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Rotations in US

Discussion in 'Australasia and Oceania' started by santa_claus, Apr 19, 2007.

  1. santa_claus

    santa_claus Junior Member
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    Hi there,
    I'm a Canadian student at UQ. I'm planning to do some of my rotations in US. Unfortunately, UQ doesn't have many contacts with US hospitals, so students, wishing to do their rotations there have to organize it on their own--which I'm trying to do. Please, if anyone knows of/did a rotation at a US hospital that is friendly to international students, post here! I'm particularly interested in NY area, but info about hospitals in other areas will also be greatly appreciated!

    ps to be even more specific, I'm interested in surgery and ob/gyn...so if you know of a place where I can get those rotations -- please share!
    thanks,
    Santa
     
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  3. JoeNamaMD

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    I am a US student at UQ medicine, its hard to find US rotations at the moment, you cannot rotate in the US without passing the Step 1 either.
     
  4. driedcaribou

    driedcaribou Senior Member
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    That's not true at all.

    Numerous Australian students who are Australian citizens went to the US during Southern hemisphere summer to do rotations in the US.

    Once you have picked a place to go, search all the hospital/medical school websites in that area and get every application form you can.

    It is a lot of hard work but if you really want to go to the US, you can make it happen.

    If you are not sure of what hospitals are in the New York area, start here:
    http://www.aamc.org/students/medstudents/electives/start.htm
     
  5. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    While having Step 1 completed probably helps you, it is by no means required. None of the programs I applied to (granted that was years ago) requested it, and I took both Steps 1 and 2 while I was in the US doing electives. I haven't heard from anyone else that passage of Step 1 is required although some individual programs may.

    The major stumbling block students had in the early days was getting their schools to offer medical mal which covered them in the US; Flinders had it by the time I rotated so it wasn't an issue.

    It is a lot of work to find programs, but there are hundreds of places in the US which take foreign clerks and you just have to be diligent about contacting places, getting them the information they need, etc.
     
  6. santa_claus

    santa_claus Junior Member
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    Thanks y'all. Will check out the website. Still, if anyone already did a rotation in US and can recommend a specific hospital, feel free to post.
    -santa
     
  7. JoeNamaMD

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    Flinders and Sydney have affiliations with some good US hospitals. My ex girlfriend is at Flinders and she rotated at Columbia and Yale. I doubt you could rotate for more than 6 months, US residency programs who expect some US clinical experience want at least a year of US rotations.

    There are some Australian students who have gotten into top US residency programs, I was looking on Google and a Sydney grad matched into ENT at U of Missouri. Most Australian grads match into residencies that are IMG friendly, I saw a Flinders graduate listed on the webpage of an FM residency but with him were a half a dozen Caribbean graduates. Its definitely tougher to get a good residency from any foreign school, Ireland, Australia, etc. Only Israeli graduates seem to have better matching capability.

    As far as US rotations you definitely have to be in good standing with the faculty to be able to rotate in the US. They only like to send their best to the States, its sort of political.
     
  8. Winged Scapula

    Winged Scapula Cougariffic!
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    That was not the experience that any of my friends and I had. Granted there are some schools which put up more barriers than others (ie, having Step 2 or your ECFMG certificate to even rotate there), but it would be a mistake to say that US residency programs "want at least a year of US rotations", IMHO.

    FMGs/IMGs are not as valued in the US residency matching system. Of course, there are exceptions, one of my classmates from Flinders did Rads, another Derm, and the rest of us did a variety of things from Gen Surg to IM, Psych, FP and Path. An applicant with their heart set on say PRS or Derm had better have a back up plan (as even US grads need for these most competitive specialties).

    While I have no direct experience to corroborate your statement, anecdotes tell me that it is true.
     
  9. driedcaribou

    driedcaribou Senior Member
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    I can tell you right now that the guy who matched into ENT did not do a year of rotations in the US. You do not

    You cannot rely on the affiliations the USyd has with hospitals in the US because there are not enough of them. Students are still left to their own to find placements. This is not a bad thing but it does make things difficult.
     
  10. JoeNamaMD

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    This year's residency match was BRUTAL for IMGs, I know some stellar students turned away in large numbers. For me I don't want to return to the US, the only place that I would live is California, and CA is the most anti-IMG state in America. To complete a residency there you need to be ECFMG accredited, it takes a whole year to do this after you graduate.

    As far as going back to America because there is more money, this is changing, the US Dolllar is in freefall. An Australian dollar now buys .83US, last year it was around .75. But go back to 2003 and it was buying .50US. I have never seen such a plunge in the value of the American Dollar but it is obvious that the US Dollar is seeing a major devaluation, it might not sound like much but the US Dollar's dominance is what drove the economy over the past 30+ years. What's the new challenger? The Euro, in only 5 years it makes up 30 percent of world currency reserves, it already dominates the international bond market. The Australian economy has been given a serious boost because of Asia, it has little industry, yet Oz has one of the best standards of living on planet Earth better than even the US and Canada according to the UN Human Development Index.

    Whether you go to Australia, the Caribbean, Ireland, Eastern Europe, etc. you will always be below US MD and DO's for residencies. People look down on DOs but they can match into highly competitive residencies that IMGs cannot.
     
  11. driedcaribou

    driedcaribou Senior Member
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    Mate, to have your ECFMG you just need Step 1 + Step 2 CK and CS and then your degree.


    http://www.ecfmg.org/2007ib/ibcert.html

    California is not just anti-IMG though - it is pretty anti out of state I thought.

    But considering that a USyd Graduate went to California for Gen Surg immediately after graduating.......

    Look, no offense but a lot of people rely on this forum for information to make very life altering decisions in the form of investing finances into their education.
    I've noticed many users make comments that are based on pure hearsay - I'm not saying this about your reply but am using this opportunity to comment on this about other users.

    The Australian economy has been going through an economic boom for the past 10 years or so. However, I don't try to make any predictions about the future. Things do not look as peachy when you look at what they are calling the 'tsunami' of medical students in a few years time.

    I only want people to make the best decisions for their careers whether they be Australian, Canadian, American, British etc.

    I think it would be most helpful to provide people with the information they need based on accurate information.
    For example, your comment about the DOs contradicts what is said in the main forums.

    I'm not saying I am always right but making a mistake about the ECFMG process is pretty harmful to people making career choices.
     
  12. JoeNamaMD

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    If you can get into a good US residency... do it, by all means. Even Australia takes US trained doctors these days to fill work shortages, residencies are shorter in the US. It is not easy to get into a competitive residency from an Australian medical school, some people have done it but most of us will wind up in Peds, IM, FM, OB, and Psych. I have yet to hear about someone getting a DERM residency, Urology is one that is nearly impossible to get into as a foreign grad. If someone got into General Surgery in California, big deal, General Surgery has become less competitive, even people from lower Caribbean schools can match into that. As far as IMGs who have a high success rate, I think Irish and Israeli grads perform the best, there is even a Trinity College grad in Neurosurgery at Brown. I was actually going to go to BGU but my ex-girlfriend at Flinders scared me out of it, she actually lived in Israel as a small child.

    If you really want US clinical rotations SGU in the Caribbean would be a better choice than Australia. Someone there even matched into Urology in a big name Manhattan Hospital, Lenox Hill on the Upper East Side, I know it is upscale because I lived there.

    DO from the standpoint of US students is a better choice than any offshore school, like I said DOs have no problems getting into residencies that often discriminate against IMGs. I know more than a few people who went this route, its also easier for DOs to get financial aid and scholarships.
     
  13. JoeNamaMD

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    Oh, I forgot to add that General Surgery and Neurology are also very much open to foreign medical graduates. Radiology, Opthalmology, Orthopedics, Urology, Dermatology, Emergency Medicine, and Radiation Oncology are the domain of US MD and DO graduates.
     
  14. MooseMallet

    MooseMallet Tastes like burning
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    I agree it's difficult to secure a "competitive" residency in the States, but it is possible from Australia. This year, we had one match to EM, at a good institution, and one (maybe, I might be mixing people up on this one) to radiology.

    To santa_claus: Sorry for going off topic briefly, but my only advice to you is to apply far and wide.

    It will be a pain, and slightly expensive, but it'll be worth it. Can't tell you much about surgery or Obs/Gyn in particular, but I had a great time during my electives in NY. Just be aware that many schools don't contact you until a month or two before your proposed start date.

    Good luck.
     
  15. JoeNamaMD

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    Those making the simple assumption that the US will be a bedrock of financial security forever are making a serious mistake. Yes, in 2007 the US IS THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY ON EARTH...but things are changing, America depends upon the US Dollar's status as a world reserve currency, and right now the Euro is quickly becoming the major world currency, it has only existed for five years and it already consists of 30 percent of world currency reserves. China has now stated that it wants to increase trade with the European Union and make Europe its biggest trading partner, this may not sound like much but to those who earn US dollars the news is earth shaking. You see China is the biggest holder of US Dollars, they hold over $1 Trillion US, China still buys US dollars and is the reason why the greenback has not collapsed, and now they want to "diversify", this is seriously going to impact America's economic future, I still think the US will still be fairly prosperous but it won't be able to compete with Asia, this century, the world economy is going to spin on an Asian axis. You should be able to make a living in America as a physician but don't count on your financial gain to be as good as what American doctors currently earn.

    Back to the topic at hand, going abroad for a medical education is a very big risk, and should not be undertaken without thinking it through, for me I will be content working as a GP in a regional Australian city.
     

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