Response to letters to programs about ranking?

[pnle119]

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I've picked my top four programs and wrote emails to the PD's of each of those programs telling them, in essence, that I will rank them highly. I have gotten zero responses, however. So I was just curious if anybody actually hears back from programs that they've written to.

Is it a bad sign that these programs didn't respond to me? It would be great if any current residents (or even attendings) can provide some insight into this, or maybe share their own experiences.

Thanks in advance.

 

[goooooober]

I've picked my top four programs and wrote emails to the PD's of each of those programs telling them, in essence, that I will rank them highly. I have gotten zero responses, however. So I was just curious if anybody actually hears back from programs that they've written to.

Is it a bad sign that these programs didn't respond to me? It would be great if any current residents (or even attendings) can provide some insight into this, or maybe share their own experiences.

Thanks in advance.

These emails and letters are the equivalent of the candy and flowers that guys buy women. How many of them lead to marriage? Not many.

PDs get a hundred of these emails every year. Frankly, I highly doubt they take a single one of them seriously. So don't hold your breath on the response thing.

If you really want to go to a particular program and want to let them know they are your top choice, I would recommend making an appointment to meet with the PD face to face to let them know you will rank them first. That will come across a lot more genuine than an email or letter.

Having said this, I don't think there is anything wrong with writing a brief note or letter to thank every program that you interview and letting them know you enjoyed your visit.

Good luck.

 

[thedrjojo]

I don't necessarily agree with you. I have sent two such emails, albeit to two whom I am known to more than just an applicant (rotated with both of them) and received very positive emails back ("I would be honored to be a participant in your development into a well-trained and competent surgeon" stated one). But it varies, and if I wasn't known to them (one of the emails was sent as a response to an email he had previously sent me) I would find it less likely they would respond... Program Coordinators might be better to reach out to... and if possible, you could go have a meeting, but that isn't possible at all places.

 

[surgdia]

Way back when I applied, I sent e-mails to the PD's at my top 2 choices. Got a very positive response from one, nothing from the other. I matched at the program at which I heard nothing.

At the ranking meetings they generally put up a picture of each candidate and have a file full of *every* correspondence sent from the candidate to the program. Thank you notes are a must - they are good etiquette (and you are the odd man out if you don't send them). If you are overall a strong candidate a "love letter" to you top program can only help you, albeit minimally. It will definitely not hurt you.

 

[blue2000]

I've picked my top four programs and wrote emails to the PD's of each of those programs telling them, in essence, that I will rank them highly. I have gotten zero responses, however. So I was just curious if anybody actually hears back from programs that they've written to.

Is it a bad sign that these programs didn't respond to me? It would be great if any current residents (or even attendings) can provide some insight into this, or maybe share their own experiences.

Thanks in advance.

In addition to what the others said, which I agree with, telling someone you are ranking them highly is a pretty transparent way of saying you're not my number one, but I want you to rank me highly, in case I don't get what I want. There's nothing wrong with it, but I think the only email that has value is the one that states to your top choice that they are your top choice. Anything less is meaningless. And as I'm sure you know, if you tell them it's your top choice, it better be your top choice.

 

[pnle119]

In addition to what the others said, which I agree with, telling someone you are ranking them highly is a pretty transparent way of saying you're not my number one, but I want you to rank me highly, in case I don't get what I want. There's nothing wrong with it, but I think the only email that has value is the one that states to your top choice that they are your top choice. Anything less is meaningless. And as I'm sure you know, if you tell them it's your top choice, it better be your top choice.

I didn't actually use the phrase "rank highly" in any of my letters. For my first choice, I explicitly told them they were at the top of my list. For my other spots, I would tell the programs that I ranked them in my "top four", for example.

Here's another question. I told Program A that I would rank them number one after I interviewed (and I really meant it), but after 2 emails and 1 voice message to the PD, I did not receive anything by way of a response. A month later, I interviewed at Program B and decided I liked it better than Program A, especially since Program A basically ignored all my communications. So following my interview, I told Program B that I would rank them number one (and I fully intend to).

My question is, first of all, did I violate any match rules? I know it's unethical to tell multiple programs you would rank them number one. But in my case, I actually meant what I said in the letters and it wasn't my intention to tell two different programs that I would rank them number one. If Program A had been responsive and actually given me some indication that they were still interested in me after the interview, I never would have even considered telling Program B.

Second question is, Having told Program B that they're my number one, do I need to tell Program A that I no longer intend to rank them number one? Even if I sent them an email to tell them this, I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't hear anything back, since these people either aren't interested in me as an applicant, or they aren't interested in answering their emails.

Any thoughts? Have I violated a Match rule? Should I have even shared this information in a public forum? Will SDN protect my privacy should this issue come under investigation? Why am I still typing?

 

[thedrjojo]

you haven't broken any rules as far as I know. Thats why many programs know it is bs anyway, and even when I wrote to one program "I have ever intention of ranking you number one and don't foresee anything changing that" he responded "glad to see you are considering us as your top choice"?!? If you intended on telling multiple programs that, it would be a little unethical to purposely mislead them, but again, not illegal unless you said "I will rank you number one only if by doing so you tell me exactly where you are ranking me" (the only illegal thing about disclosing where you are ranking someone is if it is forced or forces them to tell you). You could contact program A and refresh your sentiment with "will rank highly", or just leave it as it is... as our careers in medicine dean (yeah, we have a dean for it) told us: there is a fine line between ambitious and stalkerish, and being too needie (ie calling ever week) is a turn off (once you are a resident, are they now going to be expecting you to bug them every week about wanting this day off, or needing this, or this isn't working out...)

 

[Winged Scapula]

It is not a match violation to tell programs you are ranking them #1 even if you aren't.

But you have also made the common mistake of:

a) thinking the letters make a significant difference in your ranking
b) that no communication from a program means no love. Some PDs are so afraid of match violations or misleading students that they send no letters. It doesn't mean they're not interested it may just be their policy. Or maybe they're lazy.

Rank programs anyway you want, without regard to what communication they've given you.

 

[YHRC]

believe it or not, our PD will move an applicant up if they do correspond - lack of correspondence shows lack of interest (per the PD).

 

[Shangal]

Are you serious? you guys are freaking me out now. I am really bad at this kiss ass business. Should I start emailing my top 3 begging them from a spot!

 

[skiz knot]

Here's another question. I told Program A that I would rank them number one after I interviewed (and I really meant it), but after 2 emails and 1 voice message to the PD, I did not receive anything by way of a response. A month later, I interviewed at Program B and decided I liked it better than Program A, especially since Program A basically ignored all my communications. So following my interview, I told Program B that I would rank them number one (and I fully intend to).

If Program A had been responsive and actually given me some indication that they were still interested in me after the interview, I never would have even considered telling Program B.

THis isn't college sports recruiting. They let you know if they want you based on where they rank you. I don't know why this has to be repeated over and over but rank programs based on your preference. The match process is in your favor.

If you need to "feel the love" in order to be happy going someplace than that is fine, but as previously mentioned, many places will not send any correspondence to the applicants, and others send positive correspondence to all they rank.

Good luck.

 

[ChiDO]

You could theoretically email every program and tell them you are ranking them #1. The only way they would ever find out is:

1. PDs speak to each other and find out that you said #1 to both programs.
2. PD ranks you #1 as well and you don't match there; he now obviously knows you didn't rank them #1.

Is this ethically wrong, ya probably (depending on who you are as a person), but it is definitely not a match violation.

 

[PostLessOne]

Wonder if this is a good solution to use CYA weasel words. "I 'intend' to rank your program number 1 come match day", or "I've got your program on my draft list at the number 1 spot, and I'm all done with interviews"...

That way you could use this trick more than once.

What I wonder is why programs care so much if you "show interest". When you're a male seeking a hot chick, she bloody well knows you are interested, and showing too much interest will result in a rejection. If you're a 4th year seeking an ortho slot, it's not like the program thinks you're not interested...the program knows you'd donate a kidney to get a spot. So why do they care about whether you show interest, instead of focusing on who they feel will make for the easiest to work with resident who also looks good on paper?

 

[Dr.LeoSpaceman]

You could theoretically email every program and tell them you are ranking them #1. The only way they would ever find out is:

1. PDs speak to each other and find out that you said #1 to both programs.
2. PD ranks you #1 as well and you don't match there; he now obviously knows you didn't rank them #1.

Is this ethically wrong, ya probably (depending on who you are as a person), but it is definitely not a match violation.

It's not "probably" wrong ethically, it's definitely wrong. It's knowingly lying to people. Whether a person is a big enough dickbag to not care is a different matter. Suffice to say, if I was a PD and did find out, that student better not hope to come to my hospital for fellowship. And depending how pissed they are, I wouldn't be surprised if they told their friends elsewhere. Surgery is a pretty small world...it's not a good idea to start making enemies before you even start residency.

As for using wiggle words, that's not a way out. That stuff is for lawyers.

 

[...to_the_OR!]

PDs talk to each other a lot...