Rice/Baylor vs. Princeton

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oshkosh1

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Hey, I know a lot of people think it is a little early to be complicating my life over these things, but anyways, I'm currently enrolled in the Rice/Baylor medical program but got accepted off of princeton's waitlist......i know i want to be a doctor, but I also think the Princeton undergrad experience would be awesome.....here are my pros and cons:

Rice/Baylor:
-guaranteed med
-great scholarship
-150k over all 8 years (im planning on getting texas residency if i stick with this program)
- Texas Medical Center
- somewhat urban (Houston)
Cons:
- Rice isnt as renowned academically, i think it should still be good
- 8 years in Texas (im gona take hits for this one XD)

Princeton:
- great school
-....GREAT SCHOOL
Cons:
-200k undegrad cost (aka 0 scholarship)
- no guaranteed med
- not urban at all

opinions on what I should do?
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Email Princeton and tell them of your great offer in Texas. Than tell them to Pony up a lot of cash or you're dropping them.
 
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200k undergrad........👎. Guaranteed med.....👍.
 
princeton is NOT WORTH 200k in loans and no guaranteed med if you are 100% sure you want medicine. go to rice, especially if you have the option of applying out of the program for med school... 200K in loans + interest + med school loans + interest = epic financial fail for a good chunk of your life.

i was going to say go to princeton until i heard the loan bit. did you not apply for fin aid, not qualify at all (don't believe this because why would you have to take out loans if your parents were super loaded), or are you getting the shaft because you were on the waitlist (fin aid not guaranteed for waitlisters at my ugrad)... i think the latter is the answer because you dont have much bargaining power on the waitlist (because it is huge) and they already would have access to your fin aid data and would know if you could pay full cost or close to it if need be.

PS why is princeton still dipping into the waitlist in july? is this normal? i guess they are having a lower than average yeild this year.
 
redlight said:
princeton is NOT WORTH 200k in loans and no guaranteed med if you are 100% sure you want medicine. go to rice, especially if you have the option of applying out of the program for med school... 200K in loans + interest + med school loans + interest = epic financial fail for a good chunk of your life.

i was going to say go to princeton until i heard the loan bit. did you not apply for fin aid, not qualify at all (don't believe this because why would you have to take out loans if your parents were super loaded), or are you getting the shaft because you were on the waitlist (fin aid not guaranteed for waitlisters at my ugrad)... i think the latter is the answer because you dont have much bargaining power on the waitlist (because it is huge) and they already would have access to your fin aid data and would know if you could pay full cost or close to it if need be.

PS why is princeton still dipping into the waitlist in july? is this normal? i guess they are having a lower than average yeild this year.
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i keep trying to find another angle to evaluate but i keep seeing this:
after spending 150K..

@ princeton: NO DEGREE (assuming graduate in 4 years)... basically a high school grad with 3 years of extra education...

@rice/baylor: BA/BS or maybe even a flashy combined BA/BS + masters AND a
MD..from BCM...

hmm...princeton is making this too easy!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oshkosh1
Cons:
- Rice isnt as renowned academically, i think it should still be good

No one is really going to care where you went to undergrad, especially after med school
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Plus, Rice is a VERY good school and it is fairly well known. It's no Princeton as far as reputation goes, but I think plenty of people know the school for its academic excellence. I think your "cons" for Rice/BCM are pretty weak, while the "cons" for Princeton are very legitimate. My opinion is to go with Rice!
 
Go with Rice/Baylor. A BS/MD program tops an ivy education any day of the week if you're sure you want to be a doc. (if you're not absolutely sure, then obviously an ivy would be a better choice) A top BS/MD program with scholarship is an unstoppable force that should make the ivies beg for mercy and offer you full rides with stipends. Plus Princeton is not worth 200k if you have to pay it yourself.

I have a friend who was in this program and shes going to Yale for med school. Rice in no way is going to hold you back.
 
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I highly recommend going to Rice. You'll have a lot of fun there (e.g., Beer Bike, the college system) and you won't have to worry about the med school application process if you're already guaranteed a spot at Baylor. As far as Rice's reputation, it has a great reputation in Texas and having a Rice degree won't limit you in any way, a guy I graduated with at Rice just graduated from JHU med school. The financial considerations may not seem like a big deal to you now, but they will when you get that loan statement that says you owe a couple hundred thousand dollars that's accumulating interest.
 
Houston isn't urban?? :laugh::laugh::laugh: hmm i guess 4 million people means nothing
 
Bacchus said:
Get your nose out of the clouds, realize the opportunity you have, and go with it. You don't need Princeton.
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QFT!

Baylor is a great school to have an automatic acceptance to. Save yourself the nightmare and stress of going through the medical school admissions process, and $200k while you're at it.
 
All other things being equal, I'd go the Rice/Baylor route just for the cost and decreased stress of not having to apply again in 4 years.

But all things aren't equal, and Baylor is an amazing medical school. You'd be crazy to pass that up. Unless you have shadowing lined up with Dr. House, that is.
 
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I'm at an Ivy right now, applying to medical schools...go with Rice/Baylor. I would give my left nut for an acceptance at Baylor. Here's a little anecdote for ya...

One of my best friends from high school got into SUNY Albany/Albany Med combined program and Princeton. He was a PHENOMENAL student-athlete in high school and knew very well he wanted to go into medicine. He opted for Princeton because of the rep. Where is he now? He graduated in 2008 from Princeton with a BS in Biochemistry and a sh*tty 3.24 GPA. Dejected from 2 application cycles of rejections (applying to around 20 schools each cycle) he now works for a consulting firm in NYC, and hates waking up in the morning. In hindsight, he wishes he had taken the combined program and gotten his MD.

Hope that helps. The Ivies aren't what theyre cracked up to be. I'm busting my a*s this cycle...if you can avoid going through this, I highly recommend doing so.
 
lol he has a legitimate decision to make. you guys think the answer is easy, but its not...in order to get into rice/baylor, you have to be the top of the top of the top. im sure he could easily get into a top 10 med school going the traditional route.

that being said, i would still stick with rice/baylor man. i would understand if this were a lower level program, but this is one of the best. you will have so much fun in your undergrad.

sorry OP for bringing this up =/
 
I couldn't have been happier at Rice - I was deciding b/t Rice and Princeton too (though not Rice/Baylor, just Rice), and decided to go w/ Rice - haven't regretted it for a second. It's a wonderful school. And just check out the crazy MD applicants forums to realize how much pain and suffering you'll be saving yourself by junior year of college! Seriously, you'll love it. Congrats on both the acceptances, and good luck!
 
one thing to keep in mind is that princeton is notorious for having grade deflation..makes it really difficult for premeds
However, i was in a similar situation between northwestern HPME and stanford and I ended up going with stanford, and in fact, of all the kids that I knew that were accepted to HPME and got acceptances to ivies/MIT/stanford, they all turned down HPME.
So really it comes down to how hard you'll be willing to work in undergrad, because no matter what people say, going to a school like princeton is seriously an amazing privilege.
 
oshkosh1 said:
- 8 years in Texas (im gona take hits for this one XD)
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I think it's really important to keep this in mind...
11. Is the Rice/Baylor program a binding commitment?
No, the program is not binding.
Click to expand...
So if you ever get THAT tired of Texas, you can apply to other places, or if you change your mind and want to pursue something else (because you never know what'll happen in then next four years!), you'll be able to do so with MUCH less debt. And if you do continue to pursue medicine, you're guaranteed a spot at an amazing medical school... I think going to Rice is a win/win, but it's your decision.
 
The only reason not to do the Rice/Baylor program is if you can't see yourself spending that much time in Texas, or if you aren't 100% positive you want to do medicine. It's common after HS to focus on only 4 careers: Medicine, law, engineering, and business, so be aware there are many other options out there.

The reputation of Rice is kind of moot. The only reason to go to a prestigious undergrad is to get into a top tier med school. With your program, you're already into a top 20 med school (was sad to see Baylor drop out of the top 10), so your undergrad won't matter. Residency programs wont care a lick where you went to undegrad- they focus on your med school career.
 
I would definitely go with Rice/Baylor. Rice isn't as prestigious as Princeton but it is still one of the top Universities in the country. It is really good in the sciences. Baylor is one of the top med schools and is way cheaper than most of the other top schools. I don't see how you could pass this up.

ami1983 said:
Houston isn't urban?? :laugh::laugh::laugh: hmm i guess 4 million people means nothing
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That's what I was wondering. How is the fourth-largest city in the US only somewhat urban.
 
Most people would kill to be in your shoes. I wish I would have applied for that program.
If you're 100% sure you want to be a doctor, take your GUARANTEED acceptance at an amazing med school (and going to a great undergrad, too) and leave Princeton alone.
It may be Princeton, but what if you don't do that well there after you gave up a spot at Baylor?
Plus, the whole thing is not expensive, considering what you get and how long it's for.
 
baylor is one of the top medical programs in the country. even if you go to princeton, theres no guarantee that you will get into a program even comparable to baylor
 
Do you know how many people would have given there left arm to be guaranteed an MD acceptance coming out of high school? Let alone one at Baylor? Take the BA/MD at Rice/Baylor. Rice is still a very very good academic school.
 
I faced the same issue 4 years back. I got into Rice/Baylor and had to decide between the program and a much more prestigous IVY with $0 in scholarship. I picked Rice Baylor. The reasons include:

1. I knew, 100% for sure, I wanted to go to medical school.
2. Cost.
3. Wasn't convinced I could get into a top 10 med school at that time through undergrad. BCM was top 10 when I matriculated.

After finishing at Rice I realized a few things.
1. Undergrad DOES matter. Princeton is leagues ahead of Rice in prestige. You can probably dig up the same opportunities at Rice if you work hard at it. In fact, this is the truth for any top 40 American institution. But for what it's worth, I still think having a Princeton undergraduate degree gives you a leg up in prestigious scholarships and to a much smaller extent, med school admissions.

2. At Rice, you can still apply out. I ended up doing that. I got into a better med school I fit in with better and won't be attending Baylor. It's up to you.

3. Rice/Baylors have a unique position and prestige at Rice that opens doors. Quite simply, you're a made man. That helps you get into research gigs and other opportunities. Never short sell the tagline "18 year old already into med school". That can be just as impressive as "regular Princeton undergrad".

Take home advice:
I'd go to Princeton if money doesn't matter. I'd go to Princeton if you're planning ongoing into college with rigor and a work ethic. You're going to have what it takes to get into a Baylor-caliber med school but you'll never regret your undergraduate experience. Houston is hot and not a very pleasant city.
 
where you go to undergrad really does not matter when it comes to medicine. people are not going to care where you went to school twenty years from now if you're a doctor (aside from a conversation maybe). Admission committees look at your GPA and they compare undergraduates coming from different universities by the MCAT score. When it comes to business it has been shown that there are equal number of fortune 500 CEOS that come from undergraduate schools that are not that good compared to ivy league schools. I'm really a believer that going to an ivy does little for you, if anything, but thats a different story.

let me answer your question. Im a rice/baylor student currently in my third year. The undergraduate experience at Rice is unrivaled. There are tons of parties (if you care about that), but there is plenty of opportunity to excel academically. The professors are excellent and extremely accessible and anybody that wishes to conduct research will be given a position if they are driven and proactive contacting their professor. To this day, I have been doing biomedical research at BCM for three years and i have found that being rice/baylor has opened up many doors for me.

Houston is an excellent city (fourth largest in the country) with everything that you need.
I find it myopic to worry about where you go to undergrad when it comes to medicine? if youre sure that you want medicine and youre accepted to an excellent school like BCM why does that matter, unless you cannot get over your ego. Though BCM may have fallen off the top ten this past two years, it still manages to deliver excellent and absolutely enviable performace for its students in the USMLE, which is what matters for your residency (#1 in texas, UTMB is second). The top ten drop is already being addressed and will be fixed soon in my opinion now that Dr. Traber has been removed by the board as the president as BCM has already started talks again with methodist and is currently talking to Rice about a possible merger. The medical center is the largest of its kind in the world. Why would you not want to be located in such a biomedical oasis?

It is still extremely difficult to get into BCM. Getting into medical school is hard, very hard. Why would you want to go through that stress? you need not take the mcat in R/b and you only need a 3.1 GPA. My friend got rejected from BCM but got into harvard med, coming from Rice. Just keep in mind that the admissions process is random and NEVER guaranteed. Take r/b have a wonderful undergrad experience, explore other interests that you may not be able to pursue as a stressed out premed and then go to a top tier medschool!
 
Pills Of Soap said:
baylor is one of the top medical programs in the country. even if you go to princeton, theres no guarantee that you will get into a program even comparable to baylor
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exactly.
 
There is no reason as far as I can tell to turn down an acceptance to one of the top 20 med schools in the nation just for the chance to jump through a bunch of pre-med hoops (volunteering, research, grades, etc), bust your butt on studying for the MCAT, iron out a personal statement, apply to 25 schools, fill out all of the secondaries, fly across the country on interviews, deal with the stress of waiting to see if you got in... all for the hope of winding up with an acceptance at a 20 top med school.

College is what you make of it. Princeton sounds really cool, but you can have a great time no matter where you are.
 
It seems going rice/baylor keeps more options open. You can still apply to other schools with the hopes of getting into a higher ranked school (if that's what you care for) or with the hopes off getting a lot of dollars from a school (aka a full ride).

You can also go crazy and try to get into a med school after 3 years of undergrad to skip a year of tuition and semi-******ed classes.

just some ideas for thought
 
I've loved being at Rice. And honestly, from knowing a ton of the Rice/Baylor people, they really liked not having to worry about med-school applying or whatever.
 
OP is polling amongst a highly concentrated group of doctors-wannabes so the bias should be expected. The application process can be frustrating and stressful even for those over-achievers here on SDN. So when the normal SDNer's saw you even dare to consider giving up that Baylor spot, they felt agitated. So take their words with a grain of salt. I doubt that your poll at collegeconfidential would be as overwhelmingly one-sided as this thread.
Most people here have gone through some serious soul-searching and fact-finding before taking the plunge. They assumed that you have done the same. If at seventeen you are saying you're 100% absolutely positively certain that you wanted to be a doctor, there is a good chance that you haven't totally comprehend what it really means. Like all professions, medicine has its darker sides which are often ignored by younger people. Reality may hit you sooner or later but it will hit you for sure. By then you may be in this too deep and may regret not seeing the alternatives especially for giving up an offer from a top school to see what the fuss is all about.
I am merely pointing out the obvious bias shown on this board and offer no opinion. In the end, it's a decision you must make between you and your folks since I'd imagine they would have to write the check either way. I doubt that Princeton would grace you much time to make that decision so chances are you've got your mind made up already. Good luck either way. My only advice is after you choose, stick to your confirmation bias and never second guess this decision.
 
There are no advantages to Princeton over Rice. The only pros you put for Princeton is the name, the prestige. Rice has many more pros and it is still highly ranked academically.
 
Rice/Baylor hands down. The point of going to an extremely competitive school like Princeton for your undergrad is so that you have the name "Princeton" when you apply to med school. You don't have to deal with that--you're already guaranteed a spot at Baylor, which is like, one of the top 5 med schools in the country! It's a no-brainer. And FYI Rice is definitely a good school on its own. I can think of at least 3 world-renown engineering professors at my school who came out of Rice.
 
rdr44bb said:
OP is polling amongst a highly concentrated group of doctors-wannabes so the bias should be expected. The application process can be frustrating and stressful even for those over-achievers here on SDN. So when the normal SDNer's saw you even dare to consider giving up that Baylor spot, they felt agitated. So take their words with a grain of salt. I doubt that your poll at collegeconfidential would be as overwhelmingly one-sided as this thread.
Most people here have gone through some serious soul-searching and fact-finding before taking the plunge. They assumed that you have done the same. If at seventeen you are saying you're 100% absolutely positively certain that you wanted to be a doctor, there is a good chance that you haven't totally comprehend what it really means. Like all professions, medicine has its darker sides which are often ignored by younger people. Reality may hit you sooner or later but it will hit you for sure. By then you may be in this too deep and may regret not seeing the alternatives especially for giving up an offer from a top school to see what the fuss is all about.
I am merely pointing out the obvious bias shown on this board and offer no opinion. In the end, it's a decision you must make between you and your folks since I'd imagine they would have to write the check either way. I doubt that Princeton would grace you much time to make that decision so chances are you've got your mind made up already. Good luck either way. My only advice is after you choose, stick to your confirmation bias and never second guess this decision.
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👍
This is the exact reason why I'm wary of BS/MD programs. I'm a third year and still have doubts. I've met physicians still with doubts, so saying you're 100% committed to medicine my be untruthful with oneself.
 
Though you should go where your most comfortable.....Rice is already what...top 15 , 20??

If it was Baylor Vs. Princeton (baylor is still good), i can understand why you would be a bit more concerned. But i dont think students in Princeton have much more of an advantage educationally, opportunity-wise over those in Rice.
 
SnarkyMD said:
👍
This is the exact reason why I'm wary of BS/MD programs. I'm a third year and still have doubts. I've met physicians still with doubts, so saying you're 100% committed to medicine my be untruthful with oneself.
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The thing is, it's hard to ever get to a point where you can be 100% confident in your career choice. A lucky few can be absolutely content for their entire lives, but I think for the vast majority there are always going to be days when they wake up and wonder, "Do I really want to put myself through this for the rest of my life?" At some point you've just got to close your eyes and jump in, and hope that it was the right choice.

Certainly 17-18 is very young to make that kind of call, but when you've got what you think you want in your hand, I think you have to take it and run. Certainly being at Rice you'll still have all kinds of options to pursue any kind of degree and eventual profession that you like. Even if he winds up not being a doctor, is the Princeton name really worth $200k?

All in all, the Rice/Baylor plan is MUCH better if he winds up wanting to be a doctor, and only SLIGHTLY worse if he decides to do something else (and maybe not worse at all depending on how you value money).
 
Here's my two cents...

I personally think no matter where you end up, make sure you make the most of undergrad, because it really should be a period of personal growth. Pre-med curriculum is going to be difficult no matter where you go, so in the end, it's what you personally get out of your four years. In general, I tend to believe in making the most out of my education (undergrad and med), not just going through the motions to become a doctor. So, if you're totally sure about medicine and going straight through undergrad to med school, go for Rice/Baylor. Alternatively, if you don't really have a preference and just wanna be a doctor, go for Rice/Baylor. Just be sure you really feel that Rice AND Baylor are good fits for you, since that's 8 years of your life.

Have you really looked into the fin aid package at Princeton? I know for a fact, Princeton is very generous with fin aid and has a "no loan" policy (loans are replaced with grant money, equivalent of scholarship). It's true that there is a chance that you'll get a lower than average gpa if you go to Princeton because of it's grade deflation policy, but at the same time "Princeton" holds weight with many adcoms and adcoms are aware of Princeton's grade deflation policy (and will weigh your gpa accordingly). Finally, Princeton has a good record of getting pre-meds into med school (I think 90 something percent with gpa's of B+ or higher range) and has a pretty good pre-med office. So, if you're weary of not getting into med school if you decide to follow an uncertain path, don't be. I think either way, you will still go to med school. (As for the urban environment, Princeton is an hour away from nyc and philly and has a train station on campus). I don't really know how you're comparing schools but don't go to Princeton just cuz it's an Ivy and has a lot of prestige.

With all that said, my advice to you is the following: 1) choose an undergrad that is a good match (ec's, potential major/minor, opportunities, support services, campus environment, etc.) for you personally and 2) if Rice is really a good match for you, just make sure Baylor is as well. Ask people who did the Rice/Baylor program about it. Also ask Princeton alumni about Princeton. They would be able to give you more specific and accurate info as well as their own perspectives. Good luck!
 
Wow intense input (especially the left nut XD)...so just to clear things up, fin aid at princeton basically shafted me since my mom (single parent) makes just above the cut off and is having a really tough time right now paying all our bills (I hate CA's expensiveness)...Rice took pity still and basically gave close to full tuition......and yeah I think the whole notion of "are you 100% sure that in 10 years you won't wake up and want to shoot yourself for being a physician" arguement is definitely valid because it would be pretty naive to claim that this is EXACTLY what i want to do...still, as of now, im doing a research internship at a cancer institute and it has gotten me to realize that getting an MD can open so many doors...such as for hardcore bio/molecular research, clinical research, public practice, private practice, biotech, or even healthcare management type stuff...so what im thinking is that although it is definitely a gamble to choose my future profession while I'm so young, based on my interests up to this point (which have been very strongly weighted toward medical), the diversity of options even within the medical field, and how feasible (financially and mentally) Rice/Baylor makes it, it would be a great choice. My only issue at this point is what I'd miss out on at Princeton, it's probably not worth 200k right?
 
you'd be missing out on eating clubs and going to nyc or philly to escape the suburbs, or so i hear 😛
 
The only justifiable reason to go to Princeton would be if you were Texas raised and had no exposure outside of the state. But you do, so bypass the enormous debt and entitlement, go get an excellent education in Texas, and don't worry about medical school for another couple of years. College is going to be fantastic and its going to much better without having to worry about excessive loans.
 
if you have a sliver of a doubt about medicine, go to princeton -- princeton will give a large edge in other industries vs. rice (particularly finance, but also law and perhaps basic science grad schools). if you are 100% sure on medicine, its just not worth the extra 200K -- the princeton name doesn't help enough in med school admissions to justify the huge debt you'll have.

good luck! you're in an enviable position -- go with your heart and let us know what you decide!
 
oshkosh1 said:
My only issue at this point is what I'd miss out on at Princeton, it's probably not worth 200k right?
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I can almost assure its not worth it. I went to Rice. It's a great place with lots of really smart people, really smart professors, small classes. Obviously I haven't gone to both Rice and Princeton, but I know enough people who've gone to enough schools, and I think you might actually miss on out things by choosing Princeton over Rice.
 
oshkosh1 said:
Wow intense input (especially the left nut XD)...so just to clear things up, fin aid at princeton basically shafted me since my mom (single parent) makes just above the cut off and is having a really tough time right now paying all our bills (I hate CA's expensiveness)...Rice took pity still and basically gave close to full tuition......and yeah I think the whole notion of "are you 100% sure that in 10 years you won't wake up and want to shoot yourself for being a physician" arguement is definitely valid because it would be pretty naive to claim that this is EXACTLY what i want to do...still, as of now, im doing a research internship at a cancer institute and it has gotten me to realize that getting an MD can open so many doors...such as for hardcore bio/molecular research, clinical research, public practice, private practice, biotech, or even healthcare management type stuff...so what im thinking is that although it is definitely a gamble to choose my future profession while I'm so young, based on my interests up to this point (which have been very strongly weighted toward medical), the diversity of options even within the medical field, and how feasible (financially and mentally) Rice/Baylor makes it, it would be a great choice. My only issue at this point is what I'd miss out on at Princeton, it's probably not worth 200k right?
Click to expand...

The eating clubs point is very correct. the environment at rice does not really foster one where people can divide themselves (unlike the eating clubs who are selective in their choosing). you are assigned a residential college at Rice at random. Though there are people at rice that are very rich, ive found that the majority of people are down to earth and i partly attribute that to the environment Rice fosters. I honestly would feel quite uncomfortable in an eating club, though i haven't personally experienced them. the 200k is not worth it for the things you would be missing out on.

I agree with the previous poster. I cannot name one institution that has all the things Rice has when it comes to the whole undergraduate experience. Beer bike is awesome. Two pubs on campus. Wet campus. Nod. Baker 13. Jacks. NOD. Beer debates? so many things.

If youre looking for an arduous curriculum, Rice will offer the same academic difficulty that you will get at princeton. If youre looking for competitive premeds, You may find a few of those here too. You dont have go there to experience those things. There are ridiculously smart people at Rice. I know a few people that chose Rice over an ivy league school.

Especially if you dont have 200K burning in your pocket to spend them, it just doesnt make any sense.
 
Debt is the biggest issue. 200k after princeton + med school debt after that, which is commonly more! 4-500K in debt, just because you wanted the undergrad experience and the princeton undergrad education? Take the guaranteed med school route, 150k debt (which is on the low side!!) and run!!

my 2 cents

GL, you have a bright future 👍
 
Stay in Rice/Baylor. It's an amazing program and Rice is underrated. Princeton has lots of grade deflation. Not worth it for the name IMO.
 
Just REJECTED that Princeton invite (felt kinda good actually XD)....thanks for all the input....im R/B.
 
Good for you! BCM is phenomenal and you'll have a great time in R/B.
 
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