Rol

[josephf1]

lets say you rank a big program (internal medicine) #1 but they rank you #60,
then you rank a smaller lesser known program #2+ and so on and they rank you #1, and you really dont want to go there but have to pad your list
is it better to leave some programs off then, rank only places you will go to

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[Winged Scapula]

lets say you rank a big program (internal medicine) #1 but they rank you #60,
then you rank a smaller lesser known program #2+ and so on and they rank you #1, and you really dont want to go there but have to pad your list
is it better to leave some programs off then, rank only places you will go to

Only rank places you could reasonably see yourself going to because in the situation above, you will match at #2.

There is no reason to "pad your list" - it does not increase your chances of matching at your first choice - it only increases your chances of matching somewhere, even at a place you hate.

If you rank it, be prepared to go there.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you rank it, be prepared to go there.

If you match, you MUST go or be a match violator, which bars you from the match for years. Do not rank programs you do not want to go to.

 

[Doowai]

Beggars can't be choosers, so how bad of an idea is it for a beggar to rank anything and everything they interview at just to be sure to get into residency - understanding they may punt after PGY1?

Is it wrong to believe that having a successful PGY1 SOMEWHERE increases the chances of getting into a more desired place?

Doowai the beggar

 

[Winged Scapula]

Beggars can't be choosers, so how bad of an idea is it for a beggar to rank anything and everything they interview at just to be sure to get into residency - understanding they may punt after PGY1?

Is it wrong to believe that having a successful PGY1 SOMEWHERE increases the chances of getting into a more desired place?

Doowai the beggar

No, its not wrong to believe that and you may be right. But you have to ask yourself how miserable do you want to be to obtain your goal?

If you are ranking a program you wouldn't go to if you weren't a beggar, please assess why that would be. There are no guarantees that you will finish the year (especially if you are in a miserable place), be successful and get a better position the next year. If you aren't asked to stay at your PGY-1 program, some places see you as "used goods" and in fact, it may be better to spend the year doing research or something else rather than in a program which may or may not help you get a position for the following year.

If we're talking about not ranking a program simply because its "not on a coast" (which was one user's complaint about a well-reputed Nsgy program in Phoenix), that's a different story...but if its because it has a reputation of being extremely unpleasant, then you might want to reconsider ranking it. Not everyone has the same level of tolerance of these things.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

No, its not wrong to believe that and you may be right. But you have to ask yourself how miserable do you want to be to obtain your goal?
If you are ranking a program you wouldn't go to if you weren't a beggar, please assess why that would be. There are no guarantees that you will finish the year (especially if you are in a miserable place), be successful and get a better position the next year. If you aren't asked to stay at your PGY-1 program, some places see you as "used goods" and in fact, it may be better to spend the year doing research or something else rather than in a program which may or may not help you get a position for the following year.

If we're talking about not ranking a program simply because its "not on a coast" (which was one user's complaint about a well-reputed Nsgy program in Phoenix), that's a different story...but if its because it has a reputation of being extremely unpleasant, then you might want to reconsider ranking it. Not everyone has the same level of tolerance of these things.

I don't know, I'm more of the "would I rather go to this program or not Match" mentality... At the end of the day I think it's alot safer strategy.

 

[gng930]

I don't know, I'm more of the "would I rather go to this program or not Match" mentality... At the end of the day I think it's alot safer strategy.

It is indeed a tough call. The scramble these days are much less of a sure thing. In 2006, there were roughly 2000+ unmatched spots for 5000+ unmatched candidates. In 2007, it was more of a 1000 to 7000 ratio. The scramble heavily depends on quickness, timing, and resources. Even if you are a superb candidate, you can be superceded by inferior candidates who just happen to have better access to resources and information.

I guess I'll need to distinguish what is actually "hateful" and "undesirable" and then exclude the former from my ROL.

 

[buckley]

How many candidates can a program rank?
Is this...a)unlimited (so you just pray all the people ahead of you on the list did not ran the program), b) based on the number of slots (greater for bigger programs, c) absolute limit (100?)

 

[NotAProgDirector]

How many candidates can a program rank?
Is this...a)unlimited (so you just pray all the people ahead of you on the list did not ran the program), b) based on the number of slots (greater for bigger programs, c) absolute limit (100?)

We can rank as many as we want. We do not pay more for each rank. We are encouraged to rank 15+ candidates for each slot by the NRMP.

Beggars can't be choosers, so how bad of an idea is it for a beggar to rank anything and everything they interview at just to be sure to get into residency - understanding they may punt after PGY1?

Is it wrong to believe that having a successful PGY1 SOMEWHERE increases the chances of getting into a more desired place?

Doowai the beggar

I agree with the advice above. If you hate a place, you are unlikely to do well (despite your best intentions).

Also remember that "bailing out" after your PGY-1 is easier said than done. You will need to start looking for a new program in Nov-Jan timeframe. Finding time to interview while in your PGY-1 can be difficult, and your current PD will start trying to fill your spot.

Is getting a less than ideal PGY-1 better than no spot at all? There are success and disaster stories about this scattered on SDN. I guess I would look at it like this: assume that you will be at this program for the whole residency. If you can stomach that, then ranking it seems fine, and you can always try to transfer. If you'd rather donate half of your liver and a kidney, then you might simply be better off not matching there at all.

However, I certainly realize that this advice is much easier to dole out from behind my residency training....

 

[mlw03]

We can rank as many as we want. We do not pay more for each rank. We are encouraged to rank 15+ candidates for each slot by the NRMP.

that's quite a lot... do most programs even interview 15 candidates per slot? i'm going for pathology and from the data i've seen on freida, it seems like most places are interviewing 10 candidates per slot. and i thought even that was excessive. for an IM or peds program with 30 pgy-1 spots that'd mean 450 interviews!! and i've heard of some IM progams with up to 50 residents per year. i wouldn't want to begin to think about how a program director would go about trying to compile such a huge rank list.

to the original poster, take a look at the explanation on the NRMP website about how the match algorithm works. i think every candidate should spend the 15 minutes it takes to read it. but the important point for your question is what everyone is saying: don't rank a place you don't want to be for the length of your residency. or put another way, every program on your rank list should be a program you'd rather be at than scramble, and every program you interview at and don't rank, you would rather scramble than go there.

 

[Winged Scapula]

that's quite a lot... do most programs even interview 15 candidates per slot? i'm going for pathology and from the data i've seen on freida, it seems like most places are interviewing 10 candidates per slot. and i thought even that was excessive. for an IM or peds program with 30 pgy-1 spots that'd mean 450 interviews!! and i've heard of some IM progams with up to 50 residents per year. i wouldn't want to begin to think about how a program director would go about trying to compile such a huge rank list.

I can't speak for others...but my residency program interviews around 30-35 people for each categorical position.

 

[buckley]

yowza! that's a lot! i am feeling smaller and smaller by the minute this season goes...hahaha...good luck to all of us

 

[yippyskippy]

I know! I get so psyched about interview invites... congratulations, you now have a 1 in 30 chance of becoming a resident at our program... yikes.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

i wouldn't want to begin to think about how a program director would go about trying to compile such a huge rank list.

Actually, the bigger the list the easier it is to rank. When you're ranking 200 people, I just have to figure out who belongs in the first 50, the next 50, etc. Exactly who's #35 and #36 doesn't really matter.

Also, I know where my list tends to "break" (i.e. where I get my last match from). I spend most of my time figuring ranks out in this range on the list.

I know! I get so psyched about interview invites... congratulations, you now have a 1 in 30 chance of becoming a resident at our program... yikes.

Yes, but each person who interviews with us interviews at about 10 programs and can only match at one, and most US allo grads match somewhere, so it's not a fair comparison (with the one for getting into med school, when in fact 9 of 10 people who apply don't get in)