on that track.
Then there are the 2 that most people are on in the hospital.
One is academic and clinical and the other is education and clinical.
They both require clinical excellence. The academic one has significant publication requirements and is an up or out arrangement.
The education one requires high teaching scores to advance as well as evidence of a regional or national reputation. No publish or perish here. You could retire as an assistant professor.
How much time you get to engage in research,admin, education, etc. is all negotiable.
We definitely have real protected time. It varies from ~2 Days a month to 15 or even more.
Promotion requirements are absolutely easier outside of the big name programs. In fact the biggest names seem to have a gear measuring contest every few years and make it harder and harder to promote while no name places will hand out promotions to almost anyone on almost time alone. (In the non tenure tracks)

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Il Destriero

 

[omn]

I’m a resident at one of the institutions on your list and I can tell you that at my institution there are several different promotion pathways for faculty. One of them is your typical clinician scientist track, which obviously requires research. The others include education and program building roles, etc. The one that on its face would appear to involve the least research is something like “Clinician of Distinction” but in practice people who get promoted on this path basically have to write about whatever excellent work they are doing (this is part of how they distinguish themselves).

This said, at my institution, there is some basic level of research required for an associate professor position and more research is required for promotion, but if you were just cool with chilling out without being promoted, as long as you can support your own salary (which is usually clinical and most people can) you won’t be fired. You just won’t be promoted.

... being promoted means increase in your compensation by the medical university? what does being promoted mean, see, this doesn't make sense...

What if you are a big source of grant dollars and important research? doesn't make sense... are you talking about job security at a major research university... What is your point? Sounds like you want to only dabble in research but somehow still be respected for groundbreaking science... What is that? .. maybe ask about the pathways to a "super-adjunct" position... But you probably know the answer to that...

i know.. You are imagining how to work a "part-time Medical consultant"-type to position to, say, NASA .. it don't take up much time, still free to care for patients and manage your thriving practice which takes you to multiple offices all over the city... Come on.. u know what this is.... Will you need a pilots license with that?

 

[omn]

Probably less specialty specific and more institution specific.

Most places will expect some research out of everyone, but others will just make sure it fits with whatever track you are on. My institution (a “big name”) has specific tracks for those of us that mainly teach at bedside vs mainly do research and a couple of steps in between. As long as you excel in the part that dominates your track (eg if you are an educator, your teaching scores must be high) then you are doing what they expect and this eventually eligible for promotion. That said, the researchers are expected to teach some, and the clinicians are expected to contribute some research.

Protected time is fake for everyone, just to comment on that.

"protected time" for your research at NASA might be something

 

[omn]

Hello everyone,

Question that is not specialty specific and so I thought it would be best to post here instead of a physician/resident forum. Feel free to redirect to another locale if necessary.

Obviously the “research track” academicians at places like Harvard, Yale, JHU, Duke, etc are focused on research bc they have funding, whether it be translational, clinical, or bench. What about the more clinician track physicians at these institutions? The bedside education type. Do they have expectations, formal or informal, as to how much research output they have? Do they typically have any protected time for this or is their protected time for research trending downward currently? Does this expectation decrease if you leave the “top tier” and look at a more mid level academic institution?

I’m sure this can be specialty specific, but is there a generalization across specialties that can be made?


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... what is a "clinician-track position"? are you making a categories for something that doesn't actually exist?

Is this post about responsibilities for university medical research as a member of faculty?

Does it have something to do with compensation? or is it a post from a current or recent medical graduate (a "young professional") who wants to know how one gains "recognition" at a university without doing research ?

(( admittedly, I guess I don't understand what "clinical faculty" means, and how that APPLIES to anything.. this sounds like a name given to faculty positions at universities to try to make the job sound more interesting and to highlight that it is NOT TENURE-TRACK... I'm just going to understand this as "non-tenure-track" with varying degrees of research responsibility, left to be determined )).

I didn't mean to be insulting by implying that you were talking about one of their "Super-Adjunct Positions"... very popular since the 1980's

 

[sloop]

... being promoted means increase in your compensation by the medical university? what does being promoted mean, see, this doesn't make sense...

What if you are a big source of grant dollars and important research? doesn't make sense... are you talking about job security at a major research university... What is your point? Sounds like you want to only dabble in research but somehow still be respected for groundbreaking science... What is that? .. maybe ask about the pathways to a "super-adjunct" position... But you probably know the answer to that...

i know.. You are imagining how to work a "part-time Medical consultant"-type to position to, say, NASA .. it don't take up much time, still free to care for patients and manage your thriving practice which takes you to multiple offices all over the city... Come on.. u know what this is.... Will you need a pilots license with that?

I’m not even sure what you’re trying to say in half of this post.

Being promoted means being given another academic position with higher status, better compensation, better perks including more protected time for whatever your interests are, etc. There are differences between associate, assistant, and full professor in compensation, perks and job responsibilities.

I am not “wanting” or “imagining” anything. I’m telling you how the academic promotion tracks work at my institution.

 

[SpecializedSurgeon]

"protected time" for your research at NASA might be something

hmm?

 

[Doctor-S]

What about the more clinician track physicians at these institutions? The bedside education type. Do they have expectations, formal or informal, as to how much research output they have? Do they typically have any protected time for this or is their protected time for research trending downward currently? Does this expectation decrease if you leave the “top tier” and look at a more mid level academic institution?

I’m sure this can be specialty specific, but is there a generalization across specialties that can be made?

In addition to the "tenure track academic" categories, my institution provides the following "clinical" tracks:

1. Academic Clinician. Non-tenured clinical faculty members who engage in research time and clinical time (e.g., 30% of their time might be devoted to research; and the rest of their time may be devoted to clinical care). Some of them may also have grant money.

Academic clinicians are expected to make contributions to education, research, and clinical care. It is expected that the quality and quantity of the contributions in each of these areas will vary, depending on the faculty member’s professional interests.

These individuals might begin their academic career as a "clinical instructor" and then advance through multiple tracks (e.g., clinical instructor to clinical assistant professor, to clinical associate professor, to clinical professor).

2. Clinician-Educator. These are faculty who show excellence in their area of expertise (e.g., as an academic clinician and/or an educator).

They are not required to participate in clinical research; and many of them do not want to be involved in research. They often teach residents and fellows. Many clinician-educators also present lectures/cases at professional conferences, write articles, engage in some research (if they so choose), mentor others, etc.

Each career path will have its own separate requirements related to promotion and protected time (although the titles themselves, protected time and promotion requirements may differ from school to school).