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Residencies in Ohio

Discussion in 'General Residency Issues' started by kristing, Aug 22, 2002.

  1. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    I have never been to Ohio. I am a westerner, and can count the times I have seen snow on one hand. I am interested in some residencies in Ohio (programs look good, good schools, decent pay for my husband, etc.), but this scares me a little because it is so completely different than AZ or Cali. I am specifically looking at one program in the Columbus area. Is Columbus a good place? Can I survive the snow? (I know this seems naive, but it's scary to me!)
     
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  3. Stuck in Ohio

    Stuck in Ohio Junior Member
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    You can definitly survive in Ohio. It doesn't really snow that much unless your up in the northeastern corner near the east side of Cleveland. Columbus gets a few inches of snow each year, one or two good snowstorms. Otherwise, its just cold and somewhat overcast all winter long. The real question is..why give up all the cultural diversity and fun of the west and come to boring ohio? Its a very flat, boring city with not a lot to do except eating at restaurants and going to movies. More to do than other places in Ohio, but nothing like whats outside this state.

    Columbus definitly splits the state of Ohio into 2. When you go north to Cleveland, you feel like your in a northern city. When you go south to Cincinnati, you see the Cracker-Barrels and know your hitting southern culture. Just be prepared for that. Its a very suburban feeling city. Overall, Ohio is very conservative so be prepared for that as well.
     
  4. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    I love the west, but there are no ob-Gyn DO residencies here and very few MD Ob-Gyn residencies, and those are super competitive. Cali has 1 (or none???) DO ob-Gyn residencies and I used to live in LA, and don't really care to live there again. I would prefer to stay in a DO residency, and the majority of them are in Michigan, Ohio, and Florida. One of our best friends lives in Columbus, now, and that would also ease the transition.

    I am a tad concerned about Ohio being conservative - as I am not, really. But the Phoenix area is also rather conservative, so I am used to it.

    Thanks so much for your information about the snow. That makes me feel a lot better. How about coffee shops (like Starbucks or similar?) and independent bookstores? This is the extent of our entertainment, generally. Plus we are vegetarians (mostly). So we don't want to be looked at weirdly for that.

    I appreciate your response.:cool:
     
  5. Ronny

    Ronny Member
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    Don't come to Ohio. We don't need any more liberals. Stay in The People's Republic of California with your own kind. :p
     
  6. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    I don't live in Cali now - I was there for undergrad. I would hate to raise my kid there - way too fast paced for children. All the kids I went to college with were completely jaded - they'd seen everything, done everything.

    I guess the whole liberal/conservative thing depends on who you're talking to as to what the difference is. My husband keeps telling me I am not a liberal, it just seems that way because we live in AZ. When I hear something is "conservative" or "liberal" I often wonder what the person's frame of reference is, because in my experience, it often just means opposite from what that person thinks is right.

    But I digress...

    Ronny, do you like Ohio? Are you in the Columbus area? Would you raise a family there?
     
  7. Stuck in Ohio

    Stuck in Ohio Junior Member
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    By conservative I suppose I mean white republicans. Very few minorities in Ohio and Columbus is prolly the worst in the state. Very few blacks, hispanics, almost no asians there. Columbus is suburbia heaven. You can get a great house there for a very reasonable price with a lot of space. Lots of new construction. The north end of the city is one of the fastest growing suburbs in the country according to some survey I read a while ago. Its a terrific place to raise a family and has excellent public schools. Crime is pretty low, the city is relatively clean and orderly. The environment is very DO friendly all over Ohio as we have a DO med school in the state.

    As far as starbucks, yes they have made their way into the state. There are all the large bookstore chains as well. Columbus has a very neat and unique bookstore called the Bookloft in German Village, very cute part of town. Columbus is known for its restaurants. Lots of people enjoy eating out there, if you enjoy that. Not sure about veggie friendly places as I am a carnivore but i'm sure they exist. The whole city revolves around Ohio State so its kinda like a larger suburban college town. Never go downtown in the afternoon when there is a football game that day, its mass chaos.

    If I had to be in Ohio, thats where i'd want to be. But i'm trying to get out of this state. G'luck.
     
  8. DocWagner

    DocWagner Senior Member
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    When looking for a residency, your environment is of course important, but more than anything the HOSPITAL and RESIDENTS are of supreme importance. Being happy at WORK should be your discussion, not the Columbus Thai Food scene. If the residency is good (pay, instruction, call, cost of living), I would imagine you could live anywhere for 3-5 years...especially if you are primarily spending your time in the hospital!
    Ohio is Ohio, but it is a stong medical state committed to residency programs...even DO programs. So regardless of its conservative (who cares) stance, you can actually LIVE on a residents salary here!
     
  9. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    DocWagner...
    OHMYGOD I ASKED ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE OF AN AREA I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH. I MUST BE A TOTAL WEIRDO. Jeez, lighten up, man.

    I have a husband and a son and must not ONLY think of myself. In addition, quality of life OUTSIDE the hospital is essential to me.

    Of course I want to work in a great hospital with great residents. But when asking questions of work envoronment to human beings, often personality comes into play. I may get along with people you don't and vice versa. I have to check out the hospital and resident experience myself or ask questions about it when I know a little bit more of what TO ask. (I am just an M2.)

    At this point, I wanted to see if the area was a good place for me and my FAMILY. They have to live there, too. Silly me, I want my family to like where we live, and I want to like where I live for several years. Just because certain things are not important to you does not mean they are not important to others.

    kristin
    PS How dare you decide what I should and should not discuss. I appreciate your comments on the area, but the combative way in which you answered it makes me leery of your response.
     
  10. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    For Stuck in Ohio -
    I was so busy ranting that I forgot to add that I truly do appreciate your comments on the Columbus area. The fact that you said that if you had to stay in Ohio you would live in Columbus says a lot for the area (even though you hate Ohio).

    I live in super white republican suburbia currently(except there is a good number of hispanics) so I totally understand what you are saying.

    And although Dr. Wagner has chastised us for our discussion, I am grateful for your candor and descriptions of the place.
     
  11. kasimagore1

    kasimagore1 Member
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    I am also a former Californian now lives in Cincinnati for 3 yrs. It' s not as bad as I once thought, especially with the cheap houses, friendly people, and abudance of parks and forests. It is hard to imagine these huge mansions here cost as much as decent middle class houses at the Bay area. With $250,000, you can actually find a place that's spacious and at a safe area. On the downside, people here are much less cosmopolitan, many are smokers and overweight, and are less fashion conscious compared to ppl from either coast. Most ethnic foods here are terrible (especially for one who has been indulged by the world class cuisines from the Bay area), though most people can't tell the difference. The delicacy here at Cincinnati is chili and BBQ ribs, and if you want to try some decent Asian restaurants that serve real asian food, good luck. Most of the "good" asian restaurants here would probably go out of business in no time if they were relocated to NYC, LA, or SF. You would see a fair share of southerners here as mentioned previously. Furthermore, you would more than likely to meet some trailer park white trash type which would be a rarity at LA or SF (where is the trailer park area in LA BTW?). Furtheremore, racial and socioeconomic segregation is quite prominent here....the northeast side (Indian Hill, Loveland, etc) is where the rich white P&G, GE executives and professionals congregate, most the working class/blue collar people live in the westside, and the downtown, over-the-rhine area is basically the ghetto similar to the south central LA or mission area of SF. Cincinnati would be a great place to raise your family provided you live in the area where you would find most of the private schools, world class golf courses, safe parks, etc....however, you will then further contribute to this firmly established geographical segregation. And I would challenge Dr. Wagner to live in the over-the-rhine area should he/she ever venture down to Cinti from Dayton, and I think he/she would rephrase that "I would imagine you could live anywhere for 3-5 years...especially if you are primarily spending your time in the hospital!". Yeah, if I can live in Indian Hills for my residency, I don't think I would have much a problem, either.
     
  12. treefrog

    treefrog New Member

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    I went to college in Ohio. I don't live there now, but I liked Ohio.

    For husband and son, there are all sorts of things to do, it just might take some looking to find them, and adjust to what's available in the region. You mentioned that you don't want to raise a family in California -- OK, I understand (lived in CA too), you'd all probably be fine in Ohio.

    Just my 2 cents worth. Never been to Michigan or Florida.
     
  13. doc0875

    doc0875 Member
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    If the Columbus program you are referring to is Doctors Hospital then I would seriously consider looking elsewhere. They have a long history of screwing over residents. In fact, they have been sued several times for such things as breaching the AOA residency contract and for discrimination. I loved Columbus but hated Doctors Hospital. If you doubt all of this, just ask Dr. Hilliard (the DME) about the following disgruntled ex-trainee: Vernon Reynolds, D.O. Ask about the long drawn-out law suit. You will almost never work with your program director and yet he/she will be expected to evaluate you quarterly (ie, based on hearsay & their subjective oppinion). Not a good place to stay happy.

    doc0875
     
  14. Pikevillemedstudent

    Pikevillemedstudent Bengals Fan
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    Are the problems in Columbus the reason for the Neurosurgery openings there recently?
     
  15. DocWagner

    DocWagner Senior Member
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    First and foremost, prior to asking one to "calm down" it must be assumed that one is "upset". I certainly am not...just trying to give advice to an M2, from someone who has been there.

    My point, which you missed, was that you can LIVE and ENJOY residency in a state (OHIO) that has strong PAC's and strong organized medicine/residency programs...with that on your side, LIFE WITH FAMILY is much easier. Malpractice rates are lower than CA, moonlighting $ is better than CA, though diversity is not the strong point...you will see enough patients to satisfy your whims, while at the same time able to afford a home/leisure activities with family. Ohio allows you to live in one area and easily traveling to another (living in Dayton traveling to Cincy ...my wife does this daily) You don't necessarily need to eat where you sh!t. Pardon the expression.

    You are not the only person with a family. When YOU are happy THEY are happy. That is far from chastising, I would hope you could tell the difference.

    Better? Touchy?
     
  16. Ronny

    Ronny Member
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    Join the peace corp. They'll wisk you away to a land flowing with all the minorities you can handle. :clap:
     
  17. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    DocWagner posted
    "Being happy at WORK should be your discussion, not the Columbus Thai Food scene. If the residency is good (pay, instruction, call, cost of living), I would imagine you could live anywhere for 3-5 years...especially if you are primarily spending your time in the hospital!"

    And then posted:
    "First and foremost, prior to asking one to "calm down" it must be assumed that one is "upset". I certainly am not...just trying to give advice to an M2, from someone who has been there."

    It's funny. I never told you to calm down. Nor did anyone else in this thread. And you're calling ME (I assume) touchy. I just don't like being told what I should or should not discuss. If I wanted to know about the quality of work directly, I would have asked it. (Notice: I started this thread.) I enjoy the information I've gotten, but again, Dr. Wagner, your tone is offensive, and this time it's patronizing. If you want to give info regarding the quality of the residency program, then do it.

    You did say that "if the residency is good ... you could live anywhere for 3-5 years." I wholeheartedly disagree with this subject. Case in point: There are probably fabulous residencies in the LA area. However, I have lived there, and HATED it. I WOULD NOT BE HAPPY THERE, no matter how great the residency program is.

    I did not miss your point. I just disliked the way you said it. If you want to impart your wisdom (which I'm sure you have) in an effective manner, than perhaps you should get rid of the judgement from your posts.
     
  18. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    Now you see, this frightens me. eeekkk...
    Any idea on how to get this info regarding these lawsuits?

    I am also distressed about the evaluation procedure you mentioned. I've had "real jobs" where this has happened and it can be UGLY.

    Thanks for the info.
     
  19. DocWagner

    DocWagner Senior Member
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    Ha! Wow. I could say so much, but instead...
    I will simply shake my head, turn around, and walk away.
     
  20. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    Ta ta DocWagner.
     
  21. Raf

    Raf Junior Member
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    I think we should change the name of this forum, based on this exchange of opinions, "Politically Incorrect"
     
  22. Mango

    Mango Very Senior Member
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    Alright. I've been away from SDN for a while, and I return to find my home town and state being ravaged. I have lived in Ohio for 26 years, minus a four year collegiate stint in the backwoods of Indiana, including a 7 month tour of duty in Copenhagen, Denmark. Other than that, I've been here, in the great Buckeye State.

    And great it is. First, a few comments I would like to address:
    1. Columbus conservative? Hardly. It has a HUGE art seen, including an entire district full of galleries. Most of this is driven by the fact that Columbus has the second largest gay population in the country. Yes, it's also the 15th largest city, and Ohio in the 7th largest state, in terms of population. While we are definitely not as progressive or liberal as San Fran (where I have been 6 times), we are definitely not talking stone age Midwest either.

    2. No Asians!? While I find this a weird point to argue, I suggest the poster who stated this take a trip up to Dublin (where I'm from). There you will find a very large Asian population, consisting primarily of Japanese families from the Marysville Honda plant.

    3. I live in Cincy now, and conservative IT IS. Compared to Columbus: Night and Day.

    4. Raising a family in Columbus: you couldn't pick a better place. Friendly people, great schools, world class museums/zoo, lakes, amusement parks (yeah, no Ocean, but you can't have it all), and a strong sense of community. The whole town rallies around things like OSU football, NHL hockey, and monthly art festivals. It really is a great place to live.

    So, I hope I have defended my home town well. It is where I plan on spending my life, and raising my kids. Sure, I love San Fran, NYC, and Chicago, but Columbus is home, and it always will feel like it to me. If you decide to come here for residency, I'm sure you will feel at home too.
     
  23. kristing

    kristing Senior Member
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    Thank you SOOOOO much to Mango MSIII for that fantastic post. That is exactly what I was looking for (in terms of info and in terms of a place to live). I really appreciate it.
    kristin
     
  24. Imhotep

    Imhotep Attending
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    Kristin and Wagner.......get a room together, ya lovebirds :) ;)
     
  25. Stump

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    How About Dayton, Ohio.........anyone got any info????
     
  26. chypes

    chypes Caffine Addict
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    Someone Said: "Very few minorities in Ohio and Columbus is prolly the worst in the state"

    This just isnt true.......Ohio is always watched in national political races becasue Ohio's minority populations best match that of the entire country. ie. were about 12% african american, the country is about 12% african american.........etc, etc

    Dont worry about snow...its not that bad......i couldnt imagine winter without snow.....you get used to driving on it.....

    The only thing about columbus is the trafic problem......roads in ohio are under construction so often that the orange barrel was named ohio's state flower.....:rolleyes:
     
  27. Annette

    Annette gainfully employed
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    Does anyone have info on Cleveland?
     
  28. DocWagner

    DocWagner Senior Member
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    Stump,

    Dayton is OK. It is a small town, and certainly not the most diverse place in the world...but the hospitals are pretty nice. If you have specific questions about certain residencies email me.
     
  29. womansurg

    womansurg it's a hard life...
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    Wow, it's interesting and amusing to watch all this misinformation flying around. Makes me draw parallels with popular topics in the news and what-not.

    Well, I lived in Columbus for six years and in Cincinnati for four. Graduated from Ohio State University College of Medicine.

    By far Mango's post is the most accurate. Columbus is faaaaar from conservative. And diversity? About a third of the city neighborhoods have a black population of greater than 70%; year 2000 census shows 25% black, 67% white, remainder various groups. (Cincinnati is greater than 40% black; Cleveland greater than 50%). The second largest university in the country (Ohio State) sits smack in the middle of Columbus. Every ethnic group you can imagine is represented there. Consequently, the local restaurant fare is fantastic. Crime is always high in university areas. There are more than 100 murders per year in the city. Snow is moderate and handled immediately by very good city/county personnel.

    The folks I knew at Doctor's were happy overall, but they were aquaintances. I might not have known the true story.

    I thought DocWagner's post was helpful and informative - and I think would match most residents advice to you. It's true that the character of the program is what will make or break your experience; the community you live in is just wallpaper behind your 100+ hour work weeks. He uses caps a lot to illustrate points. Do you suppose you misinterpreted this as aggression?

    Regards! :cool:
     
  30. SW-Adrian

    SW-Adrian Member
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    Coming from Boston, Cleveland is quite a change for me. The city is amazingly active during the summer especially. People enjoy water sports a lot here, including sailing, jetskis and so on. The weather has been really good this summer. Mostly in the 70-80s, and sunny most of the time with blue skies. During winter times, the weather can be pretty grim though. In terms of restaurants, there is a decent variety of ethnic foods. One big difference I found from Boston is that nobody really hangs around downtown after working hours or during weekends. There are many places to go in the suburbs. Like every city, there are some bad areas, but you can easily stay out of them. The East side which is where Case Western is located, tends to be a very cultural environment with lots of museums and theatres. World class shopping is available at the beachwood mall (ie. Saks Fifth etc...). All along the west side of cleveland, especially along the coast, you'll find great neighborhoods to live and to raise your family. Housing is cheap, so your resident's salary goes a lot further than most places.
    Someone mentioned something about asians in a prior posting. Well, I'm asian, and I'm not the only one :). The Cleveland Clinic, University Hospitals, and Metrohealth employ plenty of asians. There is even a young professional asian society in Cleveland called Motivasians. You can check them out at http://www.motivasians.com.

    Email me if you have more questions.

    Cheers,
    Adrian

    [email protected]:)
     

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