Residency in "Greenbook" states

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howelljolly

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If I do not have 100% ACGME certified rotations, is it not worth my time to apply for residency in a state which requires that for licensure?

I know a couple of people that are starting residency in a 100% greenbook state, who had dont non-greenbook rotations. I have heard that in some states which are 100% greenbook can petition for your licence.

Does anyone know if I need to research and self-select myself out of residency programs where I'll have a problem with licensing? Will it matter if the residents work on a temporary training licence?

At what point, if any, will doing non-AGCME certified rotations become an issue during residency?

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Licensing for all foreign grads is usually on a case-by-case basis, so you might have some wiggle room, but why give them any reason to deny your request?

There is no reason to take a non-ACGME core rotation or required elective rotation. Unless you know for sure that you would never want to live in PA or Texas.

Some people just want to graduate and don't care if they will not be able to get a license in some states.

At SGU and AUC, you will have the option of going to the UK/Ireland for core rotations and they are all greenbook, so that could solve some problems.
 
If I do not have 100% ACGME certified rotations, is it not worth my time to apply for residency in a state which requires that for licensure?

I know a couple of people that are starting residency in a 100% greenbook state, who had dont non-greenbook rotations. I have heard that in some states which are 100% greenbook can petition for your licence.

Does anyone know if I need to research and self-select myself out of residency programs where I'll have a problem with licensing? Will it matter if the residents work on a temporary training licence?

At what point, if any, will doing non-AGCME certified rotations become an issue during residency?

In what I know its not a problem till after residency, this is a Lic issue, while in Residency you will get a training Lic then after step 3 or 3 years if taken step 3 then you can apply for full Lic and that is when it comes up, maybe, it changes depending on the board and who is on it from year to year.:confused:

Remember these are CORE rotations not electives, electives do not have to be green book.
 
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Remember these are CORE rotations not electives, electives do not have to be green book.

Some states like PA require all ACGME for FMGs.
 
Some states like PA require all ACGME for FMGs.
Are you sure? FMG students cannot do rotations in PA, I know they are tough but I thought I knew some who are Lic there who did not do all ACGME like for electives, I'll look into it when I have 5 min. Thanks for the heads up.
 
Some states like PA require all ACGME for FMGs.

Yep, I've counted about 18 states that require 100% greenbook rotations.

To rephrase my initial question: Should I not bother to apply to those states for residency?

While in most cases its a Licensing issue, I am led to believe that some residency programs require you to get your own full license in your third year (Is this correct?). So, I guess it might become an issue in residency...
 
Like my good friend oldpro mentioned, the greenbook issue is only for licensing. You can do residency in any state (and in Cali as long as you have the Cali letter).

Now, the protocol for residency programs is an individual thing and you would need to ask the PD about it.



Yep, I've counted about 18 states that require 100% greenbook rotations.

To rephrase my initial question: Should I not bother to apply to those states for residency?

While in most cases its a Licensing issue, I am led to believe that some residency programs require you to get your own full license in your third year (Is this correct?). So, I guess it might become an issue in residency...
 
Some states like PA require all ACGME for FMGs.

I am confused about this. By "all ACGME", do you mean that all 20 months of clinical training usually delivered in the 3rd and 4th year of medical school need to be in ACGME approved programs? This would essentially invalidate anyone not in the Carib.

I quickly looked at the PA Board of Medicine site. The application for non-accredited (non-LCME) medical schools does not have any mention of this. The law doesn't either (as far as I can see) -- IMG's are required to have 3 years of GME experience rather than 2 for US MG's.

Can you point me to a reference?
 
Yep, I've counted about 18 states that require 100% greenbook rotations.

To rephrase my initial question: Should I not bother to apply to those states for residency?

While in most cases its a Licensing issue, I am led to believe that some residency programs require you to get your own full license in your third year (Is this correct?). So, I guess it might become an issue in residency...

Well I can tell you in My state where I will practice, GA requires GreenBook for Core not Electives, I think it is the same for most the others that require GreenBook, I think it is always best to make sure though, and doing greenbook is always best for FMG's, this is not a requirement if you do the clinicals in another country though.
 
It should be:

17.1(b)(2)

§ 17.1. License without restriction.

(a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and § 17.2 (relating to license without restriction—endorsement), to secure a license without restriction an applicant shall:
(1) Have passed a licensing examination acceptable to the Board by having achieved one of the following:
(i) A passing score on Step 1, Step 2 and Step 3 of the USMLE as determined by USMLE completed within a 7-year period.
(ii) A score of 75 on FLEX I and a score of 75 on FLEX II, as determined by the Federation.
(iii) A score of 75, obtained in an individual attempt, on the licensing examination provided by the Federation from June 1968 to December 1984.
(iv) A passing score as determined by the NBME on the National Boards.
(v) A passing score on Part I of the National Boards or Step 1 of the USMLE plus Part II of the National Boards or Step 2 of the USMLE plus Part III of the National Boards or Step 3 of the USMLE completed within a 7-year period.
(vi) A score of 75 on FLEX I and Step 3 of the USMLE completed within a 7-year period.
(vii) A passing score on Part I of the National Boards or Step 1 of the USMLE plus Part II of the National Boards or Step 2 of the USMLE plus FLEX II completed within a 7-year period.
(viii) A passing score, as determined by the Medical Council of Canada, on the examination of the Medical Council of Canada taken in or after May 1970, if the examination was taken in English.
(ix) A passing score, as determined by the licensing authority of another state, territory or possession of the United States, on a state board examination taken prior to December 1973, if the examination was taken in English.
(2) Have graduated from an accredited medical college or from an unaccredited medical college.
(3) Have been certified by the ECFMG if the applicant is a graduate of an unaccredited medical college.
(4) Have successfully completed the following graduate medical training requirement:
(i) A year of graduate medical training at a first or second-year level if the applicant is a graduate of an accredited or unaccredited medical college and participated in a graduate medical training program prior to June 30, 1987.
(ii) Two years of graduate medical training at a first and second-year level if the applicant is a graduate of an accredited medical college and did not participate in a graduate medical training program prior to June 30, 1987.
(iii) Three years of graduate medical training at a first, second and third-year level if the applicant is a graduate of an unaccredited medical college and did not participate in a graduate medical training program prior to June 30, 1987.
(5) Satisfy the general qualifications for a license specified in § 16.12 (relating to general qualifications for licenses and certificates).
(b) An applicant who is a graduate of an unaccredited medical college, who files an application for a license after December 31, 1988—the application is not considered filed with the Board until it is complete—shall, in addition to satisfying the requirements in subsection (a), have completed:
(1) Four academic years totaling at least 32 months and 4,000 hours of instruction in medical curriculum. Regular attendance shall be verified. Credit will not be given toward this requirement for instruction obtained in other than an accredited or unaccredited medical college, except for clinical rotations assigned under the auspices of the medical college in which the applicant was enrolled while participating in the clinical rotations.
(2) Seventy-two weeks of clinical rotations in an institution which has a graduate medical training program in the clinical area for which credit is sought, or, if the institution is not within the United States, is either a part of a medical college or has a formal affiliation with a medical college.

I am confused about this. By "all ACGME", do you mean that all 20 months of clinical training usually delivered in the 3rd and 4th year of medical school need to be in ACGME approved programs? This would essentially invalidate anyone not in the Carib.

I quickly looked at the PA Board of Medicine site. The application for non-accredited (non-LCME) medical schools does not have any mention of this. The law doesn't either (as far as I can see) -- IMG's are required to have 3 years of GME experience rather than 2 for US MG's.

Can you point me to a reference?
 
Correction: PA has removed that language and may not specifically ask for 72 weeks anymore.

D. Description of the Proposed Rulemaking

The proposed amendments to §§ 17.1(b) and 17.5(c)(2) delete the requirements that graduates of foreign medical schools demonstrate 32 months and 4,000 hours of instruction and 72 weeks of clinical instruction. Section 17.1(b) is further amended to indicate that applicants may use the FCVS to verify their credentials.
 
Makes you wonder why they changed it and if there is a pattern forming for other states.

--Orpheus--

That explains it. Also, I has naively assumed that "affiliated with a medical college" could refer to a medical school outside the US. Silly me.
 
Makes you wonder why they changed it and if there is a pattern forming for other states.

--Orpheus--

I see nothing wrong with it since US students do not have this Requirement.
 
I see nothing wrong with it since US students do not have this Requirement.

You must remember that good, honest students are the exception in the Caribbean. Vast numbers of those plebians are sewer rats who would do damage to our health care system if allowed to scam and cut corners.
 
You must remember that good, honest students are the exception in the Caribbean. Vast numbers of those plebians are sewer rats who would do damage to our health care system if allowed to scam and cut corners.
What corners? Step 1 2 and 3 have to be passed and then a residency, you know people get fired when they are not able to practice, there are many safeguards.
 
That explains it. Also, I has naively assumed that "affiliated with a medical college" could refer to a medical school outside the US. Silly me.

It does and it did.

I graduated from a medical school in Australia and did my residency (and was first licensed) in PA.

The only requirement we had was that rotations done in PA could not count toward the 72 weeks required for clinical rotations. There was no requirement that Cores, or electives, or anything be done in the US or at an ACGME approved hospital as long as those 72 weeks were done at a hospital "affiliated with a medical college".

I do know that a friend who had arranged a rotation with a physician in private practice had some difficulty because he was not "affiliated with a medical college" and therefore could not count those 4 weeks toward his 72 required.
 
It does and it did.

I graduated from a medical school in Australia and did my residency (and was first licensed) in PA.

The only requirement we had was that rotations done in PA could not count toward the 72 weeks required for clinical rotations. There was no requirement that Cores, or electives, or anything be done in the US or at an ACGME approved hospital as long as those 72 weeks were done at a hospital "affiliated with a medical college".

I do know that a friend who had arranged a rotation with a physician in private practice had some difficulty because he was not "affiliated with a medical college" and therefore could not count those 4 weeks toward his 72 required.

My school has the Physicians sign contracts for affiliation reasons for electives. I have no idea how this is viewed though, there are Lic Physicians from the school in NY and a few other states. So I guess I will find out.:confused:
 
Yep, I've counted about 18 states that require 100% greenbook rotations.

To rephrase my initial question: Should I not bother to apply to those states for residency?

While in most cases its a Licensing issue, I am led to believe that some residency programs require you to get your own full license in your third year (Is this correct?). So, I guess it might become an issue in residency...


Hello,
I'm very new to this thread but my fiance is an IMG from the carib. May I ask which 18 states require 100% greenbook rotations for state licensure? Also, where is this information published? thanks so much
 
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