Retake a 510? (123 CARS)

[schistoguy]

...accidentally posted in premedical-DO at first but meant to post in here.


Hey guys,

I wanted some input how re-taking a 510 with (129,123,130,128) breakdown would look? I would never consider re-taking if the 510 was more balanced but I think a 123 CARS will close a lot of doors for me that a more balanced score wouldn't.

My practice exams were nothing like this breakdown and I feel like even improving on CARS will do a lot for my app. I have a 3.9 with 100+ hours shadowing, 500+ hours non-clinical and clinical volunteering, 1 leadership position in social organization, and 5,000+ hours immuno therapy research. I feel like I have a pretty good application besides this score and wish to aim for mid-top tier schools next cycle.

What are y'alls thoughts? I am also curious how big of a jump would be significant if re-taking. I hope to jump to 515+ (11 percentile increase) but think I can reach 519+ (15 percentile increase).

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[Lawpy]

Well CARS gets the most leeway because ESL. I'd probably retake the 510 and aim for 515+ with at least 127 on CARS (although a 126 is okay). I think you may have a chance with some US MD schools (Oakland Beaumont, Albany, NYMC, etc.) with the current score and probably all DO schools.

 

[Doc_Ock]

...accidentally posted in premedical-DO at first but meant to post in here.


Hey guys,

I wanted some input how re-taking a 510 with (129,123,130,128) breakdown would look? I would never consider re-taking if the 510 was more balanced but I think a 123 CARS will close a lot of doors for me that a more balanced score wouldn't.

My practice exams were nothing like this breakdown and I feel like even improving on CARS will do a lot for my app. I have a 3.9 with 100+ hours shadowing, 500+ hours non-clinical and clinical volunteering, 1 leadership position in social organization, and 5,000+ hours immuno therapy research. I feel like I have a pretty good application besides this score and wish to aim for mid-top tier schools next cycle.

What are y'alls thoughts? I am also curious how big of a jump would be significant if re-taking. I hope to jump to 515+ (11 percentile increase) but think I can reach 519+ (15 percentile increase).

No. They care about that section the least anyway, like when they used to have the essay. I got in with a 510 and a pretty lousy gpa.
Edit: this is assuming 510 is your science gpa and you’re not aiming for Harvard. You still have plenty of options.
Edit of edit. Meant 3.9 sgpa.


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[altblue]

No. They care about that section the least anyway, like when they used to have the essay. I got in with a 510 and a pretty lousy gpa.
Edit: this is assuming 510 is your science gpa and you’re not aiming for Harvard. You still have plenty of options.


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I wish my science GPA was a 510.... s***

 

[Doc_Ock]

I wish my science GPA was a 510.... s***

Uhhh.... you mean 3.9?


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[bananadonut]

...accidentally posted in premedical-DO at first but meant to post in here.


Hey guys,

I wanted some input how re-taking a 510 with (129,123,130,128) breakdown would look? I would never consider re-taking if the 510 was more balanced but I think a 123 CARS will close a lot of doors for me that a more balanced score wouldn't.

My practice exams were nothing like this breakdown and I feel like even improving on CARS will do a lot for my app. I have a 3.9 with 100+ hours shadowing, 500+ hours non-clinical and clinical volunteering, 1 leadership position in social organization, and 5,000+ hours immuno therapy research. I feel like I have a pretty good application besides this score and wish to aim for mid-top tier schools next cycle.

What are y'alls thoughts? I am also curious how big of a jump would be significant if re-taking. I hope to jump to 515+ (11 percentile increase) but think I can reach 519+ (15 percentile increase).

Depends on what you're aiming for (also if you live in Canada probably should retake).

If you're set on top tier then definitely retake. If you do plan on retaking anyways, make sure you knock it out of the park!

 

[onyxbell]

Not an opinion but personal experience. I boosted a 512 into a 522, with CARS score of 131. Didn't do much for me this cycle though.

 

[altblue]

Uhhh.... you mean 3.9?


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Nah, a 510. Take another look.

 

[21Rush12]

I disagree with the above poster that CARS is the least important section. It tests critical thinking and analysis skills and along with the psych/social section it is the only way that noncognitive skills are assessed before the interview.

It may be given the most leeway, but a red flag low score is not a good thing.

As for retaking, I think you may be given a chance based on an excellent performance in the other sections. I'll leave advice about that to the adcoms.

Best of luck to you!


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[Lawpy]

Not an opinion but personal experience. I boosted a 512 into a 522, with CARS score of 131. Didn't do much for me this cycle though.

I suspect your international status is what's hurting you, but I have no idea. Hopefully you'll get a few interview invites soon.

I disagree with the above poster that CARS is the least important section. It tests critical thinking and analysis skills and along with the psych/social section it is the only way that noncognitive skills are assessed before the interview.

It may be given the most leeway, but a red flag low score is not a good thing.

As for retaking, I think you may be given a chance based on an excellent performance in the other sections. I'll leave advice about that to the adcoms.

Best of luck to you!


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There is no way to determine which section is the most important vs least important. Every adcom member has their own personal interests, which is why it's important to do well on all sections.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Nah, a 510. Take another look.

I said gpa.....


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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I suspect your international status is what's hurting you, but I have no idea. Hopefully you'll get a few interview invites soon.



There is no way to determine which section is the most important vs least important. Every adcom member has their own personal interests, which is why it's important to do well on all sections.

A look at Table 16 shows CARS having the lowest mean score at half a point lower than chem/phys and almost a full point lower than bio/biochem and psych/soc. So CARS definitely seems to get a little leeway.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf

 

[Lawpy]

A look at Table 16 shows CARS having the lowest mean score at half a point lower than chem/phys and almost a full point lower than bio/biochem and psych/soc. So CARS definitely seems to get a little leeway.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf

Yeah I agree but that doesn't necessarily mean CARS is the least important. Adcoms can view CARS to be the most important but still give applicants some slack if they are ESL. It's still impossible to tell what happens behind the scenes since that varies by school, application profile etc.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Yeah I agree but that doesn't necessarily mean CARS is the least important. Adcoms can view CARS to be the most important but still give applicants some slack if they are ESL. It's still impossible to tell what happens behind the scenes since that varies by school, application profile etc.

I’m willing to bet every dollar of my students loans that the overwhelming majority of adcoms put CARS at the bottom of the list.


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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yeah I agree but that doesn't necessarily mean CARS is the least important. Adcoms can view CARS to be the most important but still give applicants some slack if they are ESL. It's still impossible to tell what happens behind the scenes since that varies by school, application profile etc.

Perhaps. But the fact that it's the only section with a markedly lower score makes me think they are willing to take lower scores because it's not viewed as being as important. ESL is one thing, but that would probably lower your other scores too since a lot of them are heavily passage based.

 

[Lawpy]

I’m willing to bet every dollar of my students loans that the overwhelming majority of adcoms put CARS at the bottom of the list.


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Maybe. I have no idea and there is no way to check if it's true.

Perhaps. But the fact that it's the only section with a markedly lower score makes me think they are willing to take lower scores because it's not viewed as being as important. ESL is one thing, but that would probably lower your other scores too since a lot of them are heavily passage based.

I think for many people, it's easier to read science passages than verbal passages. Verbal passages are excerpted from humanities and social science essays that can be rather dry and convoluted. Science passages are excerpted from research papers, which are more familiar to those who do research. Since more applicants major in the sciences, they are more familiar with science passages than with verbal passages, hence the underlying discrepancy that adcoms take into account.

That still doesn't show anything as to how adcoms weight each section. A strong argument in favor of weighing CARS heavily is that it requires purely reading the passage and using only the information from the passage to the answer the questions. There is zero outside information required, so it's a reliable way to assess analytical and critical thinking skills under timed conditions. Yet, others argue that those who are already well-read and are humanities/social sciences majors uniquely benefit from CARS since they are used to reading dry essays and critiquing them actively. Since CARS isn't something that's "studyable" unlike the sciences (and psych/soc), it's a unique section in a way, even though the skills gathered from doing well on CARS also help to do well on the sciences.

In either case, there is this ambiguity on which section matters more that data don't readily show. The fact that accepted students/matriculants have lower CARS medians than the sciences doesn't mean adcoms weigh CARS least heavily. There are a lot of factors involved, which is why it's important to do well on all sections.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Maybe. I have no idea and there is no way to check if it's true.



I think for many people, it's easier to read science passages than verbal passages. Verbal passages are excerpted from humanities and social science essays that can be rather dry and convoluted. Science passages are excerpted from research papers, which are more familiar to those who do research. Since more applicants major in the sciences, they are more familiar with science passages than with verbal passages, hence the underlying discrepancy that adcoms take into account.

That still doesn't show anything as to how adcoms weight each section. A strong argument in favor of weighing CARS heavily is that it requires purely reading the passage and using only the information from the passage to the answer the questions. There is zero outside information required, so it's a reliable way to assess analytical and critical thinking skills under timed conditions. Yet, others argue that those who are already well-read and are humanities/social sciences majors uniquely benefit from CARS since they are used to reading dry essays and critiquing them actively. Since CARS isn't something that's "studyable" unlike the sciences (and psych/soc), it's a unique section in a way, even though the skills gathered from doing well on CARS also help to do well on the sciences.

In either case, there is this ambiguity on which section matters more that data don't readily show. The fact that accepted students/matriculants have lower CARS medians than the sciences doesn't mean adcoms weigh CARS least heavily. There are a lot of factors involved, which is why it's important to do well on all sections.

It means that matriculants on average score lower in CARS than the other sections. Which either means people simply score lower across the board and there are a smaller number of high scorers keeping the mean where it is, or, more likely, that adcoms simply allow for a slightly lower score in CARS for whatever reason. I don’t know what percentage of matriculants are ESL, nor do I know their mean CARS. That would help.

 

[calivianya]

I’m willing to bet every dollar of my students loans that the overwhelming majority of adcoms put CARS at the bottom of the list.

I hope not. That hurts me because it was my best section. It's so hard to figure out what adcoms are looking for.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I hope not. That hurts me because it was my best section. It's so hard to figure out what adcoms are looking for.

They want a good, well-balanced score.

 

[700825]

A look at Table 16 shows CARS having the lowest mean score at half a point lower than chem/phys and almost a full point lower than bio/biochem and psych/soc. So CARS definitely seems to get a little leeway.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf

When you control for what percentile each score corresponds to this doesn't seem to hold?

A 126 in CARS is 72nd percentile
A 126 in C/P is 67th
A 126 in Bio is 65th
A 126 in P/S is 64th

So while the CARS average score is lower it doesn't seem like the percentile is actually lower.

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ction_score_percentile_ranks_2017_for_web.pdf

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

When you control for what percentile each score corresponds to this doesn't seem to hold?

A 126 in CARS is 72nd percentile
A 126 in C/P is 67th
A 126 in Bio is 65th
A 126 in P/S is 64th

So while the CARS average score is lower it doesn't seem like the percentile is actually lower.

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fast...ction_score_percentile_ranks_2017_for_web.pdf

Right. The percentile is higher for a lower score, meaning people tend to do worst on CARS. That doesn’t really tell us whether med schools are granting that leeway because it’s not as important, because it’s more difficult, or because a lot of test takers are ESL (I think this is probably least likely, even if it is a part).

 

[Lucca]

If I were in your shoes I would retake. 123 is low enough that practicing to get a higher score in that section is a realistic goal. 515+ and the retake is worth.

It's up to you though. I dont think it would be the end of the world if you don't retake, the 123 wont necessarily kill you but it is very low.

 

[schistoguy]

Thank you for the replies everyone!

I have decided to re-take and will test again in January or March next year.

75% of y'all said it's only worth it if I can score a 515+ and 25% said worth it if can get 520+. I am aiming for 520+!

 

[Kingsmen2018]

I forbid you from retaking 510. Cars is usually the most forgivable

 

[schistoguy]

I forbid you from retaking 510. Cars is usually the most forgivable

haha I've already made up my mind my man! Different strokes for different folks but I don't think I came close to peaking my potential.

 

[MDPedigree]

haha I've already made up my mind my man! Different strokes for different folks but I don't think I came close to peaking my potential.

How many times have you taken the MCAT?

 

[schistoguy]

How many times have you taken the MCAT?

A couple times previously so that’s why I need a major jump!


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[878956]

123 is too low. You will get screened. If you can get that up to a 125, you should be good.

 

[hurtem&healem]

A couple times previously so that’s why I need a major jump!


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Wait, so this was already your third attempt? Don't take the MCAT a forth time. Just don't.

 

[878956]

Wait, so this was already your third attempt? Don't take the MCAT a forth time. Just don't.

I don't agree.


Considering this is a relatively new exam, A lot of schools just want the highest score possible. The highest score is the one that schools will report to the USNWR.

Granted they will see all MCAT attempts but if your GPA and EC's are good, i would try to apply with the highest number possible.

 

[schistoguy]

123 is too low. You will get screened. If you can get that up to a 125, you should be good.

that's my main goal with this attempt! I feel like, statistically, a modest jump like 123 to 125 shouldn't be over the moon hard.

 

[schistoguy]

Wait, so this was already your third attempt? Don't take the MCAT a forth time. Just don't.

Any explanation for your claim?

there have been different circumstances for each exam that I won't get in to here. Each exam has been a steady, albeit small, increase in scores. I now have more time and resources to score better than ever before. I've weighed the pro's and con's and while I agree it doesn't look great to take the MCAT this many times I've ultimately decided to do it. I know ADCOMs will most likely bring it up in interviews and I am prepared to discuss it.

 

[thinkchangeflow]

Any explanation for your claim?

there have been different circumstances for each exam that I won't get in to here. Each exam has been a steady, albeit small, increase in scores. I now have more time and resources to score better than ever before. I've weighed the pro's and con's and while I agree it doesn't look great to take the MCAT this many times I've ultimately decided to do it. I know ADCOMs will most likely bring it up in interviews and I am prepared to discuss it.

Can you post your breakdown for each attempt?

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[•Syzygy•]

Any explanation for your claim?

there have been different circumstances for each exam that I won't get in to here. Each exam has been a steady, albeit small, increase in scores. I now have more time and resources to score better than ever before. I've weighed the pro's and con's and while I agree it doesn't look great to take the MCAT this many times I've ultimately decided to do it. I know ADCOMs will most likely bring it up in interviews and I am prepared to discuss it.

the explanation is not really needed. having to take the mcat 4 times is a huge red flag. the step is a much harder test and adcoms wont want to take a chance on someone they think will need this many chances to pass

im not saying a 510 is even close to bad but still......

 

[Doc_Ock]

I don't agree.


Considering this is a relatively new exam, A lot of schools just want the highest score possible. The highest score is the one that schools will report to the USNWR.

Granted they will see all MCAT attempts but if your GPA and EC's are good, i would try to apply with the highest number possible.

It’s not considered new anymore.


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[878956]

the explanation is not really needed. having to take the mcat 4 times is a huge red flag. the step is a much harder test and adcoms wont want to take a chance on someone they think will need this many chances to pass

im not saying a 510 is even close to bad but still......

It’s not considered new anymore.


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Really, the old mcat was around for ten years before the change. This test has been around for about 2.5 years. There has been a the lack of practice materials provided by the AAMC to help students prepare. The old exam had 9 practice exams and not to mention the unlimited amount of accurate practice materials provided by the third-party companies. Ever heard of the SN2 method, essentially a day-by-day manual for premeds looking to do well on the accurate (the method was recommended for those that wanted a 30+ on the old mcat).

 

[Goro]

I suggest trying one app cycle to see how things go. If you get shut out, then do a retake.

...accidentally posted in premedical-DO at first but meant to post in here.


Hey guys,

I wanted some input how re-taking a 510 with (129,123,130,128) breakdown would look? I would never consider re-taking if the 510 was more balanced but I think a 123 CARS will close a lot of doors for me that a more balanced score wouldn't.

My practice exams were nothing like this breakdown and I feel like even improving on CARS will do a lot for my app. I have a 3.9 with 100+ hours shadowing, 500+ hours non-clinical and clinical volunteering, 1 leadership position in social organization, and 5,000+ hours immuno therapy research. I feel like I have a pretty good application besides this score and wish to aim for mid-top tier schools next cycle.

What are y'alls thoughts? I am also curious how big of a jump would be significant if re-taking. I hope to jump to 515+ (11 percentile increase) but think I can reach 519+ (15 percentile increase).

 

[Doc_Ock]

Really, the old mcat was around for ten years before the change. This test has been around for about 2.5 years. There has been a the lack of practice materials provided by the AAMC to help students prepare. The old exam had 9 practice exams and not to mention the unlimited amount of accurate practice materials provided by the third-party companies. Ever heard of the SN2 method, essentially a day-by-day manual for premeds looking to do well on the accurate (the method was recommended for those that wanted a 30+ on the old mcat).

At this point the test is well understood and there are plenty of practice materials.


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[thinkchangeflow]

the explanation is not really needed. having to take the mcat 4 times is a huge red flag. the step is a much harder test and adcoms wont want to take a chance on someone they think will need this many chances to pass

im not saying a 510 is even close to bad but still......

I think it depends....OP needs to post his scores and breakdowns. For example....lets say he had two crazy low scores and the 510. Then took AAMC practice test #3 and hit 520....a 4th attempt might make sense....however if his first two attempts are even sort of close to his 510 and if he takes AAMC practice test #3 and scores close to a 510...then a 4th attempt doesn't make sense at all.

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[hurtem&healem]

there have been different circumstances for each exam that I won't get in to here. Each exam has been a steady, albeit small, increase in scores. I now have more time and resources to score better than ever before. I've weighed the pro's and con's and while I agree it doesn't look great to take the MCAT this many times I've ultimately decided to do it. I know ADCOMs will most likely bring it up in interviews and I am prepared to discuss it.

What do you hope to do here, jump by 10 points? The odds of you doing that are infinitesimally small. With a more reasonable 2-3 point jump you don't actually gain enough to make up for the fact that it took you FOUR times to get that score. If you weren't prepared in your first two attempts, for whatever reason, it shows poor judgment that you took it anyway.

You scored really well in the other three sections. Apply broadly and be prepared to discuss your poor CARS score, rather than taking the exam yet again and hoping you'll get the chance to explain why it took you so many attempts.