Residency or retail???

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30Percent said:
Would doing a residency make you more "future" proof?

Aren't some people saying pharmacy is evolving towards the clinical side like MTM, amb care, etc.

It seems like a lot of my classmates are interested in amb care residencies.
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not till pharmacists get paid real money for those services

But if you do amb care/mtm rotation, there's no reason why you can't jump into retail as well. Maybe your patients will benefit from your knowledge.
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Go into retail today, your chance of getting out is slim.

I have applications from retail druggists wanting to get out all day long everyday of the week.
Those get tossed unfortunately.

Hospital experience is a plus. Residency training gets to the top of the pile.

PGY2... overqualified for my joint.

It's simple.. do the residency.. no one can take that away from you. Your chance of getting hired inpatient is exponentially higher. Go straight into retail... more chance you'll get stuck.

Your experience may vary. There are exceptions. But you're more likely the norm than the exception.
 
Your financial situatuation leaves you few choices. It would be best for you to "get stuck" in your 100k+ retail job. Pharmacists are generally poor managers. If you learn how to manage the people you interact with you can create a positive work environment that you will enjoy. The chances of landing one of the unicorn jobs after performing a residency are slim. It's a pipe dream they are selling. What you will be able to provide for your family will give you great satisfaction.
 
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Its Z said:
Go into retail today, your chance of getting out is slim.

I have applications from retail druggists wanting to get out all day long everyday of the week.
Those get tossed unfortunately.

Hospital experience is a plus. Residency training gets to the top of the pile.

PGY2... overqualified for my joint.

It's simple.. do the residency.. no one can take that away from you. Your chance of getting hired inpatient is exponentially higher. Go straight into retail... more chance you'll get stuck.

Your experience may vary. There are exceptions. But you're more likely the norm than the exception.
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...and if you go into clinical/hospital staffing, you will get stuck with lower income potential and a job that's as stressful.

Why do all of these people seem to think that (or to be kind and assume they aren't stupid, "consider" that ) its not a two way street? You think CVS is going to hire someone with a residency when they have interns with 4+ years experience in their system that they can't hire? You get locked in no matter what you do, people. Saying this is a "perk" of working in one area is misleading at best.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
...and if you go into clinical/hospital staffing, you will get stuck with lower income potential and a job that's as stressful.
.
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I thought hospital will be much less stressful and tiring. Or not? :confused:
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
...and if you go into clinical/hospital staffing, you will get stuck with lower income potential and a job that's as stressful.

Why do all of these people seem to think that (or to be kind and assume they aren't stupid, "consider" that ) its not a two way street? You think CVS is going to hire someone with a residency when they have interns with 4+ years experience in their system that they can't hire? You get locked in no matter what you do, people. Saying this is a "perk" of working in one area is misleading at best.
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I'm not sure about the lower income earning potential part but you're probably spot on with the rest of your post.

I think it depends on the institution and whether or not it provides annual raises, adjustments for cost of living, investment options, etc.

There are pharmacists I work with that are earning significantly more than a retail pharmacist simply because they've been on board so long.

From what I've been told, retail eventually caps out but you can continue to earn more at a hospital...so you start lower at a hospital but eventually earn more in the long run. Not sure how true that is in general but anecdotally it seems to be true.
 
SHC1984 said:
I thought hospital will be much less stressful and tiring. Or not? :confused:
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I did hospital for 3 years while I was in school and it drove me crazy the crap you deal with from nurses and doctors who think they're godlike and that everything should be done in 5 minutes or less. You get paid less and at times can deal with the same amount of stress as retail. It was only worth it to me if you work weekends only or maybe nights. But if you don't have night techs, hospital can be a b*tch especially when it comes to making IVs by yourself and handling orders. They both have their ups and downs and it all comes down to one's perspective, though.
 
rxlea said:
I'm not sure about the lower income earning potential part but you're probably spot on with the rest of your post.

I think it depends on the institution and whether or not it provides annual raises, adjustments for cost of living, investment options, etc.

There are pharmacists I work with that are earning significantly more than a retail pharmacist simply because they've been on board so long.

From what I've been told, retail eventually caps out but you can continue to earn more at a hospital...so you start lower at a hospital but eventually earn more in the long run. Not sure how true that is in general but anecdotally it seems to be true.
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Not true. GENERALLY - you start low and cap out slightly below retail, maybe at retail. Department managers might make more, but being a pharmacy director is hell. Look at how much xiphoid2010 complains.

If you get into academia and become a grant earning beast or a dean, you can get into the $200s. Last I checked (and this is on the WV state auditor's site where they publish incomes) WVU's dean makes something ridiculous like $240k. A few of the researchers that bring in the cash like Rojanasakul make some damn good bank. These are mostly the people with PhDs, though. The regular Joe/Joette clinical instructor with their two years of residency and PharmD gets like $100-$110k.
 
SHC1984 said:
I thought hospital will be much less stressful and tiring. Or not? :confused:
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My wife used to say I came home with a soulless looking gaze on my face like I saw someone that got murdered in front of my eyes. One time I'm told I literally shuffled in the door, flopped my shoes off, fell face first onto my bed (work clothes still on), and fell asleep for a solid 10 hours. Didn't say a word to her. And it wasn't a conscious slight or anything...its just sort of what I did out of exhaustion from a mid-Winter, all alone in the hospital, 180 patient census hellhole journey.

Honestly, I hear retail pharmacists whine about their stress and I laugh. I remember this one night...I was all alone with 2 techs...census about 140 or so...we had three patients code literally simultaneously. I'm sitting there in the IV hood with a cordless phone being screamed at by 3 different sets of staffs...cordarone drip for these people...epi drip for the other...I actually had to try to figure out which was the most urgent on the spot, the action on a different floor, down the hall way. I'm sitting there with three people dying and i I don't work fast enough, it could kill them. Literally kill them. And these people whine because they had three people call them on the phone simultaneously while a few other people were in the store...maybe someone in the drive thru. Whoopity ****. Someone has to wait an extra few minutes for their Levitra. The stress I was constantly under in retrospect was just flat out dangerous. To me and the patients.

And what makes it worse is that I don't drink. If I could go home and drown my anxiety, I might have been better off. Oh well. I was so stressed out that I began grinding my teeth at night and suffered from some serious insomnia. I think I might have been depressed, too. Kind of like I was living in state of a fear of impending doom because every night there was unbearably busy, hectic, and mind numbing.

And I haven't even mentioned medication reconciliation sheets. They are the most frustrating, potential serial killer-creating things in the industry. I'll hear the stupid voice on the CVS phone say "One Pharmacy Call" on loop for 3 hours before I have to lay my eyes on another one of those abortions.

Christ.

And they only paid me $41.88 an hour. I make so much more than that now, it pains me even more to think about it.
 
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browneyes021 said:
I did hospital for 3 years while I was in school and it drove me crazy the crap you deal with from nurses and doctors who think they're godlike and that everything should be done in 5 minutes or less. You get paid less and at times can deal with the same amount of stress as retail. It was only worth it to me if you work weekends only or maybe nights. But if you don't have night techs, hospital can be a b*tch especially when it comes to making IVs by yourself and handling orders. They both have their ups and downs and it all comes down to one's perspective, though.
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Thanks for the information. Glad my GPA is too low for a residency now and I didn't apply! :laugh:

What's the BEST pharmacy job then???

Only thing I can think of is work at HOME mail order pharmacist (I know two on SDN) or Managed care (PBM) jobs (ask Mountain he loves his).

Other than that I can't think of anymore cushy jobs.

Oh retail at Costco ain't bad either.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
My wife used to say I came home with a soulless looking gaze on my face like I saw someone that got murdered in front of my eyes. One time I'm told I literally shuffled in the door, flopped my shoes off, fell face first onto my bed (work clothes still on), and fell asleep for a solid 10 hours. Didn't say a word to her. And it wasn't a conscious slight or anything...its just sort of what I did out of exhaustion from a mid-Winter, all alone in the hospital, 180 patient census hellhole journey.

Honestly, I hear retail pharmacists whine about their stress and I laugh. I remember this one night...I was all alone with 2 techs...census about 140 or so...we had three patients code literally simultaneously. I'm sitting there in the IV hood with a cordless phone being screamed at by 3 different sets of staffs...cordorone drip for these people...epi drip for the other...I actually had to try to figure out which was the most urgent on the spot, the action on a different floor, down the hall way. I'm sitting there with three people dying and i I don't work fast enough, it could kill them. Literally kill them. And these people whine because they had three people call them on the phone simultaneously while a few other people were in the store...maybe someone in the drive thru. Whoopity ****. Someone has to wait an extra few minutes for their Levitra. The stress I was constantly under in retrospect was just flat out dangerous. To me and the patients.

And what makes it worse is that I don't drink. If I could go home and drown my anxiety, I might have been better off. Oh well. I was so stressed out that I began grinding my teeth at night and suffered from some serious insomnia. I think I might have been depressed, too. Kind of like I was living in state of a fear of impending doom because every night there was unbearably busy, hectic, and mind numbing.

And I haven't even mentioned medication reconciliation sheets. They are the most frustrating, potential serial killer-creating things in the industry. I'll hear the stupid voice on the CVS phone say "One Pharmacy Call" on loop for 3 hours before I have to lay my eyes on another one of those abortions.

Christ.

And they only paid me $41.88 an hour. I make so much more than that now, it pains me even more to think about it.
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Thank you for this information...again glad I didn't apply for a residency.

Would you work CVS in the daytime too?

The hospital I am at pays $52 an hour...$41.88 is too low IMO.
 
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SHC1984 said:
Would you work CVS in the daytime too?
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Not unless they made me. I wouldn't be shattered, though. I work in a well run district, so its not that bad. I've worked day shifts before. Though they can be hectic, its never as bad as people on here claim it is. I'd volunteer for a circumcision before I'd set foot in that hospital again. I'm sure there are nice hospitals to work in, but the one I was at was hell.
 
SHC1984 said:
Thanks for the information. Glad my GPA is too low for a residency now and I didn't apply! :laugh:

What's the BEST pharmacy job then???

Only thing I can think of is work at HOME mail order pharmacist (I know two on SDN) or Managed care (PBM) jobs (ask Mountain he loves his).

Other than that I can't think of anymore cushy jobs.

Oh retail at Costco ain't bad either.
Click to expand...

We all have stuff we hate about our jobs, just some people can tolerate certain aspects of it better than others can in their position and vice versa. Hearing WVU talk about codes was always my fear of working alone in a hospital because there are literally people who are coding and their lives are hanging in the balance. You'll never have a person die in retail because it took you too long to get out their medication, even the pain meds that they act like they'll die if you don't fill that vicodin script fast enough.

If I had to do dayshift, I guess I'd pick Costco or Sam's, but I hate dealing with most people's personalities. Working retail has just made me angry at the general public because most are impatient and just flat out rude and disrespectful. Night shift is where it's at in my opinion.
 
WVU - your experience sounds terrible and I HOPE it is the exception. My site is absolutely the polar opposite of what you describe. I cannot believe that was legally allowed. Is there not some ratio for pharmacy staff:bed like there is for nursing? There absolutely should be. What you have described is so scary, I can only imagine what the error rate, falls rate, infection, readmission, etc, etc was like there. Had to have been awful.

I don't want people to think that it's all doom or all unicorns.
 
SHC1984 said:
I thought hospital will be much less stressful and tiring. Or not? :confused:
Click to expand...

It's all going to depend on the job and the individual's experience. Personally I love my chair, my lunch break, and my awesome team.
 
SHC1984 said:
Thanks for the information. Glad my GPA is too low for a residency now and I didn't apply! :laugh:

What's the BEST pharmacy job then???

Only thing I can think of is work at HOME mail order pharmacist (I know two on SDN) or Managed care (PBM) jobs (ask Mountain he loves his).

Other than that I can't think of anymore cushy jobs.

Oh retail at Costco ain't bad either.
Click to expand...

I might have you confused with someone else, but didn't you mention in another thread your GPA dropped to a 3.8 or something?

Isn't a 3.8 still very competitive?
 
30Percent said:
I might have you confused with someone else, but didn't you mention in another thread your GPA dropped to a 3.8 or something?

Isn't a 3.8 still very competitive?
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:laugh: I wish! It's at a ~3.5 now. I don't care anymore though. Retail it is.

I just want a work at home mail order job.

Overnight is fine too. I'll just make sure to take a lot of drugs for sleep.
 
browneyes021 said:
We all have stuff we hate about our jobs, just some people can tolerate certain aspects of it better than others can in their position and vice versa. Hearing WVU talk about codes was always my fear of working alone in a hospital because there are literally people who are coding and their lives are hanging in the balance. You'll never have a person die in retail because it took you too long to get out their medication, even the pain meds that they act like they'll die if you don't fill that vicodin script fast enough.

If I had to do dayshift, I guess I'd pick Costco or Sam's, but I hate dealing with most people's personalities. Working retail has just made me angry at the general public because most are impatient and just flat out rude and disrespectful. Night shift is where it's at in my opinion.
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Do you work for CVS too?
 
My experience at my hospital has been nothing like WVU's: love my gig, pension, amazing vacation, weekdays, no holidays/weekends, well staffed, low stress, office area, progressive management, starting pay competitive with retail, 401k matching without employee contribution, and majority of time spent in drug info, mtm, consult, order verification, and interdisciplinary reviews. I am 2 years out of pharmacy school and did not do a residency

Just wanted to give a positive spin on the thread :)
 
what about managed care/amb care? Where do you guys think that field is headed?

I enjoy retail at times but I really wanted to do something a little different as well. Something that works at the backbone of these formularies and companies to make some real tweaks and changes, you know?
 
SHC1984 said:
I thought hospital will be much less stressful and tiring. Or not? :confused:
Click to expand...

I worked retail for 2.5 years straight out of school and now I'm staffing at a large hospital. I did take a huge pay cut, but I actually like my job. My hospital is fully staffed with techs and pharmacists and the pharmacists never make IVs, the techs do it all. I calculated how many hours on average I was working in retail by staying late and coming early compared to my current hospital pay, I was making basically the same I'm making at the hospital in terms of hourly wage. My retail job was salaried so if I stayed late or came early, I wasn't paid for it, whereas at the hospital, if I stay late, I'm paid for it since we clock in and out. I would never go back to retail full time, but I still work retail prn.
 
thephoenician88 said:
what about managed care/amb care? Where do you guys think that field is headed?

I enjoy retail at times but I really wanted to do something a little different as well. Something that works at the backbone of these formularies and companies to make some real tweaks and changes, you know?
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Did you apply for any managed care residency?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
...and if you go into clinical/hospital staffing, you will get stuck with lower income potential and a job that's as stressful.

Why do all of these people seem to think that (or to be kind and assume they aren't stupid, "consider" that ) its not a two way street? You think CVS is going to hire someone with a residency when they have interns with 4+ years experience in their system that they can't hire? You get locked in no matter what you do, people. Saying this is a "perk" of working in one area is misleading at best.
Click to expand...

Do hospital pharmacists on the east coast get paid less than retail?

Cuz it's at parity here in the west...some hospital pharms actually pay more than retail (like a buck or two).
 
confettiflyer said:
Do hospital pharmacists on the east coast get paid less than retail?

Cuz it's at parity here in the west...some hospital pharms actually pay more than retail (like a buck or two).
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I see that on here a lot and I make less hourly (about $2 less/hr) than my PRN retail gig but after call pay, I make much more than I would FT in retail.
 
I get about $50k more a year working retail than I did working in a hospital. If you go from $87k to $138k, when someone tells you that its "about the same" you gotta chuckle a tad. Granted, I only got $41.88 back in 2009...which from what I understand is total crap...but that's my experience.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
I get about $50k more a year working retail than I did working in a hospital. If you go from $87k to $138k, when someone tells you that its "about the same" you gotta chuckle a tad. Granted, I only got $41.88 back in 2009...which from what I understand is total crap...but that's my experience.
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Well you also went from WV to the bougie burbs of PA, that clouds the numbers a bit.

Random n=1 sampling today...

F/T at UC Irvine Medical Center in Orange County, CA = $58-$64/hr listed range (link)

I'm seeing retail hourly rates at $60-$61/hr in the San Francisco Bay Area (non-SF/East Bay), personal knowledge.

I know, two different markets but COL is about the same. Also, throw in benefits, and the total compensation at UCIMC is a lot higher (it's technically a gov't job).

That's why I don't get it when people say retail makes so much more...maybe I just live in a bubble. The difference has always been <$5/hr overall ever since 2008 when I started school.
 
The hospital I am doing my rotations at now pays $52 an hour...that's similar to some retail chains.

My friend that just graduated in 2011 was offered almost $60 an hour at Target and only $37 an hour at a hospital! This is in North Carolina....so maybe it is the East coast?
 
SHC1984 said:
I am thinking about CVS night shifts now too. You think Walgreen's night shifts will be just as good?
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I woud think they're all similar. I'm sure someone on this board does night shift for Walgreens and could tell you about their duties at night.
 
SHC1984 said:
I am thinking about CVS night shifts now too. You think Walgreen's night shifts will be just as good?
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Night shifts, if you have the personality for them, are fabulous.
I asked to do a week of them during my retail IPPE. Both stores I've worked at have the night person doing five 10s and two 11s.
You do most/all of the compounds, from the time you arrive til about midnight or so it can be fairly steady (nothing like lunchtime or rush hour though), and the hour or so before you leave it usually picks up. My state does QA, so that ate up a chunk of the night (2-3 hours).

Most places will probably have you filling the next day's prescriptions, and that can vary in workload. You're alone, but never really alone - you get to know the overnight floor staff and the night manager (usually the same crew all the time), and any other 24 hour stores you can always call the overnight person in case there's something you really need help with. The overnight guy at my current store gets calls all the time from ER staff asking antibiotic questions.

The biggest con to me are the customers -- they come in at 2am for a reason, most of the time it's coming home from the ER, but once in a while it's because they're looking for a place to sleep.

If you can tolerate retail, like compounding, can work independently, and can stay up all night for a week, go for overnights. Stay out of the Myrtle Beach area, that's where I want to go :)
 
I'm still on the fence about this -___- Dunno if retail is going to last 30 years from now :/ Don't want to be switching careers when I'm 45-50. But then again, not sure how secure hospital pharmacy is either or if I can do another year of 12-hour days + reading
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
A few of the researchers that bring in the cash like Rojanasakul make some damn good bank. These are mostly the people with PhDs, though. The regular Joe/Joette clinical instructor with their two years of residency and PharmD gets like $100-$110k.
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Haha I have Rojanasakul for Pharmaceutics right now, didn't know he makes bank :)

Did you work at Ruby Memorial at all? Was your hospital experience at a WV hospital or elsewhere?
 
npage148 said:
The people that bash retail just can't handle it. They can't multi-task, switch gears rapidly
And manage a workflow. Honestly my current retail job is pretty nice. 3-4 day rotations at a well run inner city store. Some times it's a little hectic but I also have relaxing days.

Residencies are fine if that's what you want to do but people like to do differnt
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I fully admit that I can't handle retail. I get really stressed and get physically ill from the stress (stomach aches etc). Some people are cut out for it but not me.
 
MountainPharmD said:
Yeah good point! Can we have someone review this guys file and see why he hasn't been banned? Check out that Z guy too while you are at it. He is a jerk and discriminates against retail druggist what ever that is!
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Yeah I hate that guy too....hes a jackass.
 
How does SHC keep getting banned? I thought you have to say vulgar things to get banned
 
browneyes021 said:
How does SHC keep getting banned? I thought you have to say vulgar things to get banned
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There was an argument in another thread. The other poster deleted all of their comments, so it is hard to tell exactly what transpired. However, you can still see her comments.
 
smercer said:
There was an argument in another thread. The other poster deleted all of their comments, so it is hard to tell exactly what transpired. However, you can still see her comments.
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the other poster started calling SHC names, which as you can imagine, SHC did not hold back lol now the argument is why the other poster wasn't banned and only SHC was... I say the mod who banned SHC should stand up and explain him/herself! hahahahahaha
 
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