Residency seats

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Saga1

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  1. Medical Student
Does anyone here think there will be an increase in residency seats in the next 2-3 years? I know there are some bills in circulation but I feel they might not pass. As someone who is considering going to the caribbean I am slightly worried, especially with the massive increase in US med school seats. :scared:
 
I dont think there will be any increase in residency seats.

1. residency seats are federally funded
2. having the bottleneck at residency is part of their twisted plan
 
I dont think there will be any increase in residency seats.

1. residency seats are federally funded
2. having the bottleneck at residency is part of their twisted plan

Does anyone here think there will be an increase in residency seats in the next 2-3 years? I know there are some bills in circulation but I feel they might not pass. As someone who is considering going to the caribbean I am slightly worried, especially with the massive increase in US med school seats. :scared:

So I think when one reads SDN they should consume peoples opinions with a LARGE grain of salt...who cares what other people (especially anonymous) think, really & why would you let that change your mind?

Here are some websites that discuss your concern:
1. http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/2009/07/01/met_529452.shtml
2. http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2009/07/13/prse0717.htm
3. http://www.acponline.org/advocacy/physician_shortageact.pdf

There is talk about it, get ready for a LARGE grain of salt, I think it will happen...
 
I don't think it will happen either.. residencies are funded by Medicare and there's always talk about how medicare is going bankrupt and running out of money so with this poor economy there's even less money so massive expansion is even less likely. Also in the eyes of the US there is no need to expand residency spots because there are plenty of residencies for US grads as is in fact there's about 8,000 more than needed so why would they expand when there's no need, maybe once there are more US grads and not enough residencies for the then there will be an expansion. Remember, residencies are made for US graduates, we're just very lucky that there are left over spots that are given out to foriegn grads. look at canada and the rest of the world even, the number of residencies they have available very closely matches the number of medical grads they have per year, because this is who these residencies are for.

Also if US schools are expanding their class sizes why are you still going to the carib? with class size expansion it should be easier to get into a US school and that's where you should go.

there was another thread i saw that also said that the bill to expand residencies was put on hold and it had specific links to government websites that showed that, i'll try to find thread and post it here. but in short you shouldn't go to the carib with the expectation that there will be an increase in residencies and that all of a sudden it will be easy to become a doctor in the US.
 
Will those 6000 or so additional medical graduates be willing to become PCPs ? (I highly doubt that).
 
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Will those 6000 or so additional medical graduates be willing to become PCPs ? (I highly doubt that).

if you look at the match results for US med schools most still go into PCP specialties like IM, FM, Peds. So yes over 50% or more will go into primary care. The only reason IMGs go into primary care is because those are the only specialties that they're most likely accepted to, if they had the chance to become a specialist they would, the difference is US grads choose to go into primary care knowing that they could have just as easily matched into a specialty. IMGs aren't saints that want to help the world they just can't get a better residency.
 
I'm thinking about Carib because I am a Canadian and don't have the luxury of med school expansions or the DO option.
 
Will those 6000 or so additional medical graduates be willing to become PCPs ? (I highly doubt that).

6000 additional US grads, you mean?

I think so.

1. Most US grads are not going to pass up the hundreds of vacant Family Practice spots in favor of leaving clinical medicine. It will be a "take it or leave it" situation for them... Id think most would take it. What choice do they really have?

2. The culture is already changing. I was talking to a couple of profs who said that the schools are starting to chip away at the mentality that the Specialist is all that and a bag of chips. Some people are starting to think that the real "doctors" are the PCPs, and that everyone else is a consult. Add to that, the changes in fee structure where a consult will be billed as a basic office/hospital visit, not more.... I think it will very very slowly change.

What has to change is the malpractice lawyers have to not sue all the PCPs for not knowing as much as a specialist about each organ system.
 
I'm thinking about Carib because I am a Canadian and don't have the luxury of med school expansions or the DO option.


keep thinking. its becoming difficult for Canadians to return to practice there. If you dont get one of the few canadian spots, you'll have to get one of the dwindling US spots, and do 4 PGY years.... the FP leftovers wont be enough for you.
 
Yes AMGs is what i meant. And it's great to see a shift in paradigm.
The system will eventually get choked as a larger chunk of those 6000 grads sit for the match in 2019. Probably distribution of the spots should be more of a concern for Medicare. That said, IMHO, enrollment increase without a concominant or atleast somewhat marginal increase in PG spots seems illogical. Why turn away people who are willing to work and serve to solve the shortage problem !
 
if you look at the match results for US med schools most still go into PCP specialties like IM, FM, Peds. So yes over 50% or more will go into primary care. The only reason IMGs go into primary care is because those are the only specialties that they're most likely accepted to, if they had the chance to become a specialist they would, the difference is US grads choose to go into primary care knowing that they could have just as easily matched into a specialty. IMGs aren't saints that want to help the world they just can't get a better residency.

So you're saying AMGs are the real saints ?
 
So you're saying AMGs are the real saints ?

no i am saying AMGs aren't the devils you make them to be by saying that most of them will not become PCPs because the money isn't good, when in fact most do become PCPs and more so by choice than imgs who have no other option. So just because 90% of IMGs end up in primary care doesn't mean that they wanted to go into primary care, while the 60 or 70% of US grads that want to go into primary care do it because that's what they want not because they had to choose between primary care or some other less respected job.
 
no i am saying AMGs aren't the devils you make them to be by saying that most of them will not become PCPs because the money isn't good, when in fact most do become PCPs and more so by choice than imgs who have no other option. So just because 90% of IMGs end up in primary care doesn't mean that they wanted to go into primary care, while the 60 or 70% of US grads that want to go into primary care do it because that's what they want not because they had to choose between primary care or some other less respected job.

Interesting. I hope that both are equally dedicated towards their field. Since ultimately both are working for the same cause.
 
Yes AMGs is what i meant. And it's great to see a shift in paradigm.
The system will eventually get choked as a larger chunk of those 6000 grads sit for the match in 2019. Probably distribution of the spots should be more of a concern for Medicare. That said, IMHO, enrollment increase without a concominant or atleast somewhat marginal increase in PG spots seems illogical. Why turn away people who are willing to work and serve to solve the shortage problem !

why 2019? there are new medical schools that are planning to open their doors in 2011 and many that have already opened. Also increased enrollment by existing US medical schools already started as well. These plans were put into action a few years ago, and increases in US grads is seen every year. The number of residencies is increases as well just not at a fast rate as the increase in grads which is fine for now cause all of them are matching. And the whole shortage of doctors is more of a scare than a reality. Shortages of doctors have been talked about for more than 20 years already. The problem is in distribution of doctors, I can call any specialist today and have an appointment for either later this afternoon or tomorrow morning set without a problem, and I have done that, that's because there's such a high saturation of doctors in my area that many of them have free office hours and are waiting for a patient to call. While people in states like Oklahoma or one of the Dekotas have to travel an hour or more to see a specialist and they guy is booked a few weeks in advance same with PCPs. So the problem is that many doctors don't want to practice in these undeserved communities and that included IMGs because #1) people don't want to live in the middle of nowhere, where the population of cows out numbers the population of people more than 10 to 1, and where the no source of entertainment. and #2) doctors realized that they can see less patients who have private insurance and make the same amount if not more money than seeing those with medicaid or medicare. So they clump around cities and have empty offices but are okay with that because they're working less, living near culture and entertainment and are making the same. Even IMGs once they get their medical license do the same.

If you look at other countries requirements for medical licensure US probably has the easiest method to become a licensed doctor as a foreigner.
 
Interesting. I hope that both are equally dedicated towards their field. Since ultimately both are working for the same cause.

interesting you should say this. my experience during my psychiatry rotation has proven otherwise. the place i did my rotation was filled with FMGs (very close 100%) a few of them were, Orthopedic surgeons, Trauma surgeons, and internists back home. Many of them were very bitter that they couldn't match into their specialty, and had to do psychiatry, i know this because they would verbalize this everyday. many of them would also take these frustrations out on the patients, by either overestimating their drinking or documenting other behavior that wasn't present to committee a patient. On admission history and physical forms were copied from old records or were simply faked, for example for a lung exam they would ask the patient do you have any trouble breathing, the patient would say no so they would document that lungs were clear bilaterally and breath sounds were equal. they would also provoke patients to get angry by repeating questions that a patient didn't want to answer or didn't know the answer to and then would just sedate him/her when they became agitated. these residents didn't care and simply went through the motions. When they asked me to do an admission history and physical i proceeded to do a real exam when they told me no no just copy it from the previous admission i refused or I would refuse to sign those papers.. from that day on I tell everyone that if you need to see a psychiatrist make sure that they are a US grad and picked psychiatry because that's what they wanted to go into not because they had no other choice.
 
if you look at the match results for US med schools most still go into PCP specialties like IM, FM, Peds. So yes over 50% or more will go into primary care. The only reason IMGs go into primary care is because those are the only specialties that they're most likely accepted to, if they had the chance to become a specialist they would, the difference is US grads choose to go into primary care knowing that they could have just as easily matched into a specialty. IMGs aren't saints that want to help the world they just can't get a better residency.

False RJ, speak for yourself, not others...I understand we're getting close to Halloween, but we don't need to state grim reaper statistics when they are not founded...I mean who are you to speak on behalf of all IMG's... 😉
 
why 2019? there are new medical schools that are planning to open their doors in 2011 and many that have already opened. Also increased enrollment by existing US medical schools already started as well. These plans were put into action a few years ago, and increases in US grads is seen every year. The number of residencies is increases as well just not at a fast rate as the increase in grads which is fine for now cause all of them are matching. And the whole shortage of doctors is more of a scare than a reality. Shortages of doctors have been talked about for more than 20 years already. The problem is in distribution of doctors, I can call any specialist today and have an appointment for either later this afternoon or tomorrow morning set without a problem, and I have done that, that's because there's such a high saturation of doctors in my area that many of them have free office hours and are waiting for a patient to call. While people in states like Oklahoma or one of the Dekotas have to travel an hour or more to see a specialist and they guy is booked a few weeks in advance same with PCPs. So the problem is that many doctors don't want to practice in these undeserved communities and that included IMGs because #1) people don't want to live in the middle of nowhere, where the population of cows out numbers the population of people more than 10 to 1, and where the no source of entertainment. and #2) doctors realized that they can see less patients who have private insurance and make the same amount if not more money than seeing those with medicaid or medicare. So they clump around cities and have empty offices but are okay with that because they're working less, living near culture and entertainment and are making the same. Even IMGs once they get their medical license do the same.

If you look at other countries requirements for medical licensure US probably has the easiest method to become a licensed doctor as a foreigner.

I read somewhere that the full 30% increase hasn't happend yet and will be complete by 2015. So a major chunk of the 6000 AMGs will sit the match in years 2017-19 (with an upward trend in terms of numbers). I could be wrong though. But yes, it's a scare alright. US grads=Residency spots is still some years away i hope.
 
False RJ, speak for yourself, not others...I understand we're getting close to Halloween, but we don't need to state grim reaper statistics when they are not founded...I mean who are you to speak on behalf of all IMG's... 😉

just making the same generalization as people are saying that all AMGs go into specialties and not primary care.

And to be honest few imgs really have the privilege of being picky and those imgs are those that don't need US visas and have above average grades, board scores and LORs, some might even say that those imgs would have been accepted into US med schools if there was an increase in admission or new schools being opened like there are now. Plenty of people on ValueMD are preying they match somewhere and are only applying to psych and family practice because those are the easiest specialties to match into.
 
interesting you should say this. my experience during my psychiatry rotation has proven otherwise. the place i did my rotation was filled with FMGs (very close 100%) a few of them were, Orthopedic surgeons, Trauma surgeons, and internists back home. Many of them were very bitter that they couldn't match into their specialty, and had to do psychiatry, i know this because they would verbalize this everyday. many of them would also take these frustrations out on the patients, by either overestimating their drinking or documenting other behavior that wasn't present to committee a patient. On admission history and physical forms were copied from old records or were simply faked, for example for a lung exam they would ask the patient do you have any trouble breathing, the patient would say no so they would document that lungs were clear bilaterally and breath sounds were equal. they would also provoke patients to get angry by repeating questions that a patient didn't want to answer or didn't know the answer to and then would just sedate him/her when they became agitated. these residents didn't care and simply went through the motions. When they asked me to do an admission history and physical i proceeded to do a real exam when they told me no no just copy it from the previous admission i refused or I would refuse to sign those papers.. from that day on I tell everyone that if you need to see a psychiatrist make sure that they are a US grad and picked psychiatry because that's what they wanted to go into not because they had no other choice.


Gosh, did we do Psych at the same place?
 
just making the same generalization as people are saying that all AMGs go into specialties and not primary care.

And to be honest few imgs really have the privilege of being picky and those imgs are those that don't need US visas and have above average grades, board scores and LORs, some might even say that those imgs would have been accepted into US med schools if there was an increase in admission or new schools being opened like there are now. Plenty of people on ValueMD are preying they match somewhere and are only applying to psych and family practice because those are the easiest specialties to match into.

Ya, I agree with what you've said above here..
I just wanted to point out that as an IMG I wouldn't trade up IM/FM for another field if I could...I mean I'd rather mop floors than be a Radiologist or Anesthesiologist....just a matter of preference. But if I did want to get into those fields, I wouldn't let anything stop me either! 🙂
 
I read somewhere that the full 30% increase hasn't happend yet and will be complete by 2015. So a major chunk of the 6000 AMGs will sit the match in years 2017-19 (with an upward trend in terms of numbers). I could be wrong though. But yes, it's a scare alright. US grads=Residency spots is still some years away i hope.

ok, i don't know when the dead line for the increase was but i know they already started and a few new schools were planing on opening up in 2011 but they might have pushed that date back because of the poor economy, i don't know.

look at other countries for example Canada MD grads pretty much equals # of Canadian residencies. and I am sure the same thing goes with many European countries. I'd be willing to bet that the US has the highest % of foreign trained doctors in the world, and it's not because there is a higher need for doctors or that the US isn't producing enough doctors, it's because the US is being kind enough to let all these other doctors practice in their country.

if national health care becomes a reality and everything becomes government controlled like it is in the rest of the world then I am sure US grads will equal number of US residencies, that's how it is everywhere else.
 
Ya, I agree with what you've said above here..
I just wanted to point out that as an IMG I wouldn't trade up IM/FM for another field if I could...I mean I'd rather mop floors than be a Radiologist or Anesthesiologist....just a matter of preference. But if I did want to get into those fields, I wouldn't let anything stop me either! 🙂

what can i say you're one of the few lucky ones. but many especially those that did their training a number of years ago and practiced as something else in their home countries but then decided to move to the US are fighting for whatever position they can get.
 
ok, i don't know when the dead line for the increase was but i know they already started and a few new schools were planing on opening up in 2011 but they might have pushed that date back because of the poor economy, i don't know.

look at other countries for example Canada MD grads pretty much equals # of Canadian residencies. and I am sure the same thing goes with many European countries. I'd be willing to bet that the US has the highest % of foreign trained doctors in the world, and it's not because there is a higher need for doctors or that the US isn't producing enough doctors, it's because the US is being kind enough to let all these other doctors practice in their country.

if national health care becomes a reality and everything becomes government controlled like it is in the rest of the world then I am sure US grads will equal number of US residencies, that's how it is everywhere else.

Socialized medicine is no good. I work under it and we're overworked and underpaid. I think it's great to have partial govt control since that way atleast everyone gets healthcare (although not quality health care), but private agencies should be allowed to co-exist so quality control measures can be effectively undertaken.
 
So basically all the media hoopla about increasing residency seats will fall on deaf ears?
 
you can fallow the bills yourself. i post the links above. but i say yes. there are bigger problems in this country than lack of residency spots (which there currently isn't).
 
How do you find the no. of new residency seats?
 
Thanks howelljolly
 
I think there will be a slow increase in residency spots but definitely not at the rate that medical schools plan to expand ESPECIALLY since they will all be expanding at the same time so there for a few years they re maybe a significant shortage or atleast a squeeze for residencies, but eventually over 10 or so years I m sure more will open up; heck 2 large hospitals about close to my home which never had residencies before are planning to open up many new residencies...

As for a shift in residency trends...a few of my professors and MPH friends speak up the US moving towards a UK type of program where PCP are paid much more than specialists (hence in teh UK FP is one of the most sought residencies, same with canada).. PCPs are paid by capitation by PCTs (primary care trusts); often just collecting the monthly capitation and reffering patients off to specialists.
 
But either way I can imagine someone being shut out of residency (even competitive ones) forever.. If you dont match the first year then you scramble or do a prelim; OR you could do a research year or two.

I had a friend who had avg board scores and grades (US MD grad at a lower tier school) apply to plastics first year = no interviews; did plastics research for 2 years and reapplied (no prelim year or anything) == multiple interviews and a match in plastics.

Point being.. you ve come so far; there isnt anything that an extra year or two cant fix (as long as those years are spent wisely).
 
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