Residency and graduating from a new school

[RafMin]

Is it tougher to get into residency programs if you go to a new medical school, such as FAU or FIU in Florida?

Thanks

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[Daodejing]

I'm not sure how to precisely gauge how tough it will/will not be. You can check out TCMC's (in Pennsylvania) match list. It looks fine and it's a new school. Not sure about the FL schools, but I don't think they would be any different.

Choose a school based on how happy you think you would be in that environment, all things included.

 

[sazerac]

Is it tougher to get into residency programs if you go to a new medical school, such as FAU or FIU in Florida?

Thanks

No, but new medical schools such as FAU or FIU in Florida make it harder for everybody else to get into residency programs.

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/331096/031513.html

"In fact, the 960 additional graduating medical school students participating in this year’s Main Residency Match are due primarily to four new medical schools included in this year’s Match..."

Guess how many unmatched American Medical Graduates there were this year? About 1,000.

 

[REL]

No, but new medical schools such as FAU or FIU in Florida make it harder for everybody else to get into residency programs.

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/331096/031513.html

"In fact, the 960 additional graduating medical school students participating in this year’s Main Residency Match are due primarily to four new medical schools included in this year’s Match..."

Guess how many unmatched American Medical Graduates there were this year? About 1,000.

Something to think about: The four new MD programs actually started with about 200 students in their combined charter classes...so the information in this article is suspect. There were 760 "primarily" from elsewhere.....

 

[umean2tellme]

Yeah not so sure about that article. I'm graduating from FIU's first class and we graduated 33 people. UCF had about 36 graduates.

Will it be harder to get into residency? That depends on what you want to go into. Some more "prestigious" places may be more hesitant to take a student from a school they're not familiar with, but it's not impossible. If your app is competitive you will be fine.

 

[Knocked Up]

I'm originally from GA but went to ugrad in FL, so I guess I'll chime in while I'm bored. You may want to check out UCF's match list to see where a new school in FL recently matched their kids. You have to keep in mind a few facts though.

1. The kids who end up going to FAU and FIU are not competitive applicants. Most would not be in medical school (MD) if it weren't for these two schools opening in the state. The large majority are DO caliber. I went to school with a lot of kids who matriculated at each school and let's just say they aren't the "cream of the crop".

2. I'm pretty sure FIU and FAU are like 1 building medical schools. The research opportunities aren't there (clincial research). Yeah, FAU is connected with Scripps, but how many FAU kids are motivated enough to do bench research and medical school (really?).

3. Recs. Who the heck is writing the recs at these schools? If you want NS, is the program director of their residencies writing you a letter? Yeah, you can ace your aways and get them that way, but what about a home program? Is there really anybody notable to work with at FIU or FAU that would hold any clout??

4. If you want to stay in FL, why don't you at least go to UF or UM. You have to look at where the average kid at the program matches. The average kid at those 2 schools matches back at UF or UM. UCF is building up nicely and they look to be third in line for that state. FSU, FIU, and FAU will make it incredibly hard for you to match at a respectable place. PD know the quality of admissions for medical school, and coming from one of those three schools will not do you any favors.

5. Now everything I am saying may be moot if you wreck the boards and publish profusely. Is the average kid at any of the said programs going to do this in all honesty? Actually, is the average med student anywhere going to do that?

Go to the best place you can get in. If that is FAU or FIU, you 'll have an uphill battle (but something tells me you already know that).

 

[RafMin]

I'm originally from GA but went to ugrad in FL, so I guess I'll chime in while I'm bored. You may want to check out UCF's match list to see where a new school in FL recently matched their kids. You have to keep in mind a few facts though.

1. The kids who end up going to FAU and FIU are not competitive applicants. Most would not be in medical school (MD) if it weren't for these two schools opening in the state. The large majority are DO caliber. I went to school with a lot of kids who matriculated at each school and let's just say they aren't the "cream of the crop".

2. I'm pretty sure FIU and FAU are like 1 building medical schools. The research opportunities aren't there (clincial research). Yeah, FAU is connected with Scripps, but how many FAU kids are motivated enough to do bench research and medical school (really?).

3. Recs. Who the heck is writing the recs at these schools? If you want NS, is the program director of their residencies writing you a letter? Yeah, you can ace your aways and get them that way, but what about a home program? Is there really anybody notable to work with at FIU or FAU that would hold any clout??

4. If you want to stay in FL, why don't you at least go to UF or UM. You have to look at where the average kid at the program matches. The average kid at those 2 schools matches back at UF or UM. UCF is building up nicely and they look to be third in line for that state. FSU, FIU, and FAU will make it incredibly hard for you to match at a respectable place. PD know the quality of admissions for medical school, and coming from one of those three schools will not do you any favors.

5. Now everything I am saying may be moot if you wreck the boards and publish profusely. Is the average kid at any of the said programs going to do this in all honesty? Actually, is the average med student anywhere going to do that?

Go to the best place you can get in. If that is FAU or FIU, you 'll have an uphill battle (but something tells me you already know that).

Thank you so much for your reply everyone. You mentioned that FAU is probably a 1 building medical school, it is..that is also a concern I had, I was wondering if other school's have much more buildings? So other schools that are already established will have many research opportunities inside the medical school as opposed to going to another place? Another concern I had was technology. I was worried that a school like FAU will be using less of the latest technologies and will have less resources. Is that a valid concern?

 

[smk9]

I'm originally from GA but went to ugrad in FL, so I guess I'll chime in while I'm bored. You may want to check out UCF's match list to see where a new school in FL recently matched their kids. You have to keep in mind a few facts though.

1. The kids who end up going to FAU and FIU are not competitive applicants. Most would not be in medical school (MD) if it weren't for these two schools opening in the state. The large majority are DO caliber. I went to school with a lot of kids who matriculated at each school and let's just say they aren't the "cream of the crop".

2. I'm pretty sure FIU and FAU are like 1 building medical schools. The research opportunities aren't there (clincial research). Yeah, FAU is connected with Scripps, but how many FAU kids are motivated enough to do bench research and medical school (really?).

3. Recs. Who the heck is writing the recs at these schools? If you want NS, is the program director of their residencies writing you a letter? Yeah, you can ace your aways and get them that way, but what about a home program? Is there really anybody notable to work with at FIU or FAU that would hold any clout??

4. If you want to stay in FL, why don't you at least go to UF or UM. You have to look at where the average kid at the program matches. The average kid at those 2 schools matches back at UF or UM. UCF is building up nicely and they look to be third in line for that state. FSU, FIU, and FAU will make it incredibly hard for you to match at a respectable place. PD know the quality of admissions for medical school, and coming from one of those three schools will not do you any favors.

5. Now everything I am saying may be moot if you wreck the boards and publish profusely. Is the average kid at any of the said programs going to do this in all honesty? Actually, is the average med student anywhere going to do that?

Go to the best place you can get in. If that is FAU or FIU, you 'll have an uphill battle (but something tells me you already know that).

For the most part you're way off. Just look at FSU's match list. This year we had matches at many "respectable programs" --- Dartmouth, Yale, Hopkins/Bayview, UTSW, Brown, Cornell, Barnes-Jewish, UAB, Carolinas Medical Center, University of Michigan, George Washington, Baylor, University of Colorado (neurosurgery), Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Boston University Medical Center, Emory, and Tulane. Oh, and plenty of UF and Jackson/Miami Children's matches.

The majority of us had letters from our "cloutless" faculty and little/no research.

Both UCFs and FIUs first classes had very respectable, if not excellent, matches.

In addition, to lump all all FIU or FAU students into one category makes no sense whatsoever. If RafMin works hard and does well on his/her Step exams and receives good clinical evaluations and is personable, he/she should have no problem getting into a great program. The school matters a lot less than you think.

And RafMin, why would it matter if the school is in one building, if its a nice building a comfortable? Go somewhere you will be happy cause that's where you will flourish. And the newer schools tend to have newer technology in order to draw more people in.

 

[mimelim]

For the most part you're way off. Just look at FSU's match list. This year we had matches at many "respectable programs" --- Dartmouth, Yale, Hopkins/Bayview, UTSW, Brown, Cornell, Barnes-Jewish, UAB, Carolinas Medical Center, University of Michigan, George Washington, Baylor, University of Colorado (neurosurgery), Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, Boston University Medical Center, Emory, and Tulane. Oh, and plenty of UF and Jackson/Miami Children's matches.

The majority of us had letters from our "cloutless" faculty and little/no research.

Both UCFs and FIUs first classes had very respectable, if not excellent, matches.

In addition, to lump all all FIU or FAU students into one category makes no sense whatsoever. If RafMin works hard and does well on his/her Step exams and receives good clinical evaluations and is personable, he/she should have no problem getting into a great program. The school matters a lot less than you think.

And RafMin, why would it matter if the school is in one building, if its a nice building a comfortable? Go somewhere you will be happy cause that's where you will flourish. And the newer schools tend to have newer technology in order to draw more people in.

1) You listed big name medical schools like it means something without the designated specialty. There are incredibly weak programs at many of those hospitals/schools. Listing places that people go is meaningless, I mean someone can do a prelim somewhere and still show up on a match list as going to that place. (see Caribbean match lists)
2) I'd be willing to bet that Harvard, Hopkins, Wash U, Stanford etc have more newer tech than FIU. Those two are completely unrelated. The size of your budget is a much more easily to correlate stat.

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Now that that is said... I think the best indicator that school plays less of a roll than many think... One of my friends just graduated from FIU and matched Radiology at MGH. You can't really get much more selective than that.

 

[Gut Shot]

No, but new medical schools such as FAU or FIU in Florida make it harder for everybody else to get into residency programs.

https://www.aamc.org/newsroom/newsreleases/331096/031513.html

"In fact, the 960 additional graduating medical school students participating in this year's Main Residency Match are due primarily to four new medical schools included in this year's Match..."

Guess how many unmatched American Medical Graduates there were this year? About 1,000.

This is what we call a leap in logic. Let us step back and examine prior years of NRMP data:

Year / Positions / US Seniors / Unmatched / Positions per US Senior
2012 / 24,034 / 16,527 / 815 / 1.45
2011 / 23,421 / 16,559 / 971 / 1.41
2010 / 22,809 / 16,070 / 1078 / 1.42
2009 / 22,427 / 15,638 / 1072 / 1.43
2008 / 22,240 / 15,242 / 883 / 1.46

The number of unmatched allopathic US seniors this year is not much of an outlier. Of note, it did occur on the heels of 2012, in which this cohort had the highest match rate in thirty years.

 

[smk9]

1) You listed big name medical schools like it means something without the designated specialty. There are incredibly weak programs at many of those hospitals/schools. Listing places that people go is meaningless, I mean someone can do a prelim somewhere and still show up on a match list as going to that place. (see Caribbean match lists)
2) I'd be willing to bet that Harvard, Hopkins, Wash U, Stanford etc have more newer tech than FIU. Those two are completely unrelated. The size of your budget is a much more easily to correlate stat.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that that is said... I think the best indicator that school plays less of a roll than many think... One of my friends just graduated from FIU and matched Radiology at MGH. You can't really get much more selective than that.

Mimelim,

None of the programs I listed were for prelims (though we did have a prelim Wake, we had others.) I wasn't going to list every specialty matched because for many there were multiple (for UTSW we had gen surg, anesthesia, and EM) but the majority of people matched where they wanted to in the specialty they wanted to. You can look at the list online with a little help from Google.

You can bet all you want but as far as FSU goes, we have one of the best sim centers in the nation. The schools/people who invented sim centers come to see ours for ideas on how improve their own. Those schools you listed may have a bigger budget than most, and may have better technology, but there is no guarantee of that. And their is no guarantee the average or even above applicant has a shot at any of those.

I think your final thought about FIU nails what I said perfectly-- you can still have an incredible match from an relatively unknown school.

 

[thesauce]

Edit: someone beat me to it

 

[thesauce]

Mimelim,

None of the programs I listed were for prelims (though we did have a prelim Wake, we had others.) I wasn't going to list every specialty matched because for many there were multiple (for UTSW we had gen surg, anesthesia, and EM) but the majority of people matched where they wanted to in the specialty they wanted to. You can look at the list online with a little help from Google.

You can bet all you want but as far as FSU goes, we have one of the best sim centers in the nation. The schools/people who invented sim centers come to see ours for ideas on how improve their own. Those schools you listed may have a bigger budget than most, and may have better technology, but there is no guarantee of that. And their is no guarantee the average or even above applicant has a shot at any of those.

I think your final thought about FIU nails what I said perfectly-- you can still have an incredible match from an relatively unknown school.

You mean like an OSCE center?

 

[Bangersandmash]

I'm originally from GA but went to ugrad in FL, so I guess I'll chime in while I'm bored. You may want to check out UCF's match list to see where a new school in FL recently matched their kids. You have to keep in mind a few facts though.

1. The kids who end up going to FAU and FIU are not competitive applicants. Most would not be in medical school (MD) if it weren't for these two schools opening in the state. The large majority are DO caliber. I went to school with a lot of kids who matriculated at each school and let's just say they aren't the "cream of the crop".

2. I'm pretty sure FIU and FAU are like 1 building medical schools. The research opportunities aren't there (clincial research). Yeah, FAU is connected with Scripps, but how many FAU kids are motivated enough to do bench research and medical school (really?).

3. Recs. Who the heck is writing the recs at these schools? If you want NS, is the program director of their residencies writing you a letter? Yeah, you can ace your aways and get them that way, but what about a home program? Is there really anybody notable to work with at FIU or FAU that would hold any clout??

4. If you want to stay in FL, why don't you at least go to UF or UM. You have to look at where the average kid at the program matches. The average kid at those 2 schools matches back at UF or UM. UCF is building up nicely and they look to be third in line for that state. FSU, FIU, and FAU will make it incredibly hard for you to match at a respectable place. PD know the quality of admissions for medical school, and coming from one of those three schools will not do you any favors.

5. Now everything I am saying may be moot if you wreck the boards and publish profusely. Is the average kid at any of the said programs going to do this in all honesty? Actually, is the average med student anywhere going to do that?

Go to the best place you can get in. If that is FAU or FIU, you 'll have an uphill battle (but something tells me you already know that).

1. For a school without competitive applicants, I believe they both still had <5% acceptance rates. I'd be surprised to hear that only DO caliber applicants made it in. That would mean a few hundred less than DO caliber applicants had to apply and get rejected.

2. Plenty of med school students do bench research, especially for competitive residencies. Bench research at Scripps would be awfully cool to put on a resume, especially with a fruitful project leading to papers.

3. Good point, but unless you want plastics as Harvard, I think you'll do fine at most places in most specialties with strong letters from lesser known faculty who might have more time to spend with you and mentor you.

4. And this is where you truly shine! I like how you make brash assumptions about the future of programs in Florida while completely ignoring the current third ranked institution in Florida (USF). Not to mention, you take a dump on FSU (an established program well ahead of UCF right now).

5. Your points are still moot. A student who doesn't want to put forth the effort won't put it forth anywhere, whether he or she is at Harvard, Yale, FAU or FIU. A student who does want to put forth the effort will wreck the boards and find research at their school. Hence why competitive specialties are competitive and why the average student doesn't go into those.

 

[thesauce]

1. For a school without competitive applicants, I believe they both still had <5% acceptance rates. I'd be surprised to hear that only DO caliber applicants made it in. That would mean a few hundred less than DO caliber applicants had to apply and get rejected.

Is there something about this that seems far-fetched to you?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

5. Your points are still moot. A student who doesn't want to put forth the effort won't put it forth anywhere, whether he or she is at Harvard, Yale, FAU or FIU. A student who does want to put forth the effort will wreck the boards and find research at their school. Hence why competitive specialties are competitive and why the average student doesn't go into those.

Yeah man all you need to do is wreck the boards and get a 260 Step 1 nbd.

I always love how people (read premeds on here) seem to think that anyone can just study really hard and "wreck the boards". Yes, you can follow a formula and get a decent score but "wrecking the boards" depends a good bit on luck and studying a truly excessive amount. You can't just be like "oh it's cool I'm just gonna go run train on the boards in medical school".