Residency post-DDS (for IMGs)

[mayo]

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Hi All

I have been looking through the threads for some advice on residency after advanced standing for International dentists. I was unable to find adequate info, hence i decided to start a thread on it.
Basically, am hoping that all interested members can have a discussion on the diverse aspects and ramifications of this subject.

Just to start the ball rolling, here are some of my own questions

1) Which schools typically have the best match rates for residency programs especially for International dentists

2) Given the concern about GME funding, what residency options are available to International dentists (considering that we already have loans from the advanced standing program)

3) How competitive do your scores have to be to get in (given that you are an international student)

4) Externship or Internship options/opportunities during the advanced standing program

5) How to negotiate visa issues

6) ..... add in whatever questions you have on this subject

Looking forward to having a very informative session 🙂

 

[herodontist]

A topic that has been starved for data.

In my opinion, the real problems with residency after an advanced standing program are 1) visa issues and 2) undergraduate education.

If you wish to combine a residency with a research degree like the MS or PhD, issues of eligibility for funding come up. Most reseach programs accept federal funding, which is available only to permanent residents or US citizens.

Some programs, most commonly OMFS with intergrated MD option, also ask for your undergraduate GPA. They do not recognise that many countries do not require undergrad study before entering dental school.

In terms of competitiveness, as least on paper, as long as you have a DDS/DMD degree, you should be on an equal footing with the regular 4-year students. In reality, this may be subject to great variation depending on the specialty and the specific program.

 

[FIXENSMILES01]

scince I am a member of the ADEA I will call them and start my research on questions you have and post my findings here. So please give me your concerns and questions and after the holidays I will have enough data to weigh in on our issues. I will note the issues stated by the two previous posts. So if you have questions write them here and I will contact the admins for ADEA. Also if you have further input as to how to go about finding factual answers to these problems I have the time to do it.👍 -Bill

 

[mayo]

A topic that has been starved for data.

In my opinion, the real problems with residency after an advanced standing program are 1) visa issues and 2) undergraduate education.

If you wish to combine a residency with a research degree like the MS or PhD, issues of eligibility for funding come up. Most reseach programs accept federal funding, which is available only to permanent residents or US citizens.

Some programs, most commonly OMFS with intergrated MD option, also ask for your undergraduate GPA. They do not recognise that many countries do not require undergrad study before entering dental school.

In terms of competitiveness, as least on paper, as long as you have a DDS/DMD degree, you should be on an equal footing with the regular 4-year students. In reality, this may be subject to great variation depending on the specialty and the specific program.

Hey herodontist and Bill

Do you know of anyone that has successfully navigated these issues as an international (not a citizen or green card holder)? Most especially for the more competitive programs eg Surgery and Ortho.

I think it is useful to start thinking of life post-DDS before one even goes into the program, it helps to have all such info so one can plan internships/externships and other such issues accordingly.

Thanks for offering to do some research on the subject Bill, looking forwward to hearing back from you

 

[Sexydentist]

Hey Mayo ,

I think i've heard of a couple of people getting into MS /residency programs right after thein 2 yrs DDS program.They were international students on F1 visas .I'll find out more and let you know .

SD

 

[mayo]

Hey Mayo ,

I think i've heard of a couple of people getting into MS /residency programs right after thein 2 yrs DDS program.They were international students on F1 visas .I'll find out more and let you know .

SD

Any takers out there, willing/able to contribute to this discourse?

 

[BlueToothHunter]

I matched to an ortho residency after my advanced standing. It wasn't easy because when I applied, I was applying still as a foreign trained dentist who was in an advanced standing program. But I still got in.

Not meaning to hijack this thread... but is anyone going to the GNYDM this weekend? Should any SDNer's want to get together in NYC for a dinner? Drop me a line!

 

[WireBender2010]

Read below

 

[WireBender2010]

I am an international trained dentist with a few years of graduate school in a U.S. university. I got matched to Orthodontics residency program. From my experience the requirements vary from school to school. Schools such as Harvard and Michigan may emphasize a lot more on research. My board scores are 91 in part 1, GPA of 3.82, a few additional degrees, and some research experience (I am actually still in the process of learning it....and I am by no stretch of imagination very competent in this aspect). I think it is the overall profile that matters and not just one aspect.

WireBender2010

 

[cheer_up]

I matched to an ortho residency after my advanced standing. It wasn't easy because when I applied, I was applying still as a foreign trained dentist who was in an advanced standing program. But I still got in.

Hey BlueToothHunter,

Congrats on your ortho match.

So, did you finish your ASP in the end? I know a few people who got matched into ortho as FTDs without doing an ASP or IDP. Will these people be fully licensed to practice orthodontics once they finish the residency program or do they have to complete some additional program or take some additional exams in order to be fully licensed just like the FTDs having to do an ASP/IDP just to be licensed to practice as general dentists? For some reason, I was always under the impression that an FTD has to have a North American DDS/DMD degree before he/she can apply for the residency programs such as ortho or pedo.

Do you think that having completed an ASP/IDP before applying for ortho residency will make a FTD more competitive as opposed to just applying as a FTD with a BDS degree instead of a DDS/DMD degree?

What are your stats like and what other qualifications do you have which made you competitive, if you don't mind sharing?

Sorry for the long post.
Thanks for your info in advance.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

Hey Ms. Cheer_up

Some states will grant you the state-only dental license IF you have completed an ADA-accredited specialty program via state-only clinical board exams. Such states are limited. But I know of many internationally trained dentists who have gone that way. But I know many who stayed on as faculty and hence never needed to apply for state licenses anyway!

Some programs will require you to have a North American dental degree as you correctly stated. But with the demise of the GME funding for the dental post-grad programs, nowadays foreigners with lots of cash seem to be the favourite pick. Well, that's my personal biased view just for the note.

Only consider doing the Advanced Standing route if you want to stay in the US for a long long time. Otherwise, get into a specialty as soon as possible and don't delay your Board certification!

My stats weren't that impressive as some scholarly comrades on this board. I did an MS and AEGD plus DDS before I decided that I didn't want to be a GP dentist. I was so close to applying to Endo, but one day I woke up and had the urge to be an orthodontist. I never looked back. I now have just 18 months before I qualify as an orthodontist... can't wait!!!

 

[cheer_up]

Hey Ms. Cheer_up
I now have just 18 months before I qualify as an orthodontist... can't wait!!!

Man, I so wish I could be in your shoes.....I'm just soooo jealous!!!!😀 😀 But hey, I'm happy for ya. Great job!!!!🙂

So, will you be able to take the national board as well any state licensing board and be fully licensed to practise ortho in all of the US states? Sorry, I'm still a bit confused about that. I guess my biggest concern is not so much about being able to get into the program (which is tough enough in itself) but more about the ablity to practise in all of the US states and Canada once one finishes the program with a BDS degree. I think that in Canada, one still has to go through an ASP even after finishing an ortho residency in order to practice as an orthodontist. I think I inquired about this from an university a few years ago. That's why I'm wondering if the same applies to the US.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

Since I took NERB and SRTA, I can apply for a licensure anywhere within their jurisdiction. However, some states require you to have permanent residency before you apply for a state dental license. I haven't taken the Canadian boards, but with my US dental degree, I can take them whenever I want to. That is why in the long run, if you plan on living and working in the US or Canada, it's better to have a US/Canadian dental degree. But if you only want to be in the academics, then don't bother and just get your specialty board certification.

 

[cheer_up]

Hey,

Thanks for the reply. I only want to stay in North America. So, I guess doing an ASP/IDP is the way to go for me for now.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

No worries, I'd like to help out if I can. Just remember, no body is forcing you to do anything. We are all free to do whatever route we choose. I've met many successful international dentists who made it in the US without the US degree. I've also met several international dentists who went through extra 2 to 3 years of advanced standing training and came out with a huge debt and were never able to recover that. Most people fall in between. If you have the time and resources then advanced standing may be a good option. But if you are a babyboomer or have a family commitment, then know where your priorities lie.

There are endless possibilities out there. You just have to look for one that suits you best.

On my final note, good luck and good night! Happy Holidays everyone...

Cheers,

 

[ambitious]

No worries, I'd like to help out if I can. Just remember, no body is forcing you to do anything. We are all free to do whatever route we choose. I've met many successful international dentists who made it in the US without the US degree. I've also met several international dentists who went through extra 2 to 3 years of advanced standing training and came out with a huge debt and were never able to recover that. Most people fall in between. If you have the time and resources then advanced standing may be a good option. But if you are a babyboomer or have a family commitment, then know where your priorities lie.

There are endless possibilities out there. You just have to look for one that suits you best.

On my final note, good luck and good night! Happy Holidays everyone...

Cheers,

Hi Blue tooth hunter,
How are you doing?Good luck for your Orthodontics residency.I am curious for some informations from you if you dont mind.From which school have you completed your DDS or DMD advanced standing program?Where are you doing your Orthodontic residency program right now? I think you have borrowed similar amount of money for this residency program. How are you managing this huge amount of money(For the DDS plus the Ortho residency)? I have a strong desire to complete the ortho residency after my Advanced standing program.But i am worried about the huge debt. Is there any school where we can manage a residency program cost by a scholarship?
Anothr question for you although it is personal. Why have you chosen Ortho over Endo? Sorry for the long mail. Wish you a very happy holiday.

 

[Little fairy]

Hi,
I can shed some light on this issue from my experience. I completed my 2 yr DDS program this year and got into a GPR program. I am applying for Pedo this year and have finished my interview cycle. The residency programs do look at u with respect because of your prior training in ur country and ur motivation to pursue addtional training in the US to get ur DDS and even further a specialty. Quite a few of my international colleagues applied to GPR programs and got in. One of my juniors applied for Ortho without a GPR/AEGD and did not match this year although he had his board scores in high 90s.
Bottomline- it is doable with a strong CV, Personal statement and letters, more so after a DDS than without.
I will find out if I matched or not in the end of January and then can write more on this issue!!