Retake 515 with 125 CARS?

[Hevin Kart]

Background:
Hello everyone. I am a senior taking a single gap year before medical school. Last year I studied for a took the MCAT, getting a decent score of 515. Under normal circumstances, I would be happy about that score, but my practice test was in the ballpark of 520-524. Having said that, my section scores were 130/125/130/130 - 515. The night prior to my exam I was denied from the hotel which I booked myself with an ID for being under 21. I called every hotel in the area, but none would take me. as a last resort, I thankfully knew another student who lived in the area, I called him, and he and his parents were willing to take me in for the night. I stayed in his cold basement and didn't get to sleep until after midnight, and I had to wake up extra early to go find myself breakfast and drive over 30 minutes to the testing area (I expected to get hotel breakfast but couldn't anymore...). Having said that, not to make excuses, I can honestly say I felt fine the day of, adrenaline or something else, but somehow my CARS section hit an all-time low.

Questions:
I studied a bit this semester but ultimately made the decision 10 days before my MCAT not to retake, did I make the wrong choice? I was reading up on sdn and Reddit seeing somewhat similar stats to mine (GPA 3.92, sGPA 3.93, ~100 hours clinical volunteering, ~100 shadow hours, ~300 non-clinical volunteering, slightly less than 1000 research hours, various honors and awards), and they have likewise a low CARS score, and the responses are overwhelmingly negative, but the forums are years old and I was wondering if that notion holds true that I'm screwed for MD admissions? I'm not shooting for anything crazy like Stanford, but I am also really hoping to get into an allopathic school, would a low CARS score get screened out? Would it be screened at top schools? Is there a way to find out or check? Overall, as an overarching question, I'm concerned about the CARS score, and I want to know if anyone knows or has resources to point me toward that can let me know how it hurts my chances.

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[AJS59]

Background:
Hello everyone. I am a senior taking a single gap year before medical school. Last year I studied for a took the MCAT, getting a decent score of 515. Under normal circumstances, I would be happy about that score, but my practice test was in the ballpark of 520-524. Having said that, my section scores were 130/125/130/130 - 515. The night prior to my exam I was denied from the hotel which I booked myself with an ID for being under 21. I called every hotel in the area, but none would take me. as a last resort, I thankfully knew another student who lived in the area, I called him, and he and his parents were willing to take me in for the night. I stayed in his cold basement and didn't get to sleep until after midnight, and I had to wake up extra early to go find myself breakfast and drive over 30 minutes to the testing area (I expected to get hotel breakfast but couldn't anymore...). Having said that, not to make excuses, I can honestly say I felt fine the day of, adrenaline or something else, but somehow my CARS section hit an all-time low.

Questions:
I studied a bit this semester but ultimately made the decision 10 days before my MCAT not to retake, did I make the wrong choice? I was reading up on sdn and Reddit seeing somewhat similar stats to mine (GPA 3.92, sGPA 3.93, ~100 hours clinical volunteering, ~100 shadow hours, ~300 non-clinical volunteering, slightly less than 1000 research hours, various honors and awards), and they have likewise a low CARS score, and the responses are overwhelmingly negative, but the forums are years old and I was wondering if that notion holds true that I'm screwed for MD admissions? I'm not shooting for anything crazy like Stanford, but I am also really hoping to get into an allopathic school, would a low CARS score get screened out? Would it be screened at top schools? Is there a way to find out or check? Overall, as an overarching question, I'm concerned about the CARS score, and I want to know if anyone knows or has resources to point me toward that can let me know how it hurts my chances.

Personally? I wouldn't retake; the risk of score hitting the same (or going down) is high at a 515.

You're 1000% not screwed for MD on those #s. You would probably be best posting a WAMC with more detailed information so we can help evaluate the rest of your application. Yes, you may not get into a T20 but a 515 will not hold you back from MD programs.

 

[eteshoe]

I wouldn't risk a retake. What's the upside compared to the downsides?

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I wouldn't risk a retake. What's the upside compared to the downsides?

But in my mind I’m treating this, maybe erroneously, as a specialized form of a Reddit-esc forum, which is typically short form and informal.

Sorry, I have no clue what that means. 🙂 I contend reddit is where SDN was at the early 2000s. We aren't going to become a publicly traded company, but with the expertise that inhabits our forums, it's worth it to consider present yourself in a more collegial way.

We live in an extremely transactional world now where we want an answer within seconds. For better or worse, admissions decisions cannot be made so deterministically. It would be great to plug in numbers and find out if you are an Alpha or a Gamma (Brave New World, I believe), but that's not how it works out should work. To better understand why those with 3.9/423 applicants get rejected over 3.7/418s, you need to understand how holistic review works, and we try to advise with probabilities in mind. No, you aren't coming across as rude, but you aren't taking advantage of the years of expertise here by only giving the minimum.

No, I wouldn't retake a 515, but I also think the circumstances could have played a role in your score. If your practices clearly put you on 525 territory, go for it. If you trust your preparation, it doesn't hurt unless you score lower, such is a definite possibility.

Add: that was rude that you shut down a discussion while I was posting... though you wouldn't know. 🙂

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I ask for help and I’ve felt condescended twice by you. I apologize for shutting it down while you were typing, I had no way to know. I no longer wish to continue the discussion so I decided to remove it.

I'm sorry that you felt condescended as that was not my intent. You should know how others think when you present your information, and the lack of details makes it easier to presume your attitude towards receiving other perspectives. I spent a lot of time with my response above to make sure we are on the same page emotionally on the discussion.

We are a version of Shark Tank here. A worse response than "being rude" while critical is one of complete indifference.

 

[RunnerDad]

Your MCAT score is solid, and the one semi-clunker of a section score is the one section that most test takers score lower in anyway. But is it correct that you only have 100 hours of clinical experience? That's very low for the most competitive applicants with your apparent stats. Would be best to post a WAMC with more complete information, to get the soundest advice.

 

[Hevin Kart]

Thanks for the reply and confidence in my score, it’s been my biggest applicant insecurity for a while now! In regards to your second comment, yes sadly that is how many I have, I wish I could say it’s significantly higher but it isn’t, I have roughly 100 hours of clinical volunteering and 80 hours of shadowing, as well as my job as a medical assistant and scribe at an ED starting early June full time. That’s definitely a weak point in my application as well. I wonder, though, as a transfer student who had no access to clinical a freshman year due to restrictions in the state I was in, plus studying abroad 3 times (2 of which during the summer on selective academic and research programs, 1 more typical one during the fall of my junior year), would these experiences in anyway be a suitable reason for not obtaining the higher hours that most students have. I mean to say that had I not pursuers these programs, I would have surely had 100s if not more volunteering both non clinical and clinical as well as research (which I already have >1000), but I wonder if this is a situation where medical schools would say “too bad, you made the wrong choice”? I know this is poorly worded question, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts, and like you mentioned, I may actually ask this as a stand alone question elsewhere too.

 

[AJS59]

Thanks for the reply and confidence in my score, it’s been my biggest applicant insecurity for a while now! In regards to your second comment, yes sadly that is how many I have, I wish I could say it’s significantly higher but it isn’t, I have roughly 100 hours of clinical volunteering and 80 hours of shadowing, as well as my job as a medical assistant and scribe at an ED starting early June full time. That’s definitely a weak point in my application as well. I wonder, though, as a transfer student who had no access to clinical a freshman year due to restrictions in the state I was in, plus studying abroad 3 times (2 of which during the summer on selective academic and research programs, 1 more typical one during the fall of my junior year), would these experiences in anyway be a suitable reason for not obtaining the higher hours that most students have. I mean to say that had I not pursuers these programs, I would have surely had 100s if not more volunteering both non clinical and clinical as well as research (which I already have >1000), but I wonder if this is a situation where medical schools would say “too bad, you made the wrong choice”? I know this is poorly worded question, but I’m interested to hear your thoughts, and like you mentioned, I may actually ask this as a stand alone question elsewhere too.

Med schools don't make exceptions for this, not any more at least (COVID maybe was a different time).

In theory, if you're able to hold off on submission till June 4, you may be able to accumulate 100ish more hours. Might be to your benefit to delay.

What about your non-clinical volunteering, if any?

 

[Hevin Kart]

Med schools don't make exceptions for this, not any more at least (COVID maybe was a different time).

In theory, if you're able to hold off on submission till June 4, you may be able to accumulate 100ish more hours. Might be to your benefit to delay.

What about your non-clinical volunteering, if any?

Sorry we talked a while ago and if you've forgotten the context no worries, but I just had another question related to what you mentioned. I did the math and by the deadline to start submissions I will have ~190 clinical hours (still very few, but I guess more than 100 haha!). Regardless, you mentioned waiting til June 4, is there a reason for that? Would I still be in the first batch, and would another 20 ish hours of paid clinical work aid me at all as it pushes me above the 200 hour threshold (about 210 total), or would hours this low simply just be too low anyway and not something to worry about. For my second question which I don't want you to feel obligated to answer because I know we all are busy, assuming I submit in the second batch and the verification completes before the start date of secondaries, does that have any weight in terms of acceptances and things like that (compared to first batch), or would it maybe be beneficial for me to work another whole week to raise my hours to 250+ in the hopes of quick verification? Thanks a ton!

 

[karaya]

I did the math and by the deadline to start submissions I will have ~190 clinical hours (still very few, but I guess more than 100 haha!). Regardless, you mentioned waiting til June 4, is there a reason for that? Would I still be in the first batch, and would another 20 ish hours of paid clinical work aid me at all as it pushes me above the 200 hour threshold (about 210 total), or would hours this low simply just be too low anyway and not something to worry about.

assuming I submit in the second batch and the verification completes before the start date of secondaries, does that have any weight in terms of acceptances and things like that (compared to first batch), or would it maybe be beneficial for me to work another whole week to raise my hours to 250+ in the hopes of quick verification?

Not trying to be rude, but this level of optimization is beside the point. I understand this is a neurotic time for you, but focus on the big picture. June 4 is not late; it's actually early. The question is not whether you'll have enough hours, but whether you can write meaningfully about your experience. I do wonder whether you'll acquire such meaningful experience quickly. The first month of a new job is a time of acclimation, not necessarily reflection.