RN to physician

[crhsrn]

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i expect to get some flack from this but ... what do you guys (do's and ms's) think of rn's going to medical school. i've read some 'heated' posts about how the med students feel about np's and crna's and quite frankly i don't understand the beef, but that's another thread in and of itself. do rn's seem to have an advantage or are they just as overwhelmed as everyone else? any and all advice is appreciated.

 

[fabiolablake]

Why are you posting in the pre-osteopathic forum? We aren't going to be MDs.

 

[DD214_DOC]

This should be in the allopathic forum, but if I was an adcom I would not admit you. At least, you would have to give a damn good reason to. There is a huge nursing shortage and you are leaving the field? That shows a lack of commitment and raises dollar signs to me. You're already helping people, you have good job security, why leave? I only see money. This may not be true, but good luck convincing adcoms.

 

[Robz]

Originally posted by JKDMed
This should be in the allopathic forum, but if I was an adcom I would not admit you. At least, you would have to give a damn good reason to. There is a huge nursing shortage and you are leaving the field? That shows a lack of commitment and raises dollar signs to me. You're already helping people, you have good job security, why leave? I only see money. This may not be true, but good luck convincing adcoms.

I disagree, I say obtaining more autonomy to a huge difference. Make the big decisions versus taking them all. I'm not saying there isn't a nursing shortage but you might want to consider that you don't know what someone's personal story of why they chose medicine. That's why they have those questions on the secondaries and applications.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Originally posted by Robz
I disagree, I say obtaining more autonomy to a huge difference. Make the big decisions versus taking them all. I'm not saying there isn't a nursing shortage but you might want to consider that you don't know what someone's personal story of why they chose medicine. That's why they have those questions on the secondaries and applications.

I wasn't pointing fingers, it was hypothetical. It would be difficult to convince an adcom why you're leaving RN. Make the decisions? Sounds like you're doing it for power.

 

[Robz]

Originally posted by JKDMed
I wasn't pointing fingers, it was hypothetical. It would be difficult to convince an adcom why you're leaving RN. Make the decisions? Sounds like you're doing it for power.

Not pointing fingers eh? Calling me out on power eh? Looks like a finger to me. Anyway dude, I'm not here to fight. I know why I am into medicine, what my background is, and why I am so passionate about medicine.

Please don't make generalized statements when you don't know why.....thanks.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Dude, I will say it again. Telling an adcom what you told me might make them think that you're just doing it for a power trip. It's a hypothetical. Roleplaying, whatever.

 

[crhsrn]

😕

jkdmed, where are you drawing your information from? are you on an adcom ? have you asked this specific question to someone on the adcom? just curious b/c robz nailed when he said you have NO idea why someone has chosen to apply to medical school. as far as that goes, you could say the same thing about the teacher who has a midlife realization that they want to do more and go to med school, or the 'techie' who lost his job b/c of the tech bust ... there are many reasons people decide to go to med school, and just b/c it's not the same reason YOU chose, doesn't make it wrong. 🙂


FABIOLABLAKE ... sorry ... i did post this in the allopathic site but cut and paste it and didn't 'fix' the question .... please accept my DEEPEST apologies. 🙄

 

[fabiolablake]

No apology needed. Good luck to you. Do you have a preference between DO or MD?

 

[DD214_DOC]

Jesus christ, I am not saying why I think HE or any other particular person chose to go to medical school. I am simply postulating what an adcom might ask you or think about a sudden career change. This same question was asked months ago on another board, and an adcom replied with the same stuff I am trying to tell you guys.

No wonder the VR section is often the worst for premeds. 🙄

 

[Buster Douglas]

Originally posted by crhsrn
do rn's seem to have an advantage or are they just as overwhelmed as everyone else? any and all advice is appreciated.

Wow. What was all that about? 🙂

Typically...
Allopathic schools tend to be turned off by 'non-traditional' students.
Osteopathic schools seem to prefer them.

It's really up to the individual reviewer's own prejudices whether your previous degree will help or hurt your chances of getting in. I, for one, am really impressed by the people that are willing to lay it on the line and go with their gut. It's not easy to work full-time, take pre-reqs, and apply, knowing you'll be taking on ~$150,000 in debt.

As for the clinical years, PA's, RN's, and EMT's are at a huge advantage. Heck, most of us just learned how to use a stethescope properly.

 

[DrMom]

I fixed the thread title.

As to the original questions, I have an RN in my class, so I'll answer based on my experiences with her.

She is basically like all of the rest of us, but she does have a leg up on some of the clinical skills (as do the PA and EMTs in my class). As far as the pure academics go, she's on the same level as the rest of us.

I've never run into any physician who was critical of a nurse becoming a physician, but I'm sure there are some out there. Nursing and being a physician are pretty different jobs, not even counting the autonomy issues. I don't think that a nurse explaining to an adcom why they now want to be a physician would be really any different from someone like me (a former teacher/college instructor) explaining the same thing.

 

[crhsrn]

"if I was an adcom I would not admit you. At least, you would have to give a damn good reason to. There is a huge nursing shortage and you are leaving the field? That shows a lack of commitment and raises dollar signs to me. You're already helping people, you have good job security, why leave? I only see money. This may not be true, but good luck convincing adcoms."


"I am simply postulating what an adcom might ask you or think about a sudden career change."

this certains seems to be stating WHY you think i or anyone else would choose to change careers. so i guess what you're saying is ... adcom wouldn't ask this question to say ... a premed student, but when they see a second career student they would jump on the opportunity.

i didn't become a nurse to HELP the nursing shortage, so if it shows a lack of commitment to the nursing field, let it. this is simply "B" on my way from "A" to "C".

if i were to choose my job based on monitary gain, i would just go on to crna school. it would only take me 2-3 more years and when i graduate i will make a comparable salary to that of a DR. (starting off in the $150,000+ range).

😉

 

[crhsrn]

thank you DRMOM,
i originally posted this on the allopathic forum and just didn't make the necessary changes, but thanks. i didn't realize it would cause such a stink! 😀

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by crhsrn
thank you DRMOM,
i originally posted this on the allopathic forum and just didn't make the necessary changes, but thanks. i didn't realize it would cause such a stink! 😀

sometimes people are a little sensitive around here. 🙂

 

[DD214_DOC]

crhsrn,

It's nothing personal, I have no opinion. But I know some adcoms can be brutal. 😀 Good luck.

In relation to the above comment by DrMom, I got an email from my premed office about the LOR the DO sent me. They were having problems finding my file (they eventually found it) but she referred to the writer as Firstname Lastname, MD

 

[sophiejane]

I have a good friend who is a fantastic nurse, and she is starting med school in the fall. She experienced nothing negative about her decision in her interviews. She is going to be an amazing doctor and no adcom in their right mind would find fault with her. I suspect there are many nurses who would make exceptional doctors, and if you have the desire, I am sure you will be one of them.

I am continually amazed at how overblown egos can get on this board, and how easily people overreact, don't read posts thoroughly, etc. (you actually addressed DOs in the first line of your post, so I don't know why people got their panties in a wad about that one...). Please don't take it personally.

Contrary to some of the replies to this post, I think you will find a lot of support and encouragement along the way if you decide to switch careers, and I think you would be especially well-received by osteopathic schools.

I only had one person give me that line about having to explain my decision to switch careers (I went from music to medicine) to adcoms--that was my pre-med advisor. I am so glad I didn't worry about that, since I never once had to explain my decision in an interview.

Best of luck to you!

 

[mikeh27]

I thought I would share my personal experience with everyone concerning this topic. I am a typical college senior (21 years old, I am graduating in May) and my degree will be in Nursing. And after I graduate I plan to sit for my nursing boards and get my license to be an RN...however, for the most part I will never put this to use because I am starting med school in the fall at UMDNJ-SOM...So, although I am not someone who really worked as an RN, I will be an RN and a med student...with that said, let me tell you about my interview experiences and how my unique situation was regarded...I interviewed at UMDNJ and LECOM and the first question I was asked by both admission committee's was about me majoring in Nursing and why I now wanted to go to med school (it was also the focus of my personal statement)...In brief, this is what I said, and it is the honest truth...I thought majoring in nursing would be the ultimate "pre med." Most students at my college who want to go to med school major in bio, some chem, but mostly bio..My thoughts were that as a science major if I did not get into med school then I was left with very few options outside of academia and research...neither of which do anything for me personally...However, by majoring in nursing, I was ensuring myself a career in healthcare, treating patients, working with patients, and making a difference in their lives...which are my priorities for a career...but more importantly, nursing gave me a headstart, compared to bio majors, in many aspects of healthcare (technical skills, medication knowledge, pathophysiology, etc.) and also gave me a chance to work with patients and practice my interpersonal skills (the most importatnt attribute of a doctor, in my humble opinion)...and majoring in nursing had one more benefit...I am now able to combine the principles of nursing and medicine when I treat my patients...and I am able to see the perspective of a nurse and hopefully develop very strong working relationships with nurses which I think is invaluable becasue from my experience it seems to me that the tension between nurses and doctors is counter-productive and a harm to patients, but considering my experience, I hope to build a stronger bridge between the two professions...which consequently I think will create a higher quality of care for the patients...That is what I told the admission committees, that is truly how I feel, and since I was accepted at both schools I interviewed at while also receiving interview invites from many other DO and MD schools, it seems to me that the admission committees' were pretty well convinced that RN's can make great nurses...So, in response to JKDMed's statements...yes, it is a concern and an area of intrigue for admission commitee's but I think RN's can make a very good case, just as good as any other pre-med student, concerning why they want to practice medicine...It worked for me and I would strongly recommend anyone who wants to go to med school and is not sure of what to major in that they major in nursing!!!

 

[mikeh27]

it seems to me that the admission committees' were pretty well convinced that RN's can make great nurses...

This should say "doctors" at the end, not nurses...sorry about the typo..RN's can make great doctors...OOPS!!!

 

[crhsrn]

SOPHIEJANE ... my original 'first line' said ... "what do you guys (MD's and ms's) think of rn's going to medical school. i was quickly informed that students on this forum weren't going to be MD's but DO's (i originally posted this on the pre-allopathic forum, then cut and pasted it onto this one and didn't edit it). my bad 🙁

MIKEH27 ... wow, very inspiring story. i'm glad to see that you too didn't go into nursing to help the nursing shortage. hehe like i said ... my life is a linear graph, right now i'm at point "B" (male nurse or MURSE as stated on scrubs) headed to point "C" (medical school ??? maybe 😕 ) the one thing really holding me back is that i have a little girl now and i hate to spend the rest of her childhood w/ my nose in a book . but this is my life long dream. ever since i can remember ever wanting to be something, i wanted to be a DR. i just played a lil too much in college, now i'm sleeping in the bed that i've made.

oh well, i guess i'll just wait and see. 😀

 

[doc3341]

I agree with mike. Im majoring in Health Science, but if I could do it again, i'd definetely major in nursing! Congrats on your admission!

 

[Goofyone]

I don't see how or why any adcom would/could discriminate against a nurse.

I may be naive, but I would expect an RN to be treated like any other non-trad student.

They are still going to have to do the pre-reqs, get good grades, and have EC's.

I would think that, if anything, an RN is going to help a little--I think any RN to doctor is going to have a very realistic expectation of the profession--more so than most college kids that "want to be a doctor when they grow up."

 

[starayamoskva]

I am an RN, worked as an RN for 15 years before I went to med school. I am currently in my third year at an allopathic school and there are three other nurses in my class as well as 4 pharm D's, a former restaurant owner, a couple of engineers, a retired army officer and a multitude of people fresh out of college. Point here is that it doesn't matter, we all got in.

What I am hearing is that because I am a nurse and there is a nursing shortage, then my dreams and aspirations don't mean as much as your dreams and aspirations. I am not a twenty two year old fresh from college graduate, but I have as much right to achieve my dreams as anyone else.

I will alight from my soap box and respond to the original poster.
During the preclinical years there is no advantage to having been a nurse. The level of science taught in nursing schools is far below what you must know for medical school. There is indeed a difference between the education of doctors and nurses.

As far as the clinical years go, you have to make a conscious effort to; as my preceptor in Intro to clinical medicine put it; "stop thinking like a nurse and start thinking like a physician, you are not a nurse anymore."
It is nice to at least know your way around a hospital, to already speak the language and to have some skills with interviewing patients and it helps to know what pisses off the nursing staff so you can stay on their good side.

I wish you all the luck in your medical education regardless of the path you take.

 

[crhsrn]

GOOFY ... good point. and if not a realistic expectation of being a dr. at least a realistic expectation of healthcare/hospitals in general.

 

[Freeeedom!]

I have worked with many RN's who then became MD's and DO's...I myself was a PT prior to medical school. Those with previous experience have an advantage in medical school admissions (advanced age is a negative, but recent high MCAT's and "warm up classes" like biochem are positives). I have interviewed MANY such medical students as they enter residency, and depending on the field you wish to pursue, your previous experience is certainly a plus. You will be seen as 'more mature' likely ' more goal directed' and you will already have a specialty in mind.
In the first 2 years of medical school, you may be at a disadvantage as the younger students are used to the study requirements and the long hours staring into a text book. But as the years progress, your early clinical experience will serve you well on the wards when ABG's, lines, or vitals are needed quickly.

I applaud your excitement into entering into medical school.

I wish you the best of luck.

 

[crhsrn]

STARAYAMOSKVA ... excellent response. thank you. however, you bring up another point i've yet to ponder ... are my nursing cohorts ... my former allies, buddies, etc going to resent in the thought that i've 'abandoned' nursing? you would be one to ask since you, yourself may or may not have experienced this in your practice. you know, nurses can be VERY evil, should they want to be ... hehe 😀

 

[PACtoDOC]

An RN or any other healthcare professional has a huge advantage when trying to get into medical school, assuming their stats are on par with all the other applicants. No ADCOM is going to hold it against you for wanting to better yourself. There are literally hundreds of former RN's in medical schools all over the country. And not to offend Dr. Mom, but my experience has been that healthcare providers, like RN's and PA's, do have a leg up on the entire curriculum, not just the clinical years. To already have been exposed to pathophysiology and clinical medicine makes it at least 50% easier in any of these courses in the first two years. The hardest part of any new material is tromping through it the very first time, and as a prior clinician, many of us already had at least a superficial version of much of this first 2 years. But she is correct in stating that we are all on the same level. Being a healthcare professional before does not mean we will make better grades or better physicians; it just means school is a bit less rigorous. But JKMed, don't kid yourself, because RN's are not looked at in the way your undergrad brain feels they are. That is your misconception. How about saving your opinion for when you have actually formulated enough life experience to have one!!

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by PACtoDOC
And not to offend Dr. Mom, but my experience has been that healthcare providers, like RN's and PA's, do have a leg up on the entire curriculum, not just the clinical years.

None taken, I was just sharing the situation here. The RN does not appear to have any notable advantage in the sciences. The PA in my class definitely does, though. The EMTs had an advantage in some small areas of the sciences. All of these people have had a clear advantage in the clinical areas.

 

[crhsrn]

i must admit, there is a lot more encouragement here than i expected. of course, i'm drawing my ideas from the posts i've read on here about CRNA's (nurse anesthetists). alot of the students/residents on here really loathe them. i don't know why, but they do. so ... thank you all for your encouragement and also, thanks to those who weren't as encouraging.

 

[Fred Durst]

I will be starting DO school in the fall and spent 8 years as a Respiratory Therapist. I can only see how prior experience can help.

 

[crhsrn]

FRED ... has being an RRT swayed your specialty choice, ie. do you plan on persuing pulmonology?

 

[starayamoskva]

Originally posted by crhsrn
STARAYAMOSKVA ... excellent response. thank you. however, you bring up another point i've yet to ponder ... are my nursing cohorts ... my former allies, buddies, etc going to resent in the thought that i've 'abandoned' nursing? you would be one to ask since you, yourself may or may not have experienced this in your practice. you know, nurses can be VERY evil, should they want to be ... hehe 😀

In an ideal world everyone would be supportive of your decision. In reality things are different.

I worked as an RN through two years of undergraduate work completing a BS. Several of the nurses I worked with were extremely resentful of my going back to school and quite vocal about it. I don't think their point of contention was that I was abandoning nursing so much as they resented that I had the balls to actually do it.
I will have to admit that I got as many negative remarks from the physicians I worked with as from the nurses. I got so freaking tired of hearing that I was crazy to even consider medicine as a career. Of course most of these guys had been physicians for over 20 years and had gone through the major changes that occured in the early 90's. Suddenly they weren't the Uber Gods that they had been before and they weren't making a cool million a year, just a mere 500,000.

I took their advice with a grain of salt and now here I am a third year medical student planning a residency in ObGyn and hearing the same negative song and dance about the specialty as I did about going to med school.

Best of luck with everything.

 

[crhsrn]

😀

 

[crhsrn]

 

[bigmuny]

I love having nurses and PAs in school. I ask them to show me how to do stuff all the time, and I've learned a ton. In terms of an advantage, pre-clinical probably a little helpful, but I imagine you would rock on the wards. Additionally, don't listen to any of these people who say it will present a problem, they don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. Anyone who changes careers is going to get asked why, it is something to talk about during an interview, and more interesting to talk about than "tell me about your experience as president of the chess club." Because you get asked, does not mean it is being looked upon unfavorably, and of the people I know none believed it hurt them at all(and may have helped). I hope you will consider the osteopathic route, we need good people and I think you will find all the schools and the students very welcoming to non-trad/nurse. Best of luck.

 

[crhsrn]

wow, thanks bigmuny ... very encouraging. i'm looking seriously into the dallas area. university of north texas has a program that i've been looking at. 🙂