Residency Hours

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Waiting4Ganong

Senior Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
199
Reaction score
0
Have a college friend who is a now a 3rd year med student considering Ortho but too scared to ask this question locally for fear of being branded as somehow lazy! After internship, what are your typical hours as an ortho resident? He loves Surgery, Ortho and the OR but already has wife and kid (plus another on the way) and wants to see some of their childhood over next 5-6 years!

I think he'd be a great candidate (very smart guy, bit older, boards>90 etc etc)

Any residents want to break it down for him? In particular an idea of typical work weeks as you progress through PGY2-5 and the typical number of w/end days off would be ideal (note: not the minimum you could get away with - the typical amount that a strong resident would expect to do).

Cheers.

P.S: Standard SDN disclaimer: No value-judgements/flaming from people who aren't residents or attendings please.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I've heard many versions. I've been told that ortho residents work less than regular gen surg residents.

But at our hospital, it seems like both residents work up to the 80 hr limit.
 
In all five years? Our upper years take home call in the final few years of training.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Waiting4Ganong said:
In all five years? Our upper years take home call in the final few years of training.

Yup...for all 5 years!
 
LOL. That Sucks! :laugh:

I guess he does need to find another option then or he won't recognize those kids when he is done!

Thanks for the info.

Anyone else got info from their departments? Is the 80hrs+ for 5yrs pretty standard?
 
At my program, 80+ hours is the norm (often much more than that). For comparison, the IM program averages probably 65 hours and EM ~60.

Another way to look at this....I think this type of analysis (hours during training) is considerably lacking with respect to the big picture. First off, you have to do what you most love. I think spending the rest of one's career saying "what if" would be worse than 5 years in residency. Moreover, most non-EM interns work 80 hours, so you're looking at 4 years of 80+ vs 2 years of 65+ in another specialty.

This being said, look at lifestyles beyond residency. Some stay easy (EM). Orthopds do average amongst the top work hours in private practice. At the same time, from my perspective, they have much more control over future hours than many specialties. Put simply, a pod can choose to work less in the future for the same (or much better) lifestyle than IM docs.

Again, the biggest factor should be to do what you love. For most of us, that means that we'll be happier people, and likely better to be around (as parents, collegues, etc).
 
Dry Dre, I agree. Nothing saddens me more than hearing pre-meds/ preclinical students talking about which speciality has the best compensation/lifestyle/reputation as if they'd pimp themselves out to the highest bidder. I find that really sad. Life is too short to spend it doing something that you don't love doing.

Having said that - 88 is a big chunk of 168 and while do-able for a few years - for 5 or 6yrs effectively means this guy will not see his kids grow up. I expect this will be a deal breaker for him.

A shame because I expect he would have been great and the post-residency lifestyle he could certainly handle (we know two orthopods who work a 4day <50hr week in private practice and still get reasonably paid). If he was still mid-20s he'd have done the residency in a heartbeat but being a bit older with a family effectively rules this option out it seems if he is going to be the kind of man he wants to be.

One last shot in the dark - Freida lists a number of programs with 70hr average workweek at PGY1. Are these numbers realistic or are they averaging in vacation time etc? He'd be happy to work 90hrs/wk for 2-3 if he could go down to 60-70 in the final few years.



So, looks like I gave him bad advice again- convincing him he shouldn't give up looking into it (Sorry Mate!!). You could always come across to UK with me though - 8yrs to fellowship-trained orthopod at 60hrs/wk, decent pay while training - but warm beer, weak showers, tiny houses etc. are all part of the deal too!!!
 
Hmm...it would probably be better to ask the current residents. I know a lot of programs list certain hours under their Freida profile but in reality, the residents work a lot more than what is listed.

It is probably more accurate to straight to the actual residents and ask! (if possible)
 
I don't know if it's just me, but the family thing seems like an easy out to me. It seems like it's just a way for people that don't want to put in the hours and years to get out of doing it. He might really be afraid of not seeing his kids grow up, but so many other people have done it and are doing it right now. If he really wants to do ortho, I say suck it up and do it. It will be worth it in the end when he's happy doing what he loves for a living instead of wondering what could have been.
 
mysophobe said:
I don't know if it's just me, but the family thing seems like an easy out to me. It seems like it's just a way for people that don't want to put in the hours and years to get out of doing it. He might really be afraid of not seeing his kids grow up, but so many other people have done it and are doing it right now. If he really wants to do ortho, I say suck it up and do it. It will be worth it in the end when he's happy doing what he loves for a living instead of wondering what could have been.

Hey you know what - the "no value-judgements" disclaimer was just for you. I don't care what you think of him or his reasons. He doesn't care. His wife and kids don't care. Nobody cares. We just want to know the average hours worked by Ortho Residents during years PGY1-5. Nothing else. Do you have an answer to that question? If not, well, we aren't interested.

I'm sorry that wasn't made clear enough for you.
 
Chillax buddy. Are you sure your "friend" isn't you? I was making a general comment, and if you would have read past the first sentence, you'd see that I said he "might really be afraid of not seeing his kids grow up".

I hope he doesn't care what I think of him. I'm an anonymous poster on SDN. If he or his family cares what I think, they have serious self-esteem issues.

The post was intended to be a general comment about a general occurence--nothing more, nothing less. I gave my view on the situation, and I stand by it. He should do what he loves to avoid being unhappy. They'll make it work.

I'm sorry that wasn't made clear enough for you.
 
Ouch!

All hissiness aside, I've always found it curious that people send their friends to ask stuff for them on message boards.

I always think it's the actual person themselves trying to be anonymous and saying "a friend I know wants to know about so and so"

Or maybe some of the older folks (I'm assuming he's a bit older since he has a family) aren't as connected to the Internet and SDN?
 
Not sure. I wondered about that too. It seems to happen quite often. It's weird that they'd ask someone to ask something on an anonymous forum. Anyway, I was just giving my POV. I would think he'd want to be happy with his life 10 years from now rather than looking back in regret, but apparently not.
 
I have a "friend" with this bad rash you know where. Should I.....ummmm...I mean...should he put some kind of cream on it?
 
toofache32 said:
I have a "friend" with this bad rash you know where. Should I.....ummmm...I mean...should he put some kind of cream on it?

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Simple answer to the "friend" cliche. He is MSIII. I'm a 4th yr. I have so much time I don't know what to do with it. He is getting crushed.

Sorry for being a bit sharp. I really just did want to get a census of hours worked by ortho residents though. Maybe I should have done it as a poll.
 
I just matched into ortho, so I can't speak for myself, but I can assure you all that there are plenty of programs in the country where the residents don't average 80 hours a week. Many residents I talked to on the interview trail said they had a very good lifestlye. Some programs off the top of my head that seemed to have good lifestyles were Michigan, Northwestern, Beaumont, Grand Rapids, Medical college of wisconsin. Another thing to remember is that work hours also vary by rotation. Trauma and Peds rotations will definately be closer to 80 hours than sports or hand.
 
Thanks pottsy2. Good to hear. And congratulations on matching!
 
A poll might have been easier. I think people are more inclined to just click than have to type out an explanation.
 
Get ready to work 70-80 for the whole time. Also - the work does not stop in the hospital. Get ready for journal clubs, education, and other extra activites that don't count toward the 80. Also, better count on studying on your time off. Ortho, though fun, is a fair amount of work and always has something to ready or study.

That being said, I am an ortho resident with a family. Somehow you find time to see the kid(s) and spouse. Finally, don't settle for something you do not love. 40 hours of something you do not enjoy (and therefore suck at) makes for a miserable life. Better to be busy doing something you love and are good at.
 
Top