Research year for psych

[LeaveNoTrace]

Hey all. I am a US MD student in my 4th year. All pass for my clinical rotations. No research. Was on executive board for a medical school club. Haven't taken Step 2 yet.

Red flags: Pass on Peds Sub-I.

I am looking to match psychiatry; I'd be happy at a community psych program in rural Nebraska. Would a research year allow me to demonstrate interest in psychiatry and improve my chances of matching psych?

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[GoSpursGo]

What have you done up to this point to make connections within the psych program at your home school, and what do they think?

It is very late in the game to try and squeeze in a research year unless you have a potential mentor and project lined up.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

What have you done up to this point to make connections within the psych program at your home school, and what do they think?

It is very late in the game to try and squeeze in a research year unless you have a potential mentor and project lined up.

Unfortunately my home school is less than enthusiastic about me. As for a research year, I have a potential mentor lined up who I've already discussed projects with. I could set up a meeting with him and probably have something within a week or two.

 

[collegestud2013]

Hey all. I am a US MD student in my 4th year. All pass for my clinical rotations. No research. Was on executive board for a medical school club. Haven't taken Step 2 yet.

Red flags: Pass on Peds Sub-I.

I am looking to match psychiatry; I'd be happy at a community psych program in rural Nebraska. Would a research year allow me to demonstrate interest in psychiatry and improve my chances of matching psych?

A research year would likely be a waste of time for psych, which isn't a research heavy specialty at all. You would be missing out on a year of attending salary while not really increasing your chances of matching by much. Especially if your goal is to match into a community program. Having strong LORs from you Psych rotations and applying broadly will be much more important to matching at a community Psych program.

 

[NonNocere]

Hey all. I am a US MD student in my 4th year. All pass for my clinical rotations. No research. Was on executive board for a medical school club. Haven't taken Step 2 yet.

Red flags: Pass on Peds Sub-I.

I am looking to match psychiatry; I'd be happy at a community psych program in rural Nebraska. Would a research year allow me to demonstrate interest in psychiatry and improve my chances of matching psych?

How is a pass on peds sub-i a red flag?
I wouldn't recommend a research year after MS4 before Psych PGY-1. Apply into Psych, match, and begin your PGY-1 year. Good luck.

 

[sloop]

Unless there is something terrible about your application that you completely neglected to tell us, I have no idea why a US MD student without any failures wouldn’t be able to match a rural community psych program in Nebraska.

From what you said, I don’t think there’s any reason to do a research year.

 

[sloop]

Unfortunately my home school is less than enthusiastic about me.

Why? Given that you are considering the need to do a research year to match a community psych program in rural Nebraska with an otherwise fine application, I’m wondering if there is a problem that you’re not telling us about.

 

[djiboutiman]

Does your application show any previous interest in Psychiatry? It tends to be a field that values commitment to the specialty very highly (see p.198). If you can squeeze in a couple of away rotations and do well in them before applying that might help a lot and show commitment.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

If you aren’t interested in research, why not just apply to 200 residencies?

Financially, it would make much more sense than a research year.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unless there is something terrible about your application that you completely neglected to tell us, I have no idea why a US MD student without any failures wouldn’t be able to match a rural community psych program in Nebraska.

Unclear. According to the recently released Charting Outcomes, the match rate for psych this year was 89.6%, making it from my brief perusal the most competitive non-surgical/non-derm specialty: Charting Outcomes of the Match (2022) . How the change to P/F step 1 will change things is anyone's guess, but somebody is going to be in that bottom 10%. All pass in clinical rotations isn't a red flag, but I would argue that getting a pass--not even HIGH pass--in your sub-I *is* unusual, as schools tend to try and sing the praises of their students in sub-Is unless there is a really compelling reason not to. Throw in the fact that the OP's home program is "unenthusiastic," a fact which might come across in less-than-enthusiastic LORs... applying to psych could be a real risk unless they crush step 2. Not that they shouldn't go for it if it's what they want, but they need to come up with a contingency plan in case they do find themselves SOAPing.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that a research year would change any of the points in the previous paragraph. But it is something I would ask your mentor and the PD at your home program. And if it's something you're seriously considering, you should move quickly.

 

[sloop]

Unclear. According to the recently released Charting Outcomes, the match rate for psych this year was 89.6%, making it from my brief perusal the most competitive non-surgical/non-derm specialty: Charting Outcomes of the Match (2022) . How the change to P/F step 1 will change things is anyone's guess, but somebody is going to be in that bottom 10%. All pass in clinical rotations isn't a red flag, but I would argue that getting a pass--not even HIGH pass--in your sub-I *is* unusual, as schools tend to try and sing the praises of their students in sub-Is unless there is a really compelling reason not to. Throw in the fact that the OP's home program is "unenthusiastic," a fact which might come across in less-than-enthusiastic LORs... applying to psych could be a real risk unless they crush step 2. Not that they shouldn't go for it if it's what they want, but they need to come up with a contingency plan in case they do find themselves SOAPing.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that a research year would change any of the points in the previous paragraph. But it is something I would ask your mentor and the PD at your home program. And if it's something you're seriously considering, you should move quickly.

I mean, yes psych is getting more competitive, but still.

He said it was a pass on a pediatrics sub-I. I don’t think people in psych are going to be highly analyzing the performance on a non-psych sub-I any more than they would analyze performance on a non-psych clerkship. Also, while competitiveness for particular programs in psych can sometimes be difficult to predict, rural Nebraska community programs are not going to be highly competitive.

I agree that the way OP phrased his home program’s feelings about him was concerning and I think that is something we need to know more about. For instance, if he has negative comments from his psych rotations on his MSPE, this might be a very different conversation.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I mean, yes psych is getting more competitive, but still.

He said it was a pass on a pediatrics sub-I. I don’t think people in psych are going to be highly analyzing the performance on a non-psych sub-I any more than they would analyze performance on a non-psych clerkship. Also, while competitiveness for particular programs in psych can sometimes be difficult to predict, rural Nebraska community programs are not going to be highly competitive.

I agree that the way OP phrased his home program’s feelings about him was concerning and I think that is something we need to know more about. For instance, if he has negative comments from his psych rotations on his MSPE, this might be a very different conversation.

Agree to disagree on the sub-I piece. On a sub-I it's your chance to show you're ready to "be an intern," and at least at my school you had to really be mediocre to not get at least HP. But as you later get to, it's sort of the totality of the picture--it's pass on a sub-I, and presumably pass on core psych clerkship, and lukewarm home program endorsement... usually if there's a blemish, you can talk yourself into "but at least xyz." In the OP's case, I'm not sure what stands out to reassure potential programs.

Additionally, you would know this better than me... but are there many "rural" psych programs? As one example, at least according to doximity, the only psych residency programs in Nebraska are U Nebraska and Creighton, both in Omaha. It's not like IM or FM or peds where there are a bunch of community programs.

Again, not telling him that he should not apply to psych. But I *do* think having a contingency plan is a good idea. Someone *is* going to be in the bottom 10%.

 

[sloop]

Agree to disagree on the sub-I piece. On a sub-I it's your chance to show you're ready to "be an intern," and at least at my school you had to really be mediocre to not get at least HP. But as you later get to, it's sort of the totality of the picture--it's pass on a sub-I, and presumably pass on core psych clerkship, and lukewarm home program endorsement... usually if there's a blemish, you can talk yourself into "but at least xyz." In the OP's case, I'm not sure what stands out to reassure potential programs.

Additionally, you would know this better than me... but are there many "rural" psych programs? As one example, at least according to doximity, the only psych residency programs in Nebraska are U Nebraska and Creighton, both in Omaha. It's not like IM or FM or peds where there are a bunch of community programs.

Again, not telling him that he should not apply to psych. But I *do* think having a contingency plan is a good idea. Someone *is* going to be in the bottom 10%.

So, honestly I’m not totally sure about the number of community programs in Nebraska. There definitely are some community programs generally but I think you’re right that there are less than in IM/FM. It’s also possible that things in psych are considerably more competitive than they were 5 years ago when I was applying.

I think what to make of the sub-I thing might depend on school. When I was in med school, our school was notoriously anti-grade inflation and this was the source of considerable saltiness among the students. Also, I interviewed a lot of people and I never really questioned non-psych grades. Then again, I was also not the person deciding whether people got interviews in the first place.

It may be good for him to have a contingency plan. I remain very curious about why his home program isn’t enthusiastic about him and how he knows this. It sounds like he may have actually made a distinctly negative impression on somebody which could come out in his application in various ways he did not describe and would be considerably worse for his application than anything he did describe such as merely passing a pediatrics sub-I.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Unclear. According to the recently released Charting Outcomes, the match rate for psych this year was 89.6%, making it from my brief perusal the most competitive non-surgical/non-derm specialty: Charting Outcomes of the Match (2022) . How the change to P/F step 1 will change things is anyone's guess, but somebody is going to be in that bottom 10%. All pass in clinical rotations isn't a red flag, but I would argue that getting a pass--not even HIGH pass--in your sub-I *is* unusual, as schools tend to try and sing the praises of their students in sub-Is unless there is a really compelling reason not to. Throw in the fact that the OP's home program is "unenthusiastic," a fact which might come across in less-than-enthusiastic LORs... applying to psych could be a real risk unless they crush step 2. Not that they shouldn't go for it if it's what they want, but they need to come up with a contingency plan in case they do find themselves SOAPing.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that a research year would change any of the points in the previous paragraph. But it is something I would ask your mentor and the PD at your home program. And if it's something you're seriously considering, you should move quickly.

Pretty set on the research year; that being said. What exactly are you defining as 'crushing step 2'? Would a 250 or 260 change anything for the better?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Pretty set on the research year; that being said. What exactly are you defining as 'crushing step 2'? Would a 250 or 260 change anything for the better?

Yes of course that would help. Any number would be arbitrary, but look up the current charting outcomes mean for psych and aim for something better than that.

If the research year helps you to make stronger connections with faculty at your school and get stronger letters, it may be beneficial (albeit very expensive). Good luck.

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

Yes of course that would help. Any number would be arbitrary, but look up the current charting outcomes mean for psych and aim for something better than that.

If the research year helps you to make stronger connections with faculty at your school and get stronger letters, it may be beneficial (albeit very expensive). Good luck.

Thank you. I have my heart set on psychiatry, for better or worse; I'm aware that I'm going to be paying out the nose to get a medium size boost on my app if I'm lucky. However, if I don't match psych, I'd like to go to sleep at night knowing I did everything I could to fulfill my dream.