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Residency programs cutting residents salaries

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njtrimed

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Hey friends! Can we get a running list of programs that are slashing resident salaries this year? Rutgers is doing so, after promising hazard pay to residents, and hasn’t actually informed us yet; we heard this from our CIR. Someone in my incoming intern chat argued that this is being done elsewhere, but to my knowledge, other NJ/NY programs promised hazard pay and are not cutting salaries for residents.

M4s, take notice, and consider this when choosing where to apply.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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Does it really matter if you earn 58k vs 63k? It isn’t really a salary but rather a stipend for living expenses. Be happy we get anything considering the liability and general nuisance we are to teach.
 
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littlecow

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Be happy we get anything considering the liability and general nuisance we are to teach.

Residents actually make money for hospitals with their underpaid labor. Compare a fresh grad PA at age 24 making 100k for working 40 hours a week with an IM PGY3 at age 28 working 80 hours/week with 20x the training and talent but making 50k. PAs are paid at market value, residents are indentured servants.

That's not even counting the fact that THEY ARE SUBSIDIZED BY THE GOVERNMENT to the tune of 125k-200k per year.

Educate yourself so you don't become a bootlicker.
 
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Oedipa Maas

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Does it really matter if you earn 58k vs 63k? It isn’t really a salary but rather a stipend for living expenses. Be happy we get anything considering the liability and general nuisance we are to teach.
This is sarcasm right? I’m not a resident in this situation but if I were, that’s six months of rent for me you are talking about. Which I would argue, does very much matter. If anyone else feels like 5k is pocket change they could do without, let me know, I’ll send you my paypal info...
 
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njtrimed

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Does it really matter if you earn 58k vs 63k? It isn’t really a salary but rather a stipend for living expenses. Be happy we get anything considering the liability and general nuisance we are to teach.
Seriously? Yes, it matters. I could have chosen a different program that isn’t reneging on the contract we signed. And my seniors put their lives on the line in an area hard hit by the pandemic, having isolated themselves from their spouses and children, lauded as “healthcare heroes.” Now they’re all taking paycuts and paying off $200-500K loans, while the football coach who isn’t coaching still gets his $4+ million salary.
 
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njtrimed

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This is sarcasm right? I’m not a resident in this situation but if I were, that’s six months of rent for me you are talking about. Which I would argue, does very much matter. If anyone else feels like 5k is pocket change they could do without, let me know, I’ll send you my paypal info...
Seriously! Maybe some of us can absorb this loss, but I’m raising two kids on my salary.
 
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frenchyn

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Cutting resident Salary is stupid...no doubt about that...but it can be worse to be honest...considering current situation...lot of people without job...business lose money...will you rather prefer them cutting residency spots, hire less people with same work load aka more people will go unmatched? What will you do? Quit or don’t apply to residency? How many of us apply to match confidently say we will match and get to pick where we will go? Even if you know about this salary cut before, do you really get to choose where to apply and where to go especially with competitive specialties?
 
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sharkbyte

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Call it what you want but getting paid as a resident is a luxury. And we don’t want to mess it up bu starting another petition whining about how unfair life is for us.

I never thought I'd see the day when making $60K or less as a resident working anywhere from 60-100 hours a week and doing all the leg work would be considered a "luxury".
 
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MerYangBey

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Call it what you want but getting paid as a resident is a luxury. And we don’t want to mess it up bu starting another petition whining about how unfair life is for us.
Stopppp it. Getting paid to do a job is not a luxury. I don’t know where this attitude comes from. People like you are probably the reason why residents don’t actually make more. Making enough money to just pay the bills and pay back loans is not an extravagant pay check.
 
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njtrimed

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Call it what you want but getting paid as a resident is a luxury. And we don’t want to mess it up bu starting another petition whining about how unfair life is for us.
Cool. Since you don’t need a salary, please forfeit yours so the rest of us get what was in our contract.
Cutting resident Salary is stupid...no doubt about that...but it can be worse to be honest...considering current situation...lot of people without job...business lose money...will you rather prefer them cutting residency spots, hire less people with same work load aka more people will go unmatched? What will you do? Quit or don’t apply to residency? How many of us apply to match confidently say we will match and get to pick where we will go? Even if you know about this salary cut before, do you really get to choose where to apply and where to go especially with competitive specialties?
Resident salaries shouldn’t be used to subsidize projected losses in revenue, particularly when those salaries are provided by the federal government, not the university.

Also, many of us ranked this place #1 because we care about the mission. We didn’t choose programs with better benefits and salary, but we also didn’t choose to be subject to paycuts when they’re actually not even remotely necessary.
 
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frenchyn

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Cool. Since you don’t need a salary, please forfeit yours so the rest of us get what was in our contract.

Resident salaries shouldn’t be used to subsidize projected losses in revenue, particularly when those salaries are provided by the federal government, not the university.

Also, many of us ranked this place #1 because we care about the mission. We didn’t choose programs with better benefits and salary, but we also didn’t choose to be subject to paycuts when they’re actually not even remotely necessary.
So the million dollars question is who will get cut? We all know it won’t be the CEO. Tho I know hospitals where top dogs or attendings get either pay cut, furlough or no pay during this COVID...so I am not surprised residents will get pay cut too.
 
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M&L

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Call it what you want but getting paid as a resident is a luxury. And we don’t want to mess it up bu starting another petition whining about how unfair life is for us.
ok, so from what i understand you went to medical school pretty much right out of college? (your post in 2018: " Why does this shock you? Some people are able to get into medical school immediately after college and thus do not need to have a paying job before going to medical school (and later starting residency). I know I was one of these people who never had any prior employment prior to starting medical school, and I do not feel like I have any less maturity or practical skills when compared to any of the non-trads in my class. "). Also, another post where you say something along the lines that a person should never get married? in spring 2018 you were finishing 2nd year, so you must be about 27 now, +/- a year, single. Yeah, of course you dont care about money as much. Why would you?
There are a lot of us though you have lives , -who HAD lives, careers, jobs before medical schools. There are those of us who have families, kids, elderly parents that depend on us. for us getting paid for a HARD job as a resident is not a luxury, it is a necessity.
 
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Ho0v-man

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They shouldn’t call it cutting resident salary. They should call it what is: stealing from the federal government. IMO, it’s not their money to take.
 
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ciestar

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So the million dollars question is who will get cut? We all know it won’t be the CEO. Tho I know hospitals where top dogs or attendings get either pay cut, furlough or no pay during this COVID...so I am not surprised residents will get pay cut too.
A CEO salary cut sure af wouldnt go to pay government funded residents.
 
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beaglesbagles

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Small Cell Carcinoma sounds like they don't manage their own money. Really bad business sense isn't the most uncommon trait among physicians. The relatively high salaries keep a lot of doctors quiet while the lawyers and entrepreneurs make the real money. We need some people to be the underpaid cogs in the wheel so let Small Cell Carcinoma be the self-appointed cog while the rest of us move onward and upward. Hopefully people who think like Small Cell Carcinoma wake up when their mortgage and student loan payments are due in a couple of years. Or if they are trust fund babies, shame on your parents for not teaching you about money. PS - Trust fund babies can stay in their lane while residents fight the good fight for fair compensation.
 
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Espressso

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I can't believe this kid said being paid as a resident is a luxury. @Small Cell Carcinoma have you seen how residents work? How much they work? And how grueling it is? Of course they should get paid. And they should be paid more. It's basically slave labor for these hospitals. And everyone in the system knows it. From the CEOs to the attendings, down to the interns.
 
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2021Doctor

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Does it really matter if you earn 58k vs 63k? It isn’t really a salary but rather a stipend for living expenses. Be happy we get anything considering the liability and general nuisance we are to teach.
Congratulations. I nominate you for the biggest troll post of the year.

Cleveland Clinic in Ohio received $86.9 million in 2013 for training 728 residents, which amounts to about $119,000 per resident. Residents at the hospital receive a salary of roughly $50,000. Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City was paid $133.8 million for supporting 770 residents. That breaks down to about $173,000 per resident, while the average resident at Mount Sinai earns a salary of about $60,000.

“I think after 30 to 40 years of this kind of funding, it gets pretty addicting,” said Dr. Richard Krugman, a distinguished professor of pediatrics who served as dean of the University of Colorado School of Medicine for more than 20 years.

Hahnemann
When the news of the shutdown broke in June, 550 residents, facing careers in peril, began anxiously seeking out other hospitals that would give them homes to complete their education. Resident physicians make up the lifeblood of the U.S. health care system—we are the ones who ensure that no patient falls through the cracks. Yet, rather than help place these physicians-in-training at appropriate nearby health systems, Hahnemann turned a blind eye to its status as an academic medical center. Instead, it decided to auction all 550 residency positions to the highest bidder. The business model of private equity, long known for flipping businesses and their assets for a profit, has now turned to residency slots as a new way to increase returns.
The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, or CMS, funds a fixed number of graduate medical education positions with $15 billion in taxpayer funds, paying $100,000 to a hospital per hired trainee. But a typical salary range for residents is around $50,000 to $65,000 (though each hospital will pay an additional $15,000 per resident in educational and malpractice spending). This means that not only are hospitals generating at least a 20 percent profit margin on this government funding, but the amount also excludes the market value of the medical services provided by those residents—which the hospitals still bill for—and the additional $168,000 to $218,000 in total operating cost savings for hospitals per employed resident. It’s no surprise, then, that hospitals are fervently bidding for Hahnemann’s coveted residency slots. A consortium of Northeast hospitals bid $55 million for the 550 positions. A bid of $60 million came in from a California health care firm shortly after.
 
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2021Doctor

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The owner of Hahnemann University Hospital can sell its medical residency program to a consortium of six local health systems led by Thomas Jefferson University Hospitals, a judge has ruled, in a blow to the federal government.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Kevin Gross announced his decision from the bench in Wilmington on Thursday afternoon.
Jefferson combined forces with three Philadelphia systems — Einstein Healthcare Network, Temple University Health System and Main Line Health — and Cooper University Health Care in Camden and Christiana Care Health System in Wilmington to win the final bid in a lengthy auction process.

Hundreds of years ago, poor immigrants were forced to become indentured servants to repay the cost of their passage to the U.S. by performing years of hard labor. This practice lives on for U.S. physicians-in-training, who have no choice but to serve years of indentured servitude to teaching hospitals in order to qualify for a medical license or board certification. We know them as medical residents.
All teaching hospitals collude to some extent to treat residents as indentured servants. Hospital administrators and faculty members know full well the market value of residents, but undervalue their contributions. Through The Match, hospitals, and overseers of graduate medical education have leveraged their power to not only secure government funding for residency slots but also to cap residents’ salaries. Leveraging the teaching mission to bolster profit margins is nakedly opportunistic, and is underscored by the sale of Hahnemann’s residents.
Congress and the public need to hold teaching hospitals accountable for improving wages and working conditions of the residents they claim to train.
Kim-Lien Nguyen, M.D., is a cardiologist and an assistant professor of medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. The views expressed are those of the author.
 
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medoneday77

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Hi all, can we please ignore the trolls and get back on topic? As an M4 about to enter a virtual interview season filled with chaos and little information, any indications of culture are paramount. I honestly don't want to be at a program that addresses health care worker pandemic stress by cutting salaries of already-subsidized residents. What other programs are doing/did this so my peers and I can look critically at those programs?
 
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FutureSurgical

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It’s been told that University of Colorado is withholding increase in salary for residents because of a “financial crisis.” Even though they have an emergency fund of $500 million
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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Seriously? Yes, it matters. I could have chosen a different program that isn’t reneging on the contract we signed. And my seniors put their lives on the line in an area hard hit by the pandemic, having isolated themselves from their spouses and children, lauded as “healthcare heroes.” Now they’re all taking paycuts and paying off $200-500K loans, while the football coach who isn’t coaching still gets his $4+ million salary.

What is your point? You aren’t a football coach, and until you finish residency you aren’t really a doctor. You aren’t expected to start paying back your loans until you reach that point anyway. As I said earlier, you are not paid highly in residency because you are not needed. Regardless of whether you are there or not, the attendings can still do their job. It takes effort to train residents, to manage the program, conferences, etc and yet they still pay us despite the massive liability we pose to patient safety. Why don’t you think about this more carefully before getting mad about a slight paycut that really doesn’t affect anything.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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ok, so from what i understand you went to medical school pretty much right out of college? (your post in 2018: " Why does this shock you? Some people are able to get into medical school immediately after college and thus do not need to have a paying job before going to medical school (and later starting residency). I know I was one of these people who never had any prior employment prior to starting medical school, and I do not feel like I have any less maturity or practical skills when compared to any of the non-trads in my class. "). Also, another post where you say something along the lines that a person should never get married? in spring 2018 you were finishing 2nd year, so you must be about 27 now, +/- a year, single. Yeah, of course you dont care about money as much. Why would you?
There are a lot of us though you have lives , -who HAD lives, careers, jobs before medical schools. There are those of us who have families, kids, elderly parents that depend on us. for us getting paid for a HARD job as a resident is not a luxury, it is a necessity.

It’s not that I don’t care about money. I know a battle worth fighting and I know that as residents we are far more of a burden than a member of the health team. So I choose to be grateful we get paid anything at this stage instead of just complaining that the world is unfair.. As for having a family/dependents, no one told you to have any of that. I’m sure you knew what the consequences would be before starting down this path.
 
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ciestar

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What is your point? You aren’t a football coach, and until you finish residency you aren’t really a doctor. You aren’t expected to start paying back your loans until you reach that point anyway. As I said earlier, you are not paid highly in residency because you are not needed. Regardless of whether you are there or not, the attendings can still do their job. It takes effort to train residents, to manage the program, conferences, etc and yet they still pay us despite the massive liability we pose to patient safety. Why don’t you think about this more carefully before getting mad about a slight paycut that really doesn’t affect anything.
Lol residents arent needed. Hilarious.
 
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RangerBob

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What is your point? You aren’t a football coach, and until you finish residency you aren’t really a doctor. You aren’t expected to start paying back your loans until you reach that point anyway. As I said earlier, you are not paid highly in residency because you are not needed. Regardless of whether you are there or not, the attendings can still do their job. It takes effort to train residents, to manage the program, conferences, etc and yet they still pay us despite the massive liability we pose to patient safety. Why don’t you think about this more carefully before getting mad about a slight paycut that really doesn’t affect anything.

I’d wager a good percentage attendings wouldn't know how to enter orders/write an H&P without residents...

I also question the legality of cutting resident salaries when most of the funds are coming from the gov’t.

A hospital must be in really dire financial straights if it’s cutting resident salaries.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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I’d wager a good percentage attendings wouldn't know how to enter orders/write an H&P without residents...

I also question the legality of cutting resident salaries when most of the funds are coming from the gov’t.

A hospital must be in really dire financial straights if it’s cutting resident salaries.

Attendings have to recheck everything we do and rounds take 2-3x as long as they normally would when there are residents you need to explain everything to. In the end the work that is done by residents is just compensation for this lost efficiency.
 
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FutureSurgical

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Attendings have to recheck everything we do and rounds take 2-3x as long as they normally would when there are residents you need to explain everything to. In the end the work that is done by residents is just compensation for this lost efficiency.
You DO know residents are there to be trained, right? To become attendings? This isn’t a bunch of premeds shadowing a doctor for a week.

Also, the way you describe residents is as if they’re toddlers.
 
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kb1900

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Attendings have to recheck everything we do and rounds take 2-3x as long as they normally would when there are residents you need to explain everything to. In the end the work that is done by residents is just compensation for this lost efficiency.
Lmfao you’re so blind to reality OR at a program with exceptionally low workload/acuity OR exceptionally useless residents. It almost feels like you’re not a resident/never even carried a pager/never had a full census.

our rounds took 20x longer on days that our senior residents were out for interviews and backup was not found. Literally just returning pages for 20 patients can be a q5-10 minute responsibility. Add on documentation, pharmacy stuff, consults, admissions, procedures etc.

even on non teaching services the attendings use PA/NPs to do 95% of scut work to increase efficiency. Yet somehow residents add inefficiency LOL


Pretty sure I’m just feeding a troll tho.
 
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Oedipa Maas

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With respect to whether or not residents should get paid at all, that’s not the topic of the thread. But I would like to correct some misinformation - residents ARE expected to start paying loans back during residency. No, they aren’t expected to “aggressively” pay them off and most choose income based re-payment because their salaries are so low in comparison to the amount they owe. Payment goes toward interest before it goes to the actual loan amount. So interest continues to accrue on these loans and the overall amount you owe increases. I’m not really sure what a system where residents don’t get paid looks like but I can tell you I wouldn’t want to be a part of it. 8 years of loans? And no payment? And some are coming with undergrad debt too? I can’t imagine anyone would sign up for a doctorate degree, earn it, and then want to spent 3+ years putting it to use but not getting paid for it.

For anyone looking for info on what hospitals are not doing right by their residents, attendings, and staff during COVID, I’ve found the twitter account Covid19Docs (COVID19 Physicians (@Covid19Docs) on Twitter) to have a decent archive. You will have to do some of your own follow up on some of the things that happened earlier on in the pandemic but it’s a great jumping off point. They have also started to post about other things that may be of note to prospective residents like sexual harassment and discrimination. I know it’s an anonymous person running an account but I have been impressed that they have posted responses of people within those institutions disagreeing about their take which I have appreciated.
 
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M&L

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It’s not that I don’t care about money. I know a battle worth fighting and I know that as residents we are far more of a burden than a member of the health team. So I choose to be grateful we get paid anything at this stage instead of just complaining that the world is unfair.. As for having a family/dependents, no one told you to have any of that. I’m sure you knew what the consequences would be before starting down this path.
You ignorance is appalling . “No one told you to have any of that”. I am honestly speechless . No one told me to have parents that are getting older ? Or have financial obligations ? I honestly hope that You will grow up one day and realize how incredibly limited - minded you sound saying things like this .
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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You ignorance is appalling . “No one told you to have any of that”. I am honestly speechless . No one told me to have parents that are getting older ? Or have financial obligations ? I honestly hope that You will grow up one day and realize how incredibly limited - minded you sound saying things like this .

No I meant that no one told you to get married or have kids or buy a house before finishing your training. We all could use money but your personal needs do not necessitate you being paid more. Bottom line is that resident salaries are essentially living expense stipends at the end of the day. And 50-60k is more than enough to live in most parts of the country. Just depends on how frugal you are and whether you waste your money on weekends going to bars, eating out, and living beyond your means.
 
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njtrimed

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I’d wager a good percentage attendings wouldn't know how to enter orders/write an H&P without residents...

I also question the legality of cutting resident salaries when most of the funds are coming from the gov’t.

A hospital must be in really dire financial straights if it’s cutting resident salaries.
This is actually Rutgers University, which does not own or operate any hospitals. Resident funding doesn’t even come from the university. And the university has over $580 million in unrestricted reserves and has not cut the $4 million salary of the football coach, who will likely not be working in 2020. Meanwhile, the residents were working in the pandemic in some of the hardest Hit hospitals, in makeshift ICUs and COVID units set up in the hospital cafeteria...this is the thanks they get, just after Rutgers finally agreed to hazard pay.
 
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njtrimed

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The owner of Hahnemann University Hospital can sell its medical residency program to a consortium of six local health systems led by Thomas Jefferson University Hospitals, a judge has ruled, in a blow to the federal government.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Kevin Gross announced his decision from the bench in Wilmington on Thursday afternoon.
Jefferson combined forces with three Philadelphia systems — Einstein Healthcare Network, Temple University Health System and Main Line Health — and Cooper University Health Care in Camden and Christiana Care Health System in Wilmington to win the final bid in a lengthy auction process.

Hundreds of years ago, poor immigrants were forced to become indentured servants to repay the cost of their passage to the U.S. by performing years of hard labor. This practice lives on for U.S. physicians-in-training, who have no choice but to serve years of indentured servitude to teaching hospitals in order to qualify for a medical license or board certification. We know them as medical residents.
All teaching hospitals collude to some extent to treat residents as indentured servants. Hospital administrators and faculty members know full well the market value of residents, but undervalue their contributions. Through The Match, hospitals, and overseers of graduate medical education have leveraged their power to not only secure government funding for residency slots but also to cap residents’ salaries. Leveraging the teaching mission to bolster profit margins is nakedly opportunistic, and is underscored by the sale of Hahnemann’s residents.
Congress and the public need to hold teaching hospitals accountable for improving wages and working conditions of the residents they claim to train.
Kim-Lien Nguyen, M.D., is a cardiologist and an assistant professor of medicine at the David Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA. The views expressed are those of the author.
Yes! Thank you for taking the time to post all of this.
 
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njtrimed

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With respect to whether or not residents should get paid at all, that’s not the topic of the thread. But I would like to correct some misinformation - residents ARE expected to start paying loans back during residency. No, they aren’t expected to “aggressively” pay them off and most choose income based re-payment because their salaries are so low in comparison to the amount they owe. Payment goes toward interest before it goes to the actual loan amount. So interest continues to accrue on these loans and the overall amount you owe increases. I’m not really sure what a system where residents don’t get paid looks like but I can tell you I wouldn’t want to be a part of it. 8 years of loans? And no payment? And some are coming with undergrad debt too? I can’t imagine anyone would sign up for a doctorate degree, earn it, and then want to spent 3+ years putting it to use but not getting paid for it.

For anyone looking for info on what hospitals are not doing right by their residents, attendings, and staff during COVID, I’ve found the twitter account Covid19Docs (COVID19 Physicians (@Covid19Docs) on Twitter) to have a decent archive. You will have to do some of your own follow up on some of the things that happened earlier on in the pandemic but it’s a great jumping off point. They have also started to post about other things that may be of note to prospective residents like sexual harassment and discrimination. I know it’s an anonymous person running an account but I have been impressed that they have posted responses of people within those institutions disagreeing about their take which I have appreciated.
Thank you, will check that out! I have lots of friends in NYC hospitals worked in garbage bags and cloth masks in the initial weeks of the pandemic. They’re receiving hazard pay and their contracts are being honored, as the ACGME formally recommended to ALL residency programs.
 
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njtrimed

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It’s been told that University of Colorado is withholding increase in salary for residents because of a “financial crisis.” Even though they have an emergency fund of $500 million
Thank you for getting this post back on track! That sounds like what is happening at Rutgers.
 
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Kumorebi

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No I meant that no one told you to get married or have kids or buy a house before finishing your training. We all could use money but your personal needs do not necessitate you being paid more. Bottom line is that resident salaries are essentially living expense stipends at the end of the day. And 50-60k is more than enough to live in most parts of the country. Just depends on how frugal you are and whether you waste your money on weekends going to bars, eating out, and living beyond your means.
*slow clap* Did mommy and daddy pay for your Caribbean education? I know plenty of residents who come from low income families and actively support them. You telling other people that they don't need the money they've worked so hard to earn through 4 years of medical school and who knows what other challenges blows my mind.
 
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7331poas

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It’s not that I don’t care about money. I know a battle worth fighting and I know that as residents we are far more of a burden than a member of the health team. So I choose to be grateful we get paid anything at this stage instead of just complaining that the world is unfair.. As for having a family/dependents, no one told you to have any of that. I’m sure you knew what the consequences would be before starting down this path.

Lmao. You really think the pgy 7 neurosurgery resident pumping out spine cases is not needed by the hospital?
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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*slow clap* Did mommy and daddy pay for your Caribbean education? I know plenty of residents who come from low income families and actively support them. You telling other people that they don't need the money they've worked so hard to earn through 4 years of medical school and who knows what other challenges blows my mind.

Kind of irrelevant but yeah they did pay, and I have no debt and am quite proud of that. I never said residents should not be paid. I only said that it’s foolish to go complaining about it because it is a luxury to get paid in a training position as an unlicensed physician whether you see it or nor. To clarify, we need the training programs they do not need us. Anyone who actually believes that healthcare can’t function properly without residents is either lying to themselves or has some kind of inferiority complex. Hence the fact that there are people here who advocate biting the hand that feeds us over a couple grand is absolutely astonishing to me.
 
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ciestar

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Kind of irrelevant but yeah they did pay, and I have no debt and am quite proud of that. I never said residents should not be paid. I only said that it’s foolish to go complaining about it because it is a luxury to get paid in a training position as an unlicensed physician whether you see it or nor. To clarify, we need the training programs they do not need us. Hence the fact that there are people here who advocate biting the hand that feeds us over a couple grand is absolutely astonishing to me.
Well this post explains it all. Must be nice to be that entitled.

Getting paid to work isn’t a luxury. Residents are underpaid. It’s that simple. You’ve never had to worry about money like some of us have. A couple grand actually is a big deal.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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Well this post explains it all. Must be nice to be that entitled.

Getting paid to work isn’t a luxury. Residents are underpaid. It’s that simple. You’ve never had to worry about money like some of us have.

Lol ok because there was no pressure on me having my family pay for 8 years of training. I’ve clearly never once thought about money in my life either just because my parents could afford to send me to school. I have no idea how you arrived at that one. Seems like a typical jealous reaction that people like you seem to have to those of us who come from wealthy families.
 
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7331poas

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Kind of irrelevant but yeah they did pay, and I have no debt and am quite proud of that. I never said residents should not be paid. I only said that it’s foolish to go complaining about it because it is a luxury to get paid in a training position as an unlicensed physician whether you see it or nor. To clarify, we need the training programs they do not need us. Anyone who actually believes that healthcare can’t function properly without residents is either lying to themselves or has some kind of inferiority complex. Hence the fact that there are people here who advocate biting the hand that feeds us over a couple grand is absolutely astonishing to me.

Of course they need residents. If residency wasn't paid, then no rational adult would attend medical school and we would produce no physicians regardless.
 
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Kuratz

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Lol ok because there was no pressure on me having my family pay for 8 years of training. I’ve clearly never once thought about money in my life either just because my parents could afford to send me to school. I have no idea how you arrived at that one. Seems like a typical jealous reaction that people like you seem to have to those of us who come from wealthy families.

Just stop.
 
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Kumorebi

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You’ve never had to worry about money like some of us have.
Lol ok because there was no pressure on me having my family pay for 8 years of training. I’ve clearly never once thought about money in my life either just because my parents could afford to send me to school. I have no idea how you arrived at that one.
I would argue that you not understanding this statement further justifies the entitlement claim. For one, you've never had to take out loans and wonder how to pay them back. That by itself validates this statement. In my opinion, you are the one extrapolating and getting overly defensive.
 
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ciestar

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Lol ok because there was no pressure on me having my family pay for 8 years of training. I’ve clearly never once thought about money in my life either just because my parents could afford to send me to school. I have no idea how you arrived at that one. Seems like a typical jealous reaction that people like you seem to have to those of us who come from wealthy families.
Did I once say there was no pressure on you?

My point was that you don’t understand how much a few thousand dollars can make to someone.

No, im not jealous of you.
 
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njtrimed

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Everyone, I would really appreciate it if we could get this thread back on track. It’s not worth arguing with an entitled child who likely will never appreciate how many colleagues have struggled without such privilege.

I think it would be useful for current MS4s (and really for anyone in med school) to see how residents are treated after risking their lives in a pandemic.
 
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Dr G Oogle

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I’ve been a resident and faculty training residents and as well as covering hospitals without residents and lemme tell you they absolutely cannot function without residents. While L&Ds would absolutely be destroyed without residents with the high volume at academic centers, if you don’t believe me just show up there on the half-day when residents are in didactics and attendings have to cover the floor for a few hours. a lot fewer surgeries would get done because frankly many of them can’t get done without a second or third pair of hands and yea cases take longer when you’re teaching but you can’t have SAs and PAs and 2 attendings in every case. Don’t believe me check the OR schedule In a community hospital and an academic one (pick any location you want). Busy surgical services cannot function with one or 2 PAs that’s why you don’t see many complex oncologic cases, complex trauma and transplant cases being done outside of places with residencies. In many places senior level residents get a modicum of oversight and while there are some weak ones, many of them are very high value and basically function as an attending or fellow. If you don’t believe me about the value of residents just read about any number of resident strikes and see how well hospitals cope.

you’re view is quite skewed and will not serve you well in life. If for no other reason then it sounds like you’ve a relatively challenge free life and lack of challenge does not often breed compassion and empathy.

Hospitals target resident salaries Because they are vulnerable population that as individuals will be to scared to challenge the system but as a group will be very powerful. The problem is trying to organize as a group without individual being targeted as trouble makers to be made examples of.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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Of course they need residents. If residency wasn't paid, then no rational adult would attend medical school and we would produce no physicians regardless.
Not sure that's true. Lots of dental residencies actually have tuition, still very competitive.
 
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Small Cell Carcinoma

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Did I once say there was no pressure on you?

My point was that you don’t understand how much a few thousand dollars can make to someone.

No, im not jealous of you.

No I understand it just fine. I can’t believe that you are equating being wealthy to having no idea how much a few thousand dollars is worth.
 
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