Residency

[pharmacyNF2021]

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Hello,

I am looking for ways to deal with my anxiety and not stressing constantly for the upcoming residency process for this year. Due to the pandemic, things will be different this year so I am not sure what to expect in terms of the ASHP midyear besides being virtually held. I am studying for the boards currently and started to write my LOI. It is so much to take in right now and I am feeling nauseous when I think about the process. I wanted to do residency for so long and now I am very close to it, I am feeling so much anxiety and ruminating on what would happen if I didn't make it. I have done well in school and working hard on my rotations but I cannot help but feel helpless. If anyone can share your tips, that would be great. I am also willing to do mock interviews if anyone is interested on your free time. Thank you.

 

[Marzapan]

Hello,

I am looking for ways to deal with my anxiety and not stressing constantly for the upcoming residency process for this year. Due to the pandemic, things will be different this year so I am not sure what to expect in terms of the ASHP midyear besides being virtually held. I am studying for the boards currently and started to write my LOI. It is so much to take in right now and I am feeling nauseous when I think about the process. I wanted to do residency for so long and now I am very close to it, I am feeling so much anxiety and ruminating on what would happen if I didn't make it. I have done well in school and working hard on my rotations but I cannot help but feel helpless. If anyone can share your tips, that would be great. I am also willing to do mock interviews if anyone is interested on your free time. Thank you.

If I were you I'd apply for fellowships even if I had no interest in them. It's another potential opportunity for you to secure something post-graduation ("securing" a grad intern position before you graduate means nothing because they can yank those at any time, unlike residency/fellowship where the host institution is bound by contractual agreements to ASHP).

You'd most likely not get anything but it doesn't hurt to try, and you'll have all that practice interviewing done right before residency interview season which will help you already have a feel for what to expect during residency interviews.

Better to put your eggs in two baskets than one basket (the match), because if you end up not matching (and statistically speaking, you won't), you will most definitely be permanently unemployed based on what the job market currently is like.

 

[JustFillIt]

Adderall XR and propranolol BID


Haha jk!

 

[pharmacyNF2021]

If I were you I'd apply for fellowships even if I had no interest in them. It's another potential opportunity for you to secure something post-graduation ("securing" a grad intern position before you graduate means nothing because they can yank those at any time, unlike residency/fellowship where the host institution is bound by contractual agreements to ASHP).

You'd most likely not get anything but it doesn't hurt to try, and you'll have all that practice interviewing done right before residency interview season which will help you already have a feel for what to expect during residency interviews.

Better to put your eggs in two baskets than one basket (the match), because if you end up not matching (and statistically speaking, you won't), you will most definitely be permanently unemployed based on what the job market currently is like.

You basically just said I will be unemployed no matter what I choose and you can't do both fellowship and residency as they are both during the same time.

 

[zelman]

You basically just said I will be unemployed no matter what I choose and you can't do both fellowship and residency as they are both during the same time.

Do you think you can only apply for one job?

 

[Saiyo]

You basically just said I will be unemployed no matter what I choose and you can't do both fellowship and residency as they are both during the same time.

Eh I think they are just saying apply but dont get your hopes up. Apply to more things so you dont end up like some of the unemployed posters.

 

[Marzapan]

You basically just said I will be unemployed no matter what I choose and you can't do both fellowship and residency as they are both during the same time.

No, you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I am saying that it is better to go through a process where you have a 5% chance of getting something(fellowship), and if that doesn't work out, a 10% chance of getting something(residency), and if that doesn't work out then a <1% chance of getting something (new grad applying for jobs).

This is a infinitely better strategy than going with a 10% then <1% approach or a simple <1% approach if the end goal is to be employed for at least one year post-graduation.

From a timing standpoint you won't have to "choose between both" because fellowships recruit in December-Jan and residencies start interviewing in late Jan at the earliest so if you picked up a fellowship then you'd decline your residency interviews since you've already accepted a fellowship offer. It's as simple as that.

 

[pharmacyNF2021]

No, you are misinterpreting what I am saying. I am saying that it is better to go through a process where you have a 5% chance of getting something(fellowship), and if that doesn't work out, a 10% chance of getting something(residency), and if that doesn't work out then a <1% chance of getting something (new grad applying for jobs).

This is a infinitely better strategy than going with a 10% then <1% approach or a simple <1% approach if the end goal is to be employed for at least one year post-graduation.

From a timing standpoint you won't have to "choose between both" because fellowships recruit in December-Jan and residencies start interviewing in late Jan at the earliest so if you picked up a fellowship then you'd decline your residency interviews since you've already accepted a fellowship offer. It's as simple as that.

I see, thank you for clarifying as what you are saying makes sense. Thank you for not sugar coating things.

 

[Hels2007]

a 10% chance of getting something(residency),

It's more like 60-70% chance. 65% of all residency applicants matched in 2020, I actually expected the percent to go down as more and more students would apply given how hard it has become to find jobs - but it has not outpaced the growth in the number of residency positions offered. So statistically speaking, you are more likely to get a residency than not (especially if you haven't just sat on your butt for the four years of pharmacy school doing the bare minimum but actually bothered to make yourself competitive). Even if every single P4 applied, there is still 20-25% chance of getting a residency, which is pretty amazing, the odds for most things are much lower. If you are smart about preparing for residency and about selecting programs, you should get your match. You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the slowest runner, or in this case, the dumber and lazier 3/4 of your classmates...

https://natmatch.com/ashprmp/stats/2020applstats.pdf

 

[Seriously Serious]

Eh, I personally do not recommend applying to both. Fellowships can actually interview during the same time as residency interviews. You will be doing twice the work because you are applying to two different career paths in fields that look for different things in candidates... but if you are willing to put in the extra time/energy, then go for it. You are better whole-assing one path or the other.

Do not stress yourself out too much by studying for the board exams so far out in the future... you can honestly study for them fine between your last rotation and when you start residency... and if you do a fellowship, you do not even need to be licensed.

 

[Marzapan]

It's more like 60-70% chance. 65% of all residency applicants matched in 2020, I actually expected the percent to go down as more and more students would apply given how hard it has become to find jobs - but it has not outpaced the growth in the number of residency positions offered. So statistically speaking, you are more likely to get a residency than not (especially if you haven't just sat on your butt for the four years of pharmacy school doing the bare minimum but actually bothered to make yourself competitive). Even if every single P4 applied, there is still 20-25% chance of getting a residency, which is pretty amazing, the odds for most things are much lower. If you are smart about preparing for residency and about selecting programs, you should get your match. You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the slowest runner, or in this case, the dumber and lazier 3/4 of your classmates...

https://natmatch.com/ashprmp/stats/2020applstats.pdf

I was just making a point, but the 65% isn't true either. ASHP match stats are calculated on the basis of # applicants who matched / # of applicants who didn't withdraw so that 65% is just out of the pool of candidates who got 1 or more interviews. There are plenty of people who applied for residency and got 0 interviews, so they are either not in the system as a statistic or withdrew because they have nothing to rank. So the actual match % is much, much lower than how ASHP presents the data.

 

[Hels2007]

Fair point about withdrawals, but it's not THAT much lower. If we take those who enrolled in match, without excluding those who had withdrawn or didn't submit ranking, it's 52% would be a better number (the number of those who enrolled in match). Still better than 50/50. But even if every single pharmacy school graduate applied next year, there would still be than 20% chance if the number of residencies stayed the same. Not bad odds at all... Most things in the real world have worse.

Also, I think knowing how you stack up vs. your classmates in terms of all the parameters (academic, leadership, research, work experience) would help you figure out your chances vs. the universe of P4s.

 

[Marzapan]

Fair point about withdrawals, but it's not THAT much lower. If we take those who enrolled in match, without excluding those who had withdrawn or didn't submit ranking, it's 52% would be a better number (the number of those who enrolled in match). Still better than 50/50. But even if every single pharmacy school graduate applied next year, there would still be than 20% chance if the number of residencies stayed the same. Not bad odds at all... Most things in the real world have worse.

Also, I think knowing how you stack up vs. your classmates in terms of all the parameters (academic, leadership, research, work experience) would help you figure out your chances vs. the universe of P4s.

Geographic variation is big here as well. If you live in a big metro area and blindly apply then your chances of matching is much less than 20% due to the competitiveness of residencies in desirable areas and tendency of those residencies to attract the most competitive candidates. In contrast, far fewer applicants will apply to BFE residencies so your chances of matching to those programs are >20%. I figure the vast majority of folks who visit these boards are from the coasts so the relevant % that this demographic should be looking at is <20%.

 

[Hels2007]

Geographic variation is big here as well. If you live in a big metro area and blindly apply then your chances of matching is much less than 20% due to the competitiveness of residencies in desirable areas and tendency of those residencies to attract the most competitive candidates. In contrast, far fewer applicants will apply to BFE residencies so your chances of matching to those programs are >20%. I figure the vast majority of folks who visit these boards are from the coasts so the relevant % that this demographic should be looking at is <20%.

Absolutely. But too many students think themselves to be more competitive than they truly are and/or are either too lazy or not smart enough to apply strategically.

Geography would be the farthest thing from my mind when choosing a position, though... it's only a year. I have personal experience with places from a middle of nowhere (as in, the nearest grocery store and gas station are 50+ miles away) to a megapolis and from frozen north with 7 months of snow on the ground to subtropics. Everywhere has it's pluses and minuses, your experiences depend far more on who you are as a person than where you are geographically. Sure, when I was 16, I totally believed that if I move to a totally different place, my life would be completely different... but then I grew up. Being happy or being miserable is nothing more than a personal choice.

 

[Ladyg228]

It's more like 60-70% chance. 65% of all residency applicants matched in 2020, I actually expected the percent to go down as more and more students would apply given how hard it has become to find jobs - but it has not outpaced the growth in the number of residency positions offered. So statistically speaking, you are more likely to get a residency than not (especially if you haven't just sat on your butt for the four years of pharmacy school doing the bare minimum but actually bothered to make yourself competitive). Even if every single P4 applied, there is still 20-25% chance of getting a residency, which is pretty amazing, the odds for most things are much lower. If you are smart about preparing for residency and about selecting programs, you should get your match. You don't need to outrun the bear, you just need to outrun the slowest runner, or in this case, the dumber and lazier 3/4 of your classmates...

https://natmatch.com/ashprmp/stats/2020applstats.pdf

If you look at the 2020 phase 2 stats, it spells out a very different story. The number of applicants for the left over ~180 residency spots were greater than the number of applicants that matched in round 1 (~3800+). Literally less than 5% chance of success.