retaking MCAT after getting 37..

[surag]

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So I took the MCAT in 2006...and I'm not yet in med school so as you can see i have to retake it (Because they're expired-this isn't a troll post, please note that-I know its a high score).

anyone know if people can improve or maintain scores? I checked the official stats and they're not promising...scores trend downward over 33 or something.

also is it important to show either an upward/same trend or will they forgive if I end up with a 33?

my breakdown: 14 P, 11 V, 12 B S writing
2.72 GPA (top 30 UG/feeder school)-everyone says with my GPA the qual of institution doesnt matter
1 yr rsrch nsrgry
1 summer rsrch biochem
1 semester rsrch neurobio
1 semester rsrch toxicology
volunteering in India-wen to villages for eye care and convince people to get treatment, basically door to door and set up mobile clinics(unfortunately did this in high school 🙁 )
volunteer ER-80 hrs
Currently finishing MPH 4.0GPA(state school)
postbacc program 2010fall(state school)

plan on retaking this april(applying this april for 2011 admin)

 

[AG22]

So I took the MCAT in 2006...and I'm not yet in med school so as you can see i have to retake it.

anyone know if people can improve or maintain scores? I checked the official stats and they're not promising...scores trend downward over 33 or something.

my breakdown: 14 P, 11 V, 12 B S writing
2.72 GPA (top 30 UG/feeder school)-everyone says with my GPA the qual of institution doesnt matter
1 yr rsrch nsrgry
1 summer rsrch biochem
1 semester rsrch neurobio
1 semester rsrch toxicology
volunteering in India-wen to villages for eye care and convince people to get treatment, basically door to door and set up mobile clinics(unfortunately did this in high school 🙁 )
volunteer ER-80 hrs
Currently finishing MPH 4.0GPA(state school)
postbacc program 2010fall(state school)

plan on retaking this april(applying this april for 2011 admin)

wow...umm, I wouldn't retake the mcat. In canada atleast, your scores are valid for 5 years. Dunno about the states. You've got a fantastic score btw!

p.s.! good luck!! =)

 

[IndianVercetti]

Dude, your MCAT is unbelievable, that's not the issue. Maybe its your GPA from undergrad, or something else in your application. But regardless, DON'T retake the MCAT.

 

[281261]

If you are applying in the states, then you have to retake, since your scores expire after 3 years. However, I think your GPA is the problem.

 

[surag]

thanks for the kudos...but thats not what im asking...

i know i have to retake it. its over 3 years old by the time i apply.

im asking how I can improve and what I can do. its a high score....what did students do when retaking?

also, is it important to match or do better? Or can one just get the same score or slightly less(around 35 say)??

 

[surag]

wow...umm, I wouldn't retake the mcat. In canada atleast, your scores are valid for 5 years. Dunno about the states. You've got a fantastic score btw!

p.s.! good luck!! =)

aww that was really really NICE of you!! you forgot to wish me gl and then posted it in....thanks! 👍👍 🙂

 

[ratatat]

Could you possibly do another undergrad to improve your GPA? Or maybe once you finish the MPH with that 4.0 schools will consider that? It's unfortunate because that 37 is ridiculous. Congrats on that by the way....I've never retaken an MCAT so I don't know how to attack a retake, but hopefully you're able to repeat that performance.

 

[AG22]

aww that was really really NICE of you!! you forgot to wish me gl and then posted it in....thanks! 👍👍 🙂

Awwh, you're welcome! 🙂

I'm a retaker....but I scored really low the first time, so the second time it was easier to do well. haha. I think your 37 will be hard to beat? But then again, nothing is impossible. Dedicate this entire summer to studying for the mcat and then do better or about the same. 35 can be okay if you explain in your P.S. that you took the first mcat right after your undergrad and your second mcat was taken after a gap of a few years. Then, a lower score in that context is understandable.

I actually think I had a moment of brilliance on VR. I have never scored so well in my entire two summers of practicing VR. So, my cry for divine guidance was heard, or something like that. While you are preparing....read a lot of boring stuff. The Economist, journals, novels...just keep reading. It helps not only with your vocab for when you write the WS, but it also expands your mind so that when you read VR passages, you get faster and have built up stamina reading some really boring material.

And, since I am no authority on VR, browse through this forum. take the time to understand what books were used. I have a feeling that many high scorers used Berkely Review books. I wish I had known of them earlier. They seem worthwhile.

I think the rest of your application looks solid too. Now it's all down to your PS and your retake. Keep your head up. And pray? haha That's how I got through this first hurdle. Now comes the rest of the stuff...applications, interviews, and then acceptance. GL.

 

[da Vincis World]

Just know that with a 37 less than 2% of all MCAT takers scored higher than you, you obviously know what it takes....I along with that remaining 98% are likely not qualified to give you advice.

Good luck.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

i have some good news and bad news...

the good news is that it's absolutely possible to maintain a 37+ performance.

the bad news is that since it's been so long since you took it (there's been a format change to computers as well) you're essentially starting from scratch. what i suggest is purging from your mind EVERY little bit of info you think you know about the test, and start anew. a common reason why MCAT scores go down on retakes is that people think they know what's coming, when the test is highly variable by administration. best of luck to you, use this forum liberally in your studies.

 

[BennieBlanco]

statistically I think 37s fall into the same place as a 40. Or maybe it was 39+ and 36-39?

I forget.

Don't retake, that is dumb. 37-42 = insignificant difference.

37-33(retake) hurts.

It isn't lose-lose. But it is neutral-lose.

so don't.

 

[Vihsadas]

What have you been doing in the time since you took the MCAT?

If you don't have a positive trend in undergrad courses, that is probably what is really holding you back. If you do have a positive trend, then I'm not sure. In my experience, as soon as I had two full years at a near 4.0 the floodgates opened.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

statistically I think 37s fall into the same place as a 40. Or maybe it was 39+ and 36-39?

I forget.

Don't retake, that is dumb. 37-42 = insignificant difference.

37-33(retake) hurts.

It isn't lose-lose. But it is neutral-lose.

so don't.

5 points on the MCAT is rarely an insignificant difference


people. pay attention to the OP's post.

 

[loveoforganic]

Seriously, over half the posters didn't even skim the post apparently. You have no choice but to retake, so I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it because there's nothing you can do about it. You're obviously smart - you might have bad luck and get a couple questions wrong and come out with a 35 next time or luck out and get a 40. With adequate prep, I don't see someone scoring a 37 on paper and not doing something comparable on a CBT.

Have you considered SMP's or DO? You could probably improve your GPA quickly for DO schools, for allopathic, not so much. If you're set on allopathic, I'd consider looking into SMP's. Of course, prior to that, it might be worth it to apply one more cycle following your MCAT just to give it a go and hopefully not waste a year trying to impress the adcom.

gl

 

[BennieBlanco]

5 points on the MCAT is rarely an insignificant difference


people. pay attention to the OP's post.

Lol, I guess I didn't read.

5 points isn't a huge difference from 37-42. From 32 to 37 yes, but not 37 to 42.

37 - 97.3 percentile
42 - 99.9 percentile

difference - 2.6%

32 - 85th percentile

difference 12%

____________________

How many more questions did the person get right?

PS VR BS
15 52-52 40-40 51-52
14 50-51 39-39 50-50
13 49-49 38-38 47-49
12 46-48 37-37 46-46

Assuming 13, 12, 12 (37)

Assuming 14, 14, 14 (42)

The difference in questions can be as small as:

42
PS: 50 correct
BS: 50 correct
VR: 39 correct

Total problems correct/attempted: 139/144

96.5% correct

37
PS: 48 correct
BS: 49 correct
VR: 37 correct

Total correct/attempted: 134/144

93% correct

Wow.

After exam in calss,

"what did you get dude?"

"93%"

"wow, that sucks! I did much much better than you."

"what did you get?"

"a 96%"

 

[dingyibvs]

Lol, I guess I didn't read.

5 points isn't a huge difference from 37-42. From 32 to 37 yes, but not 37 to 42.

37 - 97.3 percentile
42 - 99.9 percentile

difference - 2.6%

32 - 85th percentile

difference 12%

____________________

How many more questions did the person get right?

PS VR BS
15 52-52 40-40 51-52
14 50-51 39-39 50-50
13 49-49 38-38 47-49
12 46-48 37-37 46-46

Assuming 13, 12, 12 (37)

Assuming 14, 14, 14 (42)

The difference in questions can be as small as:

42
PS: 50 correct
BS: 50 correct
VR: 39 correct

Total problems correct/attempted: 139/144

96.5% correct

37
PS: 48 correct
BS: 49 correct
VR: 37 correct

Total correct/attempted: 134/144

93% correct

Wow.

After exam in calss,

"what did you get dude?"

"93%"

"wow, that sucks! I did much much better than you."

"what did you get?"

"a 96%"

That's faulty logic though. A 97.3 percentile means you're the best out of 37(36/37 = 97.3) test takers. A 99.9 percentile means you're the best out of 1000. Basically, it means that an adcom would have to look at TWENTY-SEVEN times as many applicants to find a guy with a 42 as it would take them to find a 37.


Also, the difference between a 97.3 and 85th percentile is only 1/37 and 1/6, so an adcom would only have to look at SIX times the number of applicants to find a 37 as opposed to a 32.


Just to draw an analogy, say the average medical school student has 1/100 type of intelligence, which means he's in the 99% percentile. But Albert Einstein had 1/1,000,000,000 type of intelligence, which means he's in the 99.9999999% percentile. The difference is only 0.9999999, but is it really insignificant?

 

[surag]

my post has nothing to do with trying to retake ONLY TO IMPROVE...

I HAVE TO RETAKE. because its EXPIRED.

lol.

also...breakdown.

Physical: 14, Verbal: 11, Bio 12 writing S

on my MCAT it said 37 was 98.6%.

39 was 99 and above was basically 99.99 onwards.

so for those who have some info...what can I do to improve or maintain?

also, thanks to one of the posts about how its changed. i knew that after the 06 mcat and im not sure how to practice for comptur based.

are there practice exams on computer etc?

 

[reapplicant5]

You should consider Canadian medical schools-most have them accept scores from tests taken within the past 5 years.

And the good thing is that they have hard cutoffs: above a certain GPA and MCAT score, you automatically get an interview. Once you get to the interview stage, only the interview matters at a few of the schools.

Check them out...

 

[BennieBlanco]

That's faulty logic though. A 97.3 percentile means you're the best out of 37(36/37 = 97.3) test takers. A 99.9 percentile means you're the best out of 1000. Basically, it means that an adcom would have to look at TWENTY-SEVEN times as many applicants to find a guy with a 42 as it would take them to find a 37.


Also, the difference between a 97.3 and 85th percentile is only 1/37 and 1/6, so an adcom would only have to look at SIX times the number of applicants to find a 37 as opposed to a 32.


Just to draw an analogy, say the average medical school student has 1/100 type of intelligence, which means he's in the 99% percentile. But Albert Einstein had 1/1,000,000,000 type of intelligence, which means he's in the 99.9999999% percentile. The difference is only 0.9999999, but is it really insignificant?

I believe it is, and I will say why.

Anyone who has ever taken a multiple choice test in their life will tell you that there are possibilities or scoring higher or lower.

In fact, statistically on IQ tests they find only an 87% correlation between 2 scores. I believe every person who got a 15 on the VR section from 2004-2007 didn't score a 15 again (not even 1!). WHY? WHY would that happen if they are in that 99.9999% percentile? They are the genius. Why do they not replicate their score. Actually in practice, rarely do those who score 15s repeat their score. There are plenty of real stats on this.

SO... a person who got 134 or 139 questions right could easily be the same person. Once you get into the 37+ range there is very little difference between these top scores.

Admissions committees KNOW this. They know that there is hardly any difference between a 37 and a 42 (1-5%). They don't look at 42s and think, WOW this person is 27 times more valuable. This is a fact. How do we know? Again, more statistics:

From 2005 to 2007 if you applied to medical school you had a 91.9% chance of getting in with a 37 and 3.8 - 4.0 GPA. With a 42 you had a 93% chance.

If Adcoms really thought they were that much better then there wouldn't be such a small delta there. But that is for a premium GPA, so lets say all GPAs to be fair.

The LARGEST difference is the aggregate of all applicants:

82.4% got accepted that scored 36-38 and 88.2% got accepted that scored 39+. Again less than 6% difference. The # is even deceptively high at 5.8% because there were only 5 applicants (in 3 years) with 39+ MCATs and a sub 3.0 GPA, while there were 120 applicants sub 3.0 with MCATs 36-38. (24 times more for the 36-38 club sub 3.0 GPA vs 39+ club sub 3.0 GPA, yet there are only 3.5 times more 36-38 MCAT applicants than 39+ MCAT applicants for ALL GPAs).

The acceptance rate plummets with sub 3.0 GPAs, which takes more off the 36-38 cummulative because there were just way more applicants (% wise) in that category to drop it.

The subtlties of the data don't matter though, the worst picture is still sub 6% difference.

So in reality about a 5% difference of acceptance. Which if you compare statistically to the % of people who retake and improve is NOT encouraging.

So it is insignificant in: getting into medical school, which is what I'm figured the outcome of the post is here. I'm not talking about potential as a human being or anything like that, just getting into school.

But again the OP has to retake. So we digress.

 

[Vihsadas]

Admissions committees KNOW this. They know that there is hardly any difference between a 37 and a 42 (1-5%).

True, verified in my own person experience at interviews and meetings etc. Some schools that have semi-formulaic ways of evaluating people pre-interview give everyone over a 38 or 39 a "100%" on the MCAT. However, there are other schools that DO pick the higher MCAT numbers, not because they truly believe that the student is smarter, but because, it's a higher number and that helps things like school's image funding etc. Afterall, if two applicants are totally equal otherwise, why not take the higher MCAT? Of course, you are also correct that re-taking based on this logic (not the OP lol) is a bad idea, since the difference in admissions statistics between high MCAT scores is not very large. There are almost certainly better ways to improve your application than re-taking the MCAT if you got a 37 already.

But again the OP has to retake. So we digress.

True again. 😛

 

[loveoforganic]

my post has nothing to do with trying to retake ONLY TO IMPROVE...

I HAVE TO RETAKE. because its EXPIRED.

lol.

also...breakdown.

Physical: 14, Verbal: 11, Bio 12 writing S

on my MCAT it said 37 was 98.6%.

39 was 99 and above was basically 99.99 onwards.

so for those who have some info...what can I do to improve or maintain?

also, thanks to one of the posts about how its changed. i knew that after the 06 mcat and im not sure how to practice for comptur based.

are there practice exams on computer etc?

I highly recommend SN2ed's schedule (stickied on the MCAT forum). There are numerous practice CBTs - the AAMC offers 8 themselves, TBR offers some, as do Kaplan, TPR, and GS. A new set of practice passages from the AAMC came out very recently (in book form) - The Official Guide to the MCAT. The passages are more similar to the format of the current MCAT than the AAMC CBT FL's. However, the AAMC CBT FL's are very predictive of your score.

 

[ezsanche]

I am pretty sure if you got a 37 the first time you "know" what it will take to ace the exam the second time around. You need to practice! Maybe you need to do a light content review but after that just practice doing passages and tests.

 

[ezsanche]

I believe it is, and I will say why.

Anyone who has ever taken a multiple choice test in their life will tell you that there are possibilities or scoring higher or lower.

In fact, statistically on IQ tests they find only an 87% correlation between 2 scores. I believe every person who got a 15 on the VR section from 2004-2007 didn't score a 15 again (not even 1!). WHY? WHY would that happen if they are in that 99.9999% percentile? They are the genius. Why do they not replicate their score. Actually in practice, rarely do those who score 15s repeat their score. There are plenty of real stats on this.

SO... a person who got 134 or 139 questions right could easily be the same person. Once you get into the 37+ range there is very little difference between these top scores.

Admissions committees KNOW this. They know that there is hardly any difference between a 37 and a 42 (1-5%). They don't look at 42s and think, WOW this person is 27 times more valuable. This is a fact. How do we know? Again, more statistics:

From 2005 to 2007 if you applied to medical school you had a 91.9% chance of getting in with a 37 and 3.8 - 4.0 GPA. With a 42 you had a 93% chance.

If Adcoms really thought they were that much better then there wouldn't be such a small delta there. But that is for a premium GPA, so lets say all GPAs to be fair.

The LARGEST difference is the aggregate of all applicants:

82.4% got accepted that scored 36-38 and 88.2% got accepted that scored 39+. Again less than 6% difference. The # is even deceptively high at 5.8% because there were only 5 applicants (in 3 years) with 39+ MCATs and a sub 3.0 GPA, while there were 120 applicants sub 3.0 with MCATs 36-38. (24 times more for the 36-38 club sub 3.0 GPA vs 39+ club sub 3.0 GPA, yet there are only 3.5 times more 36-38 MCAT applicants than 39+ MCAT applicants for ALL GPAs).

The acceptance rate plummets with sub 3.0 GPAs, which takes more off the 36-38 cummulative because there were just way more applicants (% wise) in that category to drop it.

The subtlties of the data don't matter though, the worst picture is still sub 6% difference.

So in reality about a 5% difference of acceptance. Which if you compare statistically to the % of people who retake and improve is NOT encouraging.

So it is insignificant in: getting into medical school, which is what I'm figured the outcome of the post is here. I'm not talking about potential as a human being or anything like that, just getting into school.

But again the OP has to retake. So we digress.

I agree with your argument but I think it is when you get in the 36+ and above range. 😀

 

[dingyibvs]

I believe it is, and I will say why.

Anyone who has ever taken a multiple choice test in their life will tell you that there are possibilities or scoring higher or lower.

In fact, statistically on IQ tests they find only an 87% correlation between 2 scores. I believe every person who got a 15 on the VR section from 2004-2007 didn't score a 15 again (not even 1!). WHY? WHY would that happen if they are in that 99.9999% percentile? They are the genius. Why do they not replicate their score. Actually in practice, rarely do those who score 15s repeat their score. There are plenty of real stats on this.

SO... a person who got 134 or 139 questions right could easily be the same person. Once you get into the 37+ range there is very little difference between these top scores.

Admissions committees KNOW this. They know that there is hardly any difference between a 37 and a 42 (1-5%). They don't look at 42s and think, WOW this person is 27 times more valuable. This is a fact. How do we know? Again, more statistics:

From 2005 to 2007 if you applied to medical school you had a 91.9% chance of getting in with a 37 and 3.8 - 4.0 GPA. With a 42 you had a 93% chance.

If Adcoms really thought they were that much better then there wouldn't be such a small delta there. But that is for a premium GPA, so lets say all GPAs to be fair.

The LARGEST difference is the aggregate of all applicants:

82.4% got accepted that scored 36-38 and 88.2% got accepted that scored 39+. Again less than 6% difference. The # is even deceptively high at 5.8% because there were only 5 applicants (in 3 years) with 39+ MCATs and a sub 3.0 GPA, while there were 120 applicants sub 3.0 with MCATs 36-38. (24 times more for the 36-38 club sub 3.0 GPA vs 39+ club sub 3.0 GPA, yet there are only 3.5 times more 36-38 MCAT applicants than 39+ MCAT applicants for ALL GPAs).

The acceptance rate plummets with sub 3.0 GPAs, which takes more off the 36-38 cummulative because there were just way more applicants (% wise) in that category to drop it.

The subtlties of the data don't matter though, the worst picture is still sub 6% difference.

So in reality about a 5% difference of acceptance. Which if you compare statistically to the % of people who retake and improve is NOT encouraging.

So it is insignificant in: getting into medical school, which is what I'm figured the outcome of the post is here. I'm not talking about potential as a human being or anything like that, just getting into school.

But again the OP has to retake. So we digress.

Umm, I think I digressed a bit further, lol. I actually meant to just refute your percentile argument, pointing out the flaws of comparing between 97 and 99th percentile and 97 and 85th percentile.

Actually, I think a 35+ on the MCAT makes little difference. It might help the schools raise their MCAT average for rankings purposes and stuff, but I think that's about it.

 

[surag]

I highly recommend SN2ed's schedule (stickied on the MCAT forum). There are numerous practice CBTs - the AAMC offers 8 themselves, TBR offers some, as do Kaplan, TPR, and GS. A new set of practice passages from the AAMC came out very recently (in book form) - The Official Guide to the MCAT. The passages are more similar to the format of the current MCAT than the AAMC CBT FL's. However, the AAMC CBT FL's are very predictive of your score.

thank you!

What is FL?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

One can argue the relevance of a 37 vs 42. I refuse to accept that there is no significance based both on personal experience and statistical reasons. If you think 5 questions on the MCAT (on the MINIMUM. it's probably more) is no big deal, then I have nothing to say to you. For reference, that's a whole passage.

 

[BennieBlanco]

Umm, I think I digressed a bit further, lol. I actually meant to just refute your percentile argument, pointing out the flaws of comparing between 97 and 99th percentile and 97 and 85th percentile.

Actually, I think a 35+ on the MCAT makes little difference. It might help the schools raise their MCAT average for rankings purposes and stuff, but I think that's about it.

agreed!

 

[BennieBlanco]

One can argue the relevance of a 37 vs 42. I refuse to accept that there is no significance based both on personal experience and statistical reasons. If you think 5 questions on the MCAT (on the MINIMUM. it's probably more) is no big deal, then I have nothing to say to you. For reference, that's a whole passage.

Whole passage. Lol.

Assuming it was a whole passage. (5 question per passage). That would mean there were approximately 29 passages.

"How many passages did you ace?"

"I aced 28 of the passages, how about you?

"I did wayyyyyy better than you."

"how is that possible dude, there were only 29 passages."

"Yeah, I got all 29."

Lets change this to sports.

"I made 29 freethrows in a row. How many did you make?"

"28"

wow. Big difference.

Everyone knows that a guy who got 29 in a row could easily only do 28 the next time. If the same person can get the same result very easily, then the adcoms know that a guy getting a 37 or 42 are pretty much in the same boat.

Before I understood the scoring I also thought, "wow. a 42 is wayyy better than a 37 or 38." Once I actually looked at the #'s and understood them I realized that a guy who got a 37 or a 42 is relatively similar in testing ability.

 

[BennieBlanco]

True, verified in my own person experience at interviews and meetings etc. Some schools that have semi-formulaic ways of evaluating people pre-interview give everyone over a 38 or 39 a "100%" on the MCAT. However, there are other schools that DO pick the higher MCAT numbers, not because they truly believe that the student is smarter, but because, it's a higher number and that helps things like school's image funding etc. Afterall, if two applicants are totally equal otherwise, why not take the higher MCAT? Of course, you are also correct that re-taking based on this logic (not the OP lol) is a bad idea, since the difference in admissions statistics between high MCAT scores is not very large. There are almost certainly better ways to improve your application than re-taking the MCAT if you got a 37 already.

True again. 😛

Vihsadas knows more than all of us. argument done.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Whole passage. Lol.

Assuming it was a whole passage. (5 question per passage). That would mean there were approximately 29 passages.

"How many passages did you ace?"

"I aced 28 of the passages, how about you?

"I did wayyyyyy better than you."

"how is that possible dude, there were only 29 passages."

"Yeah, I got all 29."

Lets change this to sports.

"I made 29 freethrows in a row. How many did you make?"

"28"

wow. Big difference.

admissions committees know this. This is why there is rarely a statistical difference.

Everyone knows that a guy who got 29 in a row could easily only do 28 the next time. If the same person can get the same result very easily, then the adcoms know that a guy getting a 37 or 42 are pretty much in the same boat.

there are 21 passages on the current mcat with 5-7 questions each. fact.

if you miss one whole passage more than another person, that's a big difference in a test with 21.

finally, to be quite frank, if you have not scored in these ranges, you don't know. the level of preparation required to consistently hit 42s and consistently hit 37s is DRAMATICALLY different. do people go up and down based on luck? sure. but i can tell you that those who score more than 2 points above their AAMC average are exceedingly rare at all score ranges.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

to add to the last point - ask anyone who scored 40-42 if they think they could have scored a 45 on a good day. i have a feeling that they will say absolutely no way. i know of 4, and none think a 45 would have been possible. in terms of questions missed, this is an even smaller range than 37-42.

 

[BennieBlanco]

there are 21 passages on the current mcat with 5-7 questions each. fact.

if you miss one whole passage more than another person, that's a big difference in a test with 21.

finally, to be quite frank, if you have not scored in these ranges, you don't know. the level of preparation required to consistently hit 42s and consistently hit 37s is DRAMATICALLY different. do people go up and down based on luck? sure. but i can tell you that those who score more than 2 points above their AAMC average are exceedingly rare at all score ranges.

lol. silliness. 5 questions is 1 of 29 pies.

If you want to say there are only 21 passages with no distincts, that would break down to 6.85 questions per passage.

if you have not scored in these ranges, you don't know.the level of preparation required to consistently hit 42s and consistently hit 37s is DRAMATICALLY different

This is silliness too. The data is what the data is, if I have scored a 2 or 45. But even if that were true, Vish scored a 40+ and just stated that what I am saying is true.

Plus by "consistenly" you are likely referring to practice exams, there is no data on this. only anecdotal evidence that you read on SDN. The actual data for retakers (of all skill levels, scoring 15s 14s etc) has a high correlation for scoring LESS, especially the higher you go. The data says that people don't tend to score the SAME score over and over. This can be proven by looking at AAMC data. You are wrong.🙂

Vihsadas
Some schools that have semi-formulaic ways of evaluating people pre-interview give everyone over a 38 or 39 a "100%" on the MCAT.

I like how I use data for everything I say and you just say:

i can tell you ....

sure buddy. I can listen to you, OR people in medical school and the data given by the AAMC.

 

[loveoforganic]

thank you!

What is FL?

Full length (complete practice test)

 

[RogueUnicorn]

This is silliness too. The data is what the data is, if I have scored a 2 or 45. But even if that were true, Vish scored a 40+ and just stated that what I am saying is true.

Plus by "consistenly" you are likely referring to practice exams, there is no data on this. only anecdotal evidence that you read on SDN. The actual data for retakers (of all skill levels, scoring 15s 14s etc) has a high correlation for scoring LESS, especially the higher you go. The data says that people don't tend to score the SAME score over and over. This can be proven by looking at AAMC data. You are wrong.🙂
I like how I use data for everything I say and you just say:
sure buddy. I can listen to you, OR people in medical school and the data given by the AAMC.

you refuse to listen to me yet what the other guy is saying MUST be true because you agree with him. makes total sense.

what you claim as "data" is misused and irrelevant. people score less on retakes because of the way the mcat is given, not because it's a crapshoot. in fact, the fact that scores tend to go down is an indication the mcat score is NOT a random process. on top of all of this, i have never claimed anyone would score the same score over and over. there is deviation, but it's much tighter than what you seem to believe. and while we're talking about data, it's the DATA that gives us the fact that a 42 is a MAGNITUDE apart from a 37.

finally, 1/29 is signficant. it can mean the difference of passing and failing to some depending on context. not to mention the fact that 5 is the absolute minimum in raw score difference; you're taking an extreme and running with it.

again, i don't particularly care one way or the other what you believe, it doesn't affect me or anyone else really. but i challenge you to go up to a 42 and tell him/her that he/she essentially scored a 37.

 

[BennieBlanco]

you refuse to listen to me yet what the other guy is saying MUST be true because you agree with him. makes total sense.

what you claim as "data" is misused and irrelevant. people score less on retakes because of the way the mcat is given, not because it's a crapshoot. in fact, the fact that scores tend to go down is an indication the mcat score is NOT a random process. on top of all of this, i have never claimed anyone would score the same score over and over. there is deviation, but it's much tighter than what you seem to believe. and while we're talking about data, it's the DATA that gives us the fact that a 42 is a MAGNITUDE apart from a 37.

finally, 1/29 is signficant. it can mean the difference of passing and failing to some depending on context. not to mention the fact that 5 is the absolute minimum in raw score difference; you're taking an extreme and running with it.

again, i don't particularly care one way or the other what you believe, it doesn't affect me or anyone else really. but i challenge you to go up to a 42 and tell him/her that he/she essentially scored a 37.

I think we are talking about different things as I reread your post. I am saying this:

When regarding gaining admissions to medical school there is very little difference (5% in acceptance) between achieving a score of 37 or 42 and is therefore insignificant.

I believe your argument is this:

The amount of difficultly of raising your score from 37 to 42 is high and is therefore significant.

I agree with your argument, but I also agree with mine.

MCAT testing is like a electrical switch. If you achieve a certain level, you are allowed to attend a certain school. That is all testing is. People in the academia world put more weight on it than it deserves.

I will bet on the guy who has to break his back to achieve a 33 or 42 rather than a guy who barely had to lift a finger and got a 43. Effort/persistence/passion > talent

always. If you have both then you become Tiger Woods.

 

[BennieBlanco]

.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I think we are talking about different things as I reread your post. I am saying this:

When regarding gaining admissions to medical school there is very little difference (5% in acceptance) between achieving a score of 37 or 42 and is therefore insignificant.

I believe your argument is this:

The amount of difficultly of raising your score from 37 to 42 is high and is therefore significant.

I agree with your argument, but I also agree with mine.

MCAT testing is like a electrical switch. If you achieve a certain level, you are allowed to attend a certain school. That is all testing is. People in the academia world put more weight on it than it deserves.

I will bet on the guy who has to break his back to achieve a 33 or 42 rather than a guy who barely had to lift a finger and got a 43. Effort/persistence/passion > talent

always. If you have both then you become Tiger Woods.

agreed on all counts

 

[Vihsadas]

to add to the last point - ask anyone who scored 40-42 if they think they could have scored a 45 on a good day. i have a feeling that they will say absolutely no way. i know of 4, and none think a 45 would have been possible. in terms of questions missed, this is an even smaller range than 37-42.

Not to be a spoilsport. But I think I could have on a really, really good day...I think it would have been extremely rare, but I have scored 15 on each section on different practice exams (AAMC) and so with the right exam and the right alignment of stars I think it could happen. If the difference between a 43 and a 45 is potentially 2-4 questions, there is a 1/8 - 1/128 chance that someone who can get a 43 can also get a 45 by guessing. It would probably take 20-30 sittings. And I know that if I could have done it, then there are definitely people in the 40+ range that are way smarter than I am who probably could do it if they studied as hard as I did, and again, if the stars aligned...but all of this is really just driving home the point that at some level of score, (without repeated administrations) it's impossible to tell "Whose better". I put that score level tentatively at around a 38. Past that point, you'd have to have people sit for the MCAT 5 or 6 times to see if they are *really* able to score 43 everytime.

 

[hiiiEEE]

There is little difference between a 36 and a 39 or even a 39 and 42. A 36 is 12s across the three sections and a 39 is 13s. Which can correspond to as little as 3 extra questions correct on a test of 150+ problems.

Most good schools look at your mcat as a requirement rather than a weight. Sure, a 39 is better than a 36, but the score will carry little weight in your favor. The mcat is based on averages, thus a bell curve. So, a three point spread will more than likely be the deciding factor between a student who gets a 30 and a student who gets a 27 (assuming public state schools).

As far as your gpa, they will focus more on your recent mph program's 4.0. I had a sub 1 after my freshman year, 3.8 my soph, 3.97 jr and 4.0 sr. I go to duke undergrad and have a close relationship with the dean at the med school. He suggested my gpa was fine, but be prepared to explain during interview time because it will be come up.

If you get a 35, I am sure you'll be fine. And as the post mentions above, could easily explain your few point decrease due to time gap in related course work. But, also understand that low 30s or even high 20s and your 37 will look like a fluke considering your low gpa on course work that mcat tests on.

 

[Pet of the Week]

I have to retake mine too. I took it in 2005. My old school offered a review course, but now I have to start over on my own. It would be less frustrating if I had done poorly the first time. I'm sure you will be fine even if you drop a few points. They should receive a report of both scores. They will know that 37 wasn't an accident. Don't stress, and good luck.

 

[surag]

what the heck? since when did this thread get hijacked into a stupid argument about something irrelevant to what i wanted/
peace.

close thread please.

 

[supafield]

what the heck? since when did this thread get hijacked into a stupid argument about something irrelevant to what i wanted/
peace.

close thread please.

Surag...

I scored a 31R in 2006.... Canadian cutoffs ruined my otherwise good score so I retook in 2008.... 32S... I did nearly the exact same thing both times. The MCAT is part practice, part skill and part luck....

Give yourself the time to get to the same level of comprehension as before. The skill which you have already shown you possess is quite inherent and will improved by practice tests. Luck is one you can't control.... A 14 in physical sciences is amazing but on any given test you may just by chance get a few more questions you don't get for whatever reason and a 14 can become a 12 or 11.

3 years may be a while but I don't think you are TOO far removed from your original attempt. If you take roughly the same approach to it this time, my guess is you'll score roughly the same give or take a few points.

Best of luck.

 

[ezsanche]

Whole passage. Lol.

Assuming it was a whole passage. (5 question per passage). That would mean there were approximately 29 passages.

"How many passages did you ace?"

"I aced 28 of the passages, how about you?

"I did wayyyyyy better than you."

"how is that possible dude, there were only 29 passages."

"Yeah, I got all 29."

Lets change this to sports.

"I made 29 freethrows in a row. How many did you make?"

"28"

wow. Big difference.

Everyone knows that a guy who got 29 in a row could easily only do 28 the next time. If the same person can get the same result very easily, then the adcoms know that a guy getting a 37 or 42 are pretty much in the same boat.

Before I understood the scoring I also thought, "wow. a 42 is wayyy better than a 37 or 38." Once I actually looked at the #'s and understood them I realized that a guy who got a 37 or a 42 is relatively similar in testing ability.

Yeah I definitely agree. A person with a 42 can easily score a 37 the next time around or vice versa. That is why the percentile changes very little.
If you score a 37 you are around the 98 percentile range. With a 42 you are at a 99.99 percentile. Even though there is a 5 points difference you really didn't improve that much.

But if to say one person scores a 27 and another person scores a 32 then that is a huge difference even though there is still that same 5 points difference. A 27 will put you in the 55 percent range and an 32 will put you at the 85 percent range. That is a 30 percent range different!

Once you reach a certain level on the MCAT then your GPA and the difficulty of your curriculum start to determine who is the "statistically" better candidate.
For example, imo a person with a 4.0 GPA and a 36 on the MCAT will be ranked higher than a person with a mcat score of 3.0 GPA and a 40 MCAT.

 

[surag]

Once you reach a certain level on the MCAT then your GPA and the difficulty of your curriculum start to determine who is the "statistically" better candidate.
For example, imo a person with a 4.0 GPA and a 36 on the MCAT will be ranked higher than a person with a mcat score of 3.0 GPA and a 40 MCAT.

I agree with this and this is what has hurt me the most.

While its true that someone with a 36 and a 40 are about the same, I think its unfortunate that schools wont give equal weight to MCAT and GPAs. If they did then a lot more state schools with 27-28 MCAT averages would accept students with GPAs like mine. however, because their curriculums may be easier than say an elite private school and since the vast majority of students who get into said state school probably studied undergrad there then it becomes harder for students like me.

In short, going to an elite school can be a crutch if you do not succeed there! Basically what this says is that schools dont care about what you study, how smart you are, or what type of person you are...they just care about how hard you are willing to work within certain paramters.

This doesnt really apply to the top 25 or so schools as they have a preference for all of the above...but most dont attend these schools where as most do attend the remaining 100 odd schools that seem to place an inordinate preference on GPA...which is unfair IMO.

 

[womp]

If I were hiring, I'd take a Top 10 undergrad with a 3.0 over some mid-to-low tier college grad with a 4.0 any day of the week. What's the point of going to a good college otherwise? The competition pool between a Top 10 school and a low-ranked 15,000 student per class university is simply not in the same league. Also higher ranked schools emphasize more about leadership and taking risks (i.e., not doing "Premed" and obsessing about your GPA). If I were the adcom, I'd rank MCAT > college reputation > GPA.

People also generally revert to their high school persona and ambitions as they age.

I bet Bill Gates would agree.

 

[BennieBlanco]

If I were hiring, I'd take a Top 10 undergrad with a 3.0 over some mid-to-low tier college grad with a 4.0 any day of the week. What's the point of going to a good college otherwise? The competition pool between a Top 10 school and a low-ranked 15,000 student per class university is simply not in the same league. Also higher ranked schools emphasize more about leadership and taking risks (i.e., not doing "Premed" and obsessing about your GPA). If I were the adcom, I'd rank MCAT > college reputation > GPA.

People also generally revert to their high school persona and ambitions as they age.

I bet Bill Gates would agree.

You are right. Also I would add height, hair quality, school colors, charisma, body fat % and wit.

It should be Height > hair quality > MCAT > school colors (blue/red #1) > charisma > wit > body fat % > college rep > GPA

adcoms are dumb.

Brad Pitt would agree with this ranking

 

[womp]

You are right. Also I would add height, hair quality, school colors, charisma, body fat % and wit.

It should be Height > hair quality > MCAT > school colors (blue/red #1) > charisma > wit > body fat % > college rep > GPA

adcoms are dumb.

Brad Pitt would agree with this ranking

Most adcoms already use the attractiveness, smile, height, hair, body fat, charisma standard. If you haven't noticed on your interviews, the top tier med schools all have very attractive and very fit current students, much higher than the general population and higher than medium to lower tier med schools. It comes in through the interview.

 

[ezsanche]

If I were hiring, I'd take a Top 10 undergrad with a 3.0 over some mid-to-low tier college grad with a 4.0 any day of the week. What's the point of going to a good college otherwise? The competition pool between a Top 10 school and a low-ranked 15,000 student per class university is simply not in the same league. Also higher ranked schools emphasize more about leadership and taking risks (i.e., not doing "Premed" and obsessing about your GPA). If I were the adcom, I'd rank MCAT > college reputation > GPA.

People also generally revert to their high school persona and ambitions as they age.

I bet Bill Gates would agree.

Let me guess you went to a top10 school and have a GPA around 3.0?

 

[apumic]

Let me guess you went to a top10 school and have a GPA around 3.0?

lol, burn!


Med schools don't care where you went to school if you didn't succeed there. A B-average student at many of the "top" UGs is actually closer to a <3.0 anywhere else due to the extreme grade inflation at some of these institutions...

 

[dingyibvs]

lol, burn!


Med schools don't care where you went to school if you didn't succeed there. A B-average student at many of the "top" UGs is actually closer to a <3.0 anywhere else due to the extreme grade inflation at some of these institutions...

Yep. At Stanford, for example, you can drop a class at ANY time for no consequence whatsoever. I don't think it'll even appear on your transcript at all.