Residency in Denamrk or Sweden

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NetPharoh

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Hi all ,
I'm an international Non Eu doctor i have finished medical school and i will finish my internship year in a couple of months . I would like to know how to get a residency in Denmark or Sweden . Do i need to take any exams??? is a certain level of language proficiency is required ??? etc......
Any information will be much appreciated :)
Thanks in advance for your help

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85 views and not even a single answer for my first post here in the forum???? that is really depressing guys :oops:(
 
Hey there,
I would really suggest that you go over some of the threads in the international forum as this issue has been answered over and over again.

But a gist:
You do have to take a language for Denmark (and Norway) but not Sweden (although you have to prove that you're fluent to a certain extent in your interview). Furthermore, you have to get your degree validated or recognized by the medical boards of these countries. Usually non-EU medical graduates will have to sit an exam (which tests your medical knowledge) and if they don't pass it, then they have to try again. After you pass this exam, you then undergo and 6 month-1 year training in order for you to get accustomed to the Swedish/Danish system of healthcare. Upon completion of this training and validation of your medical degree, you will be legally registered. Once you're done with this training, you finally get to choose a specialty of your choice (this is equivalent to a residency). And the specialty is of course paid and the salary gets better as you go on (usually the Scandinavian resident salaries are much better than their American counterpart).

If you want to work without specialization, then you still have to essentially follow all the rules mentioned above and then apply for the post. However, I must remind you that it's not easy for foreign medical grads to get spots in the major cities (Gothenberg, Sweden, Umea, Malmo etc.) I'm not too sure about the danish system, but I'll find out more and let you know.

Hope this helps (and plz do look for the threads regarding the Swedish system, there are tons of links which I've posted.)
 
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Thanks a lot my friend for your help i really appreciate it and i will look for your topics about Sweden as you advised me :).
concerning Denmark i heard that it is not a must to be good at the danish language before you go there and doctors looking for jobs there usually learn danish when they reach Denmark not before , so is this true or wut???
 
Thanks a lot my friend for your help i really appreciate it and i will look for your topics about Sweden as you advised me :).
concerning Denmark i heard that it is not a must to be good at the danish language before you go there and doctors looking for jobs there usually learn danish when they reach Denmark not before , so is this true or wut???

You're welcome. Yes, actually I just came across that recently when reading about accreditation. So it must be true. But I would still assume that you know a little bit of introductory danish. Denmark seems to be accepting of international graduates (but their language is just so ridiculously hard and sounds so weird lol.)
 
You're welcome. Yes, actually I just came across that recently when reading about accreditation. So it must be true. But I would still assume that you know a little bit of introductory danish. Denmark seems to be accepting of international graduates (but their language is just so ridiculously hard and sounds so weird lol.)

Lol yeah that is true they have a weird language but it has a lot in common with German & i also believe that any one who survived 6 years of studying medicine any language shouldn't be a problem at all for him :D

What do you think about the level of medical training in Denmark is it as good as Sweden and Germany or not ??? because Germany is like my first priority now but i'm also considering Denmark because i spent there sometime and i really liked the country (despite of the odd weather)
 
Well I think almost all the Western European countries (and typically the Northern ones) have good training programs. They are more problem oriented and focus more on differential diagnosis (similar to the UK, Canadian and US programs) but they're also different in many ways. I would really recommend also looking at Norway. But of course, the greatest advantage with the Danish system is that you're not required to be proficient in Danish from the beginning. You acquire it as you go along...this is unfortunately not the case with the other Scandinavian countries (Norway has a language requirement - Bergens test; Sweden doesn't but it's medical board clearly states that one should have a reasonable level of fluency in the language.)

Good luck! and yes, Germany has some of the best training programs in the world (unfortunately the salaries aren't all that high in Germany like in the Scandinavian countries.)
 
Thanx my friend :) i really appreciate your help

I've already started learning German coz i said i'm thinking of Germany as my first priority and i figured out that i wont lose a thing if i learn German even if i might end up somewhere else and also because learning Danish or Swedish can be done in these countries only i think.

I'm also thinking about specializing in Germany and then moving to a scandinavian country after finishing my specialty as i think that Germany has a more reputable training system. what do you think about that??
 
Thanx my friend :) i really appreciate your help

I've already started learning German coz i said i'm thinking of Germany as my first priority and i figured out that i wont lose a thing if i learn German even if i might end up somewhere else and also because learning Danish or Swedish can be done in these countries only i think.

I'm also thinking about specializing in Germany and then moving to a scandinavian country after finishing my specialty as i think that Germany has a more reputable training system. what do you think about that??

Indeed, a great country to study (but not as great to work). They have some of the best medical schools in the World. Although Sweden does too (the Karolinska Institute for eg. which is the home of the Nobel Prize.)
 
Hey I would recommend you go over this link:

http://portal.foreignersindenmark.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=630

The poster here (Arindam Bharadwaz) is actually currently working there (this link proves it:http://www.foreignersindenmark.dk/d...n+doctor+working+at+Århus+university+hospital)

He clearly states that while you don't need to be completely fluent, you should have a working knowledge of Danish which is assessed by the respective Hospitals where you're applying. So language is indirectly, a requirement (as least upto a certain level).
 
Hi.

I graduated from a US Med school, did transitional year and now am a doctor in Denmark.

In order to work here, you need to get your degree approved, preferably have finished internship, become fluent in Danish, pass 6 months of working in two different departments in Denmark and pass 3 tests dealing with Danish medical rules and culture. But the hardest of all things is getting a work permit. That is more and more reserved for people who have a green card. I am married to a Dane. That's the only way it worked out for me.
 
Hey there lilybriscoe,
I'm glad to hear from someone who's moved there. How long did it take you to learn danish? or rather become fluent in it? Did you first take language courses and then get in? or did you do research or something like that while taking Danish courses?

Thanks a lot.
 
Hi Shreypete,

So I've lived in Denmark for a year and learned Danish basically from music and from my husband who would quiz me for about 10 months leading up to our move (I applied for a green card "opholdtilladelse" and approval of my medical credentials during that time). When I got here, I knew how to speak, but not how to write. I took a 6 week medical Danish course at Roskilde Sprogcenter (in case you are really, really interested) and they were like "you are ready to work." My medical lincensing stuff got approved at the same time and then I got offered a job both in Internal Medicine and Ophthalmology. I'm working in Ophthalmology now (and had been an Ophtho resident in the US... but left my residency because I lived in a different state from my fiance, was pregnant and just couldn't be a mom alone and work 80 a week, you know) and doing a PhD also with the Ophtho department. But I will warn you that foreign doctors are sometimes not well-received here and ones from the US don't seem to be an exception. Most patients are great, but there is no doubt some xenophobia here. Other than that, I am really happy here.
 
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You have to consider that Danes, Swedes, Norwegians are a lot less religious in general. This means the potential for being isolated is greater, compared to more southern European countries. If you don't like xenophobia, and happen to be more internationally oriented, move to Malmö.
 
Hi Shreypete,

So I've lived in Denmark for a year and learned Danish basically from music and from my husband who would quiz me for about 10 months leading up to our move (I applied for a green card "opholdtilladelse" and approval of my medical credentials during that time). When I got here, I knew how to speak, but not how to write. I took a 6 week medical Danish course at Roskilde Sprogcenter (in case you are really, really interested) and they were like "you are ready to work." My medical lincensing stuff got approved at the same time and then I got offered a job both in Internal Medicine and Ophthalmology. I'm working in Ophthalmology now (and had been an Ophtho resident in the US... but left my residency because I lived in a different state from my fiance, was pregnant and just couldn't be a mom alone and work 80 a week, you know) and doing a PhD also with the Ophtho department. But I will warn you that foreign doctors are sometimes not well-received here and ones from the US don't seem to be an exception. Most patients are great, but there is no doubt some xenophobia here. Other than that, I am really happy here.

Wow an ophtho residency sure sounds quite competitive. I'm quite impressed that you actually learned Danish (I for one thought it's so hard to master due some of the sounds they have in their language which are so hard to mimic.) I'm looking more into Sweden and Denmark but I have some more time. I would like to work in a European country but I'm not so sure if I can live there all my live. I want to move back home eventually which is why I'm contemplating doing my residency in the States and then considering a shift to a European country later. Do you think that's a good idea? Good luck to you once again and it's good to hear that you like it there (Denmark has been voted as one of the happiest places to live in ;)).
 
Hey I would recommend you go over this link:

http://portal.foreignersindenmark.dk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=630

The poster here (Arindam Bharadwaz) is actually currently working there (this link proves it:http://www.foreignersindenmark.dk/d...n+doctor+working+at+Århus+university+hospital)

He clearly states that while you don't need to be completely fluent, you should have a working knowledge of Danish which is assessed by the respective Hospitals where you're applying. So language is indirectly, a requirement (as least upto a certain level).
Thanks Shreypete for the links they were really helpful :)
 
Hi.

I graduated from a US Med school, did transitional year and now am a doctor in Denmark.

In order to work here, you need to get your degree approved, preferably have finished internship, become fluent in Danish, pass 6 months of working in two different departments in Denmark and pass 3 tests dealing with Danish medical rules and culture. But the hardest of all things is getting a work permit. That is more and more reserved for people who have a green card. I am married to a Dane. That's the only way it worked out for me.
Hi lilybriscoe,
Thanks alot for sharing your valuable experience with us but there are few points that i want to be clear of .
After i get my degree identified can i immediately start applying for training positions in hospitals without having any knowledge in danish?i heard that some hospitals offer language courses for Foreign doctors in the first few months.
You said that any one who wants to apply have to work for six months in two different departments so is this like an internship or observe-ship or wut?
and i would also like to know how different did you find the training system in Denmark from that in the USA???
Sorry for asking a lot of questions and thanks again for the info:)
 
You have to consider that Danes, Swedes, Norwegians are a lot less religious in general. This means the potential for being isolated is greater, compared to more southern European countries. If you don't like xenophobia, and happen to be more internationally oriented, move to Malmö.
Thanx my friend for sharing some info with us. I went to Malmo before and i know that many of the immigrants escape from Denmark to it but we are here talking specifically about doctors so do you have like any special reasons that would make Malmo a better place for doctors than Denmark and other parts of Sweden or just that it is more friendly with the strangers????
 
Hi lilybriscoe,
Thanks alot for sharing your valuable experience with us but there are few points that i want to be clear of .
After i get my degree identified can i immediately start applying for training positions in hospitals without having any knowledge in danish?i heard that some hospitals offer language courses for Foreign doctors in the first few months.
You said that any one who wants to apply have to work for six months in two different departments so is this like an internship or observe-ship or wut?
and i would also like to know how different did you find the training system in Denmark from that in the USA???
Sorry for asking a lot of questions and thanks again for the info:)

NetPharoh,

Your first question about language is complicated. All patient contact and all contact with your colleagues would be in Danish. So you absolutely can't start working until you are reasonably comfortable speaking it. That being said, I am aware of four doctors who were offered positions before they could speak Danish. But they all had to take more than 6 months of intensive Danish before they felt comfortable working. A lot of people opt to take Danish in their home country before they move to Denmark. If you take it here, you will have to live off money you have saved up, though the course itself will be payed for if you have a residency permit. I know one cardiologist from Holland who had all of his language courses payed for, plus received a payment just for living expenses. These kind of deals seem to be reserved for doctors who have a specialty and are willing to live in rural areas of the country. But I haven't looked into it extensively.

The 6 months trial job (3 months in two departments) is something you are payed for and can be compared to an internship-like experience, but it depends on what your level is going into it and what specialty you chose to work in.

I would compare the training here to working in a VA in the US. There is A LOT of independent learning. All doctors work 37 hours a week. This is great, but means a lot less formal teaching and residencies take quite a bit longer. F.eks. ophtho here takes 4 years instead of 3, but when you get done, you still haven't been trained in any surgery (you do get trained in minor procedures), so you need to do a year fellowship in the type/types of surgery you are interested in.
 
Thank you lilybriscoe for taking the time to answer my questions, I really appreciate it
I would like to know do you think it would be easy to get a residency in Denmark if i'm somehow fluent in danish??? and do you think that an online course will be sufficient to obtain a good level of fluency in Dansih?
At the moment i'm learning German can this help me by any means to work in Denmark??
Thanx again :)
 
Well I can definitely tell you that an online course alone will not suffice in attaining a reasonable fluency in any language. Perhaps supplementing it with more language textbooks, grammar books, audio/video files (especially required for Danish due to it's very strange pronunciation and the tendency for Danes to mumble a lot lol). But using all this, I'm sure you can get to the A2 level.

Unfortunately, there isn't that much material for Danish online (unlike the material for German, French, Spanish, Dutch etc.) to get you above the A2 level which means you'll definitely have to take an intensive course in Denmark (you'll still have an advantage because you'll have only 2 or 3 more levels at the max. to complete as opposed to a complete beginner who will have to do 4 to 5 levels.)

I don't know what's the level of fluency they need - B2? or C1 level? (I'm pretty sure the C2 level is for those who are into postdoctoral/diplomatic/administrative fields and stuff.)
 
@shreypete:
I'm kinda confused here are you talking about German or Danish??? because as far as i know to be able to work in Germany you have to get to the b2 level and in some states b1 only and here in Egypt learning German is easy as there are many institutes and private tutors that teach German (which i had already started)

But i can not get much info about Danish as it is nearly impossible to learn it here in Egypt unless on line and even online (as you said) there is not many resources and also Denmark (unlike Germany) doesn't have clear rules about how much fluent you should be in the language before you can get a job there not even on the Danish medical council site.

I've heard also that some Egyptian doctors got jobs in Denmark without knowing a single danish word but they were required by their hospitals to learn the language during the internship period any way i'm trying to get in contact with one of them to make sure if this is true or not.
 
@shreypete:
I'm kinda confused here are you talking about German or Danish??? because as far as i know to be able to work in Germany you have to get to the b2 level and in some states b1 only and here in Egypt learning German is easy as there are many institutes and private tutors that teach German (which i had already started)

But i can not get much info about Danish as it is nearly impossible to learn it here in Egypt unless on line and even online (as you said) there is not many resources and also Denmark (unlike Germany) doesn't have clear rules about how much fluent you should be in the language before you can get a job there not even on the Danish medical council site.

I've heard also that some Egyptian doctors got jobs in Denmark without knowing a single danish word but they were required by their hospitals to learn the language during the internship period any way i'm trying to get in contact with one of them to make sure if this is true or not.

Some famous linguist once noted that if you can speak German, you can learn Danish in two weeks. In my experience, written Danish is very, very easy to learn if you speak English (the grammar is nearly identical), and many Danish words are similar to ones in either English or German. Spoken Danish gets tricky for two reasons: guttural stops and half-silent letters make pronunciations difficult, and second, much like English, Danish words do not have standardized pronunciations the way most languages do. For example, in English, swamp and lamp are pronounced differently. But what is really difficult about Danish, at least in my experience, is that spoken Danish tends to be flat and mumbled, and until you pick it up, it can be pretty difficult.

My understanding is that Denmark has a physician shortage, particularly in Jutland, and they are willing to take all EU physicians (I know this doesn't apply to you), but suffice it to say, I doubt all of these individuals speak Danish, so there must be some language accommodation. Besides, all Danish physicians will speak English and many will speak German as well. Also, almost all of the software used in Danish hospitals are in English (at least all the radiology and neurology things I saw)
 
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@shreypete:
I'm kinda confused here are you talking about German or Danish??? because as far as i know to be able to work in Germany you have to get to the b2 level and in some states b1 only and here in Egypt learning German is easy as there are many institutes and private tutors that teach German (which i had already started)

But i can not get much info about Danish as it is nearly impossible to learn it here in Egypt unless on line and even online (as you said) there is not many resources and also Denmark (unlike Germany) doesn't have clear rules about how much fluent you should be in the language before you can get a job there not even on the Danish medical council site.

I've heard also that some Egyptian doctors got jobs in Denmark without knowing a single danish word but they were required by their hospitals to learn the language during the internship period any way i'm trying to get in contact with one of them to make sure if this is true or not.
Yes, keep thinking that.

It's not exactly easy, even in Germany.

As far as the levels go, see how far B1 gets you in Germany. Even B2. One isn't functional at least until B2, at which point, they can order a Doner, maybe, but can't formulate intelligible sentences, or compound structures, nor write medical reports, nor be able to understand most of what is being said.
 
Some famous linguist once noted that if you can speak German, you can learn Danish in two weeks. In my experience, written Danish is very, very easy to learn if you speak English (the grammar is nearly identical), and many Danish words are similar to ones in either English or German. Spoken Danish gets tricky for two reasons: guttural stops and half-silent letters make pronunciations difficult, and second, much like English, Danish words do not have standardized pronunciations the way most languages do. For example, in English, swamp and lamp are pronounced differently. But what is really difficult about Danish, at least in my experience, is that spoken Danish tends to be flat and mumbled, and until you pick it up, it can be pretty difficult.

My understanding is that Denmark has a physician shortage, particularly in Jutland, and they are willing to take all EU physicians (I know this doesn't apply to you), but suffice it to say, I doubt all of these individuals speak Danish, so there must be some language accommodation. Besides, all Danish physicians will speak English and many will speak German as well. Also, almost all of the software used in Danish hospitals are in English (at least all the radiology and neurology things I saw)

Thanks a lot man for these valuable information i found them very beneficial
May i ask from which country are you??
 
Yes, keep thinking that.

It's not exactly easy, even in Germany.

As far as the levels go, see how far B1 gets you in Germany. Even B2. One isn't functional at least until B2, at which point, they can order a Doner, maybe, but can't formulate intelligible sentences, or compound structures, nor write medical reports, nor be able to understand most of what is being said.

I would have to disagree with you. I did only 6 semesters (4 hours/week) of German at university and I passed the Goethe Zertifikat Deutsch Exam (Level B1) with a grade of "gut" (the second highest grade). I practiced a lot outside of class so I picked it up much quicker than some of my other classmates who didn't really practice speaking the language outside of the classroom. I have several friends in Germany to whom I write emails regularly and they have absolutely no problem understanding my German. I also chat with them on the phone and on msn/yahoo messenger without much difficulty. My german is definitely intelligible and I can also write most compound sentences. I might not be able to write a perfect medical report, but I think once you are working in Germany, you would pick it up fairly quickly if you make the effort.

According to the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages:

B2 - Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialisation. Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party. Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a B2 "can order a Doner, maybe, but can't formulate intelligible sentences, or compound structures, nor write medical reports, nor be able to understand most of what is being said.":rolleyes:

According to this site B2 level German should be enough (http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=1.109.111.3349.3350.3374#b)

Für die ärztliche Berufsausübung sind entsprechende Deutschkenntnisse erforderlich. In der Regel wird das Niveau B2 Mittelstufe nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen als Mindestniveau für die Ausübung der ärztlichen Tätigkeit vorausgesetzt. Nähere Details zu den Sprachkenntnisnachweisen erfragen Sie bitte direkt bei der zuständigen Obersten Landesgesundheitsbehörde.
 
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Thanks a lot man for these valuable information i found them very beneficial
May i ask from which country are you??

I'm American, but I studied abroad in Denmark while I was in undergrad. If given the chance, I would much rather practice in Denmark than here in the US
 
Hi.

I graduated from a US Med school, did transitional year and now am a doctor in Denmark.

In order to work here, you need to get your degree approved, preferably have finished internship, become fluent in Danish, pass 6 months of working in two different departments in Denmark and pass 3 tests dealing with Danish medical rules and culture. But the hardest of all things is getting a work permit. That is more and more reserved for people who have a green card. I am married to a Dane. That's the only way it worked out for me.

Hi there,

Thank you so much for posting.

I just have a question regarding equivalency of medical education in Denmark.

I graduated from a 4 year caribbean M.D. school. I passed Step 1, Step 2 CK and CS and I'm ECFMG certified. Did 72 weeks of clinical rotations in the U.S. I have had trouble getting interviews this year because of multiple attempts on my boards (Step 1 second attempt and CS on third attempt). So I'm looking into other countries as options (mainly Germany, Denmark and Sweden)

Unlike in Europe, to get an M.D in the U.S one doesn't have to do an internship. You said that a transitional year/completed internship would be preferable. Do you know if there are any options available to someone who hasn't done a transitional/intern year?


Thanks.
 
I would have to disagree with you. I did only 6 semesters (4 hours/week) of German at university and I passed the Goethe Zertifikat Deutsch Exam (Level B1) with a grade of "gut" (the second highest grade). I practiced a lot outside of class so I picked it up much quicker than some of my other classmates who didn't really practice speaking the language outside of the classroom. I have several friends in Germany to whom I write emails regularly and they have absolutely no problem understanding my German. I also chat with them on the phone and on msn/yahoo messenger without much difficulty. My german is definitely intelligible and I can also write most compound sentences. I might not be able to write a perfect medical report, but I think once you are working in Germany, you would pick it up fairly quickly if you make the effort.

According to the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages:

B2 - Can understand the main ideas of complex text on both concrete and abstract topics, including technical discussions in his/her field of specialisation. Can interact with a degree of fluency and spontaneity that makes regular interaction with native speakers quite possible without strain for either party. Can produce clear, detailed text on a wide range of subjects and explain a viewpoint on a topical issue giving the advantages and disadvantages of various options.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that a B2 "can order a Doner, maybe, but can't formulate intelligible sentences, or compound structures, nor write medical reports, nor be able to understand most of what is being said.":rolleyes:

According to this site B2 level German should be enough (http://www.baek.de/page.asp?his=1.109.111.3349.3350.3374#b)

Für die ärztliche Berufsausübung sind entsprechende Deutschkenntnisse erforderlich. In der Regel wird das Niveau B2 Mittelstufe nach dem Europäischen Referenzrahmen als Mindestniveau für die Ausübung der ärztlichen Tätigkeit vorausgesetzt. Nähere Details zu den Sprachkenntnisnachweisen erfragen Sie bitte direkt bei der zuständigen Obersten Landesgesundheitsbehörde.
Thanks for the info my friend :) & good luck to you
 
I'm American, but I studied abroad in Denmark while I was in undergrad. If given the chance, I would much rather practice in Denmark than here in the US
Wow this is really interesting, this is the first time that i hear from some one (other than myself :D) that he would rather practice in Europe than in the US & may i ask why is that?
 
You also have to understand that, despite extremely high taxation, Denmark is one of the destinations for German physicians. The conditions in Denmark, Norway, and Sweden are vastly better for physicians than in Germany. So this is a sign of how much better things are working there, where the taxation is extremely high, but the incomes and work conditions make up for it.
 
Wow this is really interesting, this is the first time that i hear from some one (other than myself :D) that he would rather practice in Europe than in the US & may i ask why is that?

As someone else noted, it's about the quality of life. Yeah, a physician in the US can make 2-3 times as much as one in Denmark, but the Danish physician has a normal work schedule, A LOT less paperwork, they don't have to worry about being sued, and their patients tend to be much healthier. If I didn't have loans, and if I wouldn't have to jump through loops to get Danish citizenship/permanent residency, I would move back to Denmark--maybe I can find a job through Novo Nordisk once I payoff my loans
 
From my experience Danish and Swedish especially are not very accepting of any immigrants. I know the pay is not that good for physicians in Sweden either. An average physician will make about $80,000, and get taxed 50% on that leaving you only $40,000. As a physician not much money at all. I have a EU-Swedish citizenship as well as an American and I will definitely pursue to practice in the US. As someone else mentioned, one definite advantage to pursing medicine there is is the conditions that you will work in. They are very calm and much less stress. However, I do not think that compensates for the low pay.
 
And Danish and Swedish is not a funny language!
 
From my experience Danish and Swedish especially are not very accepting of any immigrants. I know the pay is not that good for physicians in Sweden either. An average physician will make about $80,000, and get taxed 50% on that leaving you only $40,000. As a physician not much money at all. I have a EU-Swedish citizenship as well as an American and I will definitely pursue to practice in the US. As someone else mentioned, one definite advantage to pursing medicine there is is the conditions that you will work in. They are very calm and much less stress. However, I do not think that compensates for the low pay.

Actually, not true. Sweden is very much accepting of international medical graduates, so long as they have the language skills to back it up. This is mainly due to the fact that most Swedish doctors are moving either to Norway, UK, or the US, which leaves a lot of room for other doctors to work in Sweden. Secondly, you can't really compare Swedish salaries with the American ones. They make up for their low salaries (which actually is more than enough to live comfortable in Sweden) by other perks like free healthcare, free education system, pension fund, lower working hours, longer paid-leave vacation etc...the list goes on. So it's like a compensation. It's due to all these perks that they charge high taxes.

And Danish and Swedish is not a funny language!

Swedish is very beautiful. On the contrary, Danish people speak with a hot potato in their mouth (or throat...I forget which one it is).
 
To some extent, it is made up, like in Germany, but at the end of the day, in Germany, coming home with €25k hurts...a lot. Then comes the stealth taxation, and stuff like 19% sales tax here, and nothing to show for it from the bloated government.

I will say that those Scandanavian countries are known to be well more open than Germany, a country where Xenophobia and racism still is a prevalent and persisting factor in all corners, including the more liberal west.
 
Actually, not true. Sweden is very much accepting of international medical graduates, so long as they have the language skills to back it up. This is mainly due to the fact that most Swedish doctors are moving either to Norway, UK, or the US, which leaves a lot of room for other doctors to work in Sweden. Secondly, you can't really compare Swedish salaries with the American ones. They make up for their low salaries (which actually is more than enough to live comfortable in Sweden) by other perks like free healthcare, free education system, pension fund, lower working hours, longer paid-leave vacation etc...the list goes on. So it's like a compensation. It's due to all these perks that they charge high taxes.

To doctors yes, but not to immigrants as people. They are very racist. I lived there 9 years, and experienced it everyday. Living comfortably, I guess thats how you define comfortable. Average house price in Sweden is about 2,000,000 SEK, if you want to live in a larger city like Stockholm, its about 3,500,000 SEK. That translates to about $2,200 to $4,000 a month for a 15 year mortgage at around 5% interest. When you factor in insurance, car payment, gas, food, utilities, cell phone...then you can't even afford an average house. Now if you want to live in a little apartment, not have nice cars, etc, I suppose you could live comfortably. Free healthcare, education, and pension is definitely a perk, but I am not a fan of free health care, I have experienced it in Sweden and Britain, and it's definitely a lower standard of health care, especially in Britain. The perks though, leads to a lot of lazy people you abuse the those perks and are just lazy and don't work, which is driving tax even higher.
 
I just think as a physician, and the training I go through, I should be able to live comfortably above average...but that's just me.
 
Plus the weather. ugh. horrid. 6 months of sunlight, 6 months of darkness really screws things up. The Scandinavian countries have really high suicide rate too so people really don't get along with the 6 months of darkness. And its really cold, snow and rain all the time. I prefer to have all my seasons, and you miss that.
 
What about in the south of those countries? It's not that bad there.
 
To doctors yes, but not to immigrants as people. They are very racist. I lived there 9 years, and experienced it everyday. Living comfortably, I guess thats how you define comfortable. Average house price in Sweden is about 2,000,000 SEK, if you want to live in a larger city like Stockholm, its about 3,500,000 SEK. That translates to about $2,200 to $4,000 a month for a 15 year mortgage at around 5% interest. When you factor in insurance, car payment, gas, food, utilities, cell phone...then you can't even afford an average house. Now if you want to live in a little apartment, not have nice cars, etc, I suppose you could live comfortably. Free healthcare, education, and pension is definitely a perk, but I am not a fan of free health care, I have experienced it in Sweden and Britain, and it's definitely a lower standard of health care, especially in Britain. The perks though, leads to a lot of lazy people you abuse the those perks and are just lazy and don't work, which is driving tax even higher.

Well, I personally don't like free health care (as it leaves many physicians unsatisfied with their lifestyle and salaries) but we were talking about whether Sweden is accepting of international medical graduates in this thread. But I do quite agree with the fact that having all these perks and a health care system like that (seen across Europe in general) makes doctors a lot more lethargic (taking into account the weather just make it all the more worse.) It's also the primary reason why the salaries for doctors are a lot lower when compared to their American counterparts (where it's privatized). But in terms of health care, these countries do nevertheless, offer an acceptable standard of treatment and make sure that "everyone" is entitled to fair and equal care (unlike in the U.S.) From a doctors' point of view, this is just a disadvantage because in countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark, the salaries are rather fixed (after negotiation with the regional hospital board) and this only discourages them more and more --a reason why most doctors are heading out to the US, Australia, Middle East etc. where doctors are highly compensated for their work.

So the question is would I want to work in Europe? Not really, because from my point of view, I only see low remuneration for all the years I've spent studying so hard and all that money I put in. I guess there must be some other, external factors which make foreign doctors work in Europe (e.g. personal interest, marriage, family, or when moving from a country that has a lower standard of training, healthcare and treatment). Learning another language is certainly not all that easy (and doing it in a short period of time just adds up to this difficulty).
 
Hi all i was just wondering does any one know good sites for learning Danish online??? and also does any one know how much time do i approximately need to get to level 2??

Thanks for your help
 
Nothing will replace class time, an instructor, and proper books. It somewhat baffles me about people being in medicine, or wishing for it, and looking for an easy way out on something as important as communication.
 
Hi all i was just wondering does any one know good sites for learning Danish online??? and also does any one know how much time do i approximately need to get to level 2??

Thanks for your help

Try this:

http://www.nyidanmark.dk/en-us/Integration/online_danish/learning_the_danish_language_online.htm


Sorry I had posted the below information in the wrong message:

This information is from the Goethe Institut (German), but my guess is that it would apply to Danish as well:


http://www.goethe.de/ins/de/prf/gb2/vor/enindex.htm

To get the German level B2 you would require 600-800 teaching units. 1 unit = 45 minutes, so that translates into 450-600 hours of instruction. How fast you get that depends on what course you will take (intensive vs. standard) At the Goethe Institute for example, an 8 week intensive course will cover 170 units. So you should be able to reach Level B2 if you take 4 - 6 months of intensive language classes. It also depends on your own ability to pick up languages...some people pick it up easier than others.
 
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Nothing will replace class time, an instructor, and proper books. It somewhat baffles me about people being in medicine, or wishing for it, and looking for an easy way out on something as important as communication.

You get baffled very easily...and very often, don't you? All he asked for was information about sites for learning Danish online, but there you go *again* with your condescending and patronizing responses, which more often than not have nothing to do with what is being asked.
 
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Perhaps think of it as tough love. It's the truth said in a manner that is not for those with sensitivity issues.

How far along are you in your quest to validate your off-shore education? If you had some tough love, perhaps some decisions could have been made differently, and then you wouldn't be struggling to get a residency anywhere in the world.

To some, medicine is tough (and for some, several times too tough), and communication is essential, especially for difficult languages. A suitable investment, and not a shortcut, is what is required.
 
Perhaps think of it as tough love. It's the truth said in a manner that is not for those with sensitivity issues.

How far along are you in your quest to validate your off-shore education? If you had some tough love, perhaps some decisions could have been made differently, and then you wouldn't be struggling to get a residency anywhere in the world.

To some, medicine is tough (and for some, several times too tough), and communication is essential, especially for difficult languages. A suitable investment, and not a shortcut, is what is required.

Alright tough guy!:rolleyes:

I'm well on my way in my quest to validate my education. That's because I got helpful information from people and not some condescending useless crap which you seem to be an expert at.

I've contacted the medical authorities in Germany, emailed residency programs there and gotten very helpful information from a german friend of mine who has already helped me with my application. I have already signed up for the B2 level German exam. I will be going to Germany in April. Sorry to disappoint you.

It's funny that you out of all people is making a judgment on other peoples life decisions. Considering that you ended up in Germany and seem to be very very unhappy with your life there. If I'm not mistaken you are in your early 30s and just started med school? So you're going to be in your late 30s by the time you finish. At that time, by your own admission, you stated that because of your age no one in Germany will offer you a residency position. If you do get a job, it will be in some ****ty location where no one else wants to go. So now you're thinking about what you're going to do when you're done? Thinking of moving back to the U.S? Or Sweden or Denmark or some other EU country? Right? Might have to learn a whole new language? Yeah, good luck with all that. Follow your own advice " If you had some tough love, perhaps some decisions could have been made differently".

Also, learning something online is not necessarily a shortcut, but an alternative way to learn. I'm currently living in the middle of Texas where there are no Goethe Institutes or intensive German classes that I can take. So as an alternative I am learning German by listening to online german radio and reading articles from the Sueddeutschezeitung. I'm learning all the time. I have already passed Goethe's B1 Zertifikat Deutsch Exam. Good for you if you learned German in the classroom all throughout, but that option is not always available or financially feasible for everyone.
 
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Stop bouncing between two extremes: you first in another thread claim the "world is out to get me", as if it doesn't exist, then now claim that same thing to try and bug me with it?

Then you think age means anything? Do you really think I didn't do anything productive in during my life, as in getting a degree, putting a career together, and in fact, having enough savings to last me years here. In your mind, I'm stuck in a bad place because of my age, as you can't fathom that I actually did ok, and even in fact, spending three years planning and working extra hours to get even more cash to move.

If I do get a ****ty spot here, it's not due to myself, it's due to Germany's archaic labor laws that exclude people due to age and even gender, a case that even Brussels has asked Germany to change and they are refusing. This is also in addition to Germany continuing to ask for restrictions to be placed on newer EU nations, against the laws of the EU, which requires the same laws be applied to the citizens of their own countries.

This is no skin off my back, and why Germany's medical situation is so bad that they are the ones losing from the rigidity of their system. Again, it doesn't bother me, as I'm an EU citizen, and can go anywhere.

As far as being in my thirties goes, there are a good number of mostly males in my class, already balding, older than me, or nearer to my age. It's actually not so odd here, including for career change.

However, good luck here. You will certainly need it. Try and hide being American, by the way. You're not disappointing me. You have to make it through the exam, then you have to make it through everyday life. IMO, the latter is way tougher than the former, especially at merely a B2 level, as there's a huge jump from B2 to C1 and C2 and being everyday proficient.

It's no tough love for me. I'm doing fantastic in my classes, the school is actually pretty good and supportive, and omg, the students even warmed up to me and are supportive, though the other foreigners are a bit out on that in their classes.

And hell, when I'm done, I'll still have money left over from my savings, and will be able to go nearly anywhere in the world, so I have some years to figure out if I'll go back to the US, Canada, or any one of various European countries- all with none to few restrictions on my immigration, owing to my dual citizenship and the fact that I learned to speak several languages fluently throughout my life.

Let me ask you: are you running away from the loans you took on because you went to school in the Caribbean? What is your debtload?
 
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