Revoking Texas DL for California DL/Residency. Am I crazy? No residency anywhere

[twixmoments]

For context, I am a nontrad, currently working a tech career for about 2 years now and considering joining a post-bacc next year. Grew up my entire life in Texas, went to high school in Texas, and my parents still live and own a home in Texas. I still really like Texas but life/work just brought me elsewhere. However, I went to undergrad outside of Texas, worked in NY for a year, and just moved to California this past January 1st. As of now, within a medical school admissions context, I technically don't have official state residency anywhere lol.

I kept my Texas DL just in case I wanted to prove my residency. However, I am starting to realize that technically having a Texas DL doesn't really influence my state residency.

From TMDSAS:

1. Graduated from a Texas high school or received a GED in Texas; and
2. Lived in Texas for the 36 months immediately before high school graduation; and
3. Lived in Texas continuously for the 12 months immediately preceding the application deadline."

I fit the first two requirements, it is unlikely I will fit the third. Even if I were to move to Texas now, there aren't really any good career-changer post baccs in the state so I will likely have to leave and lose that requirement. The alternative is finish the post-bacc, deliberately delay applying after the post-bacc, pray to find a full-time job in Texas, and move to Texas for year, then apply. My thought is, if I have ties to Texas but it is unlikely that I will be considered a state resident, maybe I should just try to gain some semblance of ties/residency in California, and then apply to both states with ties to California, and ties to Texas?

This is California's requirement:
To establish residence, you must be physically present in California with the intent to make California your permanent home, and you must demonstrate by your actions that you have given up your former residence to establish a residence in California. Once you have established your residence in California, you must reside in California for more than one year (366 days) before you will be eligible to be classified as a resident for tuition purposes.

This year around October, I plan on applying to a wide variety of formal post-bacc programs (Scripps, Goucher, etc.). If I get accepted to one, I plan on extending my lease for one month to hit the 366 days and have utilities/rent payments to prove it, and then will move back with my parents in Texas and work remotely to aggressively save money until the program begins again (technically will still be paying CA taxes the entire time).

Regardless, since I will be leaving right after I "establish residency", I will likely not even qualify as being a CA in-state resident once I apply. Unfortunately, living at home is going to be a requirement to afford these programs. However, it might be worth it to at least have ties to the state and maybe attempt to gain residency by getting a DL? Maybe, just maybe, I can still claim residency for CA? Texas, I frankly have no chance.

There is a possibility that the post-bacc I attend will be in CA, but I'm applying all over the country so I can't really count on being in CA.

I'm just getting confused writing all of this. It looks like most likely, I will have no state residency anywhere when I apply which kind of sucks. I MIGHT be able to squeeze a CA residency by some miracle. Any kind soul out there who can help me navigate this mess? Is it worth revoking my Texas DL for a California DL?

I would love to go to med school at either CA or TX, but if I can't get state residency at either it's kind of fighting an uphill battle.

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[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Applying to a school within your first 1-2 years of living in a state (depending on which state) usually precludes you from "intending to make State your permanent home" as they consider pursuing education (and in-state tuition) to be an ulterior motive.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

At least that's how it was when I was applying to masters years ago. I could be totally talking out my butt regarding AMCAS stuff.

 

[gyngyn]

I would love to go to med school at either CA or TX, but if I can't get state residency at either it's kind of fighting an uphill battle.

You should do whatever is necessary to keep your TX residency!
Only 17% of CA applicants matriculated into an IS school. Compare that to 31% of Texans.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6016/download?attachment

 

[twixmoments]

@gyngyn Thanks for the message. Realistically, unless I delay a year/an app cycle before applying to med school after post-bacc just solely dedicated to living in Texas, this will unfortunately not be possible. It also seems like having a Texas DL has little to no influence on whether I am viewed as a resident as it's more about going to HS in Texas and being there 12 months before app deadlines (see above). Do you think it's worth keeping my Texas DL or switching to CA and at least trying to get CA residence/some ties? It shouldn't have any influence on my Texas residency ( unless I'm mistaken ). My idea is that if I can't get residency in a state, might as well at least get "ties" to each state? For Texas, the fact I went to HS there and was raised there, my parents living there and for California, the fact that I lived there for a year, registered my car and got a CA DL.

Or just forget all this and keep my Texas DL?

This is confusing, man

 

[gyngyn]

Sadly, being a resident of CA is an impediment to successful MD matriculation.
Most successful CA applicants matriculate OOS.
We don't have data to compare whether being a CA resident is actually worse than no residence at all (at least I can't find it). The table I posted only shows 26 applicants with legal residence "unknown." I know there are way more than that in your situation.

I don't think the driver's license matters much at all.

How about a DIY post-bac in TX?

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

Oof, my state is 16.5 as well.

Does this mean I should move a bit further west XD??


Never seen these numbers before what an eye opener.


OP why does texas have so many rules good god :X

I would almost consider asking an attorney, your legal definition may preclude the medical school's definition? Not sure if schools actually have legal authority to determine who is "in-state" but uphill battles are never fun. This sounds like "Are you Texan enough?" which seems discriminatory.

:{ Just venting alongside you my friend....

 

[GoSpursGo]

OP why does texas have so many rules good god :X

I would almost consider asking an attorney, your legal definition may preclude the medical school's definition? Not sure if schools actually have legal authority to determine who is "in-state" but uphill battles are never fun. This sounds like "Are you Texan enough?" which seems discriminatory.

... no, getting an attorney will not help. In general, schools' definitions are rooted in the state's definition of residence.

It isn't a question of whether the OP is "Texan enough," it's really is getting to the question of whether they have paid state taxes which are in turn used to subsidize the tuition at Texas medical schools. Same for most other states' med schools, they don't want taxpayer money going to reduce tuition for people who have not paid into the state (hence CA saying you can't claim residence for 366 days, aka ensuring you pay your CA state taxes at least once).

 

[Approach]

Nontrad here, why not do a DIY post bacc in Texas while continuing to work remotely at your job? And of course update your address with your employer so that you are paying Texas state taxes and not CA. Is that possible?

 

[GoSpursGo]

@twixmoments where are you getting the information that there aren't good post-bacc programs in Texas? A quick google brought this document up: https://careercenter.tamu.edu/Documents/PSA/Handouts/Misc/postbachandout.aspx . Maybe they aren't as well-known outside of Texas, but if your end goal is to get into a Texas medical school anyways then theoretically that shouldn't matter too much.

I think maintaining your Texas state residency will, by far, improve your chances of medical school admission than chasing a specific post-bacc program.

 

[twixmoments]

@twixmoments where are you getting the information that there aren't good post-bacc programs in Texas? A quick google brought this document up: https://careercenter.tamu.edu/Documents/PSA/Handouts/Misc/postbachandout.aspx . Maybe they aren't as well-known outside of Texas, but if your end goal is to get into a Texas medical school anyways then theoretically that shouldn't matter too much.

I think maintaining your Texas state residency will, by far, improve your chances of medical school admission than chasing a specific post-bacc program.

Thanks for sharing those resources. Unfortunately, none of those programs are really tailored to career-changers and are more GPA-boosting programs . There is one at the University of St. Thomas but it would require me to quit my job and pursue the program FT - and tuition wise costs are comparable to the more well-known programs at Goucher, Agnes Scott, GWU, etc which have far more structure and the 90-95%+ acceptance rates. Even if I were to go to UST full time, I'm not sure if that year will count towards being a TX resident since I will be a FT student and not pay taxes.

And per @Approach I simply couldn't find a night-time friendly post bacc, even DIY with consistently evening sections nearby in the Dallas / Houston area. I could quit my job and do DIY FT as a non-degree seeking student but I think I would really benefit from having the guidance and potentially linkage of a structured program.

Without spending an extra year essentially just to get Texas residency before starting my post-bacc it still seems like the best option is going to just get into one of the top post-baccs and just pray for the best / squeeze and get linkage without state residency. I do plan on living in TX for my application year/gap year so potentially if I get in nowhere during the application cycle I could lean on being an in-state the next cycle? Ideally, it wouldn't come to that and I get in SOMEWHERE the first cycle lol.

Does anyone know how much/if state ties mean anything for TX or CA admissions? E.G, going to HS in Texas, living there for several years before HS, having parents, OR working and volunteering in CA companies and hospitals, paying taxes, etc.

 

[wysdoc]

@twixmoments read the posts I made about Texas residency here: #30
You can read the whole thread, but the more updated information starts at post # 30 which I linked above.

Your parents live in Texas and own a home in Texas. You graduated from HS in Texas. I think it is very likely you will be adjudged a Texas resident when TMDSAS evaluates your status.

90% of TMDSAS matriculants must be TX residents. If you are applying as an OOS student, we don't care about your Texas ties, we care about your GPA and MCAT score. How are those? Why do you feel the need to do an SMP?

p.s. TCOM has an excellent 1 year post-bac and Baylor has one also. However these postbacs are a full-time endeavor and you cannot do well in them while working full time.

 

[twixmoments]

@twixmoments read the posts I made about Texas residency here: #30
You can read the whole thread, but the more updated information starts at post # 30 which I linked above.

Your parents live in Texas and own a home in Texas. You graduated from HS in Texas. I think it is very likely you will be adjudged a Texas resident when TMDSAS evaluates your status.

90% of TMDSAS matriculants must be TX residents. If you are applying as an OOS student, we don't care about your Texas ties, we care about your GPA and MCAT score. How are those? Why do you feel the need to do an SMP?

Hi there @wysdoc - thank you SO MUCH for the response/help. If this is true, that is great news. I assume you're talking about this portion below. Just to clarify, I am 2+ years out of an OOS college, worked in different states and have filed taxes independently from my parents, none of which have been in Texas.

From what I understand, when it says below that independent taxpayers "may gain resident status if YOU establish domicile in the state", wouldn't that preclude my parents in that case? I would need to own the property or work full-time in Texas for 12 consecutive months prior to the app deadline, myself, right? When it says "you or your parents must meet the following criteria", does that mean for BOTH independent and dependent tax payers? If so, that's incredible news and I would definitely keep my Texas DL and residence! Not sure if I'm misunderstanding this.

Option 2: Residency by Establishing Domicile
To establish domicile, you or your parent(s) must meet the following criteria:

1. Live in Texas for 12 consecutive months by the application deadline; and
2. Establish and maintain domicile for 12 consecutive months prior to the application deadline, by doing one of the following:
   
   • Be gainfully employed in Texas (Definition)
   • Sole or joint marital ownership of residential real property in Texas by the person seeking to enroll or the dependent's parent, having established and maintained a domicile at the residence
   • Own and operate a business in Texas
   • Be married for one year to a person who has established domicile in Texas

If you file taxes as an independent... You may gain resident status if you establish domicile in the state.

And to your other question, I am a career changer. So I am not considering SMP's at all right now (hopefully). So I have not taken my pre-reqs yet. Rather, I am pursuing the pure career-changer post-baccs, some with linkage. In this case, I have no MCAT to speak of yet.

 

[wysdoc]

Hi there @wysdoc - thank you SO MUCH for the response/help. If this is true, that is great news. I assume you're talking about this portion below. Just to clarify, I am 2+ years out of an OOS college, worked in different states and have filed taxes independently from my parents, none of which have been in Texas.

From what I understand, when it says below that independent taxpayers "may gain resident status if YOU establish domicile in the state", wouldn't that preclude my parents in that case? I would need to own the property or work full-time in Texas for 12 consecutive months prior to the app deadline, myself, right? When it says "you or your parents must meet the following criteria", does that mean for BOTH independent and dependent tax payers? If so, that's incredible news and I would definitely keep my Texas DL and residence! Not sure if I'm misunderstanding this.

Option 2: Residency by Establishing Domicile
To establish domicile, you or your parent(s) must meet the following criteria:

1. Live in Texas for 12 consecutive months by the application deadline; and
2. Establish and maintain domicile for 12 consecutive months prior to the application deadline, by doing one of the following:
   
   • Be gainfully employed in Texas (Definition)
   • Sole or joint marital ownership of residential real property in Texas by the person seeking to enroll or the dependent's parent, having established and maintained a domicile at the residence
   • Own and operate a business in Texas
   • Be married for one year to a person who has established domicile in Texas

If you file taxes as an independent... You may gain resident status if you establish domicile in the state.

And to your other question, I am a career changer. So I am not considering SMP's at all right now (hopefully). Rather, I am pursuing the pure career-changer post-baccs, some with linkage. In this case, I have no MCAT to speak of yet.

Being OOS for the primary purpose of education does not lose you your TX residency.
Living and working OOS for 2 years might, but you have the saving fact that your parents have always lived in TX.
I'm not the official arbiter but TMDSAS makes that determination at the time you apply.
If you moved back to Texas now even to work, you will be a TX resident by NEXT app cycle.
Hurrying is not smart.

 

[twixmoments]

Being OOS for the primary purpose of education does not lose you your TX residency.
Living and working OOS for 2 years might, but you have the saving fact that your parents have always lived in TX.
I'm not the official arbiter but TMDSAS makes that determination at the time you apply.
If you moved beck to Texas now even to work, you will be a TX resident by NEXT app cycle.
Hurrying is not smart.

Gotcha, thank you. I guess the issue is whether my parents having domicile only counts for dependent tax filers or independent tax filers as well.I'll try and reach out to the info email with tmdsas to find out. Perhaps my parents can file me as a dependent next year.

It is true if I moved to Texas today and worked FT for 12 months I could get residency regardless. Unfortunately, I'm signed to a lease..

Thanks again.

 

[wysdoc]

Gotcha, thank you. I guess the issue is whether my parents having domicile only counts for dependent tax filers or independent tax filers as well.I'll try and reach out to the info email with tmdsas to find out. Perhaps my parents can file me as a dependent next year.

It is true if I moved to Texas today and worked FT for 12 months I could get residency regardless. Unfortunately, I'm signed to a lease..

Thanks again.

I'm going to turn you over to TMDSAS for your questions now, good luck! You, the applicant, should contact TMDSAS, not your parents.
You need to be living in TX for 12 months as of Nov1 of your application year to qualify, if your parents domicile doesn't do it.
That would mean you would apply in the 2024-2025 app cycle.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

For context, I am a nontrad, currently working a tech career for about 2 years now and considering joining a post-bacc next year. Grew up my entire life in Texas, went to high school in Texas, and my parents still live and own a home in Texas. I still really like Texas but life/work just brought me elsewhere. However, I went to undergrad outside of Texas, worked in NY for a year, and just moved to California this past January 1st. As of now, within a medical school admissions context, I technically don't have official state residency anywhere lol.

I kept my Texas DL just in case I wanted to prove my residency. However, I am starting to realize that technically having a Texas DL doesn't really influence my state residency.

From TMDSAS:

1. Graduated from a Texas high school or received a GED in Texas; and
2. Lived in Texas for the 36 months immediately before high school graduation; and
3. Lived in Texas continuously for the 12 months immediately preceding the application deadline."

I fit the first two requirements, it is unlikely I will fit the third. Even if I were to move to Texas now, there aren't really any good career-changer post baccs in the state so I will likely have to leave and lose that requirement. The alternative is finish the post-bacc, deliberately delay applying after the post-bacc, pray to find a full-time job in Texas, and move to Texas for year, then apply. My thought is, if I have ties to Texas but it is unlikely that I will be considered a state resident, maybe I should just try to gain some semblance of ties/residency in California, and then apply to both states with ties to California, and ties to Texas?

This is California's requirement:
To establish residence, you must be physically present in California with the intent to make California your permanent home, and you must demonstrate by your actions that you have given up your former residence to establish a residence in California. Once you have established your residence in California, you must reside in California for more than one year (366 days) before you will be eligible to be classified as a resident for tuition purposes.

This year around October, I plan on applying to a wide variety of formal post-bacc programs (Scripps, Goucher, etc.). If I get accepted to one, I plan on extending my lease for one month to hit the 366 days and have utilities/rent payments to prove it, and then will move back with my parents in Texas and work remotely to aggressively save money until the program begins again (technically will still be paying CA taxes the entire time).

Regardless, since I will be leaving right after I "establish residency", I will likely not even qualify as being a CA in-state resident once I apply. Unfortunately, living at home is going to be a requirement to afford these programs. However, it might be worth it to at least have ties to the state and maybe attempt to gain residency by getting a DL? Maybe, just maybe, I can still claim residency for CA? Texas, I frankly have no chance.

There is a possibility that the post-bacc I attend will be in CA, but I'm applying all over the country so I can't really count on being in CA.

I'm just getting confused writing all of this. It looks like most likely, I will have no state residency anywhere when I apply which kind of sucks. I MIGHT be able to squeeze a CA residency by some miracle. Any kind soul out there who can help me navigate this mess? Is it worth revoking my Texas DL for a California DL?

I would love to go to med school at either CA or TX, but if I can't get state residency at either it's kind of fighting an uphill battle.

You can probably forget about Texas and California. Get yourself a tech job in Ohio or Michigan and take premed classes at U of Cincinnati/Cleveland State/Wayne State at night. Michigan and Ohio are swimming in medical school seats including two enormous DO schools.

 

[lnxx]

I'm a nontrad career changer who applied this cycle (and was accepted to a TMDSAS school). I can't speak to Cali residency, but I do have experience with gaining Texas residency for the med school admissions process.

My parents live in TX and I grew up here, however went to high school OOS (boarding school) and college OOS. After college, my first job was OOS. When I decided to start the med school app process I also looked into the Texas residency requirements, as I wasn't considered a resident at that time, but wanted to establish ties due to admission advantages (Texas schools accept 90% IS) and cheap tuition.

I did a DIY post-bacc -- I first took a year of online Houston Community College classes in the evenings (this allowed me to still keep my job for almost 9 months while taking classes). Then I finished up my pre-reqs at UH the next year, and at that point I was considered a TX resident for tuition purposes at UH. One thing that helped me I think was having a Texas voters registration card, and I also had a Texas DL. Getting considered a TX resident at UH was the hardest part in the process. Then, when I applied to med school via TMDSAS honestly all they really asked for was proof that UH considered me in-state for tuition purposes. I was paranoid so I also worked part time and tracked hours of employment/made sure I could access paystubs if necessary to proved that I had worked in Texas for at least 12 months from the application deadline. They did ask a question about if you were gainfully employed for 12-months on the TMSDAS application, but did not ask me to verify anything.

I remember being very anxious/confused about Texas residency throughout the process, so hope this helps! I think if you don't have your heart set on a formal post-bacc, there are plenty of opportunities to do a DIY post-bacc in Texas and gain residency.