RN to MD

[Renee18]

Hello again!

So I've looked at my schools qualifications to get into RN school and I've taken almost all of the pre-reqs for nursing school and will be able to apply to the program in October. If I get accepted I'll start the nursing program in January (SP 20). I want to be a medical doctor but I'm so afraid of not getting into Medical school and I want a back up plan. If everything goes according to plan I will graduate with my BSN in May of 2021 (16 month program) and as I work I will finish up the remaining pre-reqs for medical school which would only take one more year to complete.
Is this a terrible plan? I'm going on 26 years old and just want to be able to support myself if no MD program takes me.
If I choose this route and still decide to apply to medical programs when I'm a nurse will I have less of a chance of getting into a program?
Thanks in advance.

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[candbgirl]

There are several threads dealing with this subject. Do a search of this forum and you'll get plenty of information. If you don’t plan to practice nursing why would you take a seat from someone who does? The career paths are very different.

 

[PA_dud3]

In my opinion BSN prior to med school is nearly universally a bad idea.

 

[Melchizedek]

Hey, previous RN now in med school.

Those are the same reasons I went to nursing school first. Be prepared to answer the question "why did you choose to go to nursing school if you knew you wanted to go into medicine"
Understand that nurses and physicians have separate roles on a healthcare team.

Its not a bad plan, its not the most ideal either. You won't face discrimination from adcoms specifically because you have a BSN. At the very least you can spin it like it shows maturity that you were so pragmatic. Not everyone gets into medical school, thats reality. You are at least thinking ahead and creating a back up plan.

Feel free to message me if you have other questions, but like someone else said, there are a few threads already discussing this topic.

Last of all, this site has an overall really negative view on nurses and you will get some backlash over this. Take it all with a grain of salt and move on.

 

[stickgirl390]

There are 2 people in my class who were RNs before med school. Neither of them used RN as a “back up”, it was more like they changed what they wanted to do in their career after working for a few years. But N=2 so take that with a grain of salt. They are both in their 30s for what it’s worth.

 

[sunshinefl]

I’ve written about this so much I don’t have the energy to be thorough anymore.

I was an RN before medical school. At the time I started I didn’t know I wanted to be a doctor. It was great health care experience, but I wouldn’t do it again if I knew that. They are very different roles and the path is longer and harder. Also, my BS was not a BSN. Nursing was an associate degree and then I got a good old fashioned bachelor degree.

 

[Rachapkis]

Unless you need time to improve your application (e.g., your GPA or your ECs), I would not let fear of failure guide your decision. As others have said, nurses play a different role in the caring process than doctors. If you want to be a doctor, believe in yourself and take the steps necessary to become a doctor. Don't let fear lead you down a path you perceive as a second choice--it can be very difficult to change paths once your life gets going.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I'm glad I did nursing first. Really takes off the financial stress of premed, I will soon be going to only 4 days a month and still making over 2000$. Also, it gives you lots of clinical experience in dealing with patients and understanding hospital structure, culture, and do's and donts.

On one hand many adcoms and moderators here will advise you to have a backup plan since there is a high chance you'll never be a doctor, but then they'll still recommend you do a major which will make you little to no money for MCAT (math, social sciences, etc) but if its what you have to lean on if med school doesn't work out, it will surely suck. I honestly don't understand it.

That being said, I never expected to be able to become a doctor and needed a job where I could start making money to help support my mom and our farm after my dad died.

 

[dpmd]

It can be difficult to get into nursing programs as well. It took a few years of applying for my husband despite applying to the twice a year start times offered and that was because he went for the associated degree version instead of waiting for the school offering BSN. While in school he wouldn't have had time for classes outside the program either. Probably not the best strategy.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I guess it depends on the area. I was extremely competitive with virtually every nursing school in the area(and not nearly as competitive with MD) 3.4 or so cum GPA. (Except one university school that is notoriously hard to get into).

But no you definitely wont have time for outside classes, if they even allow it. Even working on the side is hard.

 

[Renee18]

I guess it depends on the area. I was extremely competitive with virtually every nursing school in the area(and not nearly as competitive with MD) 3.4 or so cum GPA. (Except one university school that is notoriously hard to get into).

But no you definitely wont have time for outside classes, if they even allow it. Even working on the side is hard.

For the remainder pre-med courses that I would have to take I wouldn’t start on them until I was out of nursing school and working as a nurse. As for getting in the nursing programs here I’ve completed nearly every pre-req for their program and have all A’s.
My dream is to be a doctor and it always has been but as most people know on here, sometimes you just can’t because no body will accept you into a program. I just want to make sure that if that happens I’ll still be apart of the medical community while being self-supporting at the same time.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I don’t see a problem with it. You’ll get a lot of nurse hate /disdain on here, but pretty much every doctor I’ve spoken to in real life acts like it’s a great thing I have nursing experience when I tell them I want to be a doctor. Plus they’re all eager to let me shadow

 

[PA_dud3]

For the remainder pre-med courses that I would have to take I wouldn’t start on them until I was out of nursing school and working as a nurse. As for getting in the nursing programs here I’ve completed nearly every pre-req for their program and have all A’s.
My dream is to be a doctor and it always has been but as most people know on here, sometimes you just can’t because no body will accept you into a program. I just want to make sure that if that happens I’ll still be apart of the medical community while being self-supporting at the same time.

Why not just take the traditional pre-med courses and focus on them so you don't need a backup? You should have a backup plan anyway, and nothing is saying you cant apply to nursing school in the event you aren't accepted.

Measure twice cut once and all that.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I guess I just don't understand why it is a poor undergrad for medicine. I see you have a BS in history. I could understand if your BS is in math, chemistry, etc, but what makes nursing less desirable than history as a med school entrance degree? As long as you can answer "Why MD and not RN" it sounds like you're golden, and I know of many doctors with backgrounds in nursing (The whole reason I saw it as an option was a RN gone Heart Surgeon I met on deployment and then a CNA->LPN->RN->Radiation Oncologist I met as a nursing student). I think its just how you sell yourself.


Plus, Doctor_dud3, if she gets a non nursing bachelors, doesn't matriculate, and then has to do a nursing education, not only will she have accumulated all of that debt, but that's what, 6+ years of not having an income. And then when she gets out of nursing school she will be paying on all of that debt on a nurses salary. I know I'm going against the grain here, but I disagree.

Another thing to keep in mind is if youre okay with being a DO, they tend to look favorably on nurses often.

 

[Isoval]

If you become an RN with the express intention of going to medical school afterwards, that’s a universally bad idea.

If you suddenly decided you wanted to go to medical school instead, be prepared to answer some hard questions, like others have said.

It’s not an optimal position to be in whichever way you look at it.

 

[dpmd]

I guess it depends on the area. I was extremely competitive with virtually every nursing school in the area(and not nearly as competitive with MD) 3.4 or so cum GPA. (Except one university school that is notoriously hard to get into).

But no you definitely wont have time for outside classes, if they even allow it. Even working on the side is hard.

For some idiotic reason the schools around here go by lottery for everyone who meets the minimum criteria, not by merit. Since I had a good job he was geographically limited.

 

[RNtoMD87]

The hard to get into school in SE Louisiana only goes by one requirement- GPA. And its much like you say. Even with a 3.9 you're likely to not get in. My school required a 2.7 but to be competitive you needed like a 3.2. But there was the additional TEASV test which I made a 93.9% on while the state and national mean was 63.5%. Most diploma/ADN programs here were similar, and the hospital program where I work (which isn't considered to be a good BSN school due to cost and inconvenience) is also a little more competitive based on GPA for whatever reason. The best schools are considered to be Southern (which is surprising because its viewed poorly in almost every other area, my school (When it was a diploma program. Not sure every since it became a BSN program and fell under William Carey), and the community college's 2 year degree.

My work hospital for some reason lets all of the other schools have as much preference to do clinicals here as their own students ("non profit" catholic hospital, but they seem pretty money grubbing to me). Meanwhile my school's hospital gave strong preference to its own students, and only allowed other students to do clinical rotations if there was extra availability).

 

[dpmd]

I guess I just don't understand why it is a poor undergrad for medicine. I see you have a BS in history. I could understand if your BS is in math, chemistry, etc, but what makes nursing less desirable than history as a med school entrance degree? As long as you can answer "Why MD and not RN" it sounds like you're golden, and I know of many doctors with backgrounds in nursing (The whole reason I saw it as an option was a RN gone Heart Surgeon I met on deployment and then a CNA->LPN->RN->Radiation Oncologist I met as a nursing student). I think its just how you sell yourself.


Plus, Doctor_dud3, if she gets a non nursing bachelors, doesn't matriculate, and then has to do a nursing education, not only will she have accumulated all of that debt, but that's what, 6+ years of not having an income. And then when she gets out of nursing school she will be paying on all of that debt on a nurses salary. I know I'm going against the grain here, but I disagree.

Another thing to keep in mind is if youre okay with being a DO, they tend to look favorably on nurses often.

I think it is because of the years of not relevant to applying to med school classes you end up taking. It is essentially taking a pause from your goal. Now sometimes that is needed. It certainly was for me because my grades weren't up to snuff and finances were a a big part of that. So I became an enlisted nurse in the army reserve. That made for a year long pause after which I kicked ass to finish up my (economics major) degree and the last prerequisites. But to qualify for the army lvn program isn't difficult at all and it only added a year whereas for a BSN I can see it adding more time which if the person could have been competitive without it means years less attending pay. It isn't that med schools will look down on it, just that as a main plan it isn't good. Like someone just starting out in undergrad doing that path wouldn't be optimal.

 

[863168]

@Renee18 I'm concerned that your primary consideration here is not getting into a medical school program. MSAR data for 2018 indicates that the matriculating GPA for accepted medical students is 3.72 with BCPM GPA being 3.65 and non-science GPA being 3.8. If you have been getting A's then you should be right in there with most applicants who apply and are accepted, therefore making you competitive. There are too many miserable people who self-select into something less competitive and always bemoan the idea that they could have been something else in life.

 

[PA_dud3]

I guess I just don't understand why it is a poor undergrad for medicine. I see you have a BS in history. I could understand if your BS is in math, chemistry, etc, but what makes nursing less desirable than history as a med school entrance degree? As long as you can answer "Why MD and not RN" it sounds like you're golden, and I know of many doctors with backgrounds in nursing (The whole reason I saw it as an option was a RN gone Heart Surgeon I met on deployment and then a CNA->LPN->RN->Radiation Oncologist I met as a nursing student). I think its just how you sell yourself.


Plus, Doctor_dud3, if she gets a non nursing bachelors, doesn't matriculate, and then has to do a nursing education, not only will she have accumulated all of that debt, but that's what, 6+ years of not having an income. And then when she gets out of nursing school she will be paying on all of that debt on a nurses salary. I know I'm going against the grain here, but I disagree.

Another thing to keep in mind is if youre okay with being a DO, they tend to look favorably on nurses often.

I enjoy history, its not a terribly hard or taxing major, and it allows me to complete all of my med school prereqs while volunteering, shadowing, and doing research.

Nursing, on the other hand, will likely not allow you to take your pre med courses outsude of the first two years of undergrad. Clinicals, professional classes, you name it. You're going to be super busy your last two years.

 

[Melchizedek]

I enjoy history, its not a terribly hard or taxing major, and it allows me to complete all of my med school prereqs while volunteering, shadowing, and doing research.

Nursing, on the other hand, will likely not allow you to take your pre med courses outsude of the first two years of undergrad. Clinicals, professional classes, you name it. You're going to be super busy your last two years.

It depends on the school/program. Some schools will let you take the BIO or CHEM version of the NURS designated classes you need for the nursing curriculum.
For example I was able to replace my NURS "microbiology" "organic chem" "Intro to biology" "Intro to chem" (which were all super toned down versions of the actual classes, designed to give the nursing students a background, but not the depth that the same course taught under the CHEM or BIO designation) by taking the actual class to hit pre-med requirements.

 

[863168]

@RNtoMD87 It's course rigor. Someone who takes a BS in science or even classes like Organic/Biochem with a pre-existing major on top of that within a 4 year time span is seen as having a more competitive course load than someone taking the nurse school class equivalents. Also, from my personal experience a lot of DNP/masters nurses teaching didactic classes have little to no comprehension of what is occurring on a cellular/microbial level and are especially weak when it comes to understanding the underlying genomics of physiological conditions. It's a very large reason why people who start with nursing feel unfulfilled and feel like there is a knowledge deficit gap because the quality of nursing schools are highly variable with highly variable instructors of which some I have found are outright questionable.

 

[Renee18]

@Renee18 I'm concerned that your primary consideration here is not getting into a medical school program. MSAR data for 2018 indicates that the matriculating GPA for accepted medical students is 3.72 with BCPM GPA being 3.65 and non-science GPA being 3.8. If you have been getting A's then you should be right in there with most applicants who apply and are accepted, therefore making you competitive. There are too many miserable people who self-select into something less competitive and always bemoan the idea that they could have been something else in life.

Hey Pina,

I realize I haven't provided enough information on why I'm so scared of not getting into medical school. Here is my original post on SDN to give you an idea of my current situation:

(In my freshman year I wasn't very focused on my studies and in my first two semesters I ended up with a D in a bio, a C in that bio lab, an F in a chemistry, and an F in college algebra. After these two failed semesters I decided to take some time off and when I came back I transferred to another school and went into a BS in public health. When I transferred to this university they said my GPA would be wiped clean and I started out with a 4.0. Ever since I came back I have only gotten A's and A minuses. I graduated with a BS in public Health this past December with a cumulative GPA of 3.92.
Now that i've graduated I'm wanting to pursue a career in the medical field again so I went to see the pre-medical advisor this week and found that my current sGPA is 2.44 and overall GPA is 3.53 which includes my previous university grades.
We made a post-bacc plan and found that after completing 12 core courses (2 Gen Bios, 2 Gen Chems, 2 Ochems, 1 Biochem, 2 Physics, 1 math, psych 101, and an upper division bio) with all A's would get my general GPA up to 3.65 and my sGPA up to 3.4.
Are my chances of becoming a doctor ruined because of my first two freshman semesters or is it still possible for me to get accepted in medical school?
Some more information about me is that I'm a 25 year old white female, I have over 350 hours of community service hours logged, 100 hours of volunteer work at an ER, 2 research publications on the topic of cancer (5th author on both), was the president of the public health student association at my university, served as a student committee member for the accreditation of the public health program, and I am a part of the public health honor society (Delta Omega) and another honor society (Phi Kappa Phi).
I know that I need clinical and shadowing hours and I plan to work on them.)

 

[863168]

@RNtoMD87 I don't want to frame this as simply being a "nurses are ignorant" statement. Let me frame it this way. As a nurse you are taking care of a patient with sickle cell anemia. Your education leads you to consider clinical manifestations like potential chest pain, medication treatment for management, and how to judge exacerbation of the underlying condition. It is a very symptoms & intervention oriented mindset. But it doesn't ask questions like, "What caused SCA?" To which point, a nursing education will cover that it is a genetic mutation commonly found in African Americans. This is the extent to which these things are covered in nursing school or the zeitgeist of what a good nurse should know which is a sizable amount of information.

However, on MCAT a question will be: What pathology is characteristic of a point mutation on glutamic acid to valine? And without even needing to mention that it is going to be r/t a hemoglobin cell, 99.9% of students are going to automatically know the correlation due to having a course like Biochemistry for the entire year. Now it can be argued whether a bottom-up systems oriented thinking from DNA to RNA to protein is really more effective in training versus a nurse who has been working in the field with what would be considered going from a surface/top symptom management thinking to making connections with the underlying cellular connotations. I am personally disposed that the latter approach is more effective than the former, however I could be biased as I chose not to become a bench scientist. There is a philosophy that it is easier to build someone up from a research science oriented mindset than it is to seemingly convert someone to new associations of disease processes who has already learned said diseases in a different context. It's completely debatable whether or not one is more effective than the other, but there is an intention to it.

 

[RNtoMD87]

I enjoy history, its not a terribly hard or taxing major, and it allows me to complete all of my med school prereqs while volunteering, shadowing, and doing research.

Nursing, on the other hand, will likely not allow you to take your pre med courses outsude of the first two years of undergrad. Clinicals, professional classes, you name it. You're going to be super busy your last two years.

I agree (and I’m a fellow history buff. Amateur Ancient Rome era historian). But I believe those rigorous clinical years (and work) are good conditioning for med school. I see some med students really struggling with the clinical side as far as actually dealing with patients and their idiosyncrasies.

 

[RNtoMD87]

@RNtoMD87 It's course rigor. Someone who takes a BS in science or even classes like Organic/Biochem with a pre-existing major on top of that within a 4 year time span is seen as having a more competitive course load than someone taking the nurse school class equivalents. Also, from my personal experience a lot of DNP/masters nurses teaching didactic classes have little to no comprehension of what is occurring on a cellular/microbial level and are especially weak when it comes to understanding the underlying genomics of physiological conditions. It's a very large reason why people who start with nursing feel unfulfilled and feel like there is a knowledge deficit gap because the quality of nursing schools are highly variable with highly variable instructors of which some I have found are outright questionable.

Right. But that’s what med school prereqs are for. So we will be taking classes up to organic chem 2 and biochem as well as our bachelors in nursing, and MCAT will demonstrate whether we understand those concepts. So far I’m finding these classes much easier than nursing due to it being objectively graded and no clinical component. (Not to mention the 13 point grading scale vs a 7 point grading scale). Now yes, my RN-to BSN was a joke, but my diploma program was NO JOKE. I went from making straight As barely studying in uni to struggling to just pass at times in nursing.

Yet I hear people suggest English, the arts, etc as a good BS degree. I’m sorry but these generally are NOT rigorous. Like I said, I can see having a chem major or math major as being more academically rigorous, but I’ve seen far less rigorous BS suggested in lieu.

 

[sunshinefl]

For the remainder pre-med courses that I would have to take I wouldn’t start on them until I was out of nursing school and working as a nurse. As for getting in the nursing programs here I’ve completed nearly every pre-req for their program and have all A’s.
My dream is to be a doctor and it always has been but as most people know on here, sometimes you just can’t because no body will accept you into a program. I just want to make sure that if that happens I’ll still be apart of the medical community while being self-supporting at the same time.

If you are really concerned then there are 1 year BS—>BSN programs that you could do if you aren’t accepted. Do a general BS degree in something that interests you.

 

[Renee18]

If you are really concerned then there are 1 year BS—>BSN programs that you could do if you aren’t accepted. Do a general BS degree in something that interests you.

Hey Sunshinefl,

I'm technically a reinventor and graduated with my BSPH in Dec of 2017 and all I have to complete now is my remaining pre-reqs for medical school. My first year of undergrad i wrecked my GPA by failing a few science courses and a math course and then turned things around and have made straight A's since then. With so much competition for MD spots I'm worried my first year as an undergrad will screw me over which is why I'm think about getting a BSN as a backup.

 

[sunshinefl]

Hey Sunshinefl,

I'm technically a reinventor and graduated with my BSPH in Dec of 2017 and all I have to complete now is my remaining pre-reqs for medical school. My first year of undergrad i wrecked my GPA by failing a few science courses and a math course and then turned things around and have made straight A's since then. With so much competition for MD spots I'm worried my first year as an undergrad will screw me over which is why I'm think about getting a BSN as a backup.

1-yes that’s why I said it would be a plan B *after/if you don’t get in*. Plan A is to get into medical school.

2-MD is very competitive. Consider DO as well. I am at a DO program.

3-my freshman year GPA was 1.5 due to not withdrawing from courses I never set foot it the second semester.

4-figure out what your current cGPA and sGPA are, as well as your max cGPA and sGPA if you got all As for the remaining credits you need/have planned.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Hey Sunshinefl,

I'm technically a reinventor and graduated with my BSPH in Dec of 2017 and all I have to complete now is my remaining pre-reqs for medical school. My first year of undergrad i wrecked my GPA by failing a few science courses and a math course and then turned things around and have made straight A's since then. With so much competition for MD spots I'm worried my first year as an undergrad will screw me over which is why I'm think about getting a BSN as a backup.

In that case if you have a BS, yes just do prereqs.

 

[863168]

@Renee18 There's a lot to question and unpack with what you know and what you don't know about the process. My impression is that we are very much at the basement of a 100 floor complex and that there needs to be some basic work up before we make it to the ground floor. There is a lot of nuance in this game that goes unstated because it's too much of a hassle to spell out every single detail to someone who is just trying to get their foot in the door.

• Going to osteopathic school is a competitive option with a 3.4 sGPA and 3.65 cGPA post-buildup, but is it something that you are sure you want? E.g. Do you know what specialties you might be interested in? Have you shadowed in various clinical settings so you can generate some basic ideas of what a physician does within their scope of practice?

• Is going into nursing something that you are sure you want as a Plan B? Are you aware of what job specialties there are within nursing? Do you know what is the scope of practice for a nurse compared to a physician or even a mid-level practitioner?

• How long can you be financially supported and is income something that needs to be considered when we are thinking about potential options? What types of post-bacs could you consider to apply towards e.g. DIY Post-bac v. SMP (specialized master's program)?

One of the benefits of having this as a face-to-face meeting is that I can stop talking and ask you to conceptualize what I told you. You would be surprised how drastically misunderstood the initial message was interpreted on a literal level and at times from a lack of sufficient understanding. I like to ask questions because I'm not sure how many floors need to be climbed, but it has always been that I am not able to climb very far with any single interested applicant.

 

[Renee18]

@Renee18 There's a lot to question and unpack with what you know and what you don't know about the process. My impression is that we are very much at the basement of a 100 floor complex and that there needs to be some basic work up before we make it to the ground floor. There is a lot of nuance in this game that goes unstated because it's too much of a hassle to spell out every single detail to someone who is just trying to get their foot in the door.

• Going to osteopathic school is a competitive option with a 3.4 sGPA and 3.65 cGPA post-buildup, but is it something that you are sure you want? E.g. Do you know what specialties you might be interested in? Have you shadowed in various clinical settings so you can generate some basic ideas of what a physician does within their scope of practice?

• Is going into nursing something that you are sure you want as a Plan B? Are you aware of what job specialties there are within nursing? Do you know what is the scope of practice for a nurse compared to a physician or even a mid-level practitioner?

• How long can you be financially supported and is income something that needs to be considered when we are thinking about potential options? What types of post-bacs could you consider to apply towards e.g. DIY Post-bac v. SMP (specialized master's program)?

One of the benefits of having this as a face-to-face meeting is that I can stop talking and ask you to conceptualize what I told you. You would be surprised how drastically misunderstood the initial message was interpreted on a literal level and at times from a lack of sufficient understanding. I like to ask questions because I'm not sure how many floors need to be climbed, but it has always been that I am not able to climb very far with any single interested applicant.

To answer your questions, MD schools would be preferred but I would love getting into a DO school as well. A specialty I'm interested in is infectious disease. Other than that specialty I plan on being either internal medicine or a primary care physician. I haven't showed a physician as of yet though.

As for the nursing plan I would want it to be my plan B if a medical school doesn't take me because I want to be in the clinical field in some way. As a nurse I could specialize as a NP or CRNA. The scope of practice between an MD (if they're a primary care physician) and NP is that MD's have more in-depth training and knowledge of disease processes because of the differences in their educational training. RN's/NP's are trained on the nursing model which is more holistic while doctors are trained at a greater depth.

I can be financially supported but if I'm unable to get into a MD or DO program I want to be able to support myself as soon as possible. Also, I'm doing a DIY Post-bacc since there are no SMP programs anywhere near me.

 

[RNtoMD87]

Watch saying “nursing is more holistic” to doctors or adcoms though. While I tend to agree, many of them will get pissy. Obviously some specialties are more holistic than others. You’ll hear hospitalists and PCPs complain about that often,

 

[Renee18]

Watch saying “nursing is more holistic” to doctors or adcoms though. While I tend to agree, many of them will get pissy.

Yeah, sorry , I don't know how else to say it.