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dudestheman90 said:
Its really the way the economy is headed. Physicians are going to be making squat under the affordable healthcare act. Were moving towards greece and spain. and yes my home country egypt. Socialism doesnt work, all these countries are on fire. Socialistic economy and socialized healthcare, america is in transition, thus the pplms we are seeing. But docs in europe really dont make much, 60-80k. When all is said and done in 4 years, docs here wont be making much either, yet the costs of a medical education are going up.
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Six figures will still be what Physicians are paid. The pay of docs makes up only 10% of healthcare cost so I don't foresee docs making squat less yes but six figures isn't squat.....
 
Makati2008 said:
Six figures will still be what Physicians are paid. The pay of docs makes up only 10% of healthcare cost so I don't foresee docs making squat less yes but six figures isn't squat.....
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Docs in Europe have other benefits that make it a worthwhile. And school there is cheaper. They also get through it faster. Medicine is a 5 year degree track vs the way it is here with undergrad and then med school. Im not arguing the merits of doing things the European way here, just that it seems to fit in well with their expectations of it.
 
OP, I don't really think you should be completely basing your decision on cost of education or the current job market. Pick the path you would enjoy more and excel at. Unless you have exactly the same desire to be an optometrist as you do to be a nurse, go with the one you prefer-which sounds like nursing in your case. Crunch the numbers carefully and think about how paying back x amount of debt will affect your lifestyle. Besides that just go with the one that seems better for you! As has already been pointed out in this thread, job markets are constantly in flux.
 
takeonme said:
True. Numerous people I finished nursing school with have yet to find a job despite applying to multiple places, going to job fairs, etc. Thats if you want to work in a hospital. I know you might have better luck at nursing homes, from what I see and hear. The job market in Ca is not pretty
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Heard of quite a few working in non-nursing roles for not much more than minimum wage.

To be fair though, ALL of the ones that are in that position graduated from CCs with their ASN. BSNs are having a better time than they are, and the BSNs graduating from "better" schools seem to be landing jobs just fine. MSNs just a bit better than the BSNs.

But those graduating from the "diploma mills" (which would have found a job 5yrs ago) are having a harder time.
 
Optomchick said:
I am aware of the posts on allnurses.com. I don't think you understand that Optometry school costs twice as much as nursing and there are FEWER jobs in the job market right now. Nursing school is also half the time of Optometry school.
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That's not uncommon to hear from people that have been in nursing for 5+ years. The longer they have been nurses, the more out of touch with the reality of the job marketplace across other fields / industries.

Here you go: Accelerated Bachelor's of Science in Nursing in 11 months. Must have a bachelor's degree in another field in order to apply.

http://www.samuelmerritt.edu/nursing
 
pamac said:
For some folks, nursing is a good fit because they like working 3 days a week, and a decent paycheck.
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Gee, and here I thought people enjoyed working 6 days a week for low pay. 😀
 
FireCloud9 said:
Heard of quite a few working in non-nursing roles for not much more than minimum wage.

To be fair though, ALL of the ones that are in that position graduated from CCs with their ASN. BSNs are having a better time than they are, and the BSNs graduating from "better" schools seem to be landing jobs just fine. MSNs just a bit better than the BSNs.

But those graduating from the "diploma mills" (which would have found a job 5yrs ago) are having a harder time.
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Yes. It is harder for those who graduated from CCs with their ASN since it seems like many hospitals are interested in acquiring magnet status. I do wish all new grad nurses the best of luck with job hunting🙂
 
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FireCloud9 said:
Gee, and here I thought people enjoyed working 6 days a week for low pay. 😀
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Some folks go into fields for the wrong reasons, (often because they bought into the hype and put themselves into debt to do it). I bet to make 90k as a nurse, even in California, you need to work two jobs, and close to 6 days a week. Then again, that may be the case. But with taxes, cost of living, etc, your 90k a year dwindles, California doesn't look so hot. The other problem is the lack of options that exist in that kind of environment. You take whatever position you can get, even as an experienced nurse. Competition for open spots makes mobility difficult.

New grads near me fare about as well whether they are bsn or adn. Many of the ADNs are folks that are currently working for a hospital in some capacity, so they get hired for RN positions that new grad bsns wouldn't get. In that case, the facility usually expects the ADN to continue on to get their bsn through tuition reimbursement.
 
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takeonme said:
Yes. It is harder for those who graduated from CCs with their ASN since it seems like many hospitals are interested in acquiring magnet status. I graduated with a BSN and was hired at the hosp where I spent most of my clinical time as a student. Unfortunately, a good amount of my classmates are still unemployed and looking for jobs along with some of my friends who graduated from other schools (including WCU). I do wish all new grad nurses the best of luck with job hunting🙂
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Though it could be another factor at play. Around here the CCs are practically free, so the students graduating from those programs which are usually much younger than 2nd degree students aren't under the same pressure to pay back students loans which can be much more extensive in the BSN/MSN programs.
 
Optomchick said:
As I told somone else, I am NOT living in OAKLAND aka MURDER CITY. Also, sadly I don't qualify for financial aid at WCU, you have to take out a private loan with a cosigner 🙁
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Don't know where you live, but SMU isn't only in Oakland. That's just their main campus. Plenty of folks graduate from their other campuses without ever setting foot in Oakland.
 
pamac said:
Some folks go into fields for the wrong reasons, (often because they bought into the hype and put themselves into debt to do it). I bet to make 90k as a nurse, even in California, you need to work two jobs, and close to 6 days a week. Then again, that may be the case. But with taxes, cost of living, etc, your 90k a year dwindles, California doesn't look so hot. The other problem is the lack of options that exist in that kind of environment. You take whatever position you can get, even as an experienced nurse. Competition for open spots makes mobility difficult.

New grads near me fare about as well whether they are bsn or adn. Many of the ADNs are folks that are currently working for a hospital in some capacity, so they get hired for RN positions that new grad bsns wouldn't get. In that case, the facility usually expects the ADN to continue on to get their bsn through tuition reimbursement.
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On your first point - the $90k/yr as an RN in CA. We do know several nurses that work 2 jobs and those 2 jobs combined make up 40hrs. They usually start out at UC Davis FT for the 1st year and reduce their hours voluntarily to 20hrs (the minimum necessary to retain FT health benefits) and they work the other 10-20hrs per diem (at a much higher rate) for the other hospitals in the area - Kaiser being one of the higher paying hospitals (though I hear from RNs that KP benefits are not as good as UCD). We do know some nurses that make in the $80s, but they don't work 40hrs. Maybe it's just an amazing coincidence that we can't seem to run across a BSN RN making less than $90k around here.

On your 2nd point - There are some ADNs around here coming out of CCs that have an "in" because they work in another capacity at a hospital, but that's no different than the BSNs that are in the same positon. There will always be a minority in ADN / BSN even MSN programs that have an "in".

With those exceptions, and for those students that don't have an "in", my previous statement holds. The BSNs are having an easier time finding jobs than the ADNs. However, as I've mentioned, and you've pointed it, that could be in part due to the pressures of student loans. After all, an ADN graduating with virtually no debt and living at home can "afford" to take their time looking for a job.
 
FireCloud9 said:
On your first point - the $90k/yr as an RN in CA. We do know several nurses that work 2 jobs and those 2 jobs combined make up 40hrs. They usually start out at UC Davis FT for the 1st year and reduce their hours voluntarily to 20hrs (the minimum necessary to retain FT health benefits) and they work the other 10-20hrs per diem (at a much higher rate) for the other hospitals in the area - Kaiser being one of the higher paying hospitals (though I hear from RNs that KP benefits are not as good as UCD). We do know some nurses that make in the $80s, but they don't work 40hrs. Maybe it's just an amazing coincidence that we can't seem to run across a BSN RN making less than $90k around here.

On your 2nd point - There are some ADNs around here coming out of CCs that have an "in" because they work in another capacity at a hospital, but that's no different than the BSNs that are in the same positon. There will always be a minority in ADN / BSN even MSN programs that have an "in".

With those exceptions, and for those students that don't have an "in", my previous statement holds. The BSNs are having an easier time finding jobs than the ADNs. However, as I've mentioned, and you've pointed it, that could be in part due to the pressures of student loans. After all, an ADN graduating with virtually no debt and living at home can "afford" to take their time looking for a job.
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Over half the folks in my ADN program have "ins".... They are currently cna's, lpn's, surg techs, etc. They chose the ADN program because it allowed us to maintain work, family, and school all at once. The accelerated bachelors programs seem to be more time consuming. I never run into folks from those programs in the workforce working even very abbreviated amounts of time. That makes their network weaker, and therefore job prospects suffer. But accelerated bsn programs here are few in comparison to the many traditional bsn programs. And our program has a clearly older population of students. I think only about 4 folks are younger than 23. So when you put a lot of folks that arent new to the job search/networking rodeo by virtue of this being a second career for many of us, you see folks that are more aggressive in following an employment plan. Most of us know that even being a housekeeper in a hospital means human resources would rather hire you out of school than a new grad they don't know from big name university. If you want an "in" you can build it by just being an employee. Then one day you go talk to a unit manager and say "hey I'm dirk from nutrition services, and I'm graduating next semester. What can I do to get an RN job on your unit?" And there's your advocate. Your already part of the team, and someone will help you if you make a good impression. A lot of young bsns don't know how to talk to someone outside of the confines of campus. Nor do they think they can/should work while in nursing school. Some of that could be a sense of entitlement, or the belief that the market will come through for them.
 
FireCloud9 said:
So you're a retired nurse commenting on the CA RN job market as if you were working and lived here?

Just doing my homework. 😉
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The numbers in California don't tell the whole story. You look at most professions there, and they skew pretty high. If you wanted to be a cop, then the numbers would indicate that the only place worth doing that would be California, but that's not the case with the taxes, fees, home prices, rent... The really high wages are in the high wage areas , and they paint a rosier picture. If you cut out some of the high end places in the bay area, you are left with wages that are closer to what nursing pays elsewhere.... To the point that it doesn't outweigh the costs of living. 90 grand is great money, even for California, but you hop on a cost of living comparison calculator, and you see that California nursing wages are in line with what you see other places.
 
As a current nursing student in CA, I can attest that the market here is an absolute nightmare for new graduate RNs.
 
Optomchick said:
As I told somone else, I am NOT living in OAKLAND aka MURDER CITY. Also, sadly I don't qualify for financial aid at WCU, you have to take out a private loan with a cosigner 🙁
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Smh. Definitely young and too sheltered. Waste that 100k and make some school happy
 
FireCloud9 said:
So you're a retired nurse commenting on the CA RN job market as if you were working and lived here?

Just doing my homework. 😉
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Just because I've recently stopped working doesn't mean I've stopped keeping up with what's going on within my profession, both locally and on a national level. I'm also a member of the California Nurse's Association/NNU, so...
 
Optomchick said:
.
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If you been spotted by a friend in here I would pay the gold member fee and delete your post. All stuff aside that is an easy way to rid yourself of any problems. I hope you didn't end up like the cat in the hat(a member on here whose name is supposedly forbidden)
 
The OP has a problem with Oakland, but wants to live in SF :smack:
 
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