Ridiculous Tuition

[Psai]

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When people make excess money, they are stealing it from others that need it more.

Come at me bro.

What does excess money mean? How is someone stealing money from another person who entered into a contract of their own free will, agreeing to pay a certain amount of money for a good/service? And how do you determine need?

 

[StudyLater]

What does excess money mean? How is someone stealing money from another person who entered into a contract of their own free will, agreeing to pay a certain amount of money for a good/service? And how do you determine need?

Greater than that which is necessary to offset costs of the business and provide an income that will allow the income recipient to subsist.

They steal because they take more than they need for a service.

Needs are those things required for a human being to stay alive -- food, water, shelter, sufficient clothing.

 

[writing]

Greater than that which is necessary to offset costs of the business and provide an income that will allow the income recipient to subsist.

They steal because they take more than they need for a service.

Needs are those things required for a human being to stay alive -- food, water, shelter, sufficient clothing.

No no no. By your logic, once physicians have paid student loans they should only make 40-50k/year.

Have you heard of supply and demand?
People charge what consumers are willing to pay.
If consumers do not pay it, producers will change the price or move into a different business venture.

College now costs, $40k/year because that is what consumers are willing to pay. Society has drank the koolaid and millions of kids are willing to go to college at that price. If more people went to CC and transferred, tuition would start to drop.

 

[StudyLater]

No no no. By your logic, once physicians have paid student loans they should only make 40-50k/year.

Yes. By that logic. Not my logic, really. I didn't come up with the argument.

Have you heard of supply and demand?

Yes.

People charge what consumers are willing to pay.

Which is wasteful of the consumer's resources, which could be better allocated to those that need it (there's that word again).

If consumers do not pay it, producers will change the price or move into a different business venture.

Yes. The consumer is directly complicit with the supplier in stealing from those that are in need.

College now costs, $40k/year because that is what consumers are willing to pay. Society has drank the koolaid and millions of kids are willing to go to college at that price. If more people went to CC and transferred, tuition would start to drop.

A lot of those kids don't actually work for the money they spend on their education. Those spending that much on education are funding thieves.

Professional schools and employers don't really like CC's, and therefore are another complicit party. If they ever changed their minds, there would be such a shift.

 

[writing]

Which is wasteful of the consumer's resources, which could be better allocated to those that need it (there's that word again).

Consumers are wasteful of their own resources. Apple computers are $1000+. If consumers choose not to buy Apple products at $1000, Apple would have to decrease it's price or shut down. Offering another example, there is Beats headphones. Beats are mediocre headphones, fairly expensive for their quality. Yet they were branded well and consumers bought them in droves.

Consumers are not educated. They are not 100% rational agents. Producers will continue to charge what consumers are willing to pay. There is also the fact that price affects perception. Would you trust a $5 oil change?

Professional schools and employers don't really like CC's, and therefore are another complicit party. If they ever changed their minds, there would be such a shift.

If 2 out of ever 5 applicant started out at CC, employers would have to reevaluate their views on CC. If 40% of graduating high school students, went straight to community college, took math and science classes there, and then transferred to University. The reputation of CC would change.

 

[Psai]

Greater than that which is necessary to offset costs of the business and provide an income that will allow the income recipient to subsist.

They steal because they take more than they need for a service.

Needs are those things required for a human being to stay alive -- food, water, shelter, sufficient clothing.

But you have an electrical device and are typing on it. You don't need it to subsist. Who did you steal this excess income from to support this extravagant purchase along with the requisite internet access? It is not food, water, clothing. Checkmate.

 

[RedMustang2011]

hows this for my album cover?

http://ewpic.com/?ref=L2MdDtQLm

 

[ciruji]

..

 

[StudyLater]

But you have an electrical device and are typing on it. You don't need it to subsist. Who did you steal this excess income from to support this extravagant purchase along with the requisite internet access? It is not food, water, clothing. Checkmate.

I use it to buy cheaper Chinese-made clothing off Amazon. The savings have far offset the cost at this point.

But anyway stop stealing. Other people are people too. #alllivesmatter

 

[StudyLater]

Consumers are wasteful of their own resources.

Then perhaps their resources could be reallocated to one who won't be so wasteful.

Consumers are not educated. They are not 100% rational agents. Producers will continue to charge what consumers are willing to pay.

Yes.

There is also the fact that price affects perception. Would you trust a $5 oil change?

Perception is unimportant when the consumer is uneducated and irrational, as you've said. Their perceptions aren't to be trusted, then.

If 2 out of ever 5 applicant started out at CC, employers would have to reevaluate their views on CC. If 40% of graduating high school students, went straight to community college, took math and science classes there, and then transferred to University. The reputation of CC would change.

Maybe, maybe not. The quality of education may still be considered inferior to what is considered acceptable. Either that or employers would simply add on more responsibilities to their educated workers and pay them more, with a corresponding decrease in wages for CC labor.

 

[Promethean]

Hey Guys,

So I'm taking an online psychology class partnered through a local state school. The class costs $200/credit (3 credit class), has a $150 nebulous "Distance Learning Fee", and requires you to buy a $90 "homework assignment access code" through a third party. This class has 400 students. That means that they are getting 400*
(200*3+150+90)=$336,000 for teaching this class. The class consist of the following: prerecorded lectures from awhile ago, 3 online multiple choice tests. That is it.

There is no interaction with the professor at all, just watching obnoxious lectures online and taking multiple choice automatically graded tests.

How the hell can this be legal? They are going to make a third of a MILLION DOLLARS! That's ridiculous!! What do you guys think? Should there be discounts on online classes? Are we students being big-time ripped off?

Thanks peeps.

Wait... the access code goes to a third party, so deduct that from your calculation. $200/credit is pretty cheap, actually. That is not much more than community college pricing. The "nebulous" Distance Learning Fee goes to offset the cost of maintaining the servers, including paying the salaries of the people who do that job. Overhead is a real thing, and it doesn't go away just because the class is online instead of in a brick and mortar building.

There are free resources on line to learn almost anything you could want to know, if you want to invest the time in sourcing them.
There are other online options for earning credits. Straighterline.com has a number of courses that you might be interested in, just as an example. I'm sure there are plenty more.

I personally completed 90 credits in 6 months, earning a Bachelors in Business Admin (HR Management) for a mere $3000. (I'd been admitted to medical school and needed the cheapest, fastest degree possible, since it would have taken me too long and cost WAY too much to complete the undergrad degree that I'd started a decade before. The point of that is that if you want cheaper options, they are out there. But you are still paying about 1/3 what that course would cost (even online) at the uni where I chose NOT to finish my degree.

 

[StudyLater]

I personally completed 90 credits in 6 months, earning a Bachelors in Business Admin (HR Management) for a mere $3000. (I'd been admitted to medical school and needed the cheapest, fastest degree possible, since it would have taken me too long and cost WAY too much to complete the undergrad degree that I'd started a decade before. The point of that is that if you want cheaper options, they are out there. But you are still paying about 1/3 what that course would cost (even online) at the uni where I chose NOT to finish my degree.

Holy **** why am I wasting my time pursuing an actual university degree.

 

[Promethean]

I don't know... why are you?

The caveat to how I did that... I had a lot of business admin knowledge to begin with, so I didn't have to actually study very much. Just write the papers, do the projects, and take the exams. Part of the program required passing national standardized competency exams in project management and human resources management to receive professional level certification in those subject areas, so it isn't like I didn't learn anything.

Western Governors University allows you to complete as many credits per term as you can. The tuition is the same for a 6 month term whether you finish 12 credits or 90. If you can keep up with the work, you can keep piling it on. I selected a program where I could power through the assessments and demonstrate competence with haste. If I didn't get done in time, I would lose my seat in med school, so it was powerful motivation. Also, I didn't want to pay another $3k for another 6 months just to finish up a handful of credits, so I worked like a fiend.

 

[writing]

Then perhaps their resources could be reallocated to one who won't be so wasteful.

How would resource reallocation work?? Take money from people. How do you define wasteful? Beats are horrible headphones for the price, but maybe that consumer really loves the brand. How would you justify and rationally inact certain measures?

Everything nonessential can be considered wasteful. A father spending $300 to take his kid to baseball game is wasteful. Should his wages be garnished?

Maybe, maybe not. The quality of education may still be considered inferior to what is considered acceptable. Either that or employers would simply add on more responsibilities to their educated workers and pay them more, with a corresponding decrease in wages for CC labor.

As it stands, CC goers are not at a large disadvantage. I can only speak for engineering. Once you transfer to university, employers only care about where you got your BS from and your experience.

 

[writing]

I don't know... why are you?

The caveat to how I did that... I had a lot of business admin knowledge to begin with, so I didn't have to actually study very much. Just write the papers, do the projects, and take the exams. Part of the program required passing national standardized competency exams in project management and human resources management to receive professional level certification in those subject areas, so it isn't like I didn't learn anything.

Western Governors University allows you to complete as many credits per term as you can. The tuition is the same for a 6 month term whether you finish 12 credits or 90. If you can keep up with the work, you can keep piling it on. I selected a program where I could power through the assessments and demonstrate competence with haste. If I didn't get done in time, I would lose my seat in med school, so it was powerful motivation. Also, I didn't want to pay another $3k for another 6 months just to finish up a handful of credits, so I worked like a fiend.

Wait, you got your bachelors online? Did you already have experience in university? What did you do for LoRs, research, or extracurriculars? I'm very interested. Please describe your experiences.

 

[StudyLater]

How would resource reallocation work?? Take money from people. How do you define wasteful? Beats are horrible headphones for the price, but maybe that consumer really loves the brand. How would you justify and rationally inact certain measures?

The consumer's love of a clear, crisp sound or starving families.

Justification is easy. People die for the sake of others' pleasure. It'd be easy to convince people a change needs to be had. Use the pissed off lower and lower-middle classes (i.e. the majority of people) as your support backbone and sway their votes in favor of reallocating the money they didn't earn back to them. Essentially treat the poor as one big fat interest group. They will pay you in votes and sociocultural manipulation of societal values, which they will cement by teaching to the younger generations that will grow up to give you more votes.

Everything nonessential can be considered wasteful. A father spending $300 to take his kid to baseball game is wasteful. Should his wages be garnished?

There'd be no need to if the MLB stopped profiting off of a child's sense of wonder and excitement.

As it stands, CC goers are not at a large disadvantage. I can only speak for engineering. Once you transfer to university, employers only care about where you got your BS from and your experience.

That's actually pretty cool.

 

[Psai]

I use it to buy cheaper Chinese-made clothing off Amazon. The savings have far offset the cost at this point.

But anyway stop stealing. Other people are people too. #alllivesmatter

You are spending extra money on amazon? Who did you steal that money from? Stop stealing

 

[StudyLater]

You are spending extra money on amazon? Who did you steal that money from? Stop stealing

Funds that would have otherwise been used for clothes.

Dude don't get mad just because people are dying. You should be sensitive to these issues as a future practitioner.

 

[Promethean]

Wait, you got your bachelors online? Did you already have experience in university? What did you do for LoRs, research, or extracurriculars? I'm very interested. Please describe your experiences.

Understand... I'm very nontrad. Here is the short version of the story. I started college the first time in the 90s. Bad things happened, and I ended up homeless. My grades tanked and I went to work at Starbucks and several other subsistence level jobs for a while.

I finally found a way to go back to school. I sold my soul to a hospital system that traded me tuition to their proprietary nursing school in exchange for the promise to work for them for 4 years once I got an RN. So, I did that. I kept working there while I ran a business or two, earned a couple of specialty certifications, and generally settled into working as an OR nurse for a few years. I didn't have a degree, just an RN diploma. My nursing school gpa was like a 3.8, much better than the 1.37 that I'd gotten during my first attempt at going to college. But, almost none of those credits would count on a medical school application, since the school I attended is accredited in a different way than most degree granting institutions.

Then, in October 2012, I got really, seethingly pissed off at a doctor who was terrible to someone that I loved. She was so bad at her job that it shook me out of my complacency. I realized the only way to correct the balance of the universe was to do her job better than her. After looking around at my options, I enrolled in community college to get my pre-reqs out of the way. I realized that I could turn that into an Associates degree while I was at it, for very little money, by taking a bunch of CLEP exams. I took about 45 credits worth of them, and the college let me use 30 of those credits toward the degree. So, I finished all my pre-reqs, and a 60-ish credit AS in Liberal Arts in under a year.

My letters of recommendation came from surgeons and anesthesiologists with whom I'd worked as an OR nurse, from science professors from the community college, and one from my dear old anatomy professor from nursing school. Between nursing school and my college adventures, I had enough credits to apply and be interviewed. I was offered an acceptance on the condition that I complete a Bachelors degree prior to June/July. So, I enrolled at WGU, which accepted enough of my prior credits in transfer that I needed 90 more in order to finish the Business Admin program. I'd picked it because it had the most objective assessments (exams.) I'm very fortunate to be extremely good at taking standardized exams, or at least I used to be.

And now, not quite 3 years from the time I decided that I was going to go to medical school, I'm an MS-1 at my first choice school. If I'd explained my plan in advance to SDN, I'm sure a lot of people would have told me that it wasn't going to work. It was pretty unconventional, but that proves that you don't have to come off the pre-med assembly line looking exactly like the previous 100 applicants in order to find a seat.

 

[StudyLater]

Understand... I'm very nontrad. Here is the short version of the story. I started college the first time in the 90s. Bad things happened, and I ended up homeless. My grades tanked and I went to work at Starbucks and several other subsistence level jobs for a while.

I finally found a way to go back to school. I sold my soul to a hospital system that traded me tuition to their proprietary nursing school in exchange for the promise to work for them for 4 years once I got an RN. So, I did that. I kept working there while I ran a business or two, earned a couple of specialty certifications, and generally settled into working as an OR nurse for a few years. I didn't have a degree, just an RN diploma. My nursing school gpa was like a 3.8, much better than the 1.37 that I'd gotten during my first attempt at going to college. But, almost none of those credits would count on a medical school application, since the school I attended is accredited in a different way than most degree granting institutions.

Then, in October 2012, I got really, seethingly pissed off at a doctor who was terrible to someone that I loved. She was so bad at her job that it shook me out of my complacency. I realized the only way to correct the balance of the universe was to do her job better than her. After looking around at my options, I enrolled in community college to get my pre-reqs out of the way. I realized that I could turn that into an Associates degree while I was at it, for very little money, by taking a bunch of CLEP exams. I took about 45 credits worth of them, and the college let me use 30 of those credits toward the degree. So, I finished all my pre-reqs, and a 60-ish credit AS in Liberal Arts in under a year.

My letters of recommendation came from surgeons and anesthesiologists with whom I'd worked as an OR nurse, from science professors from the community college, and one from my dear old anatomy professor from nursing school. Between nursing school and my college adventures, I had enough credits to apply and be interviewed. I was offered an acceptance on the condition that I complete a Bachelors degree prior to June/July. So, I enrolled at WGU, which accepted enough of my prior credits in transfer that I needed 90 more in order to finish the Business Admin program. I'd picked it because it had the most objective assessments (exams.) I'm very fortunate to be extremely good at taking standardized exams, or at least I used to be.

And now, not quite 3 years from the time I decided that I was going to go to medical school, I'm an MS-1 at my first choice school. If I'd explained my plan in advance to SDN, I'm sure a lot of people would have told me that it wasn't going to work. It was pretty unconventional, but that proves that you don't have to come off the pre-med assembly line looking exactly like the previous 100 applicants in order to find a seat.

This is awesome. Your life should be a movie.

 

[Promethean]

This is awesome. Your life should be a movie.

Nah. The story arc is all wrong. The early 2000s would get it an NC-17 rating, then after 2013 it would be like watching someone performing accounting while paint dried in the background.

Right now my room looks like a library exploded. There are text books open on all sides of the bed, like sharks circling my life raft, probably lured by the scent of fresh Netter's Anatomy flashcards bleeding from the pile on the nightstand. And my idea of a pleasant study break is popping onto SDN.

No, no one wants to see this film.

 

[StudyLater]

Nah. The story arc is all wrong. The early 2000s would get it an NC-17 rating, then after 2013 it would be like watching someone performing accounting while paint dried in the background.

Right now my room looks like a library exploded. There are text books open on all sides of the bed, like sharks circling my life raft, probably lured by the scent of fresh Netter's Anatomy flashcards bleeding from the pile on the nightstand. And my idea of a pleasant study break is popping onto SDN.

No, no one wants to see this film.

Sounds like we've got some things in common 😉

 

[Dr. Death]

You know @StudyLater there are countries that would love you to come be a physician in their system. You don't even have to get paid. The government will pay you in clothes, housing and food for your services. Everyone has enough to eat, clothes to wear, equal access to healthcare. Tempting isn't it?

 

[RedMustang2011]

as long as i'll be able to buy a lamborghini at 30 and a million dollar house by 40, im happy. **** these profit-whoring universities, as long as i get into med school. you agree @LizzyM?

 

[StudyLater]

You know @StudyLater there are countries that would love you to come be a physician in their system. You don't even have to get paid. The government will pay you in clothes, housing and food for your services. Everyone has enough to eat, clothes to wear, equal access to healthcare. Tempting isn't it?

Quite, if I wasn't taking on the massive opportunity cost of foregoing a physician salary that will otherwise be distributed to another greedy grad.

That should be the screen name of the next troll making a money thread.

 

[writing]

Quite, if I wasn't taking on the massive opportunity cost of foregoing a physician salary that will otherwise be distributed to another greedy grad.

That should be the screen name of the next troll making a money thread.

Describe how you think economies should function. I'm curious.

 

[StudyLater]

Describe how you think economies should function. I'm curious.

 

[Dr. Death]

Ok can you share 350$ with me? I need clothes and gas and food and stuff.

 

[StudyLater]

Ok can you share 350$ with me? I need clothes and gas and food and stuff.

I would if you join my commune and harvest corn 16hrs/day for the next 10yrs.

 

[writing]

So what communism?? And what if people who do not work or produce very little value?? Do you think it's fair for the amateur rapper selling cds on the street to benefit from the work of goes through 16 years of education to become a neurosurgeon?

 

[StudyLater]

So what communism?? And what if people who do not work or produce very little value?? Do you think it's fair for the amateur rapper selling cds on the street to benefit from the work of goes through 16 years of education to become a neurosurgeon?

I didn't exactly understand this. Are you saying the rapper gets shot in the head and then is saved by the neurosurgeon?

The rapper would never be shot though if we all loved each other and shared our lunchables so we could make a quadruple decker super sandwich out of each other's different lunch meats -- metaphorically speaking (but also literally....yum).

 

[writing]

I didn't exactly understand this. Are you saying the rapper gets shot in the head and then is saved by the neurosurgeon?

The rapper would never be shot though if we all loved each other and shared our lunchables so we could make a quadruple decker super sandwich out of each other's different lunch meats -- metaphorically speaking (but also literally....yum).

Rapper: sits on the street selling CDs
Neurosurgeon: 16 years of education, takes on massive loans, spends his 20s and 30s in an operating room, usually works 80 hour weeks.

Is it fair for some of the neurosurgeon's income to go towards the rapper sitting on the street?

 

[StudyLater]

Rapper: sits on the street selling CDs
Neurosurgeon: 16 years of education, takes on massive loans, spends his 20s and 30s in an operating room, usually works 80 hour weeks.

Is it fair for some of the neurosurgeon's income to go towards the rapper sitting on the street?

Then have the rapper do something useful in proper proportion to the reallocated funds he receives.

 

[Dr. Death]

If only the government would micromanage every person's life. Alas, we can't all live in Venezuela

 

[writing]

Then have the rapper do something useful in proper proportion to the reallocated funds he receives.

Define useful? How much is enough? Let's he goes to college, parties a bit, studies a bit, and then gets an office job. Is that enough to receive some of the surgeon's income? The neurosurgeon gave up 16 years of his life. Why does the rapper deserve some of that surgeon's salary?

Look past the surgeon and look at CEOs. Some of these people: max out their credit cards, sell their houses, and take every loan possible, because they believe in their business. Why should the rapper get some of their wages? Or let's look at the coal miner or oil hand. His work is back breaking and he's damaging his band. Why should a cashier receive some of that salary?

Do you think people will still take massive risks that lead to innovation, when they realize that their salary is going towards people who don't work hard?

 

[StudyLater]

If only the government would micromanage every person's life. Alas, we can't all live in Venezuela

Or we could just help each other out. No government required.

 

[writing]

Or we could just help each other out. No government required.

This is as silly as saying: "maybe cells could stop mutating and there'd be no more cancer"
Humans are not homogeneous. There are a wide variety of conflicting motivations and attitudes among humans. How could such a world ever exist (or be instituted)?

 

[StudyLater]

Define useful? How much is enough? Let's he goes to college, parties a bit, studies a bit, and then gets an office job. Is that enough to receive some of the surgeon's income? The neurosurgeon gave up 16 years of his life. Why does the rapper deserve some of that surgeon's salary?

Look past the surgeon and look at CEOs. Some of these people: max out their credit cards, sell their houses, and take every loan possible, because they believe in their business. Why should the rapper get some of their wages? Or let's look at the coal miner or oil hand. His work is back breaking and he's damaging his band. Why should a cashier receive some of that salary?

Because all people deserve to have a life, even if they are useless to the society that provides them with that life. That's the obvious assumption here.

Do you think people will still take massive risks that lead to innovation, when they realize that their salary is going towards people who don't work hard?

People don't exclusively take risks to increase their salary. There can be many other means. Simple competition, social status, enhancing self-esteem, personal realization of long-held goals, etc.

 

[StudyLater]

This is as silly as saying: "maybe cells could stop mutating and there'd be no more cancer"
Humans are not homogeneous. There are a wide variety of conflicting motivations and attitudes among humans. How could such a world ever exist (or be instituted)?

Teach each other to change.

 

[Doudline]

Do you think people will still take massive risks that lead to innovation, when they realize that their salary is going towards people who don't work hard?

If I'm pitching you a business proposal that could earn you 20 billion bucks this year, would taxes stop you? "No thanks Jerry, 20 billions do not interest me because the government is going to take 30% anyway! I'd rather stay at home and dwell on the evils of communism than get 14 billion bucks straight into my pockets."

Like seriously?

(Invalidated further by the fact that the developed world has seen more progress/innovation in the last century than in all the rest of human existence combined probably, despite a wide implementation of taxes.)

 

[Spinach Dip]

What is this thread even about?

 

[writing]

If I'm pitching you a business proposal that could earn you 20 billion bucks this year, would taxes stop you? "No thanks Jerry, 20 billions do not interest me because the government is going to take 30% anyway! I'd rather stay at home and dwell on the evils of communism than get 14 billion bucks straight into my pockets."

Read my words again. That 20 billion dollar proposal costs 10 billion dollars and if we lose we're going to be on the streets begging for money.

 

[StudyLater]

What is this thread even about?

Idk I started to pretend like I support communism and @writing is eating it up.

 

[Doudline]

Read my words again. That 20 billion dollar proposal costs 10 billion dollars and if we lose we're going to be on the streets begging for money.

Fine, 50% (because that makes a difference).

And you are utterly deluded if you believe that any big CEO/investor ends up on the street for losing a big deal or even their company. If you'd bothered to read on the subject, e.g. concerning the 2007-2008 crisis, you'd know that most big wigs got out with dozens or hundreds of millions in bonuses and compensation packages, despite leading almost directly their respective company to ruin.

 

[StudyLater]

Fine, 50% (because that makes a difference).

And you are utterly deluded if you believe that any big CEO/investor ends up on the street for losing a big deal or even their company. If you'd bothered to read on the subject, e.g. concerning the 2007-2008 crisis, you'd know that most big wigs got out with dozens or hundreds of millions in bonuses and compensation packages, despite leading almost directly their respective company to ruin.

This is management 101. Of course they do this.

First rule in business: me first.
Second rule in business: that's mine.
Third rule in business: get your own.
Fourth rule in business: stop whining just cuz I took all your stuff with legal impunity.

 

[RedMustang2011]

ok guys...wow...ADHD much?

/THREAD

 

[WedgeDawg]

ok guys...wow...ADHD much?

/THREAD

Are you the same guy who ran someone over in their car while going 140 mph and thought that public school made you a URM?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-should-i-play-this.1159372/page-3#post-16879880

 

[RedMustang2011]

Are you the same guy who ran someone over in their car while going 140 mph and thought that public school made you a URM?

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-should-i-play-this.1159372/page-3#post-16879880

what car did that guy have? was it a 2011RedMustang?

 

[WedgeDawg]

what car did that guy have? was it a 2011RedMustang?

Uh ya

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/traffic-ticket.1159506/